/PSG/
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Hello faggots,
I've noticed an interest in precision rifles and such as of late, and thought maybe we could have a thread discussing the finer points of precision shooting instead of circle jerking over remington 700s and scoped nuggets. Perhaps we could discuss things like What techniques you guys use to shoot accurately and the fundamentals of proper marksmanship. In other words, precision shooting general
Sitting down on your dragon dildo at at 20 degree angle improves your posture OP.
It's a lot of fun. Ringing steel @300 yards. I have a Savage Axis in .223 and I enjoy shooting it more than my AR.
It's a mental challenge to make the gun go off as a surprise, while holding right on target. The lead sled style rests are nice to sight it, but get boring to shoot regularly with them. I'm trying to get better shooting laying prone
>>28275546
Good to know. I'm running a medium sized duke atm. I want to get my groups down and hone my skills with it before I drop the cash to upgrade to the large.
What is a duke?
Hey all. posted a few nights ago about suggestions for a good target rifle in 308 under 1k dollars. That Guy had some good info and the archived PSG stuff was great.
Still not sold on what plaform to start with, though I'm mighty tempted by that Mossberg MVP LR. It doesn't have any aftermarket though...
Keep the /PSG/ going and I'll be lurking.
>>28275789
https://bad-dragon.com/products/duke
>>28275908
I know pathsofglory likes his mossberg, but I'd strongly recommend a savage fcp or Howa 1500 over it
I guess this kind of fits here
What's a ballpark on the accuracy of a PTR/can much be done to increase it?
Looking to get one and use it for deer but my current rifle is a .243 that's apparently 0.75-1 MOA, so I'd rather not downgrade too much
>>28275908
For under 1k I'd look at these 2 models:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=532374877
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=532509332
For under 1100 I'd look at these 3 models:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411540287/REM+700+SS+308+24+5R+MILSPEC
http://www.eurooptic.com/tikka-t3-ctr-stainless-308-win-11in-twist-20in-bbl-jrtc316s.aspx
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=532508068
>>28276532
I didn't have good luck with my ptr91 when I owned it. Had fte with wolf and pre-zqi mke ammo. I also couldn't get my scope to zero on their welded on rail. Others have had good expereinces, but idk if ptrs would be considered 1 moa guns.
r8 my PTR91 dmr setup im building
>Heavy Buffer - $60 - http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Enhanced-Heavy-Buffer-G3-91-PTR-197p16482.htm
>Heavy Buttpad - $40 - http://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK21-RUBBER-BUTTPAD-25p1863.htm
>Cheek Piece - $45 - http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-Cetme-Cheek-Piece-For-Scope-197p1925.htm
>PSG1 trigger shoe - $30 - http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-German-PSG-1-MSG90-Trigger-Shoe-Complete-37p532.htm
>HK Bipod - $80 - http://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK-BIPOD-2p1.htm
>Bill Springfield Trigger Job - $65 - http://www.triggerwork.net/hk9xrifles.html
>Metal Lower - $73 - http://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK91-G3-SEMI-AUTO-STEEL-CLIPPED-PINNED-LOWER-PARKERIZED-FOR-CLONES-40p3007.htm?signup=yes
>Black Pistolgrip - $5 - http://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK91-G3-BLACK-PISTOL-GRIP-USED-HK-25p2909.htm
>Grip Screw - $2 - http://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK-GRIP-SCREW-AND-WASHER-25p1944.htm
>Vortex Diamondback 3-12x42 - $350 - https://www.primaryarms.com/Vortex_Diamondback_HP_3_12X42_Dead_Hold_BDC_Reticl_p/dbk-10015.htm
>Primary arms 1" medium rings - $40 (when purchased with scope) - https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_1_Inch_Tactical_Rings_Medium_Height_p/patr1mp.htm
>Vortex FSC91 - $100 - http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/PWS-FSC-HK-Threaded-Barrel-Compensator-p837.htm
>PTR91 A3R - $989 - http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/ptr-91-a3r-308-rifle-detail.html?Itemid=0
>>28276575
Thanks for the recommendations. The short list was a howa 1500 heavy barrel (615 from buds), a savage 10fcp-xx (around 670 on buds, 20 inch heavy barrel), and the mossberg mvp er (around 770). I love the tikka but I'm seeing concerning reports about the larger calibers and aluminum recoil lugs.
I have no reason to avoid Remington...but I do.
