>both Russia and India scaling back orders
>More and more problems
>On yet another prototype iteration, now officially two prototype versions more than the F-35 Shitting II has had
>Worst Korea pulling out
>Still no S-ducts
>still no hex nuts
>Russian defense minister said they're going to have to make a new program soon
>Giving up and now trying to ask the Chinks for help in designing a stealth aircraft
>now putting SLEPs into place for existing aircraft because there's no replacement in sight
When are they just going to give up and declare this thing dead?
Was worst Korea really in for that shit
>>28254831
>Worst Korea pulling out
They were never in.
>>28254831
forgot
>begging Brazil for help developing it when it became clear it'd be shit
>fucking BRAZIL
>>28254831
For god's sake they should just hurry up and try to field something.
It doesn't even have to match what the US can do, just get something started that they can get some experience on.
>>28255659
It was never intended to match anything the US fields
>>28254831
What's with this bullshit?
Mass production will start in 2020.
>>28255659
>just hurry up
YF-22 first flight: 1990
F-22 first flight: 1997 (7 years)
F-22 introduction: 2005 (15 years)
X-35 first flight: 2000
F-35 first flight: 2006 (6 years)
F-35 introduction: 2015-18 (15-18 years)
T-50 first flight: 2010
Su-xx initial introduction: 2017 or later (7+ years)
Su-xx (izdeliye 30) introduction: 2020 or later (10+ years)
>>28256067
Yes it was, vatnik and the russian MoD alike claimed it to be a F-22 and F-35 killer. It was just hot air and potemkin planes all along.
>>28256243
See that would be a good excuse if Russia hasn't been trying to make a stealth aircraft since the 1980s when they first caught wind of the Advanced Tactical Fighter project.
Since then we have four different flavors of stealth aircraft. As far as I'm concerned Russia has zero, since the the Russian Air Force looks like it's about to fucking miscarry the PAK FA.
>>28256296
I misspoke, we have three if you toss out the F-117 for being retired.
But that also means that we've had a stealth aircraft that achieved initial operating capability in 1983, served for a quarter of a fucking century, and was retired, and Russia has STILL been unable to even get something remotely similar into service.
Embarrassing.
>>28256296
So what? You need time to make a good jet, especially when you have no money kek
>>28256366
>when you have no money kek
More money just extends the program length, not shortens it. F-35 and Eurofighter are good examples.
>>28256146
>the PAK FA program is proceeding as planned
>>28254831
>Disinfo
here's your $0.50 kid.
>>28256243
Russia doesn't even have an engine for it.
It's an Su-27 with a body kit and it shows.
>>28256666
You're not using that term correctly you stupid cunt.
>>28256666
This one burned up. now there's 4.
>>28254831
>Giving up and now trying to ask the Chinks for help in designing a stealth aircraft
Where you getting this. No way that Russian pride will ever allow that to happen.
>>28256243
>Su-xx initial introduction: 2017 or later (7+ years)
>plane with massive structural flaws and still NO ENGINE is going to be ready in one year
Please.
>>28256446
He means in the 2020 decade, not 2020 itself.
>>28257185
T-50-5 has been restored(pic related). Though it's basically T-50-6 with some parts from T-50-5.
>>28257413
>still having a segmented canopy
>2015
>>28257420
You can't expect Russians to build something to match the F-16.
>>28257420
>>28257492
What's the problem?
Russia will come out with operational 5th Gen fleet when US is on 7th Gen.
>>28257509
A non segmented canopy gives less objects to reflect radar than a segmented canopy. This is one of the reasons why the F-22 is stealthier than the F-35
>>28254975
>b-but
>muh super-tucano
>muh embraer
>>28256243
Yeah but here's the difference, we started our 5th gen program at the ass end of the cold war and there was no need for max sanic development/production/procurement when the slavs couldn't into superpower status.
You can bet your sweet ass that if the cold war hadn't ended when it did, that we'd have the full order of Raptors originally envisioned.
We've also had the Nighthawk, B2, F-22, and F-35 before the slavs realized S-ducts were necessary on their 2015 prototypes.
>hurry up
doesn't work against the US, sorry m8
>>28254831
>not even one source
Well I guess that's to be expected
>>28257664
>less
How exactly? Give me some numbers.
