I enjoy the first Windows generation a lot more than later games. For some reason, I find them much more fun.
Considering the THWiki poll, the japanese players are the same.
But I'm just a casual, so I don't know WHY. Is it "charm"?
Anyone else feels like this? Any opinions? Maybe a more advanced player can explain this.
To elaborate, my first Touhou game was in 2011 with TD, so I don't think it's nostalgia.
>>15412792
The latest generation of games have plots that are, like, involved and shit. On the other hand, first generation of Windows games had retarded plots like "someone has stolen the moon, are you a bad enough dude to get it back" and "someone is trying to feed spring to a tree."
Also, a lot of the easy and charming design space has been used up.
>>15412792
Older Touhou games are generally better. That doesn't mean there aren't good newer games like Fairy Wars.
Hoping Touhou 16 isn't as bad as LoLK was.
>>15412831
>plots
Literally who cares about plots.
>>15412792
They have fun mechanics and it's easier to get lives. UFO-like collection games are annoying. MoF style bombs are shitty. I don't like how in general you collect life pieces instead of getting lives from score nowadays.
I like DDC though. StB type games are the best of the series, imo, Fairy Wars included. Something about charging up your attack is pretty fun.
>>15412831
Speaking of plot, I really liked how DDC went back to having a simple incident and self-contained cast/plot, complete with retarded dialogue and silly characters.
I wonder if we'll get another game that doesn't takes itself too seriously.
>>15412792
I have found the older games to be more enjoyable to me, mainly because of how the bomb and life system where handled in Eosd and IN versus SA and UFO.
>>15412858
The simple plots do give doujins something to work off of.
>>15412792
The first windows trilogy is generally better because the games don't rely on gimmicks like MoF/SA bomb system, UFO UFO's or TD annoying Trance. Both EoSD and PCB offer the best arcade experience and IN has a fuck ton of content.
Doesn't mean that the later games are not really good on their own.
>>15412877
>I don't like how in general you collect life pieces instead of getting lives from score nowadays.
I feel like there's much more pressure to perform flawlessly before stage 5, while I could lose a life here or there and still manage to 1 CC older games.
>>15413162
>perform flawlessly before stage 5
u wot
You don't need to "perform flawlessly" to get enough lives to beat the games.
>>15412792
You, and the people on this thread who agree with you, are what's called "genwunners"
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=genwunner
>>15413321
Get back to /v/ faggot. Even with your retarded "argument" people that preffer the PC-98 games over the newer games are the "genwunners".
>>15413226
Dunno, maybe it's other factors. But outside of UFO, I always feel this pressure, especially in LoLK.
>>15413321
I can't be a genwunner because I didn't start with EoSD or SoEW.
>>15412792
I think the early ones were better as well, favorite being PCB.
The things later games try to do, other non touhou games already do much better.
Maybe this difference of opinion stems from people who also play arcade shmups v.s. people who only play touhou.
To me, the music and graphics of the first three seem much more rich and unique.
EoSD is just such a charming game imo, albeit a little outdated.
Music/characters/plot is still good to great in the newer ones, but the mechanics and overall pattern design in the first three windows games is usually superior. Especially for scoring, every mainline game since 8 has had various issues due to the mechanics. Mainly they get really annoying to score (for example if you mess up your UFO route or trance route, MoF scoring being chaining, and DDC and LoLK giving too many bombs that you end up bombspamming way, way too much).
>>15413332
PC-98 wasn't really that good considering the first 2 games, although they are unique in their own way. 3 through 5 is where the games really got good when ZUN had his creative streak with the music and gameplay in general which continued into the early Windows games. It's a pity ZUN effectively abandoned those games because the platform is outdated.
>>15412792
It's because you're a secondary at heart.
>>15414390
The visible hitbox mod is all you need.
>>15412792
I have only played 6, 7, 8, 10, and 11 but I definitely find the first 3 to be better than 10 and 11.
I've been playing SA recently and I've honestly been disappointed with it. I mean it's not a bad game but I hold Touhou to a high standard and SA does not meet that standard. The bombing system sucks, shot type balance is totally awful, bombing system simply does not work well with certain shot types, and this is slightly nitpicky but I think the cast is boring.
MoF I originally thought was just good and not great but it's really been growing on me. I really like the art and how colorful the game is, the music is great, the cast is the best since EoSD, and shot type balance is at least decent. Sure the bombing system sucks but at least you get one extra power for a free bomb, unlike SA, and the rest of the game is so good it makes up for it.
For me, 8 > 7 = 6 > 10 >> 11
>>15412792
To this day, I still think Imperishable Night is the best game to date. The amount of extra content and bonus spellcards and shot type choices is absurd when you compare it to every other game in the series. Theres literally tons of content and replayability.
>>15418317
Is there a reason you haven't played 12, 13, 14 and 15?
>>15415259
>PC-98 wasn't really that good
What? LLS and MS are better than some of the newer games.
>>15418414
Yep. Zun went all out on it. Speaking of content, we don't seem to get many stage 4 bosses that varies depending on your shot types. Only SA and DDC had them in the new Windows generation.
>>15418697
Haven't gotten to them yet. I started with 6. I've basically given up on SA hard since I just don't like the game enough to go through with it, so I should be starting 12 really soon, and based on what I've seen and heard about it I think I'll like it. 13 and 15 look like rubbish though.
>>15419751
>I should be starting 12 really soon, and based on what I've seen and heard about it I think I'll like it. 13 and 15 look like rubbish though.
