Why can't Spain simply let them go?
>>61629319
Monarchy
>>61629319
Why should we?
>>61629537
Because they want to be independant and you respect democracy?
>>61629564
How do you know they want to? Also Catalonia doesn't belong to the catalans, but to the whole spanish people.
>>61629319
>>61629749
Why not hold a referendum?
And if the majority of inhabitants of Catalonia dont want to be part of your country, why do you want to hold them against their will?
>>61629319
YOU ARE HERE FOREVER
>>61629564
>and you respect democracy?
Democracy was a mistake.
>>61629807
That would be against our Constitution. You can't just ignore the Constitution.
>>61629928
granting independance to Catalonia would be against your constitution?
>>61630006
Yes, the Constitution says the spanish nation is indivisible and indissoluble.
>>61630006
Yes. Besides that most of the population is not independence.
>>61630129
>>61630152
A constitution that activly opresses minorities is not a good one.
Maybe its time for a constitutional change?
>>61630202
It's de facto almost impossible to change the Constitution, it requires a huge majority in the parliament. A party proposing to change the constitution to allow catalanonian independence would never be so voted.
>>61630202
>A constitution that activly opresses minorities
Catalanes aren't a minority.
>>61630202
Fuck off Bismarck haven't you done enough to Europe
>>61630394
How comes?
>>61630317
Fair enough, but why do you as a person support keeping catalonia in spain against their will?
>>61630505
The independence faction is a meme, they don't have a majority Alexais
>Kraut trying his divide and conquer tactic
Fuck off
>>61630202
It not oppresses anyone...
>>61630505
>How comes?
How comes what? They're not a different race and they are culturally the largest group, how the hell are they a "minority"?
If you want to talk about minorities, you have to talk about sudacas, moros and gypsies, not catalanes.
If you are going to call catalanes a "minority" just because they claim to be a different race, you'd have to put Valencia, Aragón, Baleares and part of Murcia as genetically the same, making Castellanos the smallest minority.
>>61630505
First of all I don't think most of the catalans want to leave Spain. Second, that is something that would affect the whole Spain, so it's the whole Spain who has to decide on it. It wouldn't be fair for the rest of spaniards to ignore their oppinion on something that affects them directly.
>>61630635
They are a different culture than spanish and they have lived in Catalonia forever.
That makes them a minority group.
In Germany, we have Frisian, Danish and Sorbish minorities, who have special minority rights
Because to give you an idea, it would be like NI, Wales and Scotland allowing England independence.. Absolute madness.
Oh, wait. Heh. =D
>Its a Catalan diaspora shilling for independence episode
Jeez
>>61630737
>They are a different culture than spanish and they have lived in Catalonia forever.
Everyone in Spain has their own culture, you seem to forget Spain became a thing from the conquest of Castilla and Aragón, not a common culture. Making the "culture" argument a no-go; hell, in Madrid we have our own subculture, but I don't consider myself a "minority".
They haven't lived there "forever" because the original population of Cataluña no longer exists. The independency of Barcelona made by the Frankish Empire is not the same thing as modern-day Cataluña, no matter how much separatists say otherwise.
>That makes them a minority group.
Again, that makes Castilla a minority group because the actual "Paisos catalans" are considerably more populated than Castilla. By your logic Cataluña is the predomint group, with the vascos, castellanos, gallegos and andaluces being a minority.
>In Germany, we have Frisian, Danish and Sorbish minorities, who have special minority rights
I don't know the case of Germany, but I can tell you they are NOT a minority.
>special treatment
But that's because you are permantly castrated into killing your own country, Hans.
>>61630892
>I don't know the case of Germany, but I can tell you they are NOT a minority.
A group of people qualifies as a minority if:
>they have their own culture not shared by the majority
>they are natives (so immigrants dont count)
As far as I am aware, under this conditions, the inhabitants of Catalonia should be considered a minority
>But that's because you are permantly castrated into killing your own country, Hans.
So you dont think minorities deserve a special protection?
>>61629564
Democracy is shit
>>61630737
>muh culture
Well, this meme has to die. They speak another language. Even some catalans -without being xarnegos- have castilian as first language. And btw catalan is not so far from castilian. When I go to Catalonia I don't a foreigner. The same with Portugal.
They control education where catalan dominates castilian. They have TV in catalan, a lot of money wasted in translate films and in doing all types of cultural programs.. that is being a oppressed minority?
>>61630202
>>61630505
>>61630737
>>61631007
I'm gonna hope you're a troll.
>>61631078
only if the people are shit
>>61631007
>As far as I am aware, under this conditions, the inhabitants of Catalonia should be considered a minority
As far as I'm aware, you can't read for shit. Add up the population of Cataluña, Aragón, Valencia, Baleares and half of Murcia, you get a very clear majority. These are the people of Cataluña, this is their culture. They are NOT minority.