>>28257795
>S-ducts were necessary on their 2015 prototypes
So the PAK FA doesn't, or originally didn't have, S-Ducts?
>>28258194
It has never had S-ducts.
>>28258198
So how badly does lack of s-ducts affect stealth? Enough to necessitate a major redesign of the aircraft to add them in?
>>28258189
Are you fucking joking? Because it doesn't have metal bars in the middle reflecting radar.
>>28258224
>So how badly does lack of s-ducts affect stealth?
Pretty significantly when the competition has it. The PAK-FA has exposed fan blades which can be seen from the front, and they'll reflect radar.
Looking at the overall geometry, however, makes me think they weren't really going to even attempt to compete with the F-22/F-35 in terms of RCS. No fucking way the slavs are that stupid to have canards (hurr they're lerxes), no S-ducts, a segmented canopy, and that many god damned rivets in a competitive 5th gen stealth aircraft.
>>28258263
So then why the fuck are they building it?
Scare factor? Export?
>>28258286
I really don't know. Like I said, I can't honestly believe they'd continue with such an inherently unstealthy geometry if they were seriously trying to end up with something to compete with the Raptor/Lightning.
>>28256296
It's more than that considering the stealth UAVs
>>28258297
Maybe they created it as an aircraft to lure away potential buyers of U.S. military aircraft. Not necessarily the F-35 (though that could be one of the reasons).
Russian tech has gotten a bit of bad press over the last few decades, considering all the wars where western/american gear has blown it the fuck out. Even if it was just export monkey models that were getting destroyed, it still makes for bad PR and kills Russian arms sales.
The PAK FA might have been the latest attempt for the Russian arms industry to try and get back in the game.
>>28258341
I'm just considering the ones that are in service. I don't even want to get started on our experimental aircraft, or what sort of spooky occult black-project aircraft we have buzzing around.
>>28258286
Export was definitely a factor. The Russian aircraft industry suffered so badly from the post-Cold War collapse that they're pretty much entirely reliant on foreign investment to fund their fighter programs.
>>28254831
>not having carrier-based stealth drones yet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9ixL-aVRCI
>>28258350
>Russian tech has gotten a bit of bad press over the last few decades, considering all the wars where western/american gear has blown it the fuck out. Even if it was just export monkey models that were getting destroyed, it still makes for bad PR and kills Russian arms sales.
I remember how they renamed the T-72BU to the T-90 because Iraq gave the T-72 such a horrible rep.
>>28258414
And then everyone else with T-72s sure didn't help give it any better reputation.
>>28258350
>Russian tech has gotten a bit of bad press over the last few decades, considering all the wars where western/american gear has blown it the fuck out. Even if it was just export monkey models that were getting destroyed
yeah I can't really let this excuse the slavs. Not only has plenty of non export slavshit been blasted by western tech, the bulk of slavic military might was equipped with essentially the same shit in terms of performance. Yeah, the Iraqis ran monkey model -72s. Other than the RGFC possessing a handful of nonexport A1 models, the monkey models themselves were comparable in performance to the vast majority of russian armor.
Monkey model would fly with me if the slavs would produce more than 10 of anything that actually performs up to par with western tech. You can't cower behind
>b-b-but that isn't our b-best shit!
when you yourself don't even truly use said best shit.
>>28258350
>Russian tech has gotten a bit of bad press over the last few decades
Thats because there is no Russian Tech over the last few decades, there plenty of pretenders and missinformation, as usual for Russia but there's a fact no one can circumvent:
Even if the tech works as advertised, they can't afford to refit their armed forces with a budget only 20% bigger than the Bongs
>>28258350
>Russian tech has gotten a bit of bad press over the last few decades
that's because people have finally seen how it compares to equivalent western tech
So Russia's only hope is if by some sort of a miracle they come across a shot-down yet relatively undamaged F-22 or F-35?
>>28259567
at this point?
pretty much
>>28256666
>>28259567
>implying they COULD
>>28260141
I mean, the turks are more than likely to get some F-35s.
>>28254831
>Worst Korea pulling out
Good. Putting booster seats in airplanes is dumb anyway.
>>28260201
I am pretty sure Worst Korea and Nippon are still in. Nippon just started "producing" their own F-35. The only one that is on the edge of pulling out is America-Lite, because it's 2015.
