Is hazing necessary?
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http://shtfjournal.com/current-affairs/military-hazing-necessary/
>>29077507
when you've got a weak ass jaw like in your pic, yes
>>29077507
People feel more attached to things they suffered for, even if the suffering was obviously orchestrated for that purpose.
Hazing will get you busted down and kicked out in a heartbeat, want proof? look at that old ass fucking faggot and hes only a staff sgt
>>29077507
Hazing not only isn't necessary, it can also be pretty harmful. The entire point of things like boot camp is to weed out anyone who can't handle the rigors of combat, you don't need to go around having sock parties in order to "toughen up" the people that make it through that. Furthermore, the practice of hazing can alienate officers from the enlisted ranks, and there is almost nothing worse for unit cohesion than men not trusting their officers.
Hazing doesnt do shit.
Shitbags who manage to survive hazing will still be shitbags.
People who want to do their job and work hard will only get burnt out thr longer the hazing "new guy" period lasts.
And the worst issue is that the more unsuitable a person is to be a supervisor, the more likely they are to want to haze others. That's why people dir. That's why we hear about 8 recruits tying their dicks together.
Fucking with people with always good
Fucking with people in a way that is just plain malicious isn't.
>>29079843
>Fucking with people with always good
>Fucking with people <under x circumstances> isn't
I don't think this is logically consistent.
>>29079867
I think he's fucking with you
>>29079867
Pretty sure he meant things like taunting and basic pranks are okay.
Things like lighting them on fire and such I'd imagine aren't okay.
You're a faggot if when Hazed by any organization you accept it. The only thing I could think it would suit (besides people who are power hungry freaks) would be to test for people who stand up for themselves (which I suppose you wouldn't want in the army).
The old Marx joke fits even better here:
"I wouldn't want to me be part of any establishment that would accept me as a member."
>>29079894
>>29082497
Don't get me wrong, pranks and jokes are fine. Everyone accepts them in life unless insecure.
But some dude saying "I'll only let u join my club if me and my mates stick things up ur ass" is doing it for the powerful feeling (or gay) it gives him. Who would wanna be part of that club (other than people who like giving/taking it) anyway if they're all buggering weak people for entertainment
>>29077507
>necessary
No, but it's fun.
It basically didn't happen when I got out. And that was 2011. People started ratting and complaining.
Even basic ass shit like doing duty too often. Guys would have their wives or baby mamas call the CO and complain they weren't getting enough family time.
>TL;Dr
You new kids generation is a bunch of pussy ass whiners. The military is now a gym for gay people.
You're joining the military. Some degree of abuse is to be expected and required. You need to be hard for when you actually have to fight in a war.
That said, the shit Russians do to conscripts is too fucking far.
>>29082594
>the shit Russians do to conscripts is too fucking far
it all comes down from boringness
t. russian
>>29077997
This. I already went through boot camp and two deployments to Iraq, I don't need hazing bullshit just because I got transferred to a new unit.
>>29082896
I also have a purple heart, I don't think I need to prove I'm hard after surviving an IED.
I don't know, military bases are just like college campuses, if you hang out with the frat boy bro crowd, then your going to run into hazing shit.
I hung out with the older nerd guys and mostly kept myself busy repair electronics.
>>29077507
There was an aritcle on the BBC news site this week about how training staff aren't allowed to swear at recruits anymore. I'll see if I can find a link, brb
>>29077507
>shtfjournal
An august institution of journalism if ever there was one.
>>29083050
thats been in effect since when I went in 2011, I still got hit and kicked and hazed pretty hard, they'll still tell you your moms a whore and they're gunna try to fuck her and message her on facebook and beat up your father when they show up on graduation day they just dont curse in the somewhat rare occasions officers or staff NCO's are around which is..again pretty rare.
for example they told this ginger guy every single day that he was a loser failure and his father was an alcoholic and when they found out the guys father committed suicide they made fun of him and called his father a weak faggot whos rotting in hell for killing himself and they said the kids mom is probably a whore now that hes dead. tbhfam the verbal abuse was way worse than anything physical. was anyone else in 3rd battalion parris island? someone hold me
>>29077507
>be inna us army
>1st AD, 2nd INF
>sham shield awarded
>SSGT has platoon line up to punch my new rank into my chest
>idontthinksotim.jpg
>SSG tells me "you'll do it and like it"
>hit me, I fucking dare you
>WHAT DID YOU SAY TO ME PRIVATE ANON!!??
