This recent edition of Military History has the cover story of "Was Rommel a Fraud?"
The title of the article, by David Zabecki, is "Rethinking Rommel" and has the eyecatch of "While the German field marshal was undoubtedly a superior tactical commander, his skills didn't carry over into the strategic realm of operations."
So, what are your thoughts on this, /k/?
Military History can suck my German dick
>>27927644
True.
If the Italians hadn't stole the British code he wouldn't have so much success in Africa
>>27927644
I can't think of any specific examples, but Antony Beevor (author of a lot of good WW2 books, he knows his onions) thinks that Rommel and Monty were the two most overrated generals of the war.
I love rommels history but he looks like a slav a lot to me
>>27927644
>"While the German field marshal was undoubtedly a superior tactical commander, his skills didn't carry over into the strategic realm of operations."
Well, that's just... true. Like, there isn't even any debate about this, is there? WW2 historians don't disagree, the evidence is there. It's like that workplace principle, what's it called, being promoted past your competence? The better you get, which Rommel initially was, the more promoted you get, until you get to a spot where the necessary skillsets are different and you don't have them, which would be Rommel at the highest echelons of command.
A "fraud" is a bit too sensationalistic but the core of the argument is alright.
>>27927707
>It's like that workplace principle, what's it called, being promoted past your competence?
The Peter Principle.
>>27927644
Oh shit nigga. David Zabecki is one of my favorite authors.
If he puts a question like that up, its for a very good reason. He certainly knows his shit.
>tfw you just bought pic related
>>27927705
I'd put Patton up there.
Good, but not a war-god so feared the Germans shit themselves when they heard his name.
>>27927644
>This recent edition of Military History has the cover story of "Was Rommel a Fraud?"
pdf / scan pls
>>27927707
Exactly. Rommel was a great general, the problem is that when you take a step above that, how well you can tactically lead your troops isn't of much importance as you work on the strategic level.
Its sort of like making a great carpenter your architect.
He was a busybody micromanager and constantly bothered his subordinates. Very contrary to German doctrine at the time which allowed low-level battlefield commanders a lot of freedom to engage if they saw an opportunity. Excellent at leading men, but a mediocre general when it came to actual general duties.
He should have been a major.
>>27928198
Well, he WAS a great subcommander put in the position of being the overall commander. He did things the way he was used to.
>>27927644
>David Zabecki
>Zabecki
Polish butthurt knows no bounds.
If you want to know about Rommel, I always recommend David Irving's The trail of the fox. covers as much detail of his life as possible. He really was a good General, and a great personality, which he was very careful to create. all other commanders that were dismissed from his staff or worked with him said his methods were flawed. higher casualties than other units, stealing other units bridge building supplies and such. I still think the only reason Monty won over Rommel's skeleton force was that he waited till he had over 5 times Rommel's number and was the last of like 5 British commanders in Africa. Rommel was a really cool guy to read about but he's not Creed level tactical genius.
>>27927729
he would usually leave safety of HQ during operation, leaving things there in hands of his officers, that knew this shit better than him, and go to frontlines to command battalions directly.
This "daring" approach also contributed to legend of Desert Fox
>>27928381
Reading that shit now
thank u based grandma for the /k/ /lit/
>>27928381
what was his apm at starcraft ?
Didn't he make retarded choices like outrunning his supplies all the time?
>>27927644
His book was required reading when I was a USMC 0311 back in the late nineties. Came up with a lot of innovative shit during WWI like cutting down trees near trenches so artillery wouldn't catch the shells and cause splinters, which Syria learned years later when an Israeli spy convinced them that it was a good idea to shade their troops from the sun. There's lots of that shit he put into practical use whether he came up with it or not.
>>27929453
>which Syria learned years later when an Israeli spy convinced them that it was a good idea to shade their troops from the sun
Greetings fellow /pol/ friend.
>>27929401
good heavens pee oh el is leaking again
>>27927644
He's clearly overrated simply because the Brits needed a reason to explain their rather poor showing in Africa for so long. He was a good commander, but he was no Guderian.
>>27929480
It's not even /pol/. It's simple revisionism as a result of cognitive dissonance.
Everyone has preached to them on a daily basis that all Germans were evil Nazi freaks that made Jew soap and bayoneted babies.
Rommel's legacy does not match with the official doctrine of what you're allowed to think about Nazi Germany.
Therefore his legacy must be discredited to stop the cognitive dissonance and keep the official story mainstream.
>>27927644
ow the edge
>>27929504
No, quite a few famed German generals were overhyped postwar. Of course the revisionism against Rommel might be going a bit too far in the other direction, but many commanders who survived the war made a habit of salvaging their own reputations by blaming everything that went wrong on Hitler (see Manstein)
>>27929504
Waitasec I thought the Israelis and Jewish people by and large put Rommel up with von Staufenberg as okay guys because they refused genocidal orders and tried to kill Hitler?