>>28260396
Japan is not nor ever was interested in the PAK-FA.
>>28260440
>Referring to North Korea as Worst Korea
Know your maymays fucking retards.
>>28260469
Look at the post I'm replying to.
Then look at my post.
Then tell me how, in the name of Odin's hairy, shriveled blue ballsack, you could possibly believe my post had fuck all to do with either Korea in any way.
>>28260509
Did you not post this?
>>28260201
>>28260528
No, I did not. There was, however, talk between ROK and Russia when they were doing their SAM deal to transfer or partner on VLO aircraft tech. Russian announced it like it was a PAK-FA order in the bag, but it never went anywhere because ROK just wanted some data for their 5th gen program, and were exploring Russia as a possible tech exchange partner.
This was years ago. Every now and then someone brings it up like it's still a thing.
>>28260560
Oh... I was just pretending.
>>28258198
And most likely won't. I've never heard Sukhoi wanted a S-duct.
>>28258194
It has sorta S-ish ducts, like the Rafale has, not proper ones like on the F-22/F-35
>>28258232
how is it any different from the F-35's canopy reinforcing bars?>>28258263
>Pretty significantly when the competition has it. The PAK-FA has exposed fan blades which can be seen from the front, and they'll reflect radar.
do we really know that those are the fan blades or the radar blockers.
>>28260788
>It has sorta S-ish ducts, like the Rafale has, not proper ones like on the F-22/F-35
its sorta s-ducted along two perpendicular planes then possible a blocker would hide what remains.
>>28258580
>Even if the tech works as advertised, they can't afford to refit their armed forces with a budget only 20% bigger than the Bongs
bong stuff is hella expensive. slavshit is retard cheap for what they want it to do.
![2460892-7[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/bLFsgE1.jpg "2460892-7[1].jpg")
>>28260716
It has some kind of S-shape.
>>28262061
>do we really know that those are the fan blades or the radar blockers.
This "radar blocker, no worries, totally effective" meme needs to die. Pic related is what an actual, effective intake radar frequency disperser/absorber actually looks like. The vanes in front of the compressor fans on the F-18E/F and PAK-FA being posted are little more than air flow conditioners going into the compressor blades.
>bong stuff is hella expensive. slavshit is retard cheap for what they want it to do.
Not the PAK-FA. Not the Borei or Yasen. Hell, the only arguably "cheap" thing coming out of Russian yards is the Gorshkov class. Everything else coming out of their shipyards or aerospace that's truly contemporary design (instead of Soviet design redux) is expensive, low-unit run and designed to be more capable per unit than old Soviet designs. It ain't the 60's anymore. Get with it.
>It has some kind of S-shape.
No more than an F-18E/F. For a real S-duct that actually obscures compressor fan blades from damn near every possible aspect, see the B-2, YF-23, F-22, F-35, etc.
>people using the term s-ducts wrong
why?
>>28262139
>This "radar blocker, no worries, totally effective" meme needs to die. Pic related is what an actual, effective intake radar frequency disperser/absorber actually looks like. The vanes in front of the compressor fans on the F-18E/F and PAK-FA being posted are little more than air flow conditioners going into the compressor blades.
im sorry but did you really just compare a 1970s design to a 2000s one? We don't even know if the damn picture is for real. also just because you don't understand something its a meme.
>>28262139
>Not the PAK-FA. Not the Borei or Yasen. Hell, the only arguably "cheap" thing coming out of Russian yards is the Gorshkov class. Everything else coming out of their shipyards or aerospace that's truly contemporary design (instead of Soviet design redux) is expensive, low-unit run and designed to be more capable per unit than old Soviet designs. It ain't the 60's anymore. Get with it.
the first runs are supposed to be hella expensive- and why wouldn't they be when you are basically restarting the whole production and design processes from the cold. also wrong analogy- Gorshkov is the expensive and more capable frigate to the Grigorovich class.
>MFW when it is only a U-duck
LOLOLOL
>>28262334
*infamous picture of the PAK-FA's engine, that is.
>>28262336
its actually like 2 Us, one U along the vertical that then turns into a U along the horizontal because of the wheelbay.
>>28262345
That's just paralay shit, no Russian patent shows that.
