>SL spoke to the CO and 1SG about doing a "come to Jesus" meeting between him, the NCOs and myself (the PL)
>Say that I suck as a leader and I "dont listen to my NCOs" (which I fucking do that they are making mountains out of molehills)
>Saying that they doubt that I will be able to perform my job competently
>Basically saying that I suck as a warrior (IMHO they are saying I suck... in Darwinian terms since male who isnt a warrior = beta/berrypicker as fuck)
>They say they are still more than willing to work with me
>My NCOs say they brought in the CO because they dont think I was going to listen to them
What do? WTF I am beginning to think the Army is not for me. I thought I just suck like how a regular PL/LT should suck. But they are making it sound like I suck much more.
As I said above they are saying I suck at an evolutionary perspective
>>27844402
You're not being douchey enough. If they have enough confidence to call you out and say this shit to your face, you haven't been yelling loudly enough.
Why were they saying this?
Details, my boy.
It seems you suck more than usual, go get your ass chewed and try to fuck up less at your next post. You're permabitch with this unit.
>>27844402
If all your NCOs are saying you're wrong, and you're saying you're right, you may need to step the fuck back and see that you're wrong.
>>27844402
Seriously chew there asses for jumping chain of command. Are you a god dam commissioned officer in the god dam UNTIED STATES OF AMERICA or a fucking pussy. Why are you not knife handing some lazy pog fag instead of asking a bunch of fags still better then you for help. Unfuck yourself or you don't deserve to be a leader.
My Ssgt had my squad police call route mobile in Ramadi.
My Lt had us routinely turn off our jammers to attempt to set off IEDs.
You must be really fucking awful.
That or your actually decent.
I EASed without giving a fuck because I couldn't stand the whiny pussies I had to be around.
>>27844465
They know better. You should be a facilitator not a dictator, they know their job better than you do.
Your molehills are their mountains, rather than belittling them you should help them scale the adversities of their position.
>>27844442
They say I dont listen. Which is what they say when I go against them. They basically made a mountain of a molehill.
Super paraphrase;
>Hey Sir are you chewing mint gum?
>Nah its strawberry
>You dont listen to your NCOs! Its mint!
It happened maybe once or twice that I didnt heed their counsel. But 80% of the time they are the ones working and I dont have to do jack shit.
>>27844465
I am trying to figure this shit out. Its either I dont see what they see and vice-versa.
They make accusations but cannot provide a specific example of WTF they are talking about, like;
>You dont listen to your NCOs, Sir.
>Ok. When?
>ALL THE TIME.
>Give me one example.
>.....
>>27844517
Your being keked dipshit. Fucking LT pyle. Man up.
>>27844506
>rather than belittling them
YES! Holy shit! They said that, too! They said I was looking down on them. Which I am not. They say its the way I talk to them or some shit.
>>27844550
>They all say I'm doing things wrong and I don't listen to them
>I didn't listen to them, I don't do the things they say
You really are a shitty LT lol
>>27844550
Fucking man up you pussy, they're just NCO's, that went behind your back.
Force them to do some shitty details until they remember who is actually in charge.
>>27844517
Tell them to put aside the rank shit for a second and speak their mind and tell you how to straighten your shit out. Or don't, I dunno, I've never been in the military.
Be clear and concise and try to tell them what you see as your job, and then hear if they have any other expectations.
>>27844480
I am not getting this post. Are you being sarcastic or are you being serious? I am not sure what you want me to do here. Do you want me to knife hand them or?
BTW
>CO said think what they said over and I quote "If you think what they are saying is fabricated then *shrug*"
>>27844480
this. put your NCOs in their place firmly but respectfully and then drill your men until they are too tired to complain. it reaffirms control, builds cohesiveness, refreshes morale, and improves combat readiness
>>27844550
You just said that you let them do all the work and do jack shit.
You're not involved, this is somewhat of a problem when you are supposed to be leading the platoon, not hiding in your office fucking around on govvie computer.
It all boils down to;
>I dont trust them. Because they are NCOs
>They dont trust me, because I am an LT
>>27844568
>Who's actually in charge
The NCO's?
>>27844579
You're a fool.
>>27844593
>>27844593
HOLY MOTHERFUCKER!
THEY ARE SAYING THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE!
They are saying;
>Sir, Let us do our jobs. You dont have to be at the motorpool with the Joes, thats what we are here for.
>95% of the time, Sir, the XO pops his head into the office and looks for you. He does that so much that I think he expects you to be there.
>Look at the other PLs in the Company. They are just in the office most of the time.
BTW
Is this like a normal NCO vs Officer struggle?
>>27844566
But I dont talk down on them. I made it a point to be polite to NCOs
>>27844657
Obviously you're wrong.
>>27844505
>You must be really fucking awful.
>That or your actually decent.
I dont get it.
I would recommend having a discussion with your PSG and 1SG. Figure out where the issue is. If your SL is jumping the PSG to go VFR direct with the fucking 1SG and CO, something is very wrong with that situation.
>>27844402
Fellow LT here, get with your platoon sergeant for these issues. They are trying to play mommy/daddy with you and your platoon sergeant. For issues like these, the platoon sergeant deals out the dole. What is your relationship with your platoon sergeant like?
>>27844677
HOREY SHET! The PSG is on leave!
I dont know if he is tracking this mutiny!
>>27844517
Sometimes you'll have to end up being in charge of a group that really dislikes you, but if you honestly are in the right about this one, then your CO should see this too, maybe you should try and communicate with your NCOs and just ask them what their beef with you is, and why they felt it necessary to jump the chain of command all the way to the CO.
I'm very surprised that these NCOs just jumped straight to the top like that without at least coming to you first, "He wouldn't listen to us if we did" Is NOT a valid justification for such a jump in chain of command, I wouldn't like that one bit, they're suppose to try and work things out with you before jumping up like that.
>>27844702
Our relationship is ok. He just had a baby and I went and to his baby shower/whatever it is last Saturday.
I saw him maybe 40% of the time. He has been running around like crazy/tasked out/on leave. HOWEVER me and my WSL was cool with each other up until he had to leave and this new WSL (former 1st SL) had to take over
Also they are playing Daddy/Daddy. Our Platoon has two Dads.
>>27844710
What sub branch are you btw?
>>27844742
Only 40%? That's your problem right there, you have your junior NCO's, I'm guessing about the same age as you, pulling your leg. You need to get your PSG back in the game, and you both need to be joined to the hip, meeting with him often.
>>27844744
11A (branch detailed, though)
>>27844759
I thought so. Thought I could wrangle these guys up.
Btw its not ALL my NCOs. Its like 5 out of 10 were there.
Maan, fuck this shit.
>>27844759
I think these guys are trying to get me fired.
>>27844402
I got dismissed from OCS for the exact same thing.
>No command presence
>Lack military competence
>lack maturity
And all this other bullshit quite simply because they just dont like you because you're intellectually their superior and they feel threatened. I got told flat out in private it wasnt anything I 'did' but 'who I was' as a person.
>>27844657
Just speaking coherently with other people in the military without swearing constantly or talking about the crudest stuff is sufficient for them to feel you are 'talking down to them'. >>27844435 Is pretty much spot on unfortunately.
Also which branch are you in? That makes a big difference.
Have your PSG hammer that squad leader for jumping the chain of command.
>>27844402
You want my honest opinion? Learn your lane.
The lane of an officer is paperwork and meetings. You are a rubber stamp, that is all.
If you say more than a handful of words to your joes in a week, you are doing it wrong. If a truck needs PMCSed, tell your NCOs at the beginning of the day and leave it alone. If you are telling a Joe to pmcs a truck, sweep a hallway, or straighten their uniform, you are doing it wrong.
Officers plan, NCOs train and supervise, soldiers execute. You should never be outside unless it is critically nessecary, like for an inspection or inventory. If it is routine motor pool Monday, your ass should be firmly in your office. Do paperwork, so assignments in your lane. Talk to the XO and the CO, kiss their ass, do everything you are supposed to do, but if you are going orders to anyone but your platoon sergeant, you are jumping down the chain and ruffling feathers all the way down.
NCOs do nothing all day but talk with one another, and they will cut your ass down all day, all night. The joes WILL hear them, the NCOs will talk just loud enough and often enough. Now you have lost your platoon sergeant, your NCOs and your joes think you are a joke. Good luck getting things done like that.
Figure out what your lane is. If it doesn't involve paperwork, meetings, or sucking the COs dick, think long and hard about whether you are stepping on NCOs toes.
Because here's the thing, when all the sergeants who's have 10-15 years in start bitching to the CO and the 1SG, the CO and the 1SG aren't going to look at these experienced soldiers like they are wrong, they are going to look at your fresh out of college ass as being a prick and an idiot.
