>present perfect
>past perfect
Why do these two tenses exist again? Present perfect doesn't even make any sense logically, who cares when something had happened, it's ALL in the past. They should just merge the two tenses and be done with it.
>>61919741
Indo-European languages, my friend. Spanish has both tenses as well.
but it's useful
I never understood the tenses meme. Do you guys really need to overcomplicate everything with unnecessary bullshit?
Russian has exactly three tenses: past, present, future. You know, kind of like real life
>>61919938
Exactly! That makes sense.
>>61920115
It depends of your very language. Spanish has those tenses and is logic for me.
>>61919741
Because it gives you clear indication of when the events happened.
The tenses have their uses and languages without them are utter shit.
>He terminado esto
>Terminé esto
Quite different.
>>61920859
Only one i have trouble with is subjunctive.
dudo que hubiese terminado eso.
>>61920859
>clear indication of when the events happened
>now
>yesterday
>hour ago
the problem is solved
>>61921185
That's incorrect:
>Dudo de que haya terminado eso
You only use the pluscuamperfecto when you have a conditional proposition before/after.
>>61921275
>add a whole word instead of a sufix
ISHIGGYDIGGY
>>61919938
We have past, present and future. We also have past perfect but one may as well keep it out since it's not used at all (since past is adequate).
These tenses are just something Anglos made up so their language wouldn't be so bare-bones.
>>61921700
>These tenses are just something Anglos made up so their language wouldn't be so bare-bones.
I hope you actually know that's not true.
>>61919741
This shit trigger everyone here once they discovered this at school
>>61921898
A language without dual and genders doesn't even qualify as a language, more like a pidgin or something.
>>61921982
No, I mean that tenses long precede English.
>>61922046
But as Slovene shows, you don't need a "present perfect" etc.
>>61921934
yeah, but it kinda makes sense after a while.
>>61919741
english is a meme language,, if you want to learn a language learn something useful like french
>>61922127
Yes, and as Spanish shows, you "don't need" pronouns, but they add meaning to the sentence.
You must have very poor literature if you lack so many tenses to ad nuance.
>>61922226
French is even more meme when it comes to tenses and gender nouns.
>>61922235
The only times you need are past, present and future. Anything in between can be expressed with these three.
Also, I would say that genders add more to a language than so many additional tenses.
>>61919741
>all that bullshit
We only need present and three levels of past
>>61922381
the past perfect is needed in literature. It's really a usefull thing.
This type of precision is why English language literature is so great. You need precision in language in this world nowadays.
>>61922381
>The only times you need are past, present and future
No, not even close.
>Also, I would say that genders add more to a language than so many additional tenses.
No, genders add, at most 2 additional meanings, while tenses and forms add number of people, time it was done and whether the action was done with intent, as an order or a wish.
Adding tenses let's you properly speak futuribles with clear meanings; the very reason Spanish law is written in future of subjunctive.
>>61922546
>precision
>you can literally be directed at one, two or a bunch of people
>>61922570
>number of people
That's what singular, dual and plural are for.
>intent, as an order or a wish
That's expressed with other words.
>>61922801
>That's expressed with other words.
Why use more words when you can just use a suphix? By that logic we should use "infinitive+time"
>>61922940
but they use it =))
>will could can would going to etc
>>61923058
>but they use it =))
Yes, but English is trash, it has no real tenses.
My point is not the defense of English, but of tenses.
>>61919741
I never understood past perfect.
>>61919741
>merging past and present perfect
That's simply idiotic. They serve two completely different functions.
>>61921275
But it doesn't tell you whether you finished or not, or if you're still doing it
Dialectally, we pretty much only use 2 tenses: Present and perfect (preterite is only used for "be" and "have")
Why no future? Because it is implied, we simply say "I do X tomorrow/next week/year/..."
>>61919741
>Why do these two tenses exist again?
They help clarify when the event is occuring in relation to other events. Past perfect is usually used in relation to other events.
>John has written a story
Basic past tense to show an action has been performed and completed
>John had written a story when he left that morning
i.e. The action was completed before before he left the house
>John had been writing a story when he left that morning
i.e. The action was not completed before he left the house
Etc...
Why do Hungarian and Finnish need 6 trillion noun declensions? Just to be more specific about stuff.
>>61925024
Same here
What the hell is the point of articles? What function do they even serve? Even worse is that the rules for using them are vague as fuck. Why do I have to solve the puzzle of slapping a/the/nothing in front of every noun before saying something? Clean that garbage away, please.
>>61926680
Personally, I think the Russian language could benefit from using articles.
>>61926680
>a/the/nothing
It's not so hard, try learning german
>>61926680
>What the hell is the point of articles?
To know whether you are speaking of something, some things and if you are being specific or not about them.
>>61919741
>Present perfect doesn't even make any sense logically
> who cares when something had happened,
Are you retarded? Just because you don't care about something doesn't mean it can be a coherant and logical thing.
I could say to you as a Hungarian:
1) "Who the fuck cares if a noun is nominative or accusative? The position of the word in the sentence can tell me that".
2) "Who the fuck cares about vowel harmony. Why am I autistic and need certain vowels to only go with other certain vowels in a word?"
