guys, tell me again why .40 sucks so bad. i forgot.
>>28684215
Shitty compromise meme caliber
Snappier than 9mm without being much more powerful or lethal, and offering reduced capacity.
truth is people can't handle the truth, true words yo
people suck at shooting so they want to shoot 9mm, however they forget that besides shot placement penetration is the 2nd most important thing. .40 can out penetrate 9mm by a mile and i fucked your mom
>>28684278
>by a mile
no.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#40SW
>>28684321
nigger don't think about ballistic tests as an end all. you forget that there is fucking bone in a body not jelly and shit. .40 stronk 9mm weak shit yo
>>28684215
It was created as a solution to a problem that didn't exist and adds an unnecessary standard in caliber. Instead of 9mm and 45 being researched and supported in the aftermarket, a large portion of it goes to 40. Every barrel and bullet made in 40 is one that should have been 9 or 45. Unfortunately, due to its adoption by the FBI and many police forces (most of whom have realized the error of their ways) .40 has developed a following that won't go away for a while. The faster it fades away the better.
>>28684215
It was supposed to replicate a reduced load 10mm and fit in a 9mm frame. This was in the 1990's. In the past 25 years metallurgy has advanced making the differences between 9mm, .40, and .45 are negligible, while emphasizing that most people have shit aim so being able to shoot more is better than hitting slightly harder when you do hit.
>>28684215
It doesn't
>inb4 almost no difference in 9mm,.40 & .45
It's because all the girl wristed lanklets here cant make accurate follow up shots with anything bigger than 9mm so everything else must suck and they stick to their memes
>muh stopping power is just a meme
.40 S&W exists because of racism and marketing.
.40 S&W used to be a lot hotter and there was a case for it. Just the same, it got popular because Glock and other manufacturers convinced cop shops that .40 S&W was the next level stopping powah so they could buy back the used then hi-cap magazines and flip them to the public for a huge profit during the AWB.
Today it's down-loaded for LEOs who can't handle the extra recoil. 9mm is better than it ever was. It's size-efficient and over-pressure loads go toe-to-toe with mainstream .40 S&W and a couple of other popular service pistol cartridges. And you get as many as five extra fucking bullets per mag FFS.
>>28684333
to be fair, most departments are ditching .40 because of excess gun wear not ballistics.
>>28684410
>implying I thought they were ditching because of ballistics
>implying that increased wear isn't just as bad
That's still a mark against .40
>>28684215
Its a high pressure cartridge and is therefore shit. If i wanted a high pressure cartridge and didn't care about more cost I would get a .357SIG
if you cant do what you need to do with 9mm or 45ACP then what you need to do is use a rifle.
for self defense literally any gun will work better than no gun.
Sheeeit they used .25ACP and .32ACP for a while with decent effect. Granted people were fit back then whereas these days you need 6-12 inches of penetration just to get past the layer of fat and reach vitals of our modern day morbidly obese Americans but still. 9mm and 45ACP are fine.
>>28684332
You're a drooling dolt. The 12-18" penetration is correlated to lethal penetration in actual humans.
>>28684215
In that gun .40 shoots great, and is very easy and comfortable to shoot.
>>28684410
>>28685745
Not a problem if your gun is built for .40
Easy; snapper than most common rounds and results in a lot more wear/tear of your sidearm. High pressure rounds like the .40 and 357 SIG aren't bad they just aren't as good in terms of overall service usage and less people can pick one up/train with it.
Before the .40 fag flips out I carry a 9 and a 45; I have carried a 357 SIG but it's nothing to brag about.
Real answer: Any round that will get the job done is a good round; and whatever round you're more accurate with is the best choice. Nigger.
>>28685965
If the bullet doesn't hit bone or a hard barrier before hand.
>>28684333
Isn't the FBI switching to 9mm?
People will come to this thread and try to explain why .40 S&W is a compromise, and especially why it's a bad compromise, but they don't have a compelling argument unless they also admit that every caliber ever is a compromise and that even 9mm has plenty of drawbacks.