>>27844830
>>27844807
Oh good lord you're infantry. This explains everything. Welcome to 4 years of hell until you get tracks.
Fuck your SLs. Make your PSG rape their NCOERs until they fall in line.
>>27844882
>tfw stryker unit
>tfw expensive shit that can get lost out of nowhere and make me pay for it
They got me by the balls on property.
Honestly I considered going officer for the glory of it, then I fucking looked into it. Seems fucking atrocious.
I think I'm just going to do enlisted after college.
>But bruh, dah gubament will pay for ya cuhllege and bouks and free shiet
Yeah, and I still dont want to have arthritis and have gray hairs with juggling military AND fucking college at the same goddamn time.
I'd like to actually have fun on my summers.
Im working towards scholarship IFFFFFF possible.
>>27844938
If you can input an opinion and somehow change my mind about it, PLEASE try.
>>27844863
The thought process of an NCO, ladies and gentlemen
>Officer should go hide in an office and drink coffee and let the NCOs run this shit
>Things inevitably fall apart and go to shit without oversight and accountability
>"Muh chain of command doesnt support me!"
>>27844863
this.
stop putting your dick in their applesauce LT.
nothing good will come of it. The fact that the co is tracking the loss of confidence occurring in your platoon is telling. Get with your PSG and fix this before you go to the 3 shop and never see a rifle again.
>>27844863
>>27844882
I think I rustled some jimmies when I spot check them and actually held them accountable for once.
I blame their past untabbed pussy-ass PL who did nothing all day but sit in his office and didnt say shit.
Like, excuuuse me Sgt because you had to cover down for me one time on hand receipts because you are on profile and the CO decided to do his Cyclic layout while my Platoon has a training event and I want to share the misery my Pvts are experiencing. Its not like you do anything anyways.
yeah and with that he complains
>I cant be doing your job for you Sir
As if thats all you do all the time.
>>27844807
>11A
wtf man
>(branch detailed, though)
that explains a lot. ask to go to bde staff where you belong
>>27845011
>BDE staff
That sounds like a terrible idea. Although, all the good looking females are there. For some reason.
>>27844626
You seem like an extremely level headed, compitent officer.
Enjoy that S shop buddy
>>27844626
You're not supposed to be hands on dumbass. That's what your NCO's are for.
Let them do their job, you handle the paperwork and plans.
>>27845060
Wait. But why? Why would you doom me to become staff?
I thought being level-headed is a good thing.
>>27844807
Sir, go fuck yourself.
Welcome to the Infantry, where we expect you to be a goddamn man and let other people do their job.
You aren't the next fucking Patton, just sit back and let the NCO's show you how the Army works since you're a brand new fucking cherry ass boot and they've all been in for anywhere from 6-19 YEARS
>>27844402
First of all, only a fucking LT would be so god damned retarded as to come on 4chan.org/k/ for leadership advice.
That alone should tell you and anyone else in this thread all they need to know. Fuck off to http://platoonleader.army.mil/ with this shit.
But to parse what I've read already:
It's hard to give a really quality advice to you because you're being pretty vague and you mention that your SLs are too.
>Hey Sir are you chewing mint gum?
>Nah its strawberry
>You dont listen to your NCOs! Its mint!
This metaphor is garbage unless your SLs are literally jumping your shit about chewing gum in which case what the fuck are your joes doing talking to you about gum?
>You dont have to be at the motorpool with the Joes, thats what we are here for.
>Look at the other PLs in the Company. They are just in the office most of the time.
If this is the norm in your unit then you should probably listen to them and fuck off. It doesn't need to be to the office but if everything is working fine in your absence fuck off and if it isn't get your PSG in that ass.
>I saw [PSG] maybe 40% of the time.
You need to get him involved in what's going on and probably need him to crush your SLs for jumping the chain.
>>27845010
This is trolling right? You're some NCO fucking with us by being a characature of everything dumbass new LT's do, right?
Go watch some fucking Ranger Up, you clearly need to see how the world views you.
>>27845070
I am not. I am there to make sure these fucks are doing their jobs (yes NCOs included) Like PMCSing them shits based on the TM. Maybe help the struggling dude with the tarps.
Like I am not asking to drive them strykers dude. I just want to be with my platoon for better or worse.
>>27844402
>This post
>pic related
>>27845152
THAT ISN'T YOUR JOB. THAT'S YOUR NCO'S JOB
>>27844402
yeah you probably should kill yourself if those worthless skinsacks we call army members are telling you you suck.
>>27844402
OP I found you picture on DOD website
>>27845093
"Fucking boot, you should us NCOs be in charge, dammit!"
>Sir, we lost a Stryker...somehow, so here's a statement of charges worth $80M
>Half the platoon was arrested for DUIs last night, the other half is in jail for beating their wives
>NCO's raped every female on post
>>27845114
>If this is the norm in your unit then you should probably listen to them and fuck off.
No. Fuck that. If its working fine then why would you mind IF I AM HERE LOOKING AT THE SHIT I AM SIGNED/RESPONSIBLE FOR!?!?!
They want me to be the poindexter who sits in the office all day not saying shit while they do whatever the fuck they want to do.
>>27844626
It's not turning wrenches man, it's just being present. Supervise and Refine, spot checks. You can hide most of it as shooting the shit and just talking to guys. If any issues come up, talk to your PSG or an NCO and have them take care of it.
>>27844912
Hand receipt it down to the Operator level, man. Didn't they teach you that shit at BOLC?
>>27845072
The inevitable fate of all officers is staff for most of your career.
>>27845152
There's a difference between "being with your platoon" and "being that LT who is way too hands on and needs to go away"
>>27845180
Who is watching the NCOs to make sure they are doing their job? Who is responsible for what the Platoon does and fails to do?
Who is signed for millions of dollars in military equipment?
Whose career is in the line?
BTW
Before it gets misconstrued I dont get my hands dirty and stick my finger in their chili and tell them HOW to do their job. I am there to supervise and refine.
>>27845214
>Hand receipt it down to the Operator level, man. Didn't they teach you that shit at BOLC?
I did. But when that FLIPL comes flying its still my ass
>>27845194
Because I'd they aren't an officer they're fucking worthless, right? But hey, I'm just a tabbed E5 with a college degree, what the fuck do I know that you don't sir?
Don't get me wrong, I've had officers I'd die for. No questions asked.
But 90% of them are chucklefucks who are the reason shit goes wrong.
>>27845152
>>27845199
If serious you need to change your ways because your PSG isn't going to be your friend very long and probably only still is because he isn't seeing you fucking up as badly as you are.
If troll 10/10 you got me. The shit about helping with the tarps got me good.
Either way, repost this on http://platoonleader.army.mil/ because it's either intentionally or unintentionally hilarious.
>>27845222
>>27845231
So what this comes down to is that you have absolutely no trust in your platoon. Which is a problem.
What unit are you at?
>>27845240
>Because I'd they aren't an officer they're fucking worthless, right?
Why do NCOs think this? Do they have some inferiority complex? Nobody in the Officer world thinks that. Or at least I have never met anyone who does. I think of them as business partners who will help the Platoon out.
They said that about me too saying I talk down on them.
>>27845255
Glad to see I'm not the only one getting this vibe.
>>27845260
>What unit are you at?
A unit you dont want to be in. Also >>27844599
My motto in life is; Trust but verify.
>>27845255
That site has too much kool aid on it.
Also you want me to just "trust" my shit to my NCOs. Its like telling me to trust my neighbors and never lock my doors. Its not like I am expecting to get robbed, I just want to be ready if somebody does think about robbing me.
The tarps thing is just being a decent human being. Fucking Pvt snazzle-fuck is about to fall off, why not help him the fuck out? Its not a big deal its just a tarp.
Is this like a normal NCO to Officer problem? I am beginning to think it is.
OP I suggest you call a company formation and execute one of your NCOs publicly
that'll teach the rest to fall in line
>>27844953
orrr you could join the air force, fly jets, and be in charge of nobody until you're a mid-level captain.
>>27845295
is this your first job where you have been management? or been under management?
>>27845262
>Why do NCOs think this? Do they have some inferiority complex? Nobody in the Officer world thinks that
From the enlisted world....absolutely 100% YES. Most NCO's have a inferiority complex as deep as the Marianas trench and a chip on their soldier the size of the moon. Usually corresponds to how many ex-wives they have for some reason.
Now most officers arent that much better but NCOs are always bitching and whining about officers doing the bare minimum accountability when at the same time 99% of the time they are doing some shady shit that Os really should know about.
>>27845337
No its not, if I were a civilian I would have more control.
>Oh you dont like how I run my restaurant? Fuck you, get your shit, and GTFO you're fired.
