AMA
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You are currently reading a thread in /int/ - International
You are currently reading a thread in /int/ - International
Ask a Catalan anything. Avoid the independence thing. I'm not interested.
I couldn't sleep this night, so I'm slightly dizzy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ptkR17xbI
What aniime should i watch
>>61579252
Naoki Urasawa's "Monster"
Should turtles be given the right to vote? Name 5 reasons why they should or not participate in elections.
>>61579237
Why are Basques so much cooler than you?
>>61579291
They should not because they:
1- Are slow
2- Don't think much
3- Can't speak
4- Are reptiles
5- Are Evil
Go away evil turtler
>>61579237
Are you a cool guy?
I'm doing the Camino de Santiago in September. I'm twenty years old and speak moderate spanish. Any advice? I also have no interest in going to Catalonia. I want to go to Madrid and see the Valle De Los Caidos though.
>>61579237
post catalán bitches
or are they the same as iberian generic women?
>>61579319
They are not. But I admit that they were quite based when they skullfucked Charlekek.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Roncevaux_Pass
>>61579341
Hmm, interesting. Thanks.
I think you're racist against turtles, though.
Barça o espanyol?
Are Catalans really just Castilians in denial?
What are your opinions of Andorra and Portugal.
Also don't they speak Catalan in one of the island chains that's part of spain by africa? Baleares? Azores or is that Portugal. Canaries? Is canaries and balearas the same?
Should I bother to learn Catalán? I already speak Spanish, French and Portuguese and there's no point learning it just for holidays since you all speak Spanish. Is there any fantastic literature or history that I'd miss out on by not speaking this language?
>>61579437
Baleares are to the East of Spain and the Canaries are down by Morocco. They mostly speak the Mallorcan and Menorcan dialects, which are similar to Catalán but not identical
>>61579345
That depends on the definition of "cool guy". I'm shy, socially inept and don't get out much.
>>61579364
I could search some (you won't find them in google images, it's flooded with photos of filthy catalan-wannabe xarnego Spaniards with independentist flags).
But they are not for you, Pedro William Rodriguez.
>>61579437
m8 I don't know if you are memeing, but you should really take a look on Google Maps from time to time. And go to Wikipedia too if possible.
Andorra is cool. It's basically a Catalan Switzerland (Catalan is the official language).
Portugal is nice but we don't really hear much about it. Sometimes it's like nothing happened here. Also take in account that, if we think in distances, for me the neighbours are France (I can get there in less than 2 hours). Portugal is as far (or as close) as England or Germany. inb4: yurosmalls.
Catalan is poken in the Balearic Islands. They have their dialect with some different features.
>>61579592
>But they are not for you,
think you can stop me?
im next to the USA, most powerful country in the world and they cant do shit vs us
>>61579456
Learn Català (say Catalan or Català, but not in fucking in Spanish if you are talking to me in English, ffs) if you like it, not for it's "usefulness".
I guess that most of our literature is translated, but I'm not really sure of how true is that. If you like to read things in the original language, yes, there are some worthy authors. Take in account that if you acquire a high level of Catalan, you will be able to understand Occitan texts (Medieval poetry by the troubadours), not only the specifically Catalan ones.
>>61579352
Be prepared. Long journey. Your feet will suffer.
>>61579401
I don't like football.
>>61579419
No, we are not.
>>61579592
spoken*
>>61579631
>but not in fucking Spanish if you're talking to me in English ffs
Autocorrect brah - chill
>>61579592
Not so cool then.
What is the difference between catalans and other spanish?
>>61579615
>they can't do shit vs us
Watch yourself, dont want the Mexican cessation to happen again
>>61579237
How is Valencia different to Catalonia
Don't you both speak Catalan
>>61579708
more like american annexation cuckman
>>61579736
Obvious. That still doesn't mean shit becuase you're not going to over populate the white anytime soon. Thats only for immigrants.