I'll check out your links when I'm back off my phone
>>28276916
Do the howa
>>28275908
Get a Poorfag TRG.
Tikka M595 Master Sporter Master Race
>>28276916
Concerning the tikka, I'd be looking at these options for the rifles.
https://tikkaperformance.com/tikka-parts/tikka-t3/tikka-t3-accessories/tikka-steel-lug
https://tikkaperformance.com/tikka-parts/tikka-t3/tikka-t3-accessories/tikka-t3-bolt-shroud
I prefer remington for the aftermarket parts. On my 700 police model, it shoots as well as I'd expect for being a factory rifle. I'll eventually rebarrel it and have it worked over, but I still have a few hundred rounds until the headspace is unsafe on the rifle
>>28276649
Should work but I will never understand why people go through the trouble of making a precision PTR91
>>28279221
The design is accurate by nature
and how many HK 91s are really out there for a grand
>>28277295
I wish they still made those.
Anyone else planning on going shooting Christmas afternoon with their family? If the weather ia decent me my brothers and my gf are gonna head on down the gravel pit for a bit of fun.
Have a tikka t3 22". Building an AeroPrecision M5/AR10 w/ a 16" .308 (Ballistics Advantage barrel, sub moa guarantee) should be done next week.. I might do another upper in 6.5CM 24", or a 7mm rem mag tikka. Not sure. Only high mag optic is a PA4-14; next down the road is a pst 5-25x50 ebr2c.
>>28281690
>Ballistics Advantage barrel, sub moa guarantee
Is that who makes Aero Precision's Barrels or are you buying that separate?
>>28276649
Get an actual Hensoldt.
how much do steel targets cost and do you guys have any of your own?
whats the best optic for starting out precision shooting? budget is up to $2k but id prefer to spend less
do you guys do break-in procedures? if so what do you do?
>>28282323
The magnification on those is rather low and they require claw mounts. As classic as it would be I have to pass.
>>28282343
Why not a claw mount then? They're cooler than the rails
>>28282337
also is a 1/2 MOA guarantee acceptable for a rifle?
>>28276649
>PSG-1 Trigger Shoe
>Please note: Does NOT fit a standard HK 90 series trigger without modification.
If you're going all out like this get a fucking bull barrel model at least.
>>28282337
I get 8" ar500 steel plates rated for rifles for about $25 each. I hang them with shepherd hook planter hangers from home depot.
The best starter optic is the SWFA SS or maybe the Primary Arms 4-14x
With a $2k budget though you can get high tier glass to start with. I really like the US Optics ST-10
Break-in procedures have never mattered to me, but I have been taught to fire a round, clean the bore, fire a round, clean the bore, about 15 times.
whats the best length/contour/twist for a .308?
>>28281690
>AR10
>sub moa guarantee
Wouldn't hold my breath.
>>28282404
depends on what you want to do with it..
length - is it tactical, hunting, bench rest? if it's tactical you probably don't need anything over 20 inches. If you plan to go out much past 800 yards, which you probably don't,.. you will want the extra barrel length for increased velocity.
controur... depends on what you're using it for... hunting? you want a thinner lighter barrel... if you're only punching holes in paper... you want a barrel with more meat on it...
twist... 1:10-1:12 is fine... but if you are going to shoot heavy bullets... faster is better... ie 1:10
>>28282487
its not tactical, just working on my distance shooting for a hobby. my goal is to go up to 1km.
im choosing .308 because the ammo is cheap and while it is not the best round it is by no mean bad.
i was looking at a 24 inch barrel at 1:12
getting a krieger barrel and i dont know shit about the contour. i would prefer a heavier barrel though.
>>28282487
>>28282530
i was thinking of getting the straight contour but thought i'd ask the peanut gallery
>>28277295
pls link to stock
>>28282343
No, there are many models with rather large magnification, the difference being that the optics are actually good. Claw mounts are not required either per se, you can go to a gunsmith and modify it.
What im trying to get across is that you wont get the results you're looking for when you spend thousands on your rifle and nothing on your scope, which is common with people new to long range shooting. I bought a used, rather shitty rifle but bought a really good zeiss scope. Many years later, ive bought a much better rifle, though i still use my scope rather often, and its still very good.
>>28282620
It's a stock stock. Tikka master sporter. Don't think they make them anymore (not imported to canada according to my old dealer price list)
T3 sporter is close, but laminate vs walnut
>>28282563
If your doing prs a straight contour will fuck with your timing. If your doing belly or bench shooting it will help with your stringing.
