I need help. And lots of it.
I've never owned a gun and gone shooting twice in my life. First time was 15 years ago and most recently was this last weekend.
In the past I never had any interest in owning a gun, because of the fact I was never really exposed to them so I was always a little uncomfortable. But I have to say, after this weekend I am really interested in owning one myself.
What I need help with is what is the best gun for my needs?
I live in a safe area so home defense, while an obvious benefit, really isn't a concern of mine. I do a LOT of hiking/backpacking so I would like something to protect me while /out/ but still want something that won't added too much unnecessary weight or be awkward to carry with a large pack on. But I also want something thst is just fun to shoot at the range or on car camping trips
Is there anything that really comes to mind that meets my criteria or would I be better off making multiple purchases. One for when I'm backpacking, and a different one for practice?
Glock 42
https://us.glock.com/products/model/g42
These chest rigs are great for /out/ shit. If you are worried about larger predators, a large caliber revolver or a 10mm glock is a pretty good choice. My buddy in alaska loves his rig. He just bought a super redhawk alaskan in .454 casull and it carried that behemoth comfortably and out of the way ehile fishing or backpacking.
Op don't listen to this guy >>29130499
But get a m9 which is better I will post link soon
>>29130511
Here's his alaskan bear protection.
>>29130529
http://www.beretta.com/en-us/m9/
>>29130499
I like the fact it's compact but it also says it's perfect for people with small hands which doesn't really apply to me. This one goes on the list until I can make it to a gun shop and see how it feels
>>29130511
I like the look of that rig, that is definitely helpful to know about. Hopefully broadens my options too.
Sorry, this is about to be a really stupid question, but this weekend I was shooting my friends glock .40, how does the 10mm compare
>>29130531
Well that definitely fills my criteria for protection in the woods. But if I go with this gun, would I be better getting a different gun if I just want to go and pop off some rounds for an afternoon?
>>29130594
Its shoots .45 colt as well. Shooting cassul can get a little uncomfortable on a full day at the range, but .45 colt is a dream to shoot. The weight of he revolver makes the recoil feel like nothing.
>>29130551
>>29130529
I've only been lurking here for a few days but it seems like there are two camps on this board. Those who love flocks and those who hate them. Is there anything truly, objectively better about this gun than the glock that was recommended? Or would I be better off renting both at a range and going off personal preference?
>>29130571
Never had my hands on a 10mm. I just know from being /out/ in alaska that it is a fairly popular choice for deep woods fun.
>>29130626
Well you ever heard about cops shoot himselfs in the leg with glocks? Well they don't have a manual safe on them that's why
>>29130669
That actually was kind of a concern of mine when we were shooting this weekend. My friend keeps telling me that as long as you were mindful of what you are doing its nothing to worry about. But even still, every time he gets in the car he has to adjust his holster and I'm convinced he is going to manage to shoot himself in the ass or something. Not only that, but even the most cautious people have accidents. So maybe glock isn't a good choice for a first firearm for me
>>29130705
Essentially all holsters won't allow you to pull the trigger with the gun holstered but your friend is correct that if you are mindful and follow all the safety rules you will never hurt anyone
If a manual safety is a concern consider the m&p line of handguns maybe the m&p shield because it's a lightweight single stack handgun 7+1 I think they run about 450 but don't quote me on that. My mother has one for her CC and she loves it and it shoots very nice
>>29130840
>>29130705
Forgot to add never ever rely on a safety you should be treating the gun as if it is both loaded and safety off at all times. Even guns with manual safeties can have negligent discharges (ND) because of user error.
>>29130840
Thanks I'll look into that
>>29130881
I definitely wouldn't rely on it as a fail safe, but I feel like, at least for my first gun, added safety measures can't hurt. Even though I haven't had much personal experience, I grew up with my dad owning a few revolvers and was very good about the whole
>every gun is loaded
>only draw your weapon if you're prepared to pull the trigger
>guns are tools not toys
Type of gun safety. Although, now that I'm older and not a complete moron, I feel like owning a gun just to have fun shooting in a safe environment is more than okay
>>29130990
And glocks are overrated
>>29131016
As someone who doesn't know shit can you elaborate on that a little?
>>29131058
I do know shit fags on /k/ YouTube always say shit like this
>>29131058
Go to a local gun store and talk with them. Unfortunately, /k/ is full of shitposting and so is this thread. Get a feel for what you like in person.
>>29131058
people rate glocks as the best hand gun ever.
but to be honest it is simply above average in every respect except reliability where its the gold standard.
think of glock like generic honda it will do everything youd reasonably expect a car to do and get you from point a to point b.
other guns might excell in other areas like ergonomics but a glock is good enough for anything
>>29131103
Yeah that's my next plan of action. I was just hoping to get a little information so I didn't go in 100% ignorant
>>29131327
>>29130451
what would you like to know op? i own a variety of handguns assuming that's what you're looking to purchase? I'm not very biased i love guns and shooting if it goes bang i generally want it.