>>28685984
>not a problem if your gun is built for the worst common handgun cartridge
FTFY
There is nothing wrong with a strong gun but you get so little from 40 it's not worth it
>>28686003
>guys i saw some guy shoot a pig's head on youtube listen to me
>>28686033
Duh. I hope so. I know this is /k/ where arm chair commandos meet and bitch about spending daddy's money on the right gun and all; but every round has a draw back.
>>28686030
Yes, that's my point. They figured out that 40 was something that never should have been created
>>28685913
Both 9mm and 40 sw both have a sammi specification 35000 psi.
>>28684215
It's more expensive to shoot than 9mm.
It doesn't suppress as well, if you own a suppressor.
For those negatives, it only offers very marginal gains in performance.
Nothing actually "wrong" with it but 9mm probably is a smarter choice.
>>28685234
>>28684278
>>28684388
Buyer's remorse general?
>>28684215
Because it's not 10mm
>>28684406
You just convinced me to get a P226.
>>28685985
why you sound like a salty ass bitch?
>>28686056
>More barrier penetration.
>Better performance on bone
>More reliable expansion across different barrels lengths.
>Don't need to be as choosey with ammo loadings.
>Great at killing medium sized animals.
>>28686003
No, it includes that. You're not nearly as smart as you think you are.
>>28686204
>Don't need to be as choosey with ammo loadings.
Wat? Never heard this
>More reliable expansion across different barrels lengths.
>not using long barrels all the time
I'll give you the barrier thing and bone
>>28686218
No it doesn't
>>28685985
yup and total cost to shoot does matter for Civies and Police. If you cannot afford range time for whatever reason when the time comes to shoot someone for real you are gonna be screwed. I talked to cop who had been in a actual shoot out here in Florida. Extended exchange of fire and the cops shot less and still clobbered the baddies... because they hit the target with their 9mm and the perps with .40s', .45s and a .357 could not. He told me vividly of watching rounds hit around him while he double tapped a perp from 15-20 yards. And he dd not consider himself a good shot. He was the guy on the scene.
>>28686281
Care to find some peer reviewed studies to back that up? Because I have plenty backing up my viewpoint.
>>28686271
>Wat? Never heard this
When this argument comes up 9mm fags like to ignore the big read asterisk **with quality defense ammo** There are only a handful that meet this requirement, and some of them struggle in longer or shorter barrels.
If you can get HST then you are fine with 9mm, but lots of places sell hydra shocks and 115gr gold dots, which are shit.
>More reliable expansion across different barrels lengths.
>not using long barrels all the time
Some people like to carry Shields, G43s/26s, and USP compacts. If you use a barrel thats less than 4" you need to be choosey when using 9mm, not so much with .40
>>28686326
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CQ7ThU3Epk
Ignore those idiot Canadians and their findings that bone simulant and 4LD did not produce substantially dissimilar results back in the 1990s, or that Fackler wannabe. Those guys were using the metric system.
>>28686326
>Care to find some peer reviewed studies to back that up? Because I have plenty backing up my viewpoint.
>Because I have plenty backing up my viewpoint.
>plenty
>my viewpoint.
Then postem fagot
>>28686297
And the caliber the baddies had did not matter, they just COULD NOT HIT JACK! Getting practice is more important than getting a gun/caliber with marginal improvements which you cannot take advantage of.
>>28686338
>If you can get HST then you are fine with 9mm, but lots of places sell hydra shocks and 115gr gold dots, which are shit.
>which are shit
>shit
So are 155gr Gold Dots, 155gr HSTs, 135gr LR Hydrashoks, 180gr Hydrashoks... Man, that .40S&W stuff must be dogshit.
Hey look, I can make bad bullet choice decisions and blame it on caliber as well!
>>28686192
Because of the capacity argument?
CZ 75 SP01 comes with 2 18 rounders, breh.
>>28686194
I just hate caliber debates and fat faggots who haven't even put in enough range time trying to tell those who want to know what is good or bad. That maybe why my little cuck. Now, back to sucking that guy's cock to afford your next SKS.