>its SPECIALIST anon now, new PL doesn't support hazing
>come at me bro
>spend all my free time in the leaning rest for the next few weeks
>shoulda let them punch me
>still though, earned the respect of my platoon by standing my ground
>TFW you but heads with your SSG and win
>>29085752
I wonder why your "randomly" selected for working parties and cleaning shitters so much
>>29086040
I really thought that would be the case, but after a month of riding my ass with extra PT, SSG finally let up, and started treating me pretty bro tier. after we got a new SSG, and I finally went up for NCO board, he was there to watch.
I had earned his respect in the end, but he made me pay for it.... mostly so he didn't look weak in front of the privates
>>29085379
>Marines
Of course.
Protip: If you have to insult the people you're trusting your life with in extreme ways to feel macho, you're a bitch on the inside.
>>29077507
Take a lap
>>29086078
did you ever kill anyone
>>29082594
>You need to be hard for when you actually have to fight in a war.
So, getting fucked up by your teammates, not being able to trust your officers and NCOs, breaking down unit cohesiveness and potentially injuring or killing your troops is good for morale? Makes a better soldier? Yeah, I don't think so Tim.
>>29085752
Similar story...
>2007
>Gone blue to green after finishing USAF contract and graduating college (left USAF in 2005)
>Wanted RASP, instead get option 4 contract, hoo-ah Airborne! At least I got shammer right off the back as prior-service.
>Graduate, time to get winged
Noep
>"SSG, I will not be subject to unnecessary abuse for no reason."
>What you say to me?
>Repeat myself verbatim
>"We know you're a fucking smurf, if you want to survive you got to be tough."
>"SSG, I picked up my BSM as an augmentee to 1BN, 16INF at Fallujah. Do you have a BSM?"
>SSG sputters, mutters about company grade article 15
>Nothing comes of it
>Become "that guy"
Two years later get promoted to SGT, end up in same unit as he was. He was busted back to SPC after he punched one kid hard enough that he broke a rib.
Hazing is bullshit, period.
>>29077507
It keeps the rank and file separated by barriers of real hatred
That's it, really
>>29087472
Badass
>>29077507
He was a terrible soldier because he had shit leadership
>>29079867
>>29079870
which is good
>>29077507
It depends. Some people need hazing if only to get their acts together. Beyond that, its entirely unnecessary and cruel.
>mfw reading about Russian hazing during the Chechen Wars
i don't get how they managed to make barracks life seem worse than actual combat, but they did it alright.
>>29089237
>hazing makes them get their act together
Wrong.
Shitbags gonna shitbag.
All hazing does is put the shitbags in chargen of hazing once they stay in long enough to be the senior guy.
You can make soldiers hard by simply giving them nightmare mode physical challenges in training. You don't need to literally punch them when an obstacle course or something like that can do it for you, and as a bonus, the soldiers hate the obstacle course instead of you.
>>29089237
Your referring to discipline when someone/everyone fucks up, you would be hard pressed to find anyone in any military that thinks correcting behavior is a bad thing. Although there certainty is a limit to the intensity that correction should be applied, when equipment, operations and lives are on the line getting someone to stop fucking up very quickly is essential.
Hazing is when you do dumb shit to others for no good reason and makes everyone hate you to a point where unit cohesion starts to fall apart. I`ve lead people to the point where they started to hate me (not in the military if that matters at all) but that was because it was a very specific task that needed to be done before all hell broke lose, not because I was a bored Russian conscript or the shitbag that wrote OP`s article.
>>29089327
Got any links?