3) 'Why the fuck to I have a incomplete cluster of locative cases? Either I should have 1 locative tense to cover them all, or I should have one tense for literal each possible locative type, rather than only have few locative cases and I need other words, not cases, to represent the rest"
etc etc etc
>>61919741
If I had concentrated in class I would know
>>61921982
Based dual users. English has some fragments of dual grammar. ie. Both, neither, either.
The most completely useless thing in languages are arbitrary male/female genders. At least go for an animate/inanimate distinction which makes more sense.
>>61919741
They have slightly different meanings; it is not identical to the simple past.
>>61926680
I spent 6 months in Syktyvkar and I agree. Articles are redundant, but they change the meaning of the sentence if there is some emphasis on the "the". Russian is not so difficult imo because of the lack of articles.
>I am going to the shop.
>Я идy в мaгaзин
>I go to shop
I also speak Estonian. I realize that Uralic languages are hard, but they have no articles, no gender at all and no future tense.
>>61927971
You mean he/she or the gendered objects like in German?
>>61927971
It's literally just about the ending of the noun and the different declensions.
Are we the only slavic language that has perfect tenses? And I don't mean just one, we have four of them.
>>61928306
We have past perfect but it's not used at all these days.
>>61928185
Gendered objects
>>61928208
In Slavic languages yes, still useless though really. In languages like French and German it's seemingly random
>>61928388
Yeah I agree. It's ridiculous that a chair is male/female. The animate/inanimate works better.
>>61928185
Estonian has gender in a way since we can make certain words sound feminine. The articles are replaced by attaching suffixes to words.
>>61928527
>make certain words sound feminine.
Care to explain that is news to me. I understand the suffixes fine. I am at B2 level btw.
>>61927971
I agree with this.
If I understand the theories correctly, both Indo-European and Afroasiatic originally were animate-inanimate gendered languages, but both changed to the more classical masculine-feminine (+neuter for Indo-European) genders later. I don't understand why, since it seemed to make more sense the old way. In both groups, only some traces of the original uage remain (IE languages have easy to find articles about it so I won't get into that, but as an example of a trace in AA, Arabic uses the "feminine" ending for abstract nouns)
>>61926680
the apple ≈ этo яблoкo
an apple ≈ кaкoe-тo яблoкo
>>61926680
>Why do I have to solve the puzzle of slapping the case marker in the end of every noun before saying something?
>Why do I need to deal with the hassle of having genders for nouns when I could have no genders at all yet still lose nothing?
English has some sort of masculine-feminine, doesn't it?
So you can say: America as country - she
cat - he/she
my boat - she
so, our language just moved father
>>61919938
It's not that simple, Ivan
>ya chital
>ya prochital
>>61931640
That isn't grammatical gender though. It's just anthropomorphization of words that normally use "it" as the pronoun.
>>61931969
>ja chital
>ja prochital (the perfect aspect form of "chital")
>ja prochityval (the imperfect aspect form of the perfect aspect form of "chital")
>>61925699
what? is this just colloquial or standard?
i though future tense was werden + infinitive?
also you have an imperfect no eg. ich wohnte. do you not use that often?
and what about your meme tenses like pluperfect, future perfect, conditional, conditional perfect, imperative, and TWO subjunctives!
sorry im shit at colloquial german so i have no idea how regularly these are used
>>61932400
Like I said, dialectal. (I'm a South-Western village bum and we still have a strong dialect)
>werden + inf
Yeah that's the formal way, but even colloquially it's replaced by the present:
>Ich gehe morgen ins Kino, gehst du mit?
>I go to the cinema tomorrow, you go with me?
But thinking about it, dialectally we sometimes use the "werden + inf" form too, but only if we're unsure about the future event/it's just vague plans
>>61932554
cheers for answering my questions.
would would still use present tense for future actions if there is no time adverb phrase
e.g. i will go to the cinema = Ich gehe ins Kino or Ich werde ins Kino gehen
>>61932712
Generally yes I'd say, but then again you'd only utter such a sentence after being asked what you do tomorrow/next week etc
But again, other regional dialects might handle this differently. Using a "werden" form wouldn't be a "faux pas" though anyway, it's kinda optional
>>61931969
Prefixes have nothing to do with tenses, senpai
>>61919741
>>61919938
>>61920115
>>61921275
Ithkuil has 32 tenses. Some """""languages""""" seem to only have 3 tenses.
>>61926680
Ithkuil does not have articles, because articles are SHIT
>>61926824
KYS
>>61933296
>making up 32 useless tenses
>not recognizing 5 genders
>>61933446
What genders?
Ithkuil has 2 "genders". Animate and inanimate. Differentiating between male and female is pretty useless unless you are talking about reproduction ;)
>32 tenses
>useless
You only think this because you speak a pleb """"language"""""
>>61933446
>only five genders
>>61933601
>>61933446
What is this child going to say next? 72 cases is too much?
>>61933632
Word classes don't count. The original Ithkuil had 17 word classes.
>>61926010
Not sure about Finnish, but the "case" in Hungarian aren't even cases.
They're just prepositions and things that in English we put as words before the word, they just put it on the end instead.