>>27845313
Lol'd
>>27845265
Gotta be, really well done too. Can't even be mad at a troll of this quality.
>>27844626
That exactly describes being a geologist or engineer at a mine relative to the shift boss & miners.
>>27845391
Difference is; in that case its more black and white.
As a PL its more of a gray area. Its more of an art than a science.
>>27845318
Eh, to be REALLY honest, I was totally fucking Gung Ho for USAF and was into doing the whole academy stuff while I was but a youngin in Civil Air Patrol. Like, I was about to do some major shit that would have easily gotten me the spot. Sadly though, aeronautics just weren't my thing, but it still does fascinate me. I have a shitload of airplane books and posters and shit. It's not that it doesn't bore me to death, but rather just GETTING there. I mean yeah I could wait till mid level captain, or done Academy but neither sound appealing to me. Thinking of infantry in USMC, cuz whole family line is spread throughout the branches
>>27845222
EVERYONES. You literally have no fucking faith in your entire unit which shows you have FAILED as a fucking leader. Your so worried about your own swinging dick that you fail to realize these are god damn Adults who are also worried about THEIR own asses and are trying to accomplish their damn job. Instead they have YOU coming in and micromanaging the fuck out of them and somehow trying to implicate that if they fuck up, they won't be sharing a punishment and somehow get off scot-free.
>>27845295
Your NCO corp is your damn leadership corp for a reason. They are there to ensure proper adherence to manuals, maintenance, and values. You continuously showing no trust or faith in them only undermines their authority to a higher level and makes those under them also show no trust or faith in them and causes a even worse working environment.
ITT I learned that Officers are lower on the totem pole than privates.
Now I'm DEFINITELY enlisting.
>>27845371
I've shared this thread with a couple people from my company. Gotten some pretty good reactions
>>27845421
This post gave me a motto boner
>>27845010
Except you "sharing your pvts misery" is literally not your job. Your job is to do inventories and paperwork. This isn't saving private Ryan, you aren't Tom Hanks. Get over it. If you want to do grunt shit, be a grunt. If you want people to salute you and suck your dick, do your fucking job.
Your job is literally paperwork and inventories and meetings. You aren't a grunt, you arent an NCO, if you are doing something that any of the fifty or more people under your command can do, then what the fuck is your purpose?
Do your inventories, stroke the commander off, get your promotion. If you dont like that life then be an enlisted. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
>>27845427
If you're joining to do paperwork and move pieces around (kind of like bussiness management), go O
If you're joining to kick doors in, be the one executing stuff, and leading from the front, go E
If you're doing anything but a combat job, go O
>>27845421
>Instead they have YOU coming in and micromanaging the fuck out of them
I am not there to tell them HOW to do their job but I am there to WATCH everyone in my element do their job. I have given them so much wiggle room to do their own thing its not even fair.
I am not just watching for my swinging dick. The CO is signed for this shit and the BC and so on and so forth.
>>27845427
Oh definitely. In this country at least. No more Esprit de Corps
>>27845450
I was mostly joking, but thanks for the advice.
>>27844626
>MY NCOS ARE SAYING I DONT LISTEN
>THEY TELL ME NOT TO MICRO MANAGE THEM
>THEN I WALK AROUND AND MICRO MANAGE EVERYONE
man you are a fucking idiot
if they don't want you on their back let them do their thing
>>27845461
How the fuck is being present in the motor pool "micromanaging"? Do you even know what that word means?
The more I talk to you guys and think about this. The clearer picture I get. I think I know what the fuck is causing all this riff-raff and its totally unrelated to all this.
>>27845411
just saying it's kinda great being a 1st Lt with flight pay and all i'm responsible for is myself.
and employing a 54 million dollar jet fighter.
>>27845438
i think there is something to be said for going through what your troops do so you can understand their struggles/whatever. but that's really a "i just got my shop/platoon/whatever a Lt's in charge of in the army and i want to try to gain a bit of credibility" thing, not a daily thing.
because if you're doing that, you're not showing faith in your NCO's who've probably been doing the job for like 10-15 years or whatever.
wandering around and inspecting workspaces like once a week or two should be fine if you trust that NCO. i'd be all up in that SL's chili since he jumped the chain though.
I think its the spot-checks that has been rustling their jimmies. I really think it is. Like this morning this squad leader and his team leader ducked out of PT and I asked them where they were at and they said they went to the gym. Which is cool and all but I was at that gym and I didnt see them there.
Hmmmm
>>27845461
>implying most NCOs left to their own devices are just as shiftless, lazy, and exploitative as shitbrick boots
>only with the power to make others do their work for them
And then there's reality, anon
>>27845485
Im defenitly not saying it has MAJOR perks dude
>Fly in either Million dollar Sky-Tesla
or
>A bulletproof tub that showers fucking death
-THE PAY OHMUHGUD
-Freewill
-Dem Rank
Basicly the rich yung nigga life
>>27845476
Please do tell, oh world-weary and well seasoned Lieutenant.
>>27845428
kek, I'm hoping Ricky comes in here, he'll take the bait hook, line, and sinker.
>>27845534
>>27845513
Again, I blame that tabless PL they had before me who let them do whatever the fuck they wanted to do. And now I actually care about the well being of the Platoon they are coming after me with all this bullshit.
>>27844402
Summing this thread up for non-milfags
>Mil is joke
>HUGE WASTE OF TAX PAYERS $$$
>GROSS INCOMPETENCE ALL AROUND
>A FEW SMART HONEST MEN ARE CHAINED TO A BUNCH OF LOW LIFES
Random person: Gee, Anon if you love guns so much, why didn't you join the army?
>Officer in the US ARMY comes to 4chan for advice.
Thanks for confirming what most of us REAL Freedom defenders already know.
>>27844402
https://www.military1.com/army/article/647-dont-be-a-douche-15-rules-to-effectively-lead-a-platoon
Jesus, OP. You're a Soldier, not a bitch. You're an officer, not a Joe. Someone gave you a degree at some point, use those skills to better your job. Start by reading the basics of leadership. Get some Sun Tzu and Machiavelli under your belt to help with both your military comprehension and negotiating your social circles. Manage your Joes, your NCOs, and your leaders. You're a junior officer, aka middle management. This is exactly what you should be doing right now. You're a father to your platoon, but a distant father, the kind that has a job with lots of overtime so your love is distant rather than pressing. What does this mean? You don't play ball with the kids. You don't show up for every birthday. You don't call the school when there's a bully. But you damn well make sure they know you have their backs. You don't let them get away with dishonesty, but you don't let it get higher. Keep it in house, and protect them from those out of the house. Trust your NCOs to manage them like big brothers. Speak little, but make what you say important and heard.
>>27845568
>let them do whatever the fuck they wanted to do. And now I actually care about the well being of the Platoon
Was the previous PL relieved of his command?
Did the same platoon magically lose major equipment?
Did the same platoon have large amount of people get DUI's, Beat their wives, kill a hooker?
Did the same platoon have such gross negligence that it was sidelined for training/reevaluation for not adhering to protocol or practices?
Oh wait... none of those happened under the previous leadership.... THEN OBVIOUSLY IT WAS FUCKING WORKING. Now they went from as Platoon that was functioning and meeting their required checks in the block to "suddenly we are drool slobbering retards and can't do anything without LT, only through his watchful eyes can we be a good platton."
One more thing. Read this book.
"To be a combat leader in the profession of arms is the most noble, deadly, and exciting occupation going. Its rewards are few, but if, at the end of the day, his men say, "He's a good man," those few words make a pretty good final epitaph for a war fighter." - David Hackworth.
>>27845568
Coming into this thread and you keep referring to the tables platoon leader who came before you. You keep putting him down, like you are gods gift to the military. Whether you have a Ranger tab or not, you shouldn't view your peers like that, you are canabalising your own fucking officer corps doing that. You are trying to bring others down instead of trying to bring yourself up. Quit doing that. Quit looking down on others and use the will that got you that tab to drag them up, that will speak volumes for you.
Further, you can't just walk into a unit and immediately say "this is how things are going to be now, I know literally everything, and I am changing it ALL NOW". You are alienating every soldier and NCO under you.
Even if you really are THAT egoristical and self centered, then for a purely self serving reason, stop sticking your dick in your NCOs corn flakes. Because they are just going to tear you down over and over again in private. When the CO and 1SG come looking for the reason your platoon is fucked up and EVERY SINGLE PERSON in your platoon, including your platoon sergeant, say its you, well, your commander is going to think you are a fuck up.
>>27845605
>Was the previous PL relieved of his command?
Close. But no. The motherfucker cried in front of the BC
>Did the same platoon magically lose major equipment?
Lots of little equipment
>Did the same platoon have large amount of people get DUI's, Beat their wives, kill a hooker?