>>27929563
That was Jews 30 or 40 years ago.
The "gibs me dat reparation money oy vey" crowd that /pol/ harps on about has been breeding again.
>Zabecki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines
>yfw if his name wasn't connected to the aid program people wouldn't even know the name over some other flashy memerals
>>27929504
>Rommel's legacy is discredited
>Rommel is probably the most renowned (in every country) Infantry/Armor/Combined Arms General on any side of the war
Kek. Chose one and only one.
>>27929615
I mean it's not like he won any battles or anything. He was a chief of staff.
>>27929504
>wehraboos actually believe this
>>27929653
I didn't say they would succeed or that such a thing is even possible.
But some autistic fucknugget is trying and that's already sad and pathetic enough.
>>27927644
bullshit question
rommel is famous for his tactical exploits not strategic matters
also the africa corps was just a sideshow in comparison to the things happening in russia
>>27929676
He was the man who built up the army almost from dust. Give the bloke some credit.
He was one of the greatest generals the US has known.
>>27929615
There are few men whose qualities of mind and character have impressed me so deeply as those of General Marshall. He is a great American but he is far more than that. In war he was as wise and understanding in counsel as he was resolute in action. In peace he was the architect who planned the restoration of our battered European economy and at the same time laboured tirelessly to establish a system of Western defense. He has always fought victoriously against defeatism, discouragement, and disillusion. Succeeding generations must not be allowed to forget his achievements and his example.
Winston Churchill as quoted in The Age of Man: The Ascent Of Morality (2004) by Jim Bryan
>>27928296
>oh look, someone doesnt consider my teutonic man crush the übermensch of strategy, call the gestapo
>fucking slavs hurr durr
>>27929769
>Wehrabingo
>Things that have never been said by anyone
Go to bed Rabbi, you don't shitpost properly when you're tired.
>>27927706
One of his family members was a General with the Poles
>>27929769
>>27929790
Huh I'm surprised something to do with claiming jewish conspiracy isn't on there.
>>27929686
Ohho look at the jewfag
>>27929906
>>27929790
That's right, the Jews take time out of their day to argue with wehraboos on 4chan. It is essential to their conspiracy that unhygienic reactionists on the Internet are persecuted.
Well yeah, that's true. Robert E. Lee had the same problem. He was tough to beat in individual battles, but he had a weak grasp of strategy. He wasn't able to effectively exploit his victories.
Anybody who had any familiarity with Rommel and World War II history in general beyond the myths and legends already knew this.
>>27929824
Wehraboos are distinct from Naziboos in that they're obsessed with muh superior german engineering and technology rather than muh germanic racial purity. There's overlap, sure, but they're not one and the same.
>>27930006
*superior german military engineering and technology
>>27929979
Close, delusional brainwashed mainstreamists who get their history lessons from Hollyjew movies argue with unhygienic reactionaries on the internet because people who do not subscribe to their myopic black-white morality are meanine-meanie woo-woos and must be stopped from giving opinions because das raciss and stuff.
>>27927644
>Rommel a fraud
Literally a clickbait article header. How you can take someone seriously who posts shit like that I don't know.
>>27929692
>autistic fucknugget
>one of the better researched and unbiased military historians alive
>This article
>This thread
>Heeeeey look at me! Give me attention!
>>27930021
>"Rommel wasn't a good strategist."
>"You're a brainwashed Jew moralist."
Nice arguments you're throwing out, did you get your military history PhD that way?
>>27929504
Dude, we're talking about Rommel purely on the basis of his merits as a military commander. Nobody in here gives a flying fuck about war crimes or ideology. We're discussing strategy and tactics. Get this rancid shit out of here.
>>27929736
He was a logistician. He know what and how much was needed to get men from point A (America) to point B (insert teather name here) with enough of everything they need to fight and win.
Yes, people idolize the cunning stratege or the frontline leader, but both would be nowhere without the shadow man; the logistician that give thems the means to do what they're good at.
>implying you can be bad at strategic level operations
You can only be worse than what your logistics allow for.
The Germans had a major logistical disadvantage in Africa, so they lost.
No amount of leadership could change that.
>>27927644
>>27927716
>If he puts a question like that up
I haven't read the article, but I suspect the "Fraud" bit was from the magazine editors wanting to catch eyes.
My admittedly amateurish view was always that he a) did reckless shit in france and got lucky, then b) did reckless shit in africa and wasn't lucky anymore.
>>27928381
>>27928480
>David Irving
Oh wait, you're serious.
>>>/pol/
Fuck off
>>27928381
Well that's because Creed is space-Caesar to Lord Solar Macharius' space-Alexander the Great.
>Also, since the thread took a turn, this pic is now related (though not to this post.
You guys kinda suck at this whole infiltration thing too.