>>28686338
>>28686406
i told a guy at work that i picked up a box of old 135gr hydra shocks for my .40 USP. he was like bro, that is a win. the lighter bullets make an already fast round very fast. velocity is king. this guy knows his shit too.
>>28686517
>this guy knows his shit too.
kek
>>28686366
Google you drooling hick. Spam filter is eating all my links, but the top result for "ballistic gel bones" is in simple enough terms for your sister fucking, trailer dwelling self to understand.
>>28686459
welcome back to the salty spoon, sir. would you like your usual?
>>28686738
How tough are ya?
>>28686406
Light for caliber bullets suck universally, but its easy to fine 165gr and 180gr .40. Meanwhile finding 147gr 9mm is near impossible, and you might be able to find 124gr, but most of what you see in stores is still 115 gr.
>>28686656
Likely excuse, face it you have no argument and you are talking out of your ass.
>>28684215
If you end up not liking the .40 in the USP you can convert it to a .357 sig
misinformation, the thread
>>28684321
So .40 still outperforms with most penetration per expansion and velocity.
Highest kinetic energy delivery with greatest average expansion.
.45 is a hard trade off cause penetration/expansion is shit for muzzle velocity and muzzle velocity is shit for the other two.
>>28684215
>muh snappiness
try not being a pussy
>>28686440
Capacity above 10 rounds is negligible. Train and you can change mags in under a second.
>>28688089
BTW I'm keeping in mind bullet mass as well
>>28684234
limp-wristed manlet
>>28686892
115gr 9mm is fine if you get +p or +p+, except you'll almost always have to order it online.
light loads can be ok, buffalo bore makes a 9mm barnes lead free 95gr that gets 1550 fps.
>>28688331
Speed is pointless if the projectile doesn't have enough weight to carry momentum, thats why light for caliber is stupid as fuck.
It's just kinda superfluous imo. 9mm and 45 already existed, and they all will kill people.
I have the truly unpopular opinion here: shoot whatever you like best and will train with that is reliable and concealable, and that is the best caliber in your own personal idiom.
The question is why would you consider this compromise round to begin with over 9mm or 45
This cartridge was created because the FBI director of the time refused to admit that not switching to 9mm over 10mm was a mistake and commissioned a company to make a new round that was essentially identical to 9mm in tests.
Your personal feelings of 9mm, 40, and 10mm aside, this round is currently being phased out in the military/leo and civilian market, because it shouldn't have been created to begin with.
.40 will become a very niche round over our lifetime
>>28686738
Salty Spitoon*
In modern loadings good 9mm ammunition isn't that different from 40. However the 40 does have a few things going for it. It's become far more plentiful in the past so it's not much more than a 9 to fuel. You can often get much better deals on 40 guns expecially police trade ins. Atm so many 226 and 229 trade ins in 40 for 4-500$ in excellent condition. Also it's relatively scare proof. When the big gun scares have happened recently expecially with the Obama elections... 9mm...22lr... even 45 was hoarded and shelves were all but empty of them but the .40 was in decent supply. And yes the 40 is a bit more of a stout cartridge. It's a little bigger than the 9 and designed for higher velocities from the onset so yes it has more recoil and a bit of a snappy profile but in a good gun it's not an issue unless your extremely recoil sensative or firing a small light subcompact 40. Yes you sacrifice a few rounds when compared to 9mm but if the difference between say 13 rounds compared to 15 etc doesn't really bother you then you can get past the tropes and look at the positives. Expecially if you want a good gun on a budget the 40 may be worth looking into.
The market is flooded with ex-LEO .40's on the cheap. So one of the reasons LEO's are moving away from .40 is because of excessive wear but here, buy a used LEO .40 Anon's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsxdk1V8i-M
>>28688089
It doesn't add enough in performance over 9mm to justify the increase in recoil and decrease in capacity. There is an FBI after action report that shows 40 JHP failed to penetrate more than 1 inch into a suspect with a down jacket on. Just go high velocity 9mm like critical duty. 40 is a meme. Not garbage, but not worth carrying either.
>>28686906
bfy (dot) tw/3vzU