Depends what you want to do with it.
>>28282337
Break In was a myth. The guy who came up with the idea sold barrels for a living. Add 2 and 2.
I wanna buy some 4 inch steels for 22lr at 100+ but in canuckistan things like that are waaaaaay to expensive
>>28281690
You'll have a hard time finding a 5-25 pst. Or razer. Or anything vortex. They don't have emailed. They have a 4x magnifier in the pst/ razer (4-16, 6-24, 5-20) and a 6x in the gen 2
>>28282902
prs?
i plan on shooting prone. so belly i guess
>>28275908
Tika, Howa, or Thompson Center, with money left over for a Leupold or something similar to top it.
>>28282940
Precision rifle series. Think ispa but with rifles out past 800 yds
>>28282949
Curious as to why you like Thompson center? All the ones I handled in the shop felt goofy and not as mice as the other two choices you mentioned.
>>28282959
i don't plan on getting into competitions any time soon, maybe once i improve. But if i did that, i would probably look into getting another rifle.
how does it fuck up your timing to use a straight contour? just curious....
Does anyone here hunt with a PTR91? I need a hunting rifle so I can get back into deer hunting but I dont want to get a bolt gun when there's a PTR on my wishlist that could possibly fill that role.
>>28282974
Positioning on in/around baricades. The positional stuff can be goofy with a 24" straight contour just because of weight and balance. And running between position will slow you down too.
>>28283034
I did once. Fuck that heavy nigger.
>>28283043
Weight doesn't really bother me. Was muhreen so I'm used to carrying a rifle everywhere. And I'll be sitting in a stand most of the time anyways.
>>28283056
same here, had to carry the SAW as a boot.
>>28283073
Boots always get the SAW simply cause nobody wants to carry that heavy shit.
I had an M4 most of the time.
>>28283107
no shit, hence why i said when i was a boot.
>>28283137
I was just assplaining for the other chodes in this thread.
>>28283164
>whitesplaining
>shitlord
anyone know how far out you can hear a steel target be hit?
>>28283178
Depends on how its hung and what you hit it with really. Gongs at a friends parents farm we could hear out past 800. Hung with old hose iirc
>>28283190
.308
and what is the best way to hang it for the purpose of hearing it at a distance?
>>28283199
Weld a big tuning fork to it.
>>28282304
I think so. I ordered it separate; got the arfcom discount and got the barrel for $140.
>>28282443
It had better do that. I think the AR platform probably lends itself to that the best, particularly if the receiver/barrel line up is good.
>>28282932
Damnit, I screwed up the name I guess. It's still a bit pricey, so I'm not close to buying it yet.
>>28283964
>arfcom discount
That's a think with them? Is it military only?
>>28283199
The looser it hugs the better. Old water hose if you can find it Works good. Chains nice until you hit it and blow it up
>>28277295
Got a 695 in .30-06 unfired for $400 recently
beautiful
>>28282705
>
What im trying to get across is that you wont get the results you're looking for when you spend thousands on your rifle and nothing on your scope, which is common with people new to long range shooting
Yeah as expected, I dont know dick about optics so I picked something on the lower end.
>>28275511
Ridge and valley rod and gun club? My niigga
WHERE CAN I FIND A SNIPER RIFLE
WHERE IS THERE A SNIPER RIFLE
WHERE CAN I FIND AMMO FOR THE PSG1?!
http://youtu.be/IkyAOMR7t0U
I asked in the last thread but didn't get any answers. Has anyone used or own any IOR Valdada scopes? I'm thinking about getting the 3x18 mp8 scope for around $1700 and trying to decide wither that or a vortex razor, or get something like a night force.
>>28282356
Can you see yourself being able to shoot better then the barrel?
>>28289652
I havent but there is plenty on the old and new hide about ior scopes. some love the new gens and some won't touch them with a 10' pole because of their old generations.
which razor are you looking at the gen 1 5-20 or the new 3-18/4.5-27?
Sorry for not getting back to you about the nf optics in the other thread, went to sleep and forgot about it. Concerning NF scopes there are plenty of better options in their price range. If you are paying almost 2k for their nxs scope line and almost 3k for their F1 series that is alot to spend for their options. For 3k you could go with a vortex gen2 4.5-27 and pay for a spuhr mount too or you could look at a 'demo' model steiner m5xi 5-25 with msr reticle, get the ard, a set of seekins 34mm rings, and a set of aadland lens covers.