>>27931396
Fuck off, I just finished The Mare's Nest and it was a damn good read (engineering student here)
Just because something relates to Nazi Germany doesn't mean "hurr durr /pol/" you faggot fuck, how about actually typing out a well thought out reply next time
>>27931401
That cap... The levels of autism are astounding
>JIDF is real
>there's also a Stormfront version of JIDF
All the links he posted are typical of the shitposting that is 80% of Stormfront
You might as well use the "ITT: We are a better ISIS" thread to claim /k/ is a significant influence on ISIS
>>27931438
>literally advocating for a holocaust denier's "book"
>>>/pol/
Begone stormfag. Don't play stupid, you know full well what Irving is about.
>>27927644
>David Zabecki
>>27931517
Ya know how we can tell that you're one of them, posting disinfo? The reek of desperation in that post.
What did he do? Find the flank. Every time. When he couldn't do that because of lack of fuel or the Quattarra Depression he lost. Mediocre opposition also made him look good. As did Churchill's disastrous decision to split the victorious army in two and send half to Greece to be defeated while the other half was too weak to resist the newly-arrived Afrika Korps.
>>27931591
nahh, thanks for the thought though my Race Warrior friend
>>27929507
Heres the attention mommy and daddy never gave you
>>27931517
>JIDF
They're real though? They have a site as well. I don't care about any of this but JIDF is certainly real. Don't know if you mean something else.
>>27931526
OY GEVALT
>>27931526
Just because he's a holocaust denier (according to Wikipedia anyway, there was zero indication of this from the perspective of the reader) doesn't somehow discredit the book, sure maybe he exaggerated their capabilities somewhat but I still found it an interesting read
Also everyone who is posting retarded "muh Jew conspiracy" shit needs to fuck off, it's pretty obvious that the site used "fraud" for attention whoring not out of some anti-Rommel agenda. And yes Rommel is pretty overrated, but so are most famous generals, and he is nowhere near as bad as MacArthur
>>27931517
They have their own twitter. They boast about their operations.
How fucking new are you?
>>27931623
>>27931712
Holy shit, I always assumed JIDF was a meme. Is the Wikipedia stuff about them accurate?
>>27931538
>David Zabecki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHgxOXEQaFU
>>27927723
That's a total myth. Most Germans didn't know who Patton was.
Patton was still an excellent division level commander. He could organize a fighting force and get them fighting faster than almost anyone else. His rapid response to the Ardenne's Offensive was ridiculously quick, especially when compared to other commander's efforts.
His drive across France would have been suicidal had he not been so sure of the German's inability to stop it.
>>27931741
I don't follow this, just know that they exist. Have you never been in an IDF/Israel thread on /k/? Don't know if it's coming from the JIDF but we have some pro-Israeli bots here.
>>27931396
>reading about the german military during world war 2 means you're a nazi
man i just like germany's shit during wwii, i'm not a nazi
>>27931902
Are you sure that's not just the /pol/acks ironically shitposting trying to make da joos look bad?
>>27932171
Different guy here - we've definitely had at least one Jewbot in the past, but it was really obvious
>jewrune filenames
>shitty propaganda images
>responding to literally every post with "go back to /pol/", "fuck off stormfag", or something similar
>threads even less /k/ related than your average stormfag thread
>>27927644
>We need Malta for supplies reasons !
>Well, after all, let's not about Malta, let's rush for Cairo !
>Shit I have no supplies since the Brits still control Malta !
Bestest general of all times.
>>27932225
I still find it mind boggling that the Italians couldn't suppress an island defended by four biplanes and a monitor.
>>27932240
Because the RN wouldn't have sailed out of Alexandria as soon as they got news of an impending invasion of Malta.
>>27931674
You know that Irving has literally been proven as a fraud in a court of law, right?
>>27927644
>David Zabecki
Spotted the untermensch.
>>27930153
JIDF /k/ will eat up anything.
>>27931526
>>27929769
>>27930006
/pol/ > new /k/ desu senpai
>>27932309
>losing a war to untermensch
dont throw rocks if you live in a glass house anon
>>27931396
>>27931401
never looked at the author too closely.Not a stormfag, I read that book back in middle school at the height of my Rommel hero worship. it really and truly did not come across in his writing that he was a holocaust denier. give it a read, it's fucking free. and is an alright biography with allot of detail. just because the man might be silly doesn't mean his work is.
>>27932815
if you don't believe me what about these reviews on the fly leaf. one from Rommel's son.
“A fascinating study of the brilliant Rommel. It enables the reader
to experience the emotions of a warrior in battle.”
general mark w. clark
“I am tremendously impressed. . . A superb character study and a
fine work.” —general matthew b. ridgway
“I myself learned a lot. I am convinced this book will find many
readers and be discussed everywhere.”
manfred rommel, lord mayor of stuttgart
>>27927687
Here here, They can also suck mein german cock