>>29089765
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/11662657/one-soldiers-war-in-chechnya-download-free-ebook
Hazing doesn't actually accomplish anything.
>>29089789
TY anon
>>29089814
Its fun. And its fun because humans are dicks.
>>29089789
>>29089765 and >>29089821 here
Holy fuck, this is utterly horrific.
>>29089789
Holy shit, this is like Napoleonic war levels of barbarity and backwardness
>Actually serving soldiers fucking gruel, and not a lot of it either
>everyones feet torn to bits from shitty boots and no medical care
>Brutal daily beatings, extortion, criminality
Can hardly believe this is the feared Russian army.
Mmm yes because I'd really give it my all and risk my life to drag guys who held me to a bed and teabagged me. It's just pointless bullying with a think veneer of being useful.
>>29077507
It's essentially just modern day natural selection, so yes.
>>29077507
Civvies love the idea of "weeding out the weak", but really, hazing is just bullying people. People who already have lots of burdens on their shoulders. Nobody needs even more nightmares to keep them up at night.
Furthermore, it's a criminal offense.
>>29082594
>Some degree of abuse is to be expected and required.
>shouting at recruits
>making people run laps
Yes.
>sock parties
>beating recruits
No. That's going to produce broken men. Breaking and rebuilding people is far less effective than simply building people. That's why nobody does it any more. It's morally reprehensible, blah blah blah, but the real reason is because it just doesn't work.
>>29077507
In the military? Technically yes.
hazing makes you subordinate, insecure, and more willing to obey authority.
if they wanted you to be more than a drone in an ant colony, they would make you a general.
>>29090477
Then there's the forced prostitution and rape that's stil endemic in the Russian army
>>29090859
>hazing makes you insubordinate, distrusting, and more willing to abandon authority to their death, or be the cause of said death.
>>29077507
Define hazing. Getting your blood stripes or being "pinned on" generally shouldn't qualify.
>>29077507
Not necessarily.
>>29077507
Yes
>be me
>2011
>have been working for 5 years in the army
>getting promoted for sergeant
>have done nearly all of the available courses
>army has spend an insane amount of money on me
>first day of introduction in Sergeant school
>gets hazed, called weak, called a faggot, called a retard, my family is ashamed of me, etc etc.
>Bite my teeth through it
>Finish course
>Get diploma
>Quit
>Army goes apeshit
>Fuck you, I don`t work for assholes
>5 years later
>Been working as a teamleader for a medical firm
>Make money I never dreamt about
"Ur armu experiunse is best Anon, very best"
>See Army complaining about failing recruitment
>See Army in logistical and leadership problems because of lack of competent leaders
>See this thread
>Laugh out loud, drink my coffee.
Life is good.
>>29087147
>>29090845
Shared suffering brings soldiers together.
>>29092520
>Sergeant school
>Not WLC
>Quit
>Not ETS'd
I don't believe you.
>>29092664
Shared suffering, yes. Pointless suffering inflicted by your comrades and leaders? No.
>>29092520
see
>>29092701
faggot
>>29091856
It SHOULDNT but CPL Fedorastein or BM3 Cringe get SUPER into the "tradition" when it comes to inflicting pain on others.
This leads to people getting their wings or fish tacked on and puncturing a lung then dying. And that leads to 0500 GMTs.
The people who actively want to haze others are why we cant have traditions.
If someone fucks up and you take them out back and smoke the shit out of them for a half an hour, they're probably never going to do it again.
If you slap them on the wrist and say "if you do it again it's going on paper" it means literally nothing to them.
It's this politically correct mindset we have that's making everyone weak.
>>29093116
And if it stops there we would have no problems.
Unfortunately the military sees fit to put incompetent "leaders" and supervisors incharge that take it FAR past that point and start getting people hurt.
>>29093164
Exactly, it's a means to an end. They fuck up, you inflict the punishment, usually pushups until their arms feel like falling off. And then that's it. He paid the price and learned the lesson.
If someone is doing it sadistically then that needs to be addressed and taken care of, that's different.
I'm all for physical training as correction.