Instead to "to" or "at" they just add a letter to the end. Hungarian is actually easy as shit once you realize this and stop thinking of cases and declensions like Russian and other languages
>>61933296
>reading about this
>some nerd made up an even gayer version of klingon
>it sounds like someone's barfing
Whats the point of this
>>61933876
>Some nerd made up and even gayer version of klingon
This scrub non-ironically thinks Ithkuil is comparable to klingon.
>it sounds like someone's barfing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uLzdTndP34
:^)
>>61921275
>>61921934
>>61922170
>>61922544
>>61931318
>>61933876
Learning russian to teach some russians the superior language :^)
>>61934020
Damn, and I thought Esperantists were autistic...
>>61933632
>Masculine animate
>Masculine inanimate
Using this approach, we'll get 6 genders in Russian. It is good for shitposting on /int/ but unproductive when you really want to explain somebody how the language actually work.
>>61934076
They are. While esperantists are serious, I am just making bantz.
>>61934095
Nice cases. Wait...
>Vocative for an inanimate object
What the fuck?
>>61934102
On that note, is that frog in Slovakia who always shills hard for this Judeo-Spanish abomination still around? Have only been on /int/ irregularly lately
>>61934162
I have no idea. I am only on /int/ every now and then.
Whenever I do see an esperanto thread, I make sure to bring the bantz.
>>61919741
This exists to explain why you did something in the past. It always expression of context in the past.
I.e. "I had discovered the mexican problem and decided we needed to build a wall" - Trump in 2025
>>61934154
>mirror mirror on the wall...
>>61934312
Now tell me why the same exact sentence couldn't exist without 'had'
>>61934343
I see, just weird how you would get a special conjugation just for something like that. In Ithkuil, cases don't conjugate in gender.
>>61933296
What's the point in inventing a meme language that no one can pronounce?
>>61934513
1) That is the older version of Ithkuil with more consonants than the current
2) I can pronounce all of that easily. Not my fault that you are a pleb :^)
Also
>meme language
Ithkuil is perhaps the most beautiful language in existence. 10/10 I rate. I translate all my anime into Ithkuil before I watch them.
>>61934360
It can.
"I discovered there was a mexican problem and decided we needed to build a wall".
The perfect past tense is set by abstacting the object and verb statement. It implies an action explained in context.
>>61934360
>he can't comprehend the difference
One was done in the past and is till happening in the past. The other is in the past and finished in the past.
>>61934513
Also this is a natural language with MORE consonants.
>>61919741
Fuck grammar
I be speaking the way I could.
>>61934976
Fuck, forgot to post pic
>>61934896
>One was done in the past and is till happening in the past
I hope one day you can see how retarded that sounds, and that anyone with half-functioning brain should be able to infer such things from context alone instead of littering the language with verbal trash
>>61935023
>I be speaking the way I could.
Actually what you said is ungrammatical in African American Vernacular.
Also I don't get this meme that ebonics is not a real dialect. That is like saying spanish is not a real language and is just low iq subhumans trying to speak latin.
At the end of the day. Ithkuil is the only language worth learning
>>61935062
>should be able to infer such things from context alone
>SPEAKING A PLEB LANGUAGE THAT RELIES ON CONTEXT TO COMMUNICATE.
"Plurality is useless, it can be deciphered from context alone"
"Tense is useless, it can be deciphered from context alone"
"Case is useless, it can be deciphered from context alone"
"Adjectives are useless, it can be deciphered from context alone"
Holy shit, fucking casual.
>>61935083
You can shill this language as much as you want, but nobody will bother to learn it if they can't watch TV shows, play video games, read books or talk to girls in it.
>>61935148
God forbid a language requires people to think during a conversation
>>61935175
>if they can't watch TV shows
I will get to translating TV shows soon TM
>play video games
There was already a video game translation for Ithkuil but it was not the best Ithkuil and the game is dead. Soon every game would use Ithkuil :^)
>read books
Soon TM
>talk to girls in it.
>BEING A PLEB THAT TALKS TO GIRLS
Oh and there are tons of girls interested in philosophy that take interest in the language. Like this one:
https://twitter.com/LxFrancis/status/747028060994560000
>>61935275
>god forbid a language that requires a speaker to think about they are about to say so the audience would get a concise overview of the discussion
Anyways, you do realize this is just bantz right? I don't actually think other languages are superior any other.
>>61935389
CYKA
>>61935453
нe гoвopитe, cyкe
That is the extent of my shitty russian skills
>>61935817
>нe гoвopитe, cyкe
Did you mean "мoлчи, cyкa"?
>>61935897
So there is a verb to mean "don't talk" in russian? Interesting.
But why did you put "cyкa" in the dative case? I don't really get why you could think that it should be here...
>>61919938
>talking shit about the specificity of time of an event, which can be formed by using auxilliary verbs
>has 20 cases, female and male, one word for each of both
No wonder you are poor.
>>61936208
Trying to put it into vocative but I am retarded.
And that's why people recommend not to learn two languages from the same family at the same time.
>>61936057
what
>>61921982
Genders are literally uselss and arbitrary