It's a shame to start playing things with preconceived notions. You'll end up reinforcing them with confirmation bias and diminish any enjoyment you otherwise would have had. It's one thing to say you'll put that aside and enter with an open mind, but it's another to have an open mind simply by virtue of never having seen something before.
>>15412831
You don't read the omake.txt files?
Oh boy, it's another of these threads, what could go wrong
>>15422426
Taboo: The Thread
>>15421565
But he's not wrong thought. 13 and 15 vary on therms of quality. First we have the annoying trance mode in TD that activates automatically every single time you die runing your chances of capturing spellcards if you die on a nonspell. Then you have the terribly balanced Legacy mode on 15, designed arround trial an error, memorization and RNG. While it's pretty bad to make assumtions of a game that you haven't played you also have to admit that his opinion is not far off those games, even thought they had pretty good mechanical ideas (like the grace Mechanic in LoLK)
>>15422771
You know, you're just proving him right.
His melodies don't sound as much like sentences anymore. The contour isn't as interesting and powerful, and that may just be the result of finding the limitations of his harmonic vocabulary. For EoSD-IN he was at the height of his powers and was still very strong through UFO, but the twists in his melodies I don't believe give the same sense of the air, the clear vision of his world.
>>15419751
>>15418317
You skipped 9. Go play 9. Play 12.8 too.
>>15423366
Certainly his style has changed a lot compared to the first games, but I still think he's capable of composing themes that stand up to the rest while being different from his older work. Little Princess is maybe the most emotional theme he's done (and manages to be one of the highest ranked songs in the popularity polls despite being relatively new). Listening to the newer game ost compared to the older ones though, the thing that stands out to me is how the music focuses on being more rhythmic (?) compared to before.
>>15423382
No. The gameplay looks like it's not for me. I just read all the dialog on the wiki and listened to the music. I do plan on playing 12.8, though.
>>15423407
I do not like Little Princess. It does not sound like Touhou to me. There is too little variation in color and sentiment across the melodic line, and it was kind of what I had in mind when I said his melodies don't sound so much like sentences anymore. I understand that a lot of people like it, however.
>>15423422
>I just read all the dialog on the wiki and listened to the music.
What a fucking secondary.
>>15423601
DO
YOU
EVEN
SCOAR?!
>>15422771
>Then you have the terribly balanced Legacy mode on 15, designed arround trial an error, memorization and RNG
That's actually how most games are designed. I don't disagree that it's poorly balanced, but the issue is more a retarded, OP resource system (giving the player 25+ lives and 3x as many bombs is generally not the best idea) and some odd design choices like the final boss having a stupid "super easy to read but super precise positioning or wiggling to not die" gimmick on half of her attacks. Not the quality you'd expect from someone making high quality STGs for 18 years at the time. Sagume has the whole easier than previous boss thing going too, but consistent difficulty scaling can be tough to judge sometimes and a one-off boss is a minor thing. As far as stage and boss design goes, I think the stages are some of the best of the series, and the bosses are for the most part very good as well. Aside from what I've mentioned earlier about Junko, there's very little in terms of stage/boss design that I would say is poorly designed or balanced. Some stuff could be better, like detrivializing some sections like the exploding balls in stage 3, but it's overall very good. EoSD is the real example of poor balancing, where, unless you're routing for optimal graze, very little out of the game is challenging outside of the last 3 bosses (and even they are a masive zig-zag of huge spikes and drops in difficulty from super hard to trivial) and of course the stage 4 books, which just come out of nowhere before immediately going back to trivial stages. EoSD is still probably an overall better game than LoLK because the game system itself is much better and doesn't glorify excessive bombing/suicides. They're still a big part of the game, but the limited resources and limited number of patterns where they're worthwhile forces the player to do a lot of work grazing patterns manually to build up the reward for cashing in their bombs, rather than a system like LoLK that encourages players to dump bombs for every single pattern with a lot of bullets coming from a single spawn point (ie. a huge portion of the game).
With regards to the topic in general, the reason the old games are better is probably mostly because there's less bombing and more routing depth. There's exceptions like UFO, but most games are just too bomby.
>>15412792
Because the bullet pattern in later games SUCKS ASS. They are so bad and stupid or even just plainly inconsistent between stages and difficulties. Bettern bullet pattern = more fun to dodge, more eyecandy, more enjoyment.
To give you an idea, good patterns are the one in IN for example (super flashy, good looking patterns). But MoF definetely has the best patterns in the series (balanced between being flashy, functional and fun to dodge).
I really just can't enjoy 11-15 the same way I do 6-10, either.
It just feels like ZUN is trying to throw whatever gimmick he can think of at a game and go with it a lot of the time.
11's shot types were gimmicky and just a plain nuisance
12's UFOs were unbearable
13's Trance mode is obtrusive
14's shot types were also gimmicky
And 15 is just an all around mess.
Sure, 7 and 8 had their gimmicks, the cherries borders and time, but they weren't as incredibly obnoxious and gameplay disruptive as I feel later entries are with their gimmicks.
I still enjoy the spinoffs, such as 12.5 and12.8, 14.3 not so much.
I say this every day, every night, every afternoon, and God its so true: EoSE is overrated as hell
It is amazingly good, granted, but no fucking way it deserves to be considered to best of all the touhou games, specially baffling considering it has been considered so in every single popularity pool. There are many things that need polishing and that following games do better and are more complete