Under your logic, again, the people of Madrid are a minority because we have our own subculture completely different to anything in the peninsula.
>So you dont think minorities deserve a special protection?
No, no they don't. Minorities deserve the same treatment as the rest of the population; giving special treatment to anybody just because they are less numerous is a step backwards from progress.
Spanish
Catalunyans
Basques
pls rank them in terms of whiteness
>>61631007
Well, C.Valenciana and Baleares are part of the same culture so we can tell that Catalan culture don´t want the independece.
>>61631163
None of them are.
>>61630737
You're not informed. A few facts:
- Catalonia received massive immigration flux from the rest of Spain in the 60s (over a million Andalusians, for example). Barely over half of the population that lives in Catalonia now were born there.
- Separatists aren't the majority. They held an unconstitutional referendum and barely a third of the population voted. In the last elections separatists parties lost despite joining together as a single party to game the D'Hondt method.
- They, like every other autonomous community in Spain, have a high degree of self-government and their regional culture is promoted officially (Catalan is used at schools instead of Spanish [which is a problem for students of the rest of the country who want to study there], and also in public administration, public media...).
The only reasons they want to secede:
- Economic: they don't want to contribute to poorer regions despite benefitting from their population and resources. Ironically many separatists parties are left-wing, so much for solidarity and equality...
- Political: the corrupt Catalonian elite (Pujol, Mas, etc.), which has robbed more money than, wants Catalonia for themselves.
- Misguided gullible people that swallowed lies about a better future and are righfully angry at the current state of Spain.
Also how the fuck are they a "minority" (which is an American meme concept, btw)? They're not a different race or whatever, it's just a subset of Spain living there, with their own culture and traditions like every fucking region here.
>>61631131
No because people of Madrid and other Spanish cities are still all spanish. They all speak spanish language and have spanish culture with their own local flavour. Catalonia is different.
>No, no they don't. Minorities deserve the same treatment as the rest of the population; giving special treatment to anybody just because they are less numerous is a step backwards from progress.
In a democracy, minorities can be easily opressed by majority. Thats why they deserve special protection, otherwhise democracy will turn into a tyranny of the majority
Why doesn't Castille ask in independence from Spain? Nobody would expect that, it would be good banter.
>>61631163
Spanish is not a group.
There are castilians, catalans, basques, galicians, andalusians...
All of them are spanish.
Basques are the whitest.
>>61631163
Basques are the whitest.
The other two are pretty much identical.
>>61631266
robbed more money than anyone else in Spain*
Source: they received bribes equal to 3% of every public contract for 30 years. The Pujol family has over 3 billion euro in Andorra.
>>61631323
who are the least white?
>>61631266
>- Catalonia received massive immigration flux from the rest of Spain in the 60s (over a million Andalusians, for example). Barely over half of the population that lives in Catalonia now were born there.
Yeah and that's something one could call cultural geoncide. Same happend to Estonia, with lots of Russians moving there under Soviet rule, thats why Estonia still has many social problems with Russians in their country even today.
>>61631323
Are Andalusians generally darker?
>inb4 Galician Alberto Barbosa
The Basques don't want independence anymore?
>>61631163
Spanish and catalonians are the same, the only different ethnic group in Spain are the basques, and even them are already pretty mixed with us already.
>>61631303
Almost no one lives in Castille other than Madrid, and they're poor. Also castillian identity has been utterly destroyed.
>>61631377
Heck, same thing happened both in and to Germany. Especially because Low German and Dutch aren't protected, and Frisian & Sorbian were largely replaced.
>>61631424
Not like they used to. Only 24% want it according to latest surveys.
>>61631424
I guess 17% want the independece in a recent study. The percentage of nationalism is very high but they don´t want the independece.
>>61631377
Huh? They integrated perfectly, they were from the same country you mongoloid, they were from the same ethnicity/spoke the same language/shared the same national psyche. In fact they integrated so well that many Catalonian separatists are the sons of Andalusians and people from other regions who emigrated there.
Cultural genocide is what happened to Prussia, or what is happening to the West at large thanks to cultural marxism and third world immigration.
>>61631377
Those people now speak catalan and are culturally catalan. There's no cultural genocide.
>>61631270
Well, you are clearly either trolling or utterly retarded:
>No because people of Madrid and other Spanish cities are still all spanish
SPAIN DOESN'T EXIST. Spain is the union of the Crown of Castilla and Aragón, kingdoms that were already diverse enough because of conquest, they had their own languages and cultures; yes, in plural.