>>28262071
Thats... not an S-Duct.
They look like airflow gates to allow the engines to work at supersonic airspeed.
Pic related, from the concorde.
>>28256067
You. Are. Retarded.
>>28254975
USA asked Denmark for help developing the F35.
You make it sound like having contractors from other countries is something new.
>>28262396
USAF asked Denmark to pre-order the F-35, and offer to help the Danes build pieces domestically so the politicians can say that F-35 brings jobs to Denmark.
The UK is the only partner that actually helps with R&D. The rest contribute money so they get some technology to build parts indigenous.
>>28262435
And you have the details of the offer the brazil got. Please post it.
>>28262334
>im sorry but did you really just compare a 1970s design to a 2000s one? We don't even know if the damn picture is for real. also just because you don't understand something its a meme.
Just because you don't have the theoretical basic education in physics and light/em propagation, you assume it will work. It's beyond obvious it does very little attenuating of em scatter.
>the first runs are supposed to be hella expensive- and why wouldn't they be when you are basically restarting the whole production and design processes from the cold. also wrong analogy- Gorshkov is the expensive and more capable frigate to the Grigorovich class.
This would be true except for the fact that the second Yasen (Kazan) is costing roughly TWICE what the first cost, and taking even longer. Borei costs are slowly climbing too. Aside from the two frigate lines, point out a single successful, cheap post-soviet design mass production project. Maybe, maaaaaaybe the Armata vehicle family becomes this, but I seriously doubt it.
>>28254831
No ones cares. Autist.
>>28258232
>Metal bar
Are you sure about this thing is metal?
>>28254831
Russhits are retarded, I could have told you this. Pretty much all of their "great achievements" were built in the backs of Germans. Thanks Hugo for the AK.
>>28262606
>russia
>having even rudimentary understanding of complex radar-absorbing composites
pick one
>>28262615
Why not?
>>28262617
Because they haven't implemented it on a single operational platform and it's been 32 fucking years since the US did? If they could have done it before now, they would have. No question.
>>28262615
This piece is not need to be made of radar absorbing material, it can be made from a carbon fiber tube.
>>28262621
In 32 years they can develop or steal the tech.
>>28262630
That's the thing. You need the industrial infrastructure and material science for that. It's just like 5th gen engines. They are way behind on a number of the prerequisites, like material science. It isn't there, and it means they can't even steal it and be able to execute. Maybe they're getting close. Maybe not.
>>28262623
Carbon fiber is a radar absorbent material though.
>http://jit.sagepub.com/content/37/1/91.abstract
And besides, I don't think the Lightning II uses a simple carbon fiber tube
>>28262640
We know too little about their capabilities. I read a lot of serious military analysts who claimed that Russians can not hold a serious military operations abroad, and that they do not have any PGM competency. And then there were operations in the Crimea, and Syria, and numerous strikes by cruise missiles that were supposed to exist only in handful prototypes.
>>28262668
>Carbon fiber is a radar absorbent material though.
And Russians know how to produce it.
>>28262679
Source? I mean, we are talking about russians here
>>28262689
Quick google:
http://www.compositesworld.com/news/hcc-to-build-carbon-fiber-plant-in-russia
http://www.hccomposite.com/en/
>>28256666
satanic quads
>>28262673
They're literally operating everything but a small tactical force from Russian airfields and ports. It's hardly fucking abroad. It's barely out of their back yard. And it's still a tiny force comparatively.
You're equating Russia's current contributions (hardly greater than England's during the two Iraq wars, if that) with a force which, 30 years ago, was expected to go toe to toe with the US/NATO practically anywhere in the world through proxies or directly.
>>28262744
Well, it was not expected that they are capable of even a comparatively small operation. It is safer to exaggerate their capabilities than downplay it.
>>28257420
>>28262797
>>28262797
>>28262816
>$340 million per plane
>Can't afford $5 for a bottle of Loctite
Hey its another t50 thread
>pakfa a shit
>agree with me or you are a slav
>massive cocksucking on both sides
Thank you /k/
>>28262878
Same as F-35 threads.
>>28262878
So....basically like any other thread on /k/?
>>28262878
Except unlike the F-35 it actually is shit
>>28263159
Except unlike the PAK FA it actually is shit
>>28263328
>Except unlike the PAK FA it...
