Is China just buying these for the engines or what?
insurance in the likely case their "indigenous" programs end up crashing
>>27955285
No just to copy
>>27955285
Chinese engines are currently better than the ones on the Su-35S.
It's probably for the LEVCON IFF since Chinese radars are already better than Russian GaN AESA X-Band and S-Band radars.
>>27955319
>Chinese engines are currently better than the ones on the Su-35S.
[citation needed]
>>27955285
Because 4++ gen fighter for $83 millions is a very good deal. And because Indians, probably, will buy them too. So Chinese will know capabilities of Indian planes.
>>27955543
India is not buying any. The last fighter they will probably ever buy from Russia will be the T-50/PakFA.
Even Russia likes the Su-30SM, which is based on the Indian Su-30MKI, much better than Su-35S. This is why they have so many more orders for the Su-30SM.
China desperately wants the engines. Their engines are so bad they needed to add canards onto a 'stealth' fighter just to generate enough thrust to get off the ground.
>>27955703
>they needed to add canards onto a 'stealth' fighter just to generate enough thrust
>canards generating thrust
Indian, please.
>>27955703
>Even Russia likes the Su-30SM, which is based on the Indian Su-30MKI, much better than Su-35S. This is why they have so many more orders for the Su-30SM.
Aren't they ordering both to keep two companies alive? Su-30SM is produced by Irkut, Su-35S by KnAAPO.
>>27955738
You are retarded. Canards are there to increase wing surface area, which is crucial to generating thrust, especially during lift off.
3rd party analysts stated during public unveiling in Dubai that the aircraft struggled to get off the ground and manuever. Clean indication that the engines are shit.
Now fuck off $.50 Chong.
>>27955801
Lift and thrust are not the same thing
Canards do not generate thrust
you would generate the same thrust with zero wing area as you would 100000m2
you need to learn what words mean
>>27955748
Yeah it is pretty sad.
Nearly all their aircraft design+manufacturing conpanies are making derivatives of the same 80s era Su-27 frame because they are too broke to make something new.
MiG-35 are being ordered by RuAF to keep MiG alive after they failed to garner any export orders. So it wouldnt suprise me if it was the same for Su-35S.
>>27955807
Fuck off Mong.
Lift is the phenomenon of pressure differences created by the wings, high pressure below the wing surface creates a force described as thrust which propels the aircraft up.
You need to learn what you are talking about before you get that $.50 deposited into your account.
>>27955812
It's kinda strange that they have so many models though and don't just produce one. All the plants are part of the same conglomerate anyway.
>>27955801
>Wing area
>Generating thrust
Nigger what the fuck. I could generate 10 billion pounds of thrust and have no wings
>>27955830
>high pressure below the wing surface creates a force described as thrust which propels the aircraft up.
thats called lift you mouthbreather
fucking kek
>>27955830
Jesus christ. Pilot/A&P here. Thrust and lift are NOT the same thing and are NOT used interchangeably in discussion.
>>27955830
>>27955841
Technically, in pure physics lift is a thrust, in that it is an upward force imparted by the wing section onto the body.
Practically, however, that upward force from a wing is a specific thrust type which is called lift.
So you're both right, stop bickering.
>>27955886
No, fuck off.
Its never described as thrust in any discussion.
>>27955854
>thrust
>that way
What? No. Thrust goes back, and plane goes forth because of fucking Newton's 3rd law.
But yeah, the other anon is a retard. Lift is not thrust
>>27955543
TVC is a meme
Just stall my shit up senpai
>>27955285
It's because it has higher quality than anything in the Chinese air force.
>>27955898
The plane is thrusting itself in that direction. The force providing the thrust is going in the opposite direction.
>>27955854
GTFO of /K/
>>27955801
Your confusing the J31 with the J20 nigger
J20 has never left china
>>27955898
This nigger can't into free body force diagrams
It's a physics notation you dingus
Why no canards?
SU-35 engines out power the planned engines for both of Chinas fifth gens. They also have that Russian thrust vectoring.The J-11 is lighter than the SU-35 so materials manufacturing probably didn't play a role in anything beyond life span or production efficiencies. Maybe not being Russia helped China get ahead in purchasing foreign material sciences.
>>27957455
>Why no canards?
It doesn't need them. It gets all the maneuverability it could ever need from 3D thrust vectoring. Canards would just add unnecessary drag. The only flanker that has canards to knowledge is the Flanker-D Su-33. The Su-33 is carrier-based and it needs the Canards to improve take-off and landing performance.
>>27958319
Thanks!