Personally I like the CZs but do as >>29131103
says and go to several local gun stores and feel them yourself. Find one that fits your hand good. Then make a list of the guns you liked and go home and research them to see if there are known problems. Then look at the rounds they use and how much it will take to feed them. Let the store workers know it has to be reliable for the outdoors. Last thing you want is a gun that doesn't like dirt in a situation where you are covered in dirt running from a bear.
After that, it is just comparing price of the guns, which has good reviews and a good round for the price of the ammo and most importantly, which feels the best in your hand.
If you can find a place that will let you rent a few then you can feel how they shoot.
>>29131118
i mostly agree with this post, i just hate how my g17 points and think its fucking ugly, still like it though.
>>29131404
Like I said I do a lot of hiking/backpacking and want something that will keep me protected while /out/ but that isn't unnecessarily heavy/is hard to carry with a pack on but also want something that is fun to shoot all day at the range. Not sure if there is a one size fits all weapon for me, that's what I want to know
>>29131427
There are a few ranges that will let me rent so that ls what I'm going to try to do this weekend. What's hard for me right now, and I realize I just have to start doing research, is caliber size shit like that. When people start talking about 10mm or .45 those numbers mean nothing to me. Other than my assumption that the bigger the number the louder it goes bang/the bigger hole it will put in someone
>>29131508
>>29131539
first thing that came to mind for ME PERSONALLY for general protection and fun shooting would be some sort of 9mm auto pistol. Generally with JACKETED HALLOW POINTS 9mm, .40 sw, and 45 ACP preform pretty similar in terms of making shit dead. so for me obvious choice would be 9mm because higher capacity, super easy to control, and cheap to shoot. I do really like shooting 45acp though. 10mm id say is comparable to .357 magnum it has a lot more energy then a 9mm but at the trade off of capacity and more recoil. I wish i could give you a RIGHT answer but there really isn't one. you need to fuck around with a bunch of different guns and find whats comfortable for you.
>>29131608
Would a 9mm be effective at protecting me from a black bear or a cougar?
>>29131646
I cant give a right answer for that either, the biggest thing is shot placement, you could kill a bear with a .22 lr if you hit it in the right spot which isn't something I'm willing to go out and test. But realistically +p hallow points from a 9mm i see no reason it wouldn't get the job done fine.
>>29131646
Cougar definitely, black bear iffy
>>29131646
You would probably be better off trying to scare a black bear with the rapport than actually shooting the thing.
Unless I'm mixing my bears up, and black ones aren't the timid as fuck ones.
>>29131646
I'd take 10mm if i knew i was going to shoot a black bear, But i thought they were really scared of people they just want to eat trash and find food?
>>29131539
It all depends. Here is a picture of an ammo comparison. Look on the bottom level. I have not fired 10mm but I have fired a .45 auto. Personally I like the 9mm due to price. Sometimes the brand and type of ammo used is more important then the caliber. A ball round will penetrate better but a hollow point will do more damage as it passes though, at the expense of not penetrating as far. And not all hollow points are created equal. A shitty quality .45 round will not do as good as a high quality 9mm and vice versa. I suggest looking at ballistics charts for various rounds.
Just remember, this is your first gun. It is like the first time you have sex. It might be amazing or you might not enjoy it that much. If it is amazing, keep bangin it. If it is not good for you, drop that bitch back at the store and find another or just buy a side gun to bang. I ended up not liking my first rifle and sold it to help fund another purchase. My first handgun however is pure awesome and is something i plan on keeping the rest of my life.
>>29131745
>>29131746
They say with a brown bear your best chance of survival is,to play dead and that you probably threatened it somehow or got between a mom and her cub and thay once the threat is no longer there they tend to leave you alone. With black bears they say throw that "play dead" shit out the window and to fight for your life because once it starts attacking it usually won't stop until you're dead. But I still think they need to feel threatened because my tiny dog has scared off black bears before.
I'm just paranoid about critters because where I do a lot of backpacking black bears are so thick they're referred to as Cascade rats and my friends and I were stalked by a cougar and I don't fuck around with big cats
That's why it's pretty important to me that I have enough stopping power to protect myself
>>29131824
stopping power is a myth
>>29131786
This is definitely very helpful thank you. The sex analogy makes a lot of sense too. This chart makes it pretty clear that I have a LOT of research I need to do
>>29131786
>all_ammo_comparison
>0 35 caliber cartridges
FUCKING TRASH
>>29131835
Maybe I'm using the wrong term. I'm pretty ignorant on this whole subject matter, if that wasn't already obvious haha
>>29131843
you might want to consider a shotgun with slugs/buckshot if you're that scared of wildlife. Fuck the pistol comparisons and get something that will royally fuck a bear/cougar up.
>>29130451
Seems like everyone is suggesting handguns. You could always look into an Ar-7 or maybe a 10/22 takedown, or various other compact rifles. I personally take my ar-7 camping, hiking, kayaking, fishing, and just about everywhere else. Fun to plink in weekends, easy to get squirrels/duck on trips
>>29131871
I just don't know if carrying something that large for 20 miles in addition to a large pack is a realistic option
>>29131860
stopping power is an illusion people have that a bigger bullet is somehow more lethal. you have to hit vital organs to stop the threat. lungs, heart, brain, dead.