We had the only DUI in the Company during his rule. The next two, no.
>Did the same platoon have such gross negligence that it was sidelined for training/reevaluation for not adhering to protocol or practices?
Nope
>checks in the block
Fuck you. And everyone who thinks like you. I fucking hate you already.
>>27845618
>"To be a combat leader in the profession of arms is the most noble, deadly, and exciting occupation going. Its rewards are few, but if, at the end of the day, his men say, "He's a good man," those few words make a pretty good final epitaph for a war fighter." - David Hackworth.
Just because he said it does not mean he is right. Genghis Khan was not a "good man" when motherfuckers talk about him they say he was a badass and that he was a "good warrior"
>>27845642
>checks in the block
>Fuck you.
Hahaha are you in for a sad career. Welcome to every branch and everything the Military has changed too.
>>27845199
Not military, but I've been a manager and study leadership. From the outside, it sounds like you're mixed up about what your job is. You don't manage equipment or even what people do. That's your subordinates' jobs. Your job is managing people.
You need to call in your sgt. Having a kid is a major time suck but he's got a job to do and part of it is getting thinks straightened out with his subordinates.
Your job is to establish what needs to be accomplished vs what's bullshit. Then set goals for your NCOs and let them figure out how to accomplish them. If they need something, help them get it. If someone is incompetent or malicious, then eliminate him.
Constantly checking up on people is sending the tacit message that you don't trust them. You're undermining their authority with THEIR people, so of course they'll do the same to you.
Management is about figuring out what someone is good for, putting them in a position where their strengths work for you and their weaknesses are irrelevant, and then working to find and bring into your service great people. The common thread is PEOPLE-- not the details of what they're doing.
I'm sure you need that, too, at least in combat, but it sounds like this is routine stuff that shouldn't require your overt, direct involvement. Trust your people. Check up on them quietly, and then privately have your sgt deal with problems.
Now with all that said, you've dug yourself deep into a hole. You and your sgt will have to figure out how to unfuck this, because if they've gone over your head then either they don't respect you or they think you're an incompetent, or they've already been working to undermine you quietly and it hasn't worked. Or some combination thereof.
Finally, leadership is as much about being someone as it is doing something. That may be unfair in a cosmic sense, but it's true. You need to develop that in a fucking big hurry.
>>27845731
>Or some combination thereof.
Thats a possibility, not even going to lie. And them and you implying that I am incompetent... again, I am taking that shit to heart as my OP said they are insulting me at an evolutionary level saying I am not an effective Alpha male/warrior
>>27845756
Are you autistic?
Please tell me you aren't 25th ID...
>>27845798
A male who is useless in the battlefield cannot mate, and a male who cannot mate and pass on his genes is an evolutionary failure.
Dont believe me? What is the underlying currency in all human interactions? Yep, its violence.
>>27845356
You clearly have never managed seasoned professionals. In the private sector you'd just be fired faster.
Does your colonel constantly come in to supervise your staff meetings? It's your CO's ads on the line, too, so how does he manage you? Why isn't he spending all his time inspecting your team?
You can check up on things without telling people you are. And if something is wrong, keep your mouth shut and then talk to your Sgt to fix it.
>>27845656
Are you OP?
Cuz if you are, man the fuck up and apologize. You're a fucking officer, apologize for not listening/being receptive/whatever the fuck these shitheads are complaining about. Listen to what they say. Ask what they want and fucking make sure the communication is clear. It doesn't hurt to fucking ask twice to be clear, because its better to ask questions so you know what the fuck is going on and let them do their job and either fuck up or do it properly. If you keep asking questions during the tasks, it may look to you like a confirmation, but to them it looks like you're looking for a reason to not trust them.
A very wise and salty CWO once told me, "NCM's are the boot's Mothers. They live with the children and are who spend the most time with them and often give a twist of the ear. Officers are the fathers, they might not always be there and they control how the family lives and make the final decision and give the harsher punishments. However, the Mother has the ear of the Father, and both the Mother and Father support the kid."
There is a reason Senior NCM's exist.
>>27845656
And that's why you're on 4chan, missing the point instead of learning from those who have gone before you.
Hi LT, shitbag E4 here. I don't have my DD214 printed out so believe me at your own risk.
The secret that I've noticed in the 2 Platoon leaders I've had (in the infantry, so it might be different), is that they ALWAYS listen to their NCOs. They don't run the PLT, the PSG does, with the WSL close on his heels. If you don't feel 100% comfortable with something (motherfucking land-nav for example), don't be afraid to ask among the lower enlisted for who knows their shit. Learn from EVERYTHING.
Don't buddy-buddy with the CO, you'll just look like a bootlicker. build a hooch with a SL and take the first watch. Actually stay awake. Check on your guys in the night, and do it well. Don't half-ass it. Don't be a boy-scout, but do the right thing for your guys. If it's 30 degrees but the CO says "NO WAFFLE TOPS >:((((( ", don't freak out when a few guys throw them on anyways.
Also. be a fucking PT STUD. I'm a shitbag but I've got a 265 PT score. We expect officers to be scoring at least 300+, but maybe that's an infantry thing.
>>27845826
>A male who is useless in the battlefield cannot mate, and a male who cannot mate and pass on his genes is an evolutionary failure.
Holy shit, OP. You should probably start reading /his/ too. Males who make profession of arms are not necessarily the most suitable for passing down genes, specifically because they take higher risks than those who do not. Being a great soldier does not mean one is a great mate. If fact, while you're out busy being the "better male" in some forgotten failed state, Jodi is at home being the reproductive male with your wifey.
>>27845568
>Ranger Tab
>On an officer
Literally means nothing to an enlistedman. What matters is a deployment patch/CIB
Look at it from my perspective LT.
>Man, the LT doesn't give a fuck about us.
>Yeah. At least he has a ranger tab though.
Can you see where I might not give a shit?
>>27845879
inb4 OP ignore this great advice
>>27845922
TFW you wanted to be an officer for a while, but your dreams were crushed when you realized you FUCKING HATED the military and EVERYTHING IN IT.
I was the dude the LT went to when we needed to do land-nav for our lanes though. He put me in for an AAM because I did pretty well, which was nice. Now I'm his radioman.
>>27845879
>If it's 30 degrees but the CO says "NO WAFFLE TOPS >:((((( ", don't freak out when a few guys throw them on anyways.
taking this one step further, if your guys are out of sight, out of mind, then don't just ignore those breaking the rule, tell them they can break it within the limits of your OP or whatever exercise you're on. If they catch shit from higher, go to bat, take the lumps, and don't let them get shit for just trying to stay warm. And if you don't do that, then make sure you go freeze with them. Make sure they see it. Never bitch down, always bitch up-- don't ever tell them higher is clueless, but occasionally, quietly let sanity prevail. They'll get the point that you're on their side even with your rank obligations.
>>27845911
The problem isn't his stupid mating theories. The problem is that every time someone gives him good advice, it sets off his small penis complex.
>>27845978
Like a true shitbag LT
>>27844830
>because you're intellectually their superior and they feel threatened
Hahaha
>>27845978
True, but having a small dick doesn't matter if you know how to truly use your mouth... Point being that the type of logic he was expressing in the bio-evolution comment was the same flawed logic that's gotten him into trouble.
Learn a variety of skills and employ them in platoon management. Listen, listen, listen. I did 2 tours in Iraq, served with a stellar fucking unit that received high awards for performance, met awesome leaders, and sadly saw the consequences for stupid officers too busy with career management than with managing their troops or battlefield responsibilities. Pic related. OP, you think getting your ass chewed out sucks? Imagine getting half your platoon wiped out. Because it fucking happens.
>>27845954
>People work better if they think they're cared for
HOLY FUCKING SHIT?!?!?! WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED.
But for real dude. We notice everything. If your ruck is light as shit, we notice. If your guys aren't getting fed, we notice. If your guys run out of water, we notice.
Believe me, having the E4s and E5s on your side will literally never fail you.
Are you going to make dumbass mistakes?
Fuck yeah you are.
Should you always always always be acting in the best interest of your guys AND COMMUNICATE IT?
FUCK YEAH.
Because when the LT puts in actual work, we notice.
A good LT can push forward a PLT when they're ready to take a break.
A shit LT can break a PLT when they want to push forward.
You sound like a shit LT OP. You've literally been in the military fewer years than I have and you're resting on your laurels.
It reminds me of an old joke.
>What's the difference between a PFC and a 2LT?
>The PFC's been promoted once.
>>27845568
>Muh Tab
I see it now. New LT with his set so far up his ass from Ranger School that he's not willing to ask around others for help or advice. And he's not willing to sit down and talk with NCOs because they don't have tabs either and if you don't have a tab don't talk to me.
Congratulations, you embraced the suck for a month but it's obvious you can't do your job.