>>27958319
>The only flanker that has canards to knowledge is the Flanker-D Su-33
There are a few of the Su-30MKI-derived variants with canards. Russia's Su-30SM has them
>>27958319
>>27958417
Also the SU-34, and the -37 prototype. The canards have more to do with tailoring the desired static margin than direct controllability. With the SU-33 and -37 they were effectively a retroactive means of giving the jet a negative static margin (similar to the F-15 S/MTD) which was only made possible by the then-new fly-by-wire system. The 2-seat MKI with it's fuckhuge radar wound up rather nose-heavy and really NEEDED the canards as a result. The SU-30MKK (as sold by Sukhoi) and SU-35 feature lighter radars, and as a result don't need the canards.
>>27955904
>TVC
>Just stall my shit up senpai
Evidentially you know nothing about TVC. There's a reason why the F-22 has thrust vectoring.
>>27958517
>Also the SU-34
I was going to say the Su-34 in my post too but then I remembered it's not technically a "Flanker" since it has a different reporting name (Fullback)
Though >>27958319 might be a bit pedantic about that
>>27958517
>The 2-seat MKI with it's fuckhuge radar wound up rather nose-heavy and really NEEDED the canards as a result. The SU-30MKK (as sold by Sukhoi) and SU-35 feature lighter radars, and as a result don't need the canards.
What is the special radar and how does it compare to other fighter planes?
All I know is that RuAF was really impressed with the Su-30MKI performance and ended up ordering the Su-30SM (same thing), instead of more Su-35S. In fact, it seems that the Su-35S is just a warmer for their manufacturing lines to prevent them from closing. Su-30SM is expected to be the front-line A2A fighter in RuAF until T-50.
>>27958727
>What is the special radar and how does it compare to other fighter planes?
The radar was bigger. There is a part of the Flanker documentary that talks about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZvMljUNCeU
Really, if you want to learn about Russian aviation or just fighter jets in general, just watch the whole thing straight through whenever you find the time. It's a great introduction. It talks about many different concepts that often confused people, like the advantages and disadvantages of variable swept wings.
>>27958778
Thanks for posting that, will watch later.
I have actually seen clips from that before, but I didn't realize it came from a documentary and not just some news interview.
>>27955285
wot downy?
If they want the engines, they just buy the fukkin engines.
>>27961466
russia wouldnt accept that. Its like why mcdonalds encourages you to buy the meal and makes buying the burger alone seem like an unattractive proposition except here the russian probably outright said no to arequest for engines only.
>>27961552
>buying the burger alone seem like an unattractive proposition
Maybe in your fucking lardass communist country
>>27958691
I would consider the Su-34 to be a member of the Flanker family even though it has a different purpose (and codename) than the others.
>>27955904
Thrust vectoring owns the sky, you nigger.
>>27961552
Pls nigga.
If nothing else, the Chicoms could pay the same net contract amount for a proportional increase in the number of engines delivered...keep the airframe and radar Vladimir.
>>27955748
>Aren't they ordering both to keep two companies alive? Su-30SM is produced by Irkut, Su-35S by KnAAPO.
You really don't know how aerospace procurement and manufacturing works. Everybody gets a piece of the pie anon. The design originator doesn't build the entire platform.
>>27955285
No. They bought it to learn some about avionic design and to have a strong fighter.
Based upon what Janes and other sources have said, I think China's engine industry has little to learn from the new engines.
They know the design and the theory, they just can't make AL-31/41 engines properly.
Their WS-10 finally works, but the AL-31 still beats it in RELIABILITY. Chinese quality control needs more time before they will risk an airframe.
>>27961730
>The design originator doesn't build the entire platform.
It's Soviet\Russian style. They tried to have all production in one place to increase efficiency and cut logistical costs. Full cycle in one place.
>>27958727
>All I know is that RuAF was really impressed with the Su-30MKI performance and ended up ordering the Su-30SM (same thing), instead of more Su-35S.
It's not that they were very much impressed by it, it's just that they needed modern aircraft and the 35S simply wasn't ready yet (and even now - isn't completely ready either). So they chose the most modern and complete plane they had - the 30MKI which was completely developed and paid for by foreign money.
>>27958727
Su-30SM and Su-30M2 are purchased as a replacement for the Su-27UB and Su-27UBM, ie to the role of two-seat combat capable operational conversion trainer.
>>27955703
>canards
>thrust
>unironically building 4th generation aircraft in 2015
>>27964696
You do know that F-35 is not true 5th gen right?
It's more like some 4+++ thing.
>>27964780
What gen was the Harrier and the F5? They are both 3rd gen or no?
Impressive
Chinese Research and Development truly has no analog anywhere in the world
>>27964780
>You do know that F-35 is not true 5th gen right?
Of all the retarded shit posted on /k/, this is pretty high up there.
