I hear that the Swedish kept using pike-men (successfully) well into the 1700s, long after the other European powers abandoned it.
Its makes me wonder, at what point did the spear/pole-arm/pike become outdated beyond viability on the battlefield. Could they have kept using it like the Swedish longer than they did?
For example, I heard the British armed some of the Spanish with pikes when they were fighting Napoleon, with success. And the confederates were planning on arming soldier with pikes in the American civil war.
>rifle with bayonet is a spear.
Shut up, those don't count.
*picture is British home guardsmen in WW2, equipped with "Croft's pikes"
Or would this be better as a /his/ thread?
>>28315996
Maybe it could've been viable in WW1 if they used a really long pike that reached from one trench to the other.
>>28315996
>Shut up, those don't count.
But they do.
That is exactly what they are for - to bridge the gap between spear and firearm.
Honestly OP, why did you make this thread? What was going through your mind while you were typing it up?
>>28315996
>at what point did the spear/pole-arm/pike become outdated beyond viability on the battlefield.
Well not much changed on the firearms side until breech loading rifles came commonplace. Before that most guns had shit range and accuracy because the muskets where all smoothbore.
There where rifled muzzle loaders but they where mostly used by hunters because their slower fire rate. Yes, the yanks used rifles during the war of independence and their sharpshooters where capable of killing people at pretty long range.
>Could they have kept using it like the Swedish longer than they did?
If you a very disciplined force that can maintain unit cohesion and close the distance after taking multiple volleys of musket fire i imagine you i imagine you will have the upper hand over bayonets when the melee ensues.
TL:DR
1850-1880, breech loading and rifling happens on a large scale and the tactics change for real.
Technically, pikes are still in service. The Swiss Guard, the Swiss soldiers that guard the pope, still carry them. I doubt they've actually used them in combat any time recently, but the fact is that they're still issued
Papal Swiss Guard on duty. Not even their ceremonial uniform
>>28317561
>but the fact is that they're still issued
yeah, just like swords are still issued as part of certain dress uniforms of modern militaries. Totally practical and useful. Yep.
>>28317580
The difference is that they carry them when actually on guard duty. Never said they're particularly useful, but that's what they have, openly at least. They carry a pistol somewhere in that funny outfit
>>28317580
Requesting screencap of the brit Royal Marine that stabbed a mugger with his dress sword while coming home from some official function.
Contained the phrase "properly impaled" in it.
>>28317001
Most armies were already trying to replace their pikes in the 1600's, with the number of musketeers increasing and pikemen decreasing through the years. The invention of the bayonet and a simplified flintlock (older ones were expensive and complex) helped accelerate this process, but it was still costly.
Think of it as like the transition towards jet aircraft during the 50's.
1798 rebellion in ireland was basically a pike rebellion. It failed, for numerous reasons, but the pike is still a potent symbol of rebellion here
>>28315996
I figure that as long as your opponent uses cavalry, you will always have use for pikes.
Sure at some point the bayonet took that role.
>>28317561
Technically, MP40s are still in service too, then.
Someone post some pictures of their armory, it's sexy as all fuck. Rows of spears, halberds, old muzzleloaders, bolt actions, carbines, submachine guns, assault rifles. Even some plate armor.
>>28317763
And what does that has to do with anything? The question was how long the pikes could have been viable. Not how long they where used.
Gustav II Adolf of Sweden used pikes in a time where they where considered outdated and he was extremely successful.
But mixed arms has always been the key to a effective force and it was't difference back then. The reason it worked is because the musketeers and pikemen supported each other.
>>28317577
gay as fuck looking
>>28319001
If I'm not mistaken it comes from the tradition of their mercenary days when they would take cloth from slain enemies to make a ragtag uniform.