>>61579720
Fun fact, the Valencians insist their language is the same to the point that official government documents in Valencia are printed in Castillian, Catalan and Valencian translations, but no one has ever been bothering to make a Valencian version, they just print the catalan version twice and put Valencian at the top of the page
>>61579694
Language, origin, history. Basically everything. We started "sharing" things only after (about) the late 15th century.
If we had anything in common is religion and that we spoke a Romance language. (with a lot of differences in that aspect too. If Castillian is heavily arabized, Catalan is very Gothified).
>>61579720
Yes, we both speak Catalan. (They prefer to call it "Valencian" when they refer to their variant). Valencia is reconquested territory during the mandate of Jaume I "The Conqueror" (King of Aragon, Count of Urgell and Barcelona, amongst other titles) in the 13th century.
The population has been historically much more mixed, since it's conquest, with aragonese people and castillians since it's conquest, so their variant of Catalan and culture has been more "Castillianized".
>>61579828
I can confirm this. There are Valencian retards that deny that Catalan and Valencian are the same language. We call them "blavers" ("bluers"), because they were defenders of putting the blue band on the senyera (our common flag). They do it as a "wewuz" (the kingdom of Valencia), but mostly for making it different from our flag.
>>61579693
o.k. m8
have a song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNEVQaF6VDQ
>>61579925
ahh interesting. I thought you were just some special snowflakes.
>>61579828
>>61579925
>>61579941
Why are they so autistic?
They're like what Montenegrins are to Serbians
>>61579925
*I repeated "since it's conquest"* Sorry.
>>61579999
Sometimes they are stereotyped as drug addicts, close-minded, whiny people.
How old are you and what do you work with? Do you have a gf?
do you know mariona?
>>61580111
I'm 19. I study Engineering informatics.
>>61580149
Yeah that's a name here. Which Mariona?
>>61580166
Do you enjoy it? Why did you choose to study that?
>>61579828
The Friega
>>61580166
masllorenz ruiz
so hot
I've heard he is very popular there.
>>61580180
GET. THE. FUCK.
OUT
>>61580176
I've always liked computers. And I've spent way too many hours on them. So I thought it would be a good decision to turn my hobby-lifedestroyer into a good thing.
btw check this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaI1eYUbTJg
It's a Swedish adaptation of a Catalan song.
I have always thought that the prosody of Catalan is similar to Scandi languages.
I don't like this song in particular, but I think it's a good example. The lyrics are a literal translation.
>>61580204
No, I don't know her.
>>61580244
Yep, he is. Anime in general is popular. There are many dubbed animes. I think we are the "Capital of Anime" of Spain.
so catalonia is a part of barcelona? that's it?
so catolonia is a buffer region between moors and frogs? that's it?
>>61580346
No, it's not.
>>61580399
We are neither of the two.
>>61580502
mariona told me catalonia is just a part of city of barcelona
you are lying bitch
>>61580306
What are your other hobbies?
nice song, post something sung in catalan.
>"Capital of Anime" of Spain.
Did they show silverfang there? It was popular here in sweden.
>>61580553
did you remember to take your bedtime pills Chang?
>>61579237
would you rather join France than stay with Asspain if independence cannot be achieved?
>>61580617
did you remember to prep your bull and bend down for kike cock today, Bob?
>>61580572
>silverfang
Not that one :/
I like music, I like researching about languages and history. Movies and good TV shows, Flight simulation, Science...
Songs in Catalan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YE4eJvkeyk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU13ToUMpCc (this one has a 15th century Valencian poem as lyrics)
>>61580617
I never said I want independence in this thread. But hypothetically, I would prefer France. But with a lot of conditions. They are better than Spaniards at killing regional languages.
>>61580572
>>61580745
Another song. This is a medieval one. It's very old. (Nobody knows how old for sure. But it's pre-14th century)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNEVQaF6VDQ
The band that plays it is Czech. They have a funny accent but do it very well.
>>61579391
All reptiles are naturally brn evil
>>61580572
I also randomnly found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whl1_fPknC8
It's a Catalan legend. It's not translated. But that way you can hear how it sounds while spoken.
Tell me about your interests m8.
>>61580745
>>61580828
>>61580950
I am going to the store but I will listen when I come back.