The cities of Euskadi are not the same as the cities of Andalucia, which aren't the same as the cities of Castilla which aren't the same as the cities of Galicia. I repeat: there's no such thing a "Spanish". Hell, the language you wrongly call "Spanish" is not actually that, it's castellano, as in "the language of castilla.
>They all speak spanish language and have spanish culture with their own local flavour
Not even bothering going to wikipedia? Even if you take Cataluña our of the equation, you still have 5+ languages in Spain, and again, castellano isn't even the primary language of several regions.
>Catalonia is different.
Cataluña is LITERALLY the same. Hilariously enough, the vast majority of the population speaks castellano, with catalán being the second most spoken language.
>In a democracy, minorities can be easily opressed by majority
Key word, "can", this is not the case in Spain, specially because Cataluña is one of the most powerful regions in Spain.
>Thats why they deserve special protection, otherwhise democracy will turn into a tyranny of the majority
No, just because democracy can go to shit doesn't mean minorities deserve special treatment. Get your Hitler complex back to Germany and stop shitting up our stuff.
>>61631377
You're fucking retarded.
>>61631163
>Catalonians
Basically jews, non-white
>Basques
Humanoid-like fungal entities that reproduce by spores.
>Spanish
Basically moors, non-white but superior to cucktalonians
>>61631323
False.
>>61631587
/thread
>>61629319
t. Jordi el friegaplatos
>>61631377
>cultural genocide
>Comparing "Spain" - Catalonia and Estonia - SovietRussia
Yeah you know what, can you seriously fuck off to Barcelona with your hilarious fantasies and go preach them you shit?
>>61631366
>>61631409
East Andalusians. West Andalusians are whiter because all moricos on that are where expelled. But really, you can find all type of phenotypes.
>>61631439
That's not true. Actually the bigger genetic differences in Spain/Portugal are more between East/West than North/South.
>>61629564
That's not how it works you dumb fucking cunt.
Este tiene que ser catalán emigrante porque no se puede ser tan tonto.
>>61631790
I mixed East and West andalusians here.
>>61629564
> Germany talking about respecting democracy
sensiblechuckle.jpg
>>61631658
This doesn't disprove that Spanish is a nationality that Catalans are part of Hans
>>61630202
You legitimately need to fucking kill yourself.
>>61631843
Are you from Málaga?
>>61631658
What do you mean?
From whom is that test?
>>61630202
What does the German constitution say about letting a part of Germany become independent?
Are independentist parties allowed in the Bundestag?
Just wondering.
>>61631911
No, I'm from Ávila.
>>61631878
It's mine. All my family is from a town 300 km away from Africa itself. Yet not a single drop of moor blood.
>Muh basques are white
>>61631986
that is not Andalusia.
>>61632017
I don't know what's sadder, that you take /int/ memes about moor blood seriously or that you take 23andMeme's test seriously, when it's nothing more that a muh-heritage scam for burgers. Either way kill yourself.
>>61630706
>First of all I don't think most of the catalans want to leave Spain. Second, that is something that would affect the whole Spain, so it's the whole Spain who has to decide on it. It wouldn't be fair for the rest of spaniards to ignore their oppinion on something that affects them directly.
So the UK can use this same argument to keep Scotland and NI in line?
>>61632247
t. Nigger Niggerez
>>61632247
In what way is it a scam? It accurately shows you where your DNA comes from.
We want independence
>>61632269
Yes, they could.
>>61632269
Yes, but the argument isn't as strong because of devolution.
>>61630202
Fuck off German scum.
>>61632269
>>61632373
>>61632408
That doesn't matter. We have a constitution that says the nation is indivisible and if we don't chage this article they can't be independent.
>>61632358
From what?
>>61632335
He either bought it and got 90% north african or cannot afford it.
>>61632612
Well its sorta the same for Scotland, as the 1707 Acts of Union binds the countries together forever and unless that is changed in the UK parliament, Scotland can't leave
>>61632890
Parliament previously agreed to let Scotland leave if they voted to do so.
>>61632335
It can more or less be accurate for big continents, but apart from that... only 8% of French and German genes are recognised as such according to https://www.23andme.com/en-int/ancestry_composition_guide/
>>61632975
I doubt they will do so again so soon, especially not if they know that there is a high chance that Scotland might leave.
>>61633212
They parliament doesn't need to vote on it again. The permission is already there.
>>61633337
I think the powers that were granted to Scotland to call for the referendum were automatically transferred back to Westminster. They don't permanently have the powers to withdraw unilaterally. They have limited authority that applies to internal Scottish affairs only. All other powers concerning the UK as a whole sits with Westminster. Kind of like you and the whole Texas situation.
>>61629319
Fuck off Jordi, don't come here anymore
Stay there peace of shit
>>61632358
>gib
>>61634250
No, please take him back
We have enough of those diaspora-shills already
>>61632657
Spain