Since you mentioned Strykers, and just by how fucked up you are, I'm willing to be you are either 2 or 3 CR. Which explains ever more.
>>27845010
>untabbed
hooooooooooooly shit he is leaning on his black and gold, abandon thread
This will fix your problem.
1. Platoon PT 7 mile Death Runs twice a week.
2. If any Joes fall out, redo the run on Saturday morning, with that Joe's NCO.
3. If an NCO falls out more then once, NJP him.
4. Cancel Holiday leave for fat asses who fall out three times in a row.
5. Tell your platoon "You are grown ass men, if you don't want to be here. Leave your ID card on top of your issued gear, I won't stop you (maybe add the PSG won't either after talking to him.)"
You might not be perfect, but if you got NCOs jumping rank, you need to talk to your Senior Sargents and get this NCO sewing circle turned into a E-2 sewing circle.
>>27845222
>dont get my hands dirty and stick my finger in their chili and tell them HOW to do their job
thats exactly what youve been describing yourself as doing this whole thread, in addition to turning off your trip and badmouthing NCOs
are you that guy who was here, maybe 6 months back, posted his RS grad pic and bitched about how his CO wanted to go out with him for a beer?
>>27845408
what is an assertion fallacy, alex?
>>27845566
I'll check the dubs hook, line, and sinker.
>>27845581
>REAL Freedom defenders
captain planet is that you?
>>27846103
This isn't some disney channel tv movie about hardening up some rag-tag outfit.
All that would do is have literally everyone involved in getting shit done (E4s-6s) hate you in every way. Since E-6s tend to be things like readiness NCOs and Training NCOs, don't expect to ever go to any school again after this. Your paperwork is going to get lost so fucking hard it's not even funny.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdozkeNqNQk
When everyone under you is trying to tell you you're wrong, maybe there's a hint to be taken, and acting like a hardass is just going to get E4s like me to laugh at you because
>lol 4 months left in the army and dead-man's profile
What exactly are you going to do to me?
>>27845656
This sticks in my craw. I was nothing special, just a faceless mechanized infantryman, but this really rustled my jimmies. Excellent trolling if you are a troll.
My PL was very proficient at his job but a terrible human being and his actions have had a lasting deleterious effect on me and at least another guy from the platoon.
My PSG was just as technically and tactically proficient, but to this day stays in touch with a large part of his platoon in Iraq, including me, and we've been CONUS for a decade.
>TL;DR? Fuck you, Sir. Suck my dick.
>>27846157
>Your paperwork is going to get lost so fucking hard it's not even funny.
He's been gone an hour and a half, but in keeping with your post: youtube.com/watch?v=cgMxmCMb_WA
>>27846157
It worked for me as a PL and Co CO.
>don't expect to ever go to any school again after this
1/2 of OPs NCOs jumped rank to cry about him, do you think school slots are coming his way with that shit going on.
>acting like a hardass is just going to get E4s like me to laugh at you because
I was an E4, before being an O, I know all about 1st enlistment/high school 2.0 and the "When I get out..." bullshit.
>What exactly are you going to do to me?
Get you admin separated for being weak & toxic, you don't get Post 9-11 GI Bill, have to fill out awkward VA paperwork until you die. This 1st enlistment NCOs know more then O-1/2 is preposterous when you got green to gold and 11b guys coming back as O-1s after years of broken time in college milking the Post 9/11 and fucking bitches after showing them their PH.
Fuck the never-seen Iraq or AF babies, I am not mad, I just know how puerile anyone who who thinks 21 year old with 3 years military is more competent then a 23 year old who finished college where no one yelled at him if he wanted to quit.
>>27846241
Not to mention my abilities as an E4 helping out with data entry.
>hey sir, looks like your CRM qualifications are out of date.
>and the SERE course on ALMS that the CO wants everyone to do, guess you've got to do that again.
Must have been a glitch in the system sir.
Now I've got to go nurse my back injury. Being on profile sucks.
>>27846269
Green to gold officers are totally different. You and I both know that. I took it to mean an officer straight out of ROTC attempting that, which I've seen attempted, but never successfully.
And yeah, I've never deployed. I dont claim to have. It's something I regret pretty hard, but as of right now there's not too much I can do about it.
My last CO was an absolute asshole so maybe I'm expressing some angst relating to officers in general, but I'm sure you know that it is detrimental for any officers to not have the NCOs on their side.
>>27846269
>Get you admin separated for being weak & toxic, you don't get Post 9-11 GI Bill, have to fill out awkward VA paperwork until you die.
Thanks for being the toxic kind of "leader" that kills moral. Fuck you if you're taking away benefits Joes earned like the GI Bill, or fucking them out of VA medical they might need just because they don't conform to your ideal.
>>>27846157
The squad leaders involved might legitimately not jumped chain. When I was in (pic related), this is the sort of thing that might have come up while routinely discussing professional development with the First Sergeant.
>I was an E4, before being an O, I know all about 1st enlistment/high school 2.0 and the "When I get out..." bullshit.
What are you referencing? I was only ever enlisted and never encountered this before FIGMO. I'm asking sincerely.
>Get you admin separated
You were a Specialist. You know hawkeye will do the bare minimum to avoid the doomsday scenario you described. That and he's short, and might be in med hold judging by the sound of it.
>This 1st enlistment NCOs know more then O-1/2 is preposterous when you got green to gold and 11b guys coming back as officers
I've gotta give you that, Sir.
>Post 9/11
My brain was actually too injured for me to be able to go back to school. Voc rehab also denied me with the line of reasoning "lol you've got NEETbux fuck off." Always chapped my ass a little bit, but I guess the voc rehab people had a point.
>fucking bitches after showing them their PH
that's a little seedy for my tastes, but I'm a prude and happy for you if it worked well. Maybe I should have tried, but literally being autistic meant mil/veteran status never got me anywhere, so I generally keep my mouth shut about it. Last time it came up was a while ago. A cop asked about my disabled vet plates after stopping me for a headlight being out.
>Fuck the never-seen Iraq or AF babies, I am not mad, I just know how puerile anyone who who thinks 21 year old with 3 years military is more competent then a 23 year old who finished college where no one yelled at him if he wanted to quit.
I mean, I'd argue that a Pointer is more competent than a lot of Joes, but then again academy cadets get yelled at. I have no idea how to judge ROTC and OCS officers against the average Specialist, or if its a measurement worth making.
Release all your Joes at 1300 on a fucking Tuesday next time they give you any shit.
Sub consciously encourage heavy drinking. That'll learn those crusty fuck NCOs.
>>27846278
I'm going to hit the hay momentarily, but I hope this thread is up in the morning. You're the only other veteran on this board that wasn't an officer, Marine, or Delta shooter.
After I got hurt and was the training room guy, I actually ran shit really smoothly so as to keep people off my ass, especially as a broke dick. Between that and bicycling to work no one harassed me even though I was barred from PT.
You didn't miss out by not seeing Southwest Asia
>>27846319
Actually I don't have a profile right now, I'm actually in good shape.
But I was speaking in that case more as the stereotypical e4 shitbird. Because they know how to game the system and find the perfect injury to get them out of whatever they want.
I've got friends like that, but I haven't gone that far.
>>27846304
>Blah Blah Blah, I've never deployed, It's something I regret pretty hard, Blah Blah Blah,
Shut the fuck up and join the YPG or something, this "would'a could'a should'a" is self-pity at its worst.
>>27846336
Night man.
My body is pretty beaten up (as is everyone else's) but I guess I haven't made any sort of claim because I don't really want to get treatment that I don't deserve. I can still function and do my job, so why sham out and pass my load on to someone else.
Maybe it's the one non-shitty trait left in me.
And I don't envy you for southwest Asia. Not too much I can say I guess.
>>27846355
>I wish I could've deployed with my friends and shared the experience instead of missing it by 2 months
Doesn't really equate to me going to volunteer for a group whose language I don't speak and culture I don't understand.
Kinda a falacy there.
Officer's have 3 priorities that they need to balance.
The mission.
The Troops.
Themselves.
The army wants officers that prioritize Mission,Troops,Self.
Most officer's are Mission, Self, Troops.
Troops love officers that are Troops, Mission, Self.
But look down on and disregard Troops, Self, Mission.
You, you're the worst. You value Self, Mission, Troops.
>I signed for it, im liable for it...
>Trust but verify...
Watching them work isn't verifying. It's smothering.
Get someone you trust to do the verification for you.
Like your PSG.
>>27846312
>Fuck you if you're taking away benefits Joes earned like the GI Bill
Why the fuck should someone get GIB if they can't do their fucking job right? It isn't like they got their balls blown off or got heat stroke, they just can't keep up in a run or do their job who cares?