>>Is under production
>>Is flying
>>Is being purchased by customer nations
You'll get there someday, Yuri. Don't give up!
>>28262334
>ITS A SHOP ITS NOT REAL AT ALL
This is the worst meme
>>28256296
Holy shit vatniks get btfo. I'm calling this and I'm gonna post it in all future slavshit stealth thread.
Also you could even say we've had 4 and a half because the leading edges of the Blackbird were coated in an early form of RAM (yes really, look it up) as well as several other LO characteristics being incorporated into it's design. And we haven't even mentioned stealth drones: NorGrumm rq-180, a bunch of Lockheed drones, and I'm sure Boeing has one or two.
>>28262744
This.
Russia isn't even a shadow of what a single Soviet Union army was capable of pulling off.
>>28263401
Fucking lost it, savage as hell.
>>28263328
lol ok
>>28263401
>>28260167
I didn't know the Foundation's Israeli branch was getting F35s. Gotta deal with those Abrahamic ancient problems somehow.
>>28263401
>>28257420
Dumbfuckistanian burgerclap amerilard is mad again.
>>28264742
Do you honestly think that segmented canopies are more stealthy than non segmented?
Are we seriously having this conversation again?
>>28254831
>>28254922
Bullshit, South Korea was never in the PAK FA program
>>28254931
This
>>28262340
>>28262334
It's as real as real can be.
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=d4c1371d9f5fa4c6ef49f6405de285b28be819a6.871984
Keep crying about how it's totally been photoshopped though.
>>28262709
Um, every photo of that segmented canopy in the T-50 shows quite clearly it's probably steel, at best titanium.
Russians either don't know how to build a stealth jet or don't have the money to.
So can we officially declared the pakfa to be on a death spiral?
>>28265749
it has to get off the ground as a program to spiral to its death. as it stands now, it's just quietly rusting to pieces.
>>28265880
Touche
>>28264742
God the YF-23 was a sexy bitch.
>>28264787
They did build their own T-50 though.
>>28262673
The Russians are nowhere near the capability they used to have during the Soviet era. This is an objective fact. For example, take a look at the difference between their navies in 1990 and 2015.
http://www.offiziere.ch/?p=25280
>>28267609
The South Korean T-50 is a completely different project from the PAK-FA. It just had the unfortunate coincidence of receiving the same designation.
>>28267795
and now it'll forever be tarnished with people thinking it's somehow associated with a piece of junk
>>28267830
The South Korean T-50 is a joke anyway. It's a shitty trainer.
The fact people confused it with a stealth masterpiece might make South Koreans surprised, since all they can do is shitty cars and cheap cellphones.
Russki here.
I have some "insider" information (some proven Sukhoi engineer from aviation forum, lol) about PAK FA. The engines are fucked up. They weren't able to make them. And the project is being closed. Just because a huge pile of money was wasted for nothing.
So they decided, it would be a new plane with old engines. Yes, without stealth. But mah super-maneuverability and shit, so it will be called 5-th generation anyway.
Forget about russian aviation. It is no match for even soviet not to mention modern US. Honestly it is no match for even Brazil.
>>28268114
>Honestly it is no match for even Brazil.
Now you just went full retard. Consider suicide after this statement.
>>28268114
>stealth is the only element of 5th gen
>>28268139
Brazil actually makes planes people buy though.
>>28268181
Okay, lets go to another key aspect of 5th gen airframes
>advanced engines
>Fifth-generation jet fighters use the newest generation of high performance jet engines and only the American Pratt & Whitney F119 is fully developed. The engines for the F-35 are still under development, the Chinese are dependent on Russian engines, and even the Russians are falling short in the development of the latest jet engines.[54][55]
>>28268184
Military wise? Or assembled commercial crap?
Brazilian military aviation is at least 70 years behind Russia. They will never catch up, not this century at least.
>>28268181
based gavin
>>28268236
And yet they're actually making planes that people want to buy - unlike Russia :)
>>28263401
>f-35 is shit
>lockmart shills triggers
>success
>>28264968
You can distinguish the metals from composites under a primer and paint layers on photos. You are fucking esper or what?
>>28268357
Sure, the entire world can't wait to get their hands on some AMX or Super Tucano flying turd.