Now if you were wanting a lightweight scope or a short overall length scope, and either of those options were your main priority then sure look at NF. i dont think they can be beat in either of those departments. It all comes down to which is more important for you.
I've thought about going with the NF 2.5-10x24 on my scar so I have enough room to add my cqbl laser out front. Right now I have the burris 1.5-8 but at 13.5" that is just too long for me to run the dual laser out front. the nf2.5-10x24 is only 9.9" long
>>28289667
Not that guy but shooting under .5 moa isn't that hard. Now doing it consistently is a challenge of the whole setup.
Sometimes the stars align, your ammo is spot on, the wind dies down enough for the rest of the string, and you pull off something nice.
The round low and left was my 2nd shot in the string and was when the gust died down. It then picked back up for the remaining 3 shots which I fired in under 90 seconds since a cease fire was about to take place.
Those 4 close rounds are ~ .25moa and with the 2nd shot in the string put into the mix comes just about moa in total. For the shooting conditions for that day I'll take that.
>>28289667
>>28289959
Just to note my most consistent strings at 300yds are usually .5-.75 moa with this gun and ammo.
At 100yds if I have it on sandbags I'll be able to do .25moa groups about 30% of the time and under .5moa about 65%. If on a bipod well that is another story cause I tend to get lazy with my fundamentals when shooting from a bipod.
>>28289959
>>28289994
You seem like you know a lot about optics can you suggest an optic for a PTR91? Im looking to do minute of man at 800m if thats possible. Ideally l'd like to spend ~$500 on the optic, a little more is fine because I get a discount on stuff. This would be my first magnified optic so be gentle.
>>28275511
Precision rifles and handloading go hand in hand. When you spend that much time and money on a rifle it only feels right to build quality ammunition to feed it.
Technique wise, there's plenty to read about and there's no single way to do it. For example, if you shoot prone position you'll find your shooting technique to be different to bench rest shooting. There are a couple of principles that remain constant. Trigger pulling should be slow and steady, you don't want to snatch/jerk the trigger. You shouldn't hold your breath during a shot, but it is important to pull the trigger during the same stage of your breath every time. You shouldn't have to force the rifle into position, your muscles should be relaxed as possible. When you line your rifle up, close your eyes for 7-10 seconds. If the rifle is off target when you open your eyes you will need to re-adjust your body into position. Repeat until you remain on target when you open your eyes.
It's a lot to think about but practice makes perfect. At the end of the day, the biggest variable for precision shooting is the person pulling the trigger.
>>28290029
Not the anon you're replying to, but look for the Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP. I have two of those scopes (with milrad reticle) and it's great at shooting man size targets out to 1,000m. I find milrad much easier to see (I'm not an inches/foot/yards kinda guy) and the FFP reticle makes it much easier to use when shooting at different magnifications. The turrets are mil/mil so you won't get mixed up when changing your turrets and looking through the scope (there are some scopes that are MOA/MIL for the turrets/reticle which doesn't make any sense to me).
>>28275511
Lol thats a nice range m8, the ridges and valleys look dope
>>28289255
Yo senpai you know who it is, this nigga clearly operates we should all oper9 and shit post together some day
>>28289959
Thanks for replying.
What I'm looking for is something for my ar build but can work with a precision bolt gun one I get the funds to make one so it has to fit two roles. Lower mag for somewhat close to medium ranges like 3x and something I can use to max out the ar and can stretch the legs of a nice bolt gun. So like 14x-18x. I want mil mil ret and turrets, Ffp, and illuminated reticle. I was looking at the gen 2 3x18 razor but good damn is it heavy and for 2 ounces more and $2-300 more I can get it's bigger brother but then I'm losing low mag for the ar. Also want a non cluttered reticle that looks effective which is why I was wondering about the IOR. Are there anything you would suggest for my criteria? I know I would probably be better off buying two scopes but I would rather have one nice optic instead of 2 mediocre sub 1k scopes.
>>28290139
Oh fuck yea nigga
>>28284346
Sorry, busy day.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_643/271275_BALLISTIC_ADVANTAGE_AR15_COM_MEMBER_DISCOUNT_PROGRAM_PRICE_LIST_INSIDE.html
>>28282380
are there any other suggestions for glass on a $2k budget? i would prefer to look at multiple options.
what kind of glass are you guys using?
what is the 0, 20, and 30 MOA format for scope rails? i dont completely understand how the format works.
i realize this is a stupid question, new to buying precision rifles and on a previous thread you guys gave some decent advice.