Do you think any private employer would keep you around if couldn't do your job and bitched all day? Fuck anyone hiding behind cynicism, the "Sorry I am Stupid" and complacency excuses. If they are 11b they need to walk the fuck away and go push carts at Walmart where they fucking belong.
>>27846363
>Doesn't really equate
Yes it does, you get to go shoot assholes next people you never meet before training and had no choice in being put alongside.
Just calling it like it is.
>>27846358
If I were you, then I would self advocate regarding any part of your body that the Big Green Machine broke. Do it now or regret it later.
>>27846401
The thrust of your post is right, but I've seen too many shitheads get benefits and too many good guys get shit out.
>>27846401
>Why the fuck should someone get GIB if they can't do their fucking job right?
>they just can't keep up in a run
Some of the best soldiers I knew had troubles with speed running, much less those stupid-ass death runs you were bragging about. Turns out that a PT score is not the make and measure of a man, yet to often good soldiers and even good NCOs are beaten down by constant and often inappropriate PT and remedial exercises that don't allow them to heal, don't learn about proper nutrition and diet, actively discouraged from seeking medical attention for legitimate injuries, and generally demoralized for being constantly called a shitbag, denied promotions or opportunities, and having to work twice as hard to overcome their perceived lack of value.
>or can't do their job who cares?
You should, for one. You should be finding out why they can't do their job. What the issue is that prevents them from being able to do it. Maybe there are come really deep leadership issues in the ranks that no one is talking about for fear of reprisal, Maybe seeing how command treats those who speak negatively discourages soldiers who have legitimate grievances? Maybe they were never properly trained on the tasks in question in the first place and their current supervisors aren't helping to remedy that?
But it's so much easier to just pick new fruit off the vine instead.
>>27846427
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hoUkh1wpxxg
order them to suck your cock.
I saw a video about it once
>>27846478
That only works for the Russians.
And you'd have to be an NCO.
>>27846449
>a PT score is not the make and measure of a man
Getting separated for a single fail is something I have never seen, but 3 fails after remediation over 4 months is enough for me. It isn't something a nice guy would do, kicking a guy out because he can't run fast, but this isn't fucking high school. There are guy out there with peg legs doing 5 milers, they can do the job, if someone can't meet a minimum standard after a couple months weekend attention wtf do you want me to say? Keep them in the unit because "they are good"? No, send them home, this is the fucking Army, its about kill people who will probably try to kill us back, fuck anyone who can't meet the standard.
>>27846492
It's cool m8. I don't know you from Adam so I won't second guess your personnel evaluations.
Just saying I've met this attitude before.
>>27846492
I've kinda gotta side with the hard ass. One of my legs is a piece of shit, but I still was able to get done what needed doing. As soon as I couldn't, Uncle sent me packing. Getting called useless was a blow to my ego, but it was best for those around me, as per >>27846532
I haven't read a great bait thread like this in a long time. I mean, I really hope this is bait. It smells like a bucket of chum, and is just believable enough.
If not bait, well, you're already fucked, OP, enjoy your new assignment.
>>27844517
What did your Co. say are you compartment in his eyes. You probably just need to get out of the army if all of your Nco think your a fuck up you probably are.
>>27845214
This is all you need to read Lt.
>>27844402
Sir. You're an LT which means you're automatically an idiot.
Accept it sir. Embrace your incompetence. A specialist has been promoted more times than you.
So basically an ideal PL, if we follow all the advice ITT is;
>Someone who stays in the office
>NEVER putting his 2 cents in even what the NCOs want to do is seriously fucked up and against regs
>Who folds under NCOs "complains" oh Im sorry "concerns" and has no backbone to say No.
>>27845911
I dont know what book you are reading but you are wrong.
Do you know the reason why the Alphas get to eat and mate first? One because they will kill the Betas if they try to do anything about it. But also the organization/system expects him to run to danger since he is well fed and all.
Thats why he gets to mate first because his genes are deemed valuable and that he dies first (the whole facing danger and all)
>>27847440
The ideal LT:
Takes advice when he asks for it and is given it
Isn't a little bitch who twists what other people said to him when he fucking asks for it
Is willing to accept advice and change his ways instead of being a stubborn little bitch and crying that he isn't getting the ego boost he was hoping for
Understanding that his NCOs, especially his platoon sergeant, should be his most trusted advisors and closest battle buddies and shouldn't be be belittled as if this is the year 1700 and the concept of an officer being inherently superior is still a thing
Doesn't put down the platoon leader that came before him like a little catty bitch gossiping at the coffee pot.
Understands the relationship between his joes, his NCOs and himself, and where exactly he fits into that.
Doesn't put his inventories and duties onto his NCOs because he has "better" things to do than his fucking job and ensuring his commander accomplishes his duties.
If he TRULY feels like his NCOs are out of line reaches deep down and finds his goddamn balls and pulls rank, while understanding the risk in that move, that if he IS being a prick that his NCOs will talk shit about him, his joes will think he is a joke, and his commander will think of him as a fuck up.
Finally, the ideal platoon leader doesn't brag about his Ranger tab, he never even mentions it. Because every single one of your joes couldn't give less of a shit. They don't give one, no one does.
>>27847452
Oh yeah, and another thing to add to the ideal LT list:
We aren't fucking wolves. Humans do not have alpha males and shit, we are humans, not wolves. Seriously, if you EVER actually say those sorts of things in real life to another human I hope they spread that shit far and wide. Like I want you to show up at your next unit known as the "Alpha Male", people already laughing at you.
Dont be a gigantic faggot OP, treat your men with respect and dignity. And maybe, just maybe, they wont be a shitty platoon.
>>27847757
What is straw man argument?
>>27844402
Sounds to me like your platoon just volunteered for every sandbag detail in the battalion. Sounds like your troops are undertrained. You need to start correcting that by having an all-hands professional development hour, starting at 1800 every evening. To ensure full participation, assign everybody a different TM or FM, then they get to take turns reading aloud to the platoon.
This isn't rocket science. They're testing the boundaries. You respond by becoming a by-the-book martinet. They want to play games. Which reminds me- refresh yourself on current uniform and grooming regs and standards. Allow zero deviation. You're not their friend, quit trying to be. You'll have to be the abusive foster step dad for a while.
this thread owns, come back Lt.
>>27847783
I wasn't sure that OP was b8 until I read him starting to talk about his alpha wolf shit. It's just a little too obviously "it's all because I have a small dick".
Still a fun thread, because this does happen.
For example, I've known hapless managers who genuinely think this way >>27847440. They feel like either they're lording their authority over their men, or else they're being walked all over. It's a dead giveaway of a weak personality. They're too weak to endure the ambiguity that comes with being in command, but not being a despot.
Leadership is a subtle thing. You don't rule by out-muscling everyone and pulling rank. You do it by knowing where and how to use your power, in all its dimensions. HOW you do something is as important as what you do.
Example: LT wants to confirm that maintenance is being carried out. So he marches out and conducts an inspection. Or he sits in his office and does nothing. To him, those are the options.
Really, that's the platoon sergeant's job. But you can verify something without conducting a formal inspection. >>27845214 is an example of how. Check up without letting people realize they're being checked up on. If you see something, don't let on you've noticed. Tell your PSG in private and have him get it fixed. If the men are lax, then get them into shape one issue at a time, again letting the PSG be the one driving.
You don't have to be Demonstrating Leadership Skills™. Good leaders don't have to show off; their bosses just notice the results. In fact, a really great operation doesn't have any of the hollywood drama of great leaders-- shit just works. Everything goes smoothly.
The attitude OP is probably faking is all too common. It leads to shit-tier officers, shit-tier managers, and shit-tier fathers. So the next generation of strippers thanks you, OP, for eventually fathering them. You will probably meet someone and get married, and I pity in advance the fool who decides to live with you 24/7.
>>27846492
You're the shittiest fucking NCO ever, holy fuck.
Nigga, like a 2 mile run separates that really good guy who goes out of his way to help literally everyone with everything and never complains from being a good soldier? Fucking hell dude, I can't tell you how many of those we lost that were legitimately smart and productive because "oh no they were 2 sit ups short!" But yet we have massive shitbags around because they can get a 300.
Nah fuck that. Fuck you.
>>27847925
Oh fuck no, if you were my LT and tried that shit, Id tell you to go fuck yourself and the CO would back me on it.
Great and even ok leaders dont get respect by making life suck. They get it by knowing what the fuck they are doing.
Officers assign a task, the NCOs make it happen. The LT doesnt tell how it gets done, or even care. He just trusts the NCO to make it happen.
Shit as a SSG, if I dont see my LT all day it means everything is going well.
>Officers are pretty much useless. The military could do away with the whole officer corps and the rest of the miltary wouldnt notice till they asked why nothing had gotten fucked up lately.