>>29131824
If a cougar is going to get you, you won't see it coming. But any 9mm would probably be enough, as they aren't like bears, literal walking balls of muscle, fat, and thick skin.
With bears, your best defense is pepper spray formulated for use exclusively on bears. It has the highest success rate of deterring attacks. Shooting a bear and killing it immediately with any handgun caliber is unlikely, at best.
I'm all in favor of people owning guns but I think they should have realistic expectations regarding their use.
>>29131884
I would love something collapsible for just plinking in the woods, but I think, considering the distance I usually cover with a large pack, that a handgun is my best bet
>>29131897
I think we had power in numbers and that's why it never fucked with us. We kept finding goat skeletons/carcasses all day and then thst night around the fire we could hear an animal circling us but never got closer than what sounded like 20-30 feet. I got out of the tent the next morning and 18 inches from the entrance to our tent was a VERY fresh pile of scat. I took a photo, did some research and it was definitely from a cat. Seriously one of the more frightening experiences.
I definitely agree with trusting the research and I always bring my bear mace, but I feel like a back up can never hurt. I always (half) jokingly tell my friends that they're fucking high if they think I'm using mace on the bear. Spraying everyone around me and running away is my game plan
>>29131897
I have lived in cougar country. They like hills and mountains. Their preferred method of attack is to be uphill and jump down on a target. Being uphill lets them jump further and hide better. If you are uphill from a cougar they are less likely to attack. So walk those ridge lines. Just be aware you might run into one face to face which, IMO, is better then a surprise from above.
This is all just hear-say though from people talking about deer hunting in cougar territory. They will hunt people if they are hungry.
>>29131947
Honestly dude, carry the bear spray for bears and the handgun for protection from human predators.
>>29131991
Yeah that's been a thought of mine too, but I was wondering if there was something that would be a realistic option incase bear spray fails
>>29132023
My dad in AK carries a Ruger Alaskan .454 Casull when he goes hunting. Like anon at the beginning of the thread, he has it in a chest rig where it can be drawn from a defensive posture, as a last resort. It's not for black bears, it's for grizzlies. And it's not really a fun plinking gun. That said, he's also told me that if he sees any bear stalking him when he's out, he would take it down with his rifle when it gets to 100 yards.
Vigilance being key take-away here.
>>29132101
>>29132023
I was going to say .44 mag but yeah .454 casull will make a bear dead. But .44 will be much more enjoyable to shoot. and i believe significantly cheaper because you can shoot .44 special out of it
>>29132101
Yeah I really liked that chest rig from earlier. I would definitely want to get something like that.
I had a feeling that the one that keeps me safe and the one thst is fun for plinking would ne very different weapons, but I am okay with that.
But now the question is do I start with what will keep me safe, or do I start with what is fun to shoot and use that as a chance to familiarize myself witg firearms and work on aim. I'm thinking the latter of the two.
In which case, what do you think would be a reasonably priced "fun" gun to start with
>>29132023
Bear spray doesn't fail. Bears have a sense of smell 100x more powerful then a bloodhound. What it does to a bears is like jamming a fist covered in habaneros up their nose and squeezing their brain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_spray#Effectiveness
By all means carry a gun too. I don't know if bear spray works on cats. It works as a good first response in bears though. If the bear still tries to attack you after getting sprayed in the face, it will be blind and loose its sense of smell. Easy to move and shoot.
>>29132137
I'd get a modern 9mm. Glock, Smith & Wesson M&P, XD, whatever. Then practice with it a lot. If you ever have to use a gun defensively, you're going to be stressed and scared. You need the gun to work on muscle memory. That will only come with practice.
If your innawoods handgun will be a revolver, then get a Ruger GP100 and use .38 special for practice. This gun will also take the hottest .357 loads like a champ, and those can be legit innawoods defense, although I'd call it bare minimum.
Practice first before you start betting your safety on it.
>>29132145
I meant like the can malfunctioning or me get freaked and either dumping my whole can before the bear is in range or just having bad luck and encountering multiple bears. Maybe the boyscout in me is coming out a little too much, I just want to be prepared for whatever situation I can be. Not sure on it working on cats either, but I'd be surprised if it didn't work
>>29132178
Good advice, I'll definitely keep this in mind
>>29130451
So, I'm going to tell you what the others are missing...
Only get a gun if you know what you're going to do with it, have the time to learn to use it, and a place to keep it safely when you're not using it.
You don't want to toss money at something you just 'want', you should figure out what matches your life.
You shouldn't get it unless you're going to use it. Its like a puppy, the more time you spend with it, the better off the 2 of you will be.
And you don't want some random to find it and blow their head-leg-neighbor-whatever off, so have a safe place to put it.
That said, if you want a gun, get a gun. Find a range that rents things and try them out. Decide if you want a long gun (they have breakdown ones for hiking), shotgun, or pistol. Shoot a bunch and have fun.
If you know someone that shoots, see if they'll take you shooting to see what the different ones are like.