>>28290561
What do you mean format?
>>28290488
Nightforce
>>28290561
Refers to the level of slope built into the rail, to allow for more elevation adjustment on the scope.
>>28290620
so would a 20 MOA seekins rail be a good choice? or is it dependent on the optic you use?
that is the one the place im looking at buying a rifle from sells.
>>28290620
>>28290662
disregard i am a dipshit. i figured it out
that being said, how are seekins rails and rings?
>>28290029
I've not been the most fortunante individual with ptrs and accuracy, but if you are wanting to see man sized targets and to hit them out to 400yds you could either look at a 1.5-8 / 2-10 / 2.5-10 / 4-12 (ala leupy ar) / 3-12 / 3-15.
I personally wouldn't go above 15x because you start adding more weight to your gun.
now since you put a limit of ~500 for the optic that narrows things down.
If you bump things up to ~750 you could look at the burris xtr2 2-10x42.
http://www.opticsplanet.com/burris-xtr-ii-riflescope-2-10x42mm.html
With a optics planet 10% code you could pick it up for 720.
If you wanted a 2.5-10 you could look at the vortex line of 2.5-10 scopes. Your options to look at would be within their pst line and that would be their 2.5-10x44 sfp and that runs around 599. If you wanted their ffp model that will add a couple hundred dollars over the sfp version.
In the 4-12 category you could look at the leupy ar mod 1 line of scopes.
https://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/mark-ar-riflescopes/mark-ar-mod-1-4-12x40mm/
You can find this scope for about 499.
Lastly in the 3-15 line of scope you could look at the swfa 3-15x42.
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-15x42-Tactical-Rifle-Scope-P62238.aspx
They run from swfa at 699. If that is too much still you could look at the swfa 3-9 HD for 599, and I've heard nothing but good things from their hd glass lineup.
>>28290183
What are you meaning by close range? if you plan on having this rifle do double duty from 50yds and in then just piggy back a red dot like a trijicon rmr on a spuhr with the 4.5-27.
It will seriously be a bitch lugging that rifle around with the optic doing close in drills but yeah.
Here is a photo of the rmr piggy backing on top.
http://precisionrifleblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/spuhr-mount-with-reflex-sight-mounted-at-45-degrees1.jpg?w=300
One option would be to look at the older steiner 3-12 models. you can pick those up for 13-1400. Tiborsaurusrex did a review I believe on that model if you care to see what he had to say about it. Ilya has also talked about the steiner 3-12 and said some pretty good things about it too.
>>28290488
on a 2k budget I'd suggest looking at the vortex 3-18. you can buy them normally for 21/2200 and maybe with christmas almost here maybe you could put one on backorder for 2k or less.
>>28290787
not the other poster but seekins makes good product. I haven't used their rails, mostly NF since that is what is carried locally but I have at least 3 sets of seekins rings and they are fantastic. best set of alum rings. if you want steel rings then look at badger ord, I have a set of their m40a3 rings and those are phenomenal as well.
Damn, it sure feels good when you can manage a nice group!!
These were at 100 yards with my Savage 10FCP-SR with a Primary Arms 4-14x FFP, shot off of a bench and sandbag. The right groupd is 0.58" center to center and the left is 0.69".
>>28290488
I've got a 4.5-27 and 5-20 razer. 2x hst 4-16 and a Bushnell legend 4.5x14. If you can spring the money for a 5-20 or the gen 2 they really outshine anything in the viper catagory. Check the burris xtr ii's also. If I didn't get the deals I got for vortex I'd probably have those. We didn't sell much else where I worked so most of the "alpha" scopes we're out of my price range
>>28291780
>bench and sandbag
do it shouldered and standing up
>>28291878
You don't even know what precision rifle is. Not a single post in this thread is about shooting an unsupported rifle.
>>28291858
what kind of reticle should i look for? the christmas tree ones seem exsessive.
also i usually work in meters, should i do mil or MOA?
>>28291927
The 5-20 I have is the Christmas tree one. The gen 2 is just the regular. I've also used a friends s&b with one of the horus reticles. For the kind of shooting I normally do the gen 2 works. The tree is nicer though.
Dad told me to bring gums for Christmas Shooting! Gonna be a great time!
>>28282337
Steel targets can cost a bit, but steel plates are cheeeeap. Try to find a fab shop in your area and get a price. Who cares if you get square targets instead of round?