>>29093084
Yeah, it really does suck. Of course, people in the military are young and do dumb shit. Hell me and my buddy used to play "punch in the face" with each other when we'd drink. Then I decided to play it with one of our mutual friends. Turned out he was a Golden Gloves champion or something.
Anyways, the point is people do dumb shit, but that should be handled separately from a little light hearted tradition.
>>29093116
That's poor teaching. If someone fucks up, it's usually a good idea to show them why what they did was a fuck up (unless they already should know better). Otherwise the only thing you have instilled in a subordinate is fear, a poor motivator. And one that can lead to them being afraid to come to you until it's too late.
>>29093215
Obviously that's part of it. You teach them and explain to them what was wrong.
But there has to be something in it to teach the lesson and drive it home to never make them want to do it again. Like knowing that if they do it again they're going to do pt and be really sore
>>29077507
Hazing is people exploiting their power. That's it.
>>29093241
I preferred essays and other time wasters, partially because I wasn't a PT stud or anything. Also because it was my hope that being smarter and more knowledgeable about their job would make them better Marines and have an easier time transitioning to civilian life when they got out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77uF7ukKC2w
do this make you a better warrior?
>guy in OP is old as dirt
>with 5 years of retirement age
>still a fucking E-6
Are enlistedfags proud when they fail that hard?
>>29093084
like this shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y-RSdUgbVk
>>29089789
jesus, its a wonder they had any functioning combat units at all
>>29077507
>trust me with you life after I beat the shit out of you
Yeah, i can totally see how that builds camaraderie
>>29094054
I've never seen something so dumb.
>does it make you a coward
I'd say telling them to fuck off and not doing it is about equal to doing it.
>>29094054
>those comments
We need to end the civilian hero worship of every 4 and out shitbag who managed to pass MEPS.
Not only do these jack wagons believe there is nothing wrong, they feel no need to have to explain themselves for willingly inflicting pain on their "brothers" needlessly.
>>29094047
Of course they are. They're MUREENZ! Who the fuck wants to be an officer? Or even a Gunny? Too much work overtaxes the brain, instead you get to sit in that cushy gap between real responsibility and thought and being the shitbag that Staff Sergeant pisses on.
But yes, really, "retirement" should require some sort of minimal grade and time in grade instead of just time in service. No goddamn way an E-6 should be eligible for a retirement pension. You ain't good enough for that second rocker, you ain't shit.
>>29085379
Bro, I was 3rd battalion, Lima co. And yea, some of the shit the drill instructors said was pretty fucked up lol.
>>29095323
I remember blood pins but goddamn that vid was brutal. One smack to poke ya and that was it.
>>29094054
Damn that looks harsh. I thought bloodwings was just having guys punch them with the frogs off, not all that shit.
What's up with all them saying you would never understand? There's other military branches besides marines.
C'mon guys. I'm in the Air Force and even we run a fucking gauntlet when you put on my stripes. Your arms are swollen for weeks. Man up.
The only thing that pisses me off is the half ass punches the females get. I punch so hard that if I don't land it right, it's a dislocated shoulder.
>>29094025
yes
Obviously you're still gonna have shitbags if you do haze people but you'll have less. Now all we can do is tell people what to do with nothing backing it up. I know too many people who think Oh if I don't look squared away I'm gonna get paperwork? Fuck if I care I'm getting out.
But if you'd be able to haze people the thought process would be more along the lines of "Oh fuck I'm gonna get decked if I don't do my job right." Builds character if not excessive.
>>29100260
>you'll have less
Wrong.
The shitbags will always be shitbags. Hazing makes welk intentioned go getter nubs turn into 4 and out just do enough to not get yelled at.
YOU are the reason there is no leadership in the military. Just people able to use others to cover their asses by virtue of joining sooner.
>>29097982
>airforce bragging about how hard he hits women
Do you want to get 5 am training?
Because that's how you get 5 am training.
>>29097982
Look at this fag
>>29077507
He's getting blood-pinned, this isn't hazing at all.
>>29079870