>>27848357
He didnt say 300, he said couldnt pass the standard.
There is a standard for a reason. Do you want a Soldier who is over weight to be the one you have to rely on to run to your position with more ammo during a firefight?
Smart or not, you have to meet a standard or get out. You know this before basic, why would you make an exception for somene just because they are smart or "a really good guy?"
>>27848442
Because at any point in combat, if I have to rely on someone to run 2 miles to me with ammo, something much more important is much more fucked up.
>>27844517
>Hey Sir are you chewing mint gum?
>nah its dick flavor
Thats what you sound like
>>27848442
We have a small military as a proportion of our population. We can afford to be picky.
You don't have an obligation to be a soldier as in many countries. You also don't have a right to be a soldier.
>>27848451
Do you understand that the military by nature gets into that exact kind of situation on a regular basis?
>Baghram 2008
>Restrepo
>Countless other COPs you never heard of
You have to rely on everyone. You NEED to be able to run to an engagement and then still be able to fight. I have done 8hour long foot patrols in 102F heat and THEN had the enemy decide to shoot at me.
That is reality. That is war. That is what we do,
>Basically saying that I suck as a warrior (IMHO they are saying I suck... in Darwinian terms since male who isnt a warrior = beta/berrypicker as fuck)
>As I said above they are saying I suck at an evolutionary perspective
It sounds like the primary issue is that you're a complete crackpot. Go resolve that primary malfunction and things should improve considerably.
>>27848535
Yes, and I'm sure since I only have a 75 at situps, but I can deadlift 405 for reps my core is shit too eh?
Its not like units don't train up for deployments. Some joe sitting around on garrison, who is struggling at the run, yet does everything else at 110% and does it with a smile doesn't deserve to go home.
>>27848362
>>Officers are pretty much useless. The military could do away with the whole officer corps and the rest of the miltary wouldnt notice till they asked why nothing had gotten fucked up lately.
The irony. This is the average Holier than thou attitude that NCOs have nowadays. This is why OP probably have trust issues.
In my day my NCOs did their thing but never thought they were better or worse than the Os.
>>27847757
>>27848334
These guys are pretty much right, but I'll add a bit from my time as an 11A
Trust but verify when it comes to your NCO's, they always tell us trust your NCO's they're the subject matter experts, but we all know there are shitbags everywhere, make sure to identify and contain yours, but 80-90% will be solid dudes.
Above all your job is to facilitate, anything that comes from the top down that could cause friction you need to take care of, grease the wheels, make sure your guys are getting taken care of, I made a point of bringing our supply section coffee every now and then, go out for beers with the CO and other PLs every couple weeks, as gay and schmoozy as it sounds, when I became a Specialty PL I would make sure to go check in with the S3 and S2 every day even if it was just to shoot the shit.
Facilitating doesn't mean planning. Let whoever is supposed to execute plan their own shit, or be extremely involved in planning it, micromanagement will destroy you, let the guys who work with eachother every day and know their guy's strengths and weaknesses plan it, empower the squad leaders, but don't hang them out to dry, if they need help or have RFI's its your job to get them answers. But if its a platoon lead or company op, you need to be balls deep in the planning, still involving your squad leaders and PSG as much as possible, still though let them plan their own piece of the pie, 1000 ways to skin a cat and all that shit.
Again, as gay as it sounds, awards bro, last time I checked approving authority for an AAM was Battalion, I'd try and put someone in once a month whether for PT, Team leaders doing awesome during a live fire, whatever.
I don't know really what else to say, you just need to see where you fit and recognize your role, by the time you actually understand how to be a good PL they'll usually move you somewhere else and you get to start the realization process all over again.
>>27848535
>Baghram
Hehe...not a deployment I would tell people about...to me that like bragging about a deployment to Kuwait.
>>27848726
You probably havent had shitty Os like OP then. Ive had gold and bad, but mostly bad. One thing I hate is having to unfuck a mess that was made of my success. Its like Os come in and decide to change shit for "reasons" then come crying to me when its now fucked up. I have to stand there and say "well sir, this is why we were doing it that other way that you wanted to change."
>>27848573
In war there is no "these guys never see combat"
Write a letter to a dead Soldiers mother and see if you feel the same way. My job is to train Soldiers for war. If a guy isnt ready fr war, he is of no use to me.
>>27848937
Lol Egypt was prob better than Kuwait. The MFO bases all have bars.
>>27848997
You can make an out of shape soldier into shape.
You can't make an unmotivated shitbag who doesn't wanna be there into a motivated one.
>>27845152
THAT'S NOT YOUR JOB! YOUR JOB IS TO SUCK THE CUM STRAIGHT OUT OF THE CO'S DICK!
>>27845152
just stick to whatever the senior NCO's tell you, then you can focus on refinement and improvement. You dont want to mess up there mojo quite yet, remember that the car belongs to the PL SGT, you just get the keys sometimes =). It's seriously not that hard bro, and you PLT SGT can make your life extra easy, in which case you can focus on counseling and development. Guess what makes your OER look perfect? Thats right when your soldiers came out better than when you started. NCO's handle the small stuff, you keep your eyes on the prize and do the big stuff. Youll make a fine officer once you understand that. OCS class 56-60
ITT people who don't understand what a Commissioned Officer is.
Protip: The officers are hired by the civilian government IOT keep the military from seizing power and make sure they are in line with civilian guidance. Aka make sure everyone is following the rules like PMCSing shit based on the TM etc.
It's like being a commissioned photographer for a wedding; he does his job but he is not part of the wedding at any means.
Therefore these "lanes" are the NCO-centric imagined stuff.
>>27849500
Only if they want to change.
>>27848455
toplel underrated dubs
>>27849621
turn your trip back on faggot OP
>>27849715
lolno, you can make any fatty fit, ty based UCMJ
>>27849812
Sorry if the facts offend you
>>27849815
Lol no. You can threaten, give corrective training, counsel, UCMJ and regulate diet but you can not force change, only discharge.
>>27850167
didn't mean UCMJing someone for being fat, but that they are obliged to "obey the orders of the officers appointed over" them, as in being ordered to do remedial PT with the rest of the fatties who exercise with the unit both before 0900 and after 1700
>>27844657
Just because you're being polite doesn't mean you're not talking down to them.
>>27844830
>you're intellectually their superior and they feel threatened.
AAAAhahaha, really? If you're intellectually their superior, then why are you so stupid that you don't realize that being a stuck-up prig will not get you the commission you so desperately "deserve?"
>>27846187
The fact that he's a boot LT and calling Col. David Hackworth "wrong." That's more telling than anything else.
>>27845152
lol wut. With all due respect sir, fuck you. Platoon daddy will fuck me sideways if my 5988s are wrong. PLs need to make sure I have ammo at the range and that the CO isn't fucking me.
>>27845262
>Nobody in the Officer world thinks that
kek Bro, I came from a decent education background and it took me a good 2 years of ass fucking as enlisted to stop looking down on solid Joes. Officers have an extra 4 years of institutionalized patty cake and have 40 year old crusty ass men salute them. Of course it goes to their head.
>>27851221
yeah, thus far it is the only thing to his credit in this thread. you never go full hackworth
LT, where have you deployed?
Are you prior enlisted?
What schools/tabs you got?
Do you look like a man or a clean shaven boy?
>>27844830
>I got told flat out in private it wasnt anything I 'did' but 'who I was' as a person.
They were trying to tell you that you're a creepy autist as politely as they know how.
>>27844402
leadership, the art of kicking crying wussys in the cunt
ITT: Army problems
That was your first problem. Your second is being a little bitch and assuming "its becauz i smarter". Youre a fucking officer, you get paid more to take Too long on speeches reiterating the same shit, stick your hand ins in shit because "i must see what can be done better", and tryto keep "unit cohesion" be playing nice with the other fucking bitch enlisted that get put down by better enlisted just to keep the status quo.
Enlist or get out. And then get out for lack of presence.
*UPDATE*
Well shit. I just found out through the vineyards that I might be looking at a shortened Platoon Leader time.
This whole fiasco in my OP was the nail in the coffin. That and this dude who just came to the unit will be replacing me. Also, the Assistant S2 is PCSing so they need a new guy. The timing couldnt be more perfect.
So yeah. I have failed. I have failed as a warrior and as a man. If this was a couple of years back I would've fell on my sword already. So the next thing to do is not go home (so my GF couldnt see) get myself a hotel room and a shit ton of alcohol enough to get 2 horses drunk and then drink until I feel better.
>Alpha 1-6 out.
>>27851879
Kill them
>>27851879
>is was a couple of years back I would've fell on my sword already.
If you have any pride as a warrior, you would've done it already.