Like my teacher used to say, "the only good thing in Embraer aircraft are the Made in USA engines".
>>28268488
>getting mad that you got BTFO
>>28268114
Post the link, bratishka.
>>28268357
>what is SU-30MK
>Su-34
>Su-35
>kilo
>>28254831
The program looks to be on track to me.
5 years old now and they have 7 prototypes flying. All they need is the engine.
>>28260167
What on Earth does SCP even mean?
>>28270451
Google it, fucker.
>>28262630
They aren't communist anymore, so all the commies and jews in the west aren't rushing to send them info
>>28254831
I hope you're wrong. Better planes means better advancements for the future.
No matter who's developing them.
>>28256666
>smushed pancake plane
>sexy
You scamp
>>28268114
>some proven Sukhoi engineer from aviation forum, lol)
If you're talking about that post on paralay forum, you are moron.
>>28268955
http://paralay.iboards.ru/viewtopic.php?p=500283#p500283
In short - person who never showed on forum for years SUDDENLY came back and begin to post about how everything bad is without any proofs or reasonble arguments.
>>28268236
It's hilarious how this question is answered seriously. How low the mighty have fallen.
>>28268114
>>28268198
Doesn't take an inside source to know Russia can't build the engines that the PAK-FA was supposed to get. The idea that they could match the F-22's performance was always laughable.
>>28269117
There is nothing that suggest Russia can build the engines. The PAK-FA will enter service with the AL-31 that will give it mediocre performance and never attract attention from the export market that Russia was building it for.
It will be another Slavic Superweapon that they build a dozen of and never use in hope they can convince India, Brazil or China to buy them without seeing how poorly they perform.
>>28272490
>person who never showed on forum for years
>without any proofs
>2315 messages and familiarity with part of the moderators.
>WHERE ARE MY PROOFS! THESE PROOFS PROVE NOTHING! LINK TO RUSSIA TODAY, PLEASE!
Fuck off, learning-disabled putin's scum.
>>28272970
>familiarity with part of the moderators.
You think who told this story?
>>28264920
BTFO
T
F
O
>>28272746
Brazilians are very ignorant people, you never know if these posts are trolling or not, so might as well give them a real proper answer.
>>28273235
>desperately trying to act as though the Russian aviation industry isn't hanging on by a thread
>>28273582
If my country's aviation industry had to import Swedish aircraft, then i would be worried.
>>28254831
So what is India going to do for a 5th generation fighter then?
Their own 5th generation fighter jet won't be ready until 2030.
>>28254831
>>28274140
The poo-in-loo project that they're pushing forward is actually meant to collect enough human feces to distill a high performance organic fuel slush that can power their newest generation of aircraft.
>>28274140
They might eventually try an ask the US to procure some F35 especially since the US has made some significant effort to try and get closer to India militarily.
>>28274177
>ask the US to procure some F35s
I'd be willing to bet my left nut that the Indians would secretly hand an F35 over to the Russians if they thought it would give them a leg up in the region.
>>28274187
Not unlike Israel, who is getting F35s.
>>28274187
Actually they won't because they don't trust the Russians to not sell the information to China.
Pakistan military is a joke, so all India has to worry about right now is China.
If China gets their 5th generation fighter jets by 2020, then it would be of odd for India to wait so long until 2030 when they can actually pump out the AMCA to counter it.
I am wondering right now if the Rafale can actually go head to head against 5th generation Chinese fighters. This, along with the S-400 might be their stop-gap counter, and they might ditch the PakFA entirely then in that case.
>>28274173
How environmentally friendly
>>28274232
>Rafale can actually go head to head against 5th generation Chinese fighters.
>>28274414
Chinese 5th generation won't be as good as American ones.
>>28274414
>>28274434
Tbh the difference between 5th and 4th gen isn't as significant as 4th to 3rd.
The age old adage of pilot over plane applies now more than ever.
Modernize the electronics and you basically just have different flavors of the month when taken to the pinnacle of human capabilities.
>>28274558
Spoken like someone who has no clue what 5th gen means and what it changes in how combat works.
Educate yourself. Start here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxK6O5--9Z0
>>28274558
You're a fucking retard
Looks like Germany is planning to develop a new gen fighter with other european partners.
Well can't be worse than the F35 develoment right?