>>27851879
Dude you were just trying to hard. I ain't in the military but I can sorta give you some helpful tips.
As a LT you are supposed to be the voice of your Platoon, basically just listen to your men and don't try to take charge of everything
>>27851879
suckit up bitch tits, if your hot on your shit you'll get pl time again.
And look at this way, you cant fuckup s2 because its already fucked up. You'll get easy field time, a meal three times a day. 1.5hr lunches and end the day 1500 erday.
Plus most everyone else in their will be fatty mcfat fat so pt should be easy in the morning.
>>27851879
if you're not getting a relief for cause OER, then why worry more than you have to? I instinctually dislike you and posted some of the calmer (but still negative) criticisms of you. Fucking up as a branch detailed 2LT is not going to stop you from getting BQ'd. Enjoy the 2 shop, and instead of hiding it from your woman or acting ashamed, play it off to her as a promotion.
>>27851900
>>27852111
check em
>>27852171
he's not going to be 2LT long enough to get another PL slot, and I doubt he'll get one as a 1LT. If he stays in and his career continues on this trajectory, he'll stay on staff and no get company XO time, then will have a company only long enough to get branch qualified, spending the rest of his time in staff shops and never as an XO, DCO or The S3.
>assuming he doesn't get passed over for MAJ and put out on his ass, where he prolly belongs
>>27852258
>he's not going to be 2LT long enough to get another PL slot, and I doubt he'll get one as a 1LT. If he stays in and his career continues on this trajectory...
We're fucking downsizing. His "career" is over.
>>27845199
Shouldn't the platoon sergeant be doing this?
>>27845222
100% the PSG's job right here.
You seem to be having trust issues.
>>27852385
Forgot to add, this whole thread reads like a comment I read on a butterbar's promotion form I read about 7 years ago during the USAF's first wave of RIFs. Paraphrased: "2ND LT BUTTFUCKER is not recommended for promotion to 1ST LT as LT Buttfucker has yet to demonstrate he has the aptitude as a serviceman at any rank."
>>27845513
Yeah, don't do that. If it really bothers you, tell the psg.
>>27845642
If everything was goddamn fine before, let it goddamn be. You weren't listening to your ncos, and you come to us for help, and when someone gives you advice, you say fuck you. The first step to changing a problem is admitting a problem
>>27845756
Okay right here. Swallow your pride. It's so hard to do, I struggle with it constantly. But you can not learn, you cannot improve, you cannot change if your ego gets in the way. Maybe the ncos are being petty. If keep acting petty and taking that shit to heart, you can't receive any criticism, valid or invalid, and cannot improve.
>>27845826
Oh, damnit, I was rused
Played like a damn fiddle.
>>27850652
>>27850652
I got what you are saying now.
Look, its not like I try to put guys out after one failure of an APFT. I work with them, run with them, give them all the tools I can to succeed, even diagnostics test. But guys fail record after record APFT. So what am I gonna do? If I dont do the paperwork to put them out it makes me look like a shitbag SSG to my guys who do meet the standard.
In my exp the guys who want to be in the Army push hard (and you can tell who pushes vs who shows up to remedial PT) and turn it around, the others dont give a shit (and it shows) and just want out, so I put them out. Some even confess that they really just hated the army and wanted out, thats fine its not for everyone.
Your NCOS are fucking retards for goinow to your boss. They clearly don't respect you or your Platoon Sergeant.
If my NCOS went to me, let alone the CO, with an issue before talking to my platoon sergeant they would be very nearly murdered.
You said earlier that the platoon has "two dads". That's your problem.
A platoon should have a mom and a dad. Someone to crush nuts and and the other to make everything better. Usually it's the platoon sergeant who is the dad and the Lt is the mom. Not always though (not necessarily a bad thing if the roles are switched).
If you have 2 dad's in your platoon it's a guarantee that something along the communication chain is fucked, and the NCOS aren't getting what they need leadership wise.
>>27852385
oh yeah, derp, brain fart
>>27852605
I take your point. I had a leg that was basically useless to the Infantry, but I was still at least passing APFT. I don't have warm feelings about lazy guys with fully functioning bodies.
>>27852899 dubs checked
What is open door policy? Also, what this guy said: >>27846319
>The squad leaders involved might legitimately not jumped chain. When I was in (pic related), this is the sort of thing that might have come up while routinely discussing professional development with the First Sergeant.
Crush guys who use the open door stupidly, as it is the nuclear option, but it can be the appropriate thing to do, and in this case seems like it was
>>27852926
If it was a "nuclear option-open door policy" it was just as much a failure on this kids platoon sergeant as it was on him. Honestly as a boot fuck Lt all you really need to do if your Plt Sgt is halfway decent is PT good and look pretty.
I'm sure the First Sergeant was happy to see NCOS going to the CO as well, First Sergeants love that sort of thing.
>>27852967
I'd been under the impression they'd gotten with the 1SG before the CO. Either way, your entire post doesn't negate any of what I said or bolster what I was responding to.
>>27848362
>Officers are pretty much useless. The military could do away with the whole officer corps and the rest of the miltary wouldnt notice till they asked why nothing had gotten fucked up lately.
Until paycall rolls around and nobody's direct deposit went through. Or the chow hall runs out of food. Or any one of a million other things. You said it yourself- officers assign tasks, NCOs make it happen.
This may come as a shock to your zero defect mentality but if things aren't being fucked up, it's because nothing is being done.
Any contemporary military organization is hellishly complicated. Ours may well be the most complex creation on the planet. Complexity begets fuck ups. Are you honestly going to try telling me that you've never fucked up?
>>27853585
>Are you honestly going to try telling me that you've never fucked up?
careful, you are on 4chan after all. personal infallibility is a tenet of 90% of poster's views on themselves
>>27844830
If you got dismissed from OCS, it's because you fail at life. Period.
>>27848362
>Officers are pretty much useless. The military could do away with the whole officer corps and the rest of the miltary wouldnt notice till they asked why nothing had gotten fucked up lately.
This is when you can tell someone is either straight civilian or never made it above lower enlisted.
OP was using an unsecure trip. how many of these posts were just random anons?
NCOs are the armies form of SJWs.
They will be mad, they will be angry, they will bitch, and cry, and complain about ANYTHING you do as an officer. You will never be right, they will always be right.
Talking to them is akin to talking to a mid twenties something purple haired pierced and tatted up tumblrina on a college campus. You are not right no matter what and they will do their fucking best to ruin you.
Thats how you have to come into the situation. You are at war with your NCOs because they are at war with you.
>>27854857
damn homie, what kind of malfunctioning unit did you serve in? I was a mechanized infantryman, and I even spent time in a Brigade HHC's training room, but I didn't walk away nearly that bitter
>>27856944
I'm working on the assumption that he didn't serve in any units at all and is just talking out his ass.
Or is OP and butthurt at his Alpha Warrior status being challenged.
>>27854857
This. But NCOs usually tolerate officers if they think they are one upping him. OP was trying to do his job and his NCOs wanted to keep him in the dark. Because, well... he is doing his job.
I bet you there are some shady shit that is happening in that Platoon and they know the LT wont be swayed any other way and they wont win. This is a symptom of a bigger sickness.
>>27856954
oddly enouugh, I specifically remember a 2LT in the S2 who was friendly with me. He specifically highlighted branching MI in order to be /more/ of a killer than he could have been as an 11A PL. How so? He was the Brigade Targeting O
>>27856967
Well. He is basically the executioner telling people who he should kill. Realistically he could be sitting in his office producing target packets after packets and then the grunts are killing them wholesale. Its like he kills more people in a day, depending on his mood.
So yeah...
>>27851879
Step 1: Stop being a micro management bitch
Step 2: Learn from this and take the right lessons out of it
Step 3: If you mind steps 1 and 2 you will soon stop being too retarded to tie your own shoes
Should've joined the Marines
>kill
>>27857377
This. This entire thread reminds me of how fucked up and disfunctional the army is.
This thread reminded me that I have to go back to an ordinary chain of command after working for two O-5s for the last year as an E-5. It was actually very chill.
>>27857694
Officers are chill with their "subordinates" not with each other.
>>27856966
Like what anon?
>>27858708
Depends on rank, but generally Army officers are very chill with each other. First name basis and all that.
>>27851879
Do you know that for sure or just the rumor mill? If the latter then there is still time to fix your shit. its obvious that there is mutual mistrust between you and the NCOs. So now you need to convince them to unite under your Platoon's banner and make sure you guys are not fragmented like this and is working as a team for the collective good.
Thats what I would do.
>>27851879
I have to ask this, do you have autism? Im not trying to be a dick, is there seriously something mental wrong with you? they way you talk about being an "alpha" and all this shitty drunk sounding mindset make me truly wonder about your mental state.