>>28272490
>Hy и зaчeм пpoдoлжaть пpoгpaммy, кoгдa нyжнo cтaвить в cepию MиГ-35
Mигoблядь пoлoмaлacь, яcнo кaк бoжий дeнь.
>>28274757
>European partnerships
Guaranteed to turn into a clusterfuck because European "partners" can never really agree on what they want. It was a miracle that the Typhoon lived to see the light of day.
>>28274754
>>28274722
Gee I'm sorry, I forgot about "muh special snowflake stealth"
Not like it matters when the enemy has already fucking seen you.
I'm talking about in all aspects except for stealth or whatnot. Obviously the f22, f35, pak fa or whatever have a big advantage in engaging on favorable terms.
>>28274859
VLO is the least of the 5th gen attributes. Congrats on still not understanding this.
>>28274434
Too bad Rafale is European.
>>28274890
>>28274890
Fine, then tell me something the f22 has that the eurofighter doesn't? Or even the f15?
>improved avionics
>limited thrust vectoring
>supercruise(this is honestly probably the biggest advantage I could think of)
>internal payload
Anything weapons or electronics related can probably be retrofitted on older craft. So it's not like they're gonna be lightyears ahead in terms of how far they can engage.
>>28256339
It was fucking shot down by a 25K $ missile you dumb fuck.
>>28274956
>Fine, then tell me something the f22 has that the eurofighter doesn't? Or even the f15?
Stealth. No stealth = no 5-th Gen. Deal with it, Ivan.
>>28257512
Do you have it without the shitty text ?? You are ruining art here
>>28274992
I mean't besides stealth. For fuck's sake you're being thick skulled. "hurr VLO is least of 5th gen attributes"
>I state some other attributes
"lol stealth=5th gen deal with it"
>>28274956
LPI datalink and radar emissions
IR heatsinking and heat sumps throughout the airframe
>>28274956
see >>28274722
and actually watch the fucking vid this time.
>>28274837
isn't the tornado a good aircraft?
>>28274990
>thousands and thousands of sorites into hostile airspace
>1 lost
>this somehow invalidates the fact that Russia STILL hasn't come up with anything even vaguely equivalent or even LO
k
>>28275303
It is
>>28274757
Considering how awful the Eurofighter development was..
>>28262878
I have no idea what their talking about, just see a bunch anons spitting out random un-sourced rumors.
>>28275296
I watched about half. I get the overall gist of the video.
I'm not gonna claim non-ignorance since I haven't watched the whole thing but I just wanna say one thing.
He is one source. A quite informative source, but still, only one person. There's tons of other sources out there saying that 5th gen *isn't* the best thing since sliced bread.
Honestly, I can't claim one way or another. Only time will tell if the f22 and f35 are truly a mark above the rest of if it's just dudebro tomfoolery.
>>28276752
By all means. Don't let facts, sources and experts get in the way of your opinions.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCje2g--AF2bup1MStDC0-wQ
The rest of that conference. Another 15 experts in their fields, all talking about what the F-35 and 5th gen means.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZbqkxjAK8E
A Russian commentator talking about 5th gen from the Russian perspective.
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/absolute-youngest-marine-in-the-f-35-test-force-shares-1716981177
An excellent article about some of the specific gains in F-35 maintainability, from someone that actually maintained them.
http://www.hatch.senate.gov/public/_files/F22AssertionsAndFacts.pdf
A US Sentate report rider about some of the more misguided assertions about the F-22.
Read and watch, then dig a lot more. Or don't. Just don't be shocked when people point out your ignorance.
>>28274990
Idk how is he retarded.
That F-117 was flying over the same territory many times in a same routes. It was easy to catch even for the Serbs
>>28268522
It has fucking bolts going through it.
>>28277254
cool source
>>28277717
there's photos in this thread....
Are you going to tell me that looks like carbon fiber to you? Really?
>>28276982
Even when they knew when and where it was coming from, it STILL almost got away. They had to fire three missiles and keep their radar on past the time limit they were ordered to stay under.
>>28277254
Composite panels can be attached by rivets, you uneducated moron.
>>28277773
>Grey paint
>It looks like a sheet of tin for me
Wow.
>>28277773
>hurrr carbon fiber can't be painted!
please burger try harder