>>61579237
How will the north korea vs west conflict end?
>>61581090
I'll be here :)
>>61581207
Is there such conflict?
>>61580797
Why wouldn't you want independence? Why would you want your regional language killed off? What the hell would that achieve?
>>61581574
Catalan isn't dying because of the actions of Spaniards. I mean, they try. But we've been Speaking this for 1000 years. They've been trying to kill it for 400. With no success.
What's killing my language, today, not by gross numbers, but above anything, by quality, is immigration. From Spain, Latinamerica and Africa. We have the highest immigration rate in Spain, in level with the "cuck" countries of Europe (I often joke about this: I say it's the proof that we are more European than the rest of Spaniards)
The independentist parties are all pro-immigration. If we got independence, this problem could grow even more.
There's also the economical issue. Of course, this is related to immigration. But there are additional problems, like the fact that about half of our exports are sold to Spain.
Exports would crash, companies would exit Catalonia and go to Madrid...
Just imagine an augmented "brexit", but with a country much less prepared to handle the consequences.
>>61581327
Catalan music was noice desu. I am listening to the first one now.
>>61580828
There is something in this one that makes me think of some scandi language.
>>61582275
:)
I'm not sure what it is. Maybe it's the rythm we use to speak, the high number of monosyllabic words, the similar way latin derivates are sometimes done, and of course a good number of germanic cognates (Not in this song tho. Germanic words are usually for "everyday things", not anything liturgical)
The melody helps I guess, it differs from stereotypical southern-europe music.
I don't know if it sounds scandi, I'm not an expert. But I always thought, humbly, that it's different.
>>61582461
It does not really sound scandi completely but there similarites in toning and stuff. You are our long lost brothers.
Do they really ENS ROBEN?
Or is it that we must learn how to share?
>>61579237
What do you think of Scotland? From what you said here, >>61582002, it sounds like a lot of the problems we'd have with independence are extremely similar.
>>61582691
I would love to know who were the Goths that came here after the creation of the Catalan Counties by the Frankish Empire.
Where were they before coming here? What was their situation?
We know the names of all of our Counts were (who were obviously their leaders) were, and the things they did. But we don't know anything about their ancestors. The Counties seem to be "war rewards" for fighting the moors (some say for fighting Normans too. But there is no historical proof for that and I don't believe it, considering we had good relations with them for the rest of the time).
>>61582935
Scotland is very nice. I'd love to visit it. I've heard about what you say. You are also flooded with "cucknationalists", right? What do you think about your independence?
Do you guys really beat a log and tell it to shit on Christmas?
>>61583145
We know the names of all of our Counts* (rogue "were"s everywhere)
>>61583158
Yes. I posted that one or two days ago in a Mythology thread.
It's a Yule log that shits. Absolutely demoniacal. Absolutely hillarious.
>>61582755
I suggest the North of Spain (Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria, Euskadi and Catalunya) separates from the South.
The economical status could be decent. And we could all happily live our egotistical mini-nations lifes.
Needless to say, but: Aragon for being Castille's whore.
>>61583245
Aragon is excluded for being Castille's whore*
What did you think of the last Iggy Pop album? Was David Bowie killed by kikes? How long is your benis?
I have to go to the shop. I hope the thread doesn't die :/
>>61583145
>cucknationalists
It's a weird situation. Our leaders (the Scottish nationalists) are complete lying snakes, and experts at political maneuvering. They run on a platform of socialism and liberalism, but when they get into parliament, they are conservative and authoritarian.
Whilst most Scots are against the authoritarian intrusion into our private lives, most appreciate the conservative values. However, due to what Margaret Thatcher did in the 80s with de-industrialisation, conservatism has become a taboo word in Scotland, meaning that although many Scots think that way, they hide it or they get abused for "agreeing with Thatcher".
In the sense that they are pro-immigration, especially with regards to those who lack Western values, whilst also being nationalist, yes, they are "cucknationalists".
>What do you think about your independence?
Having an EU border with the rest of the UK is unthinkable, and I can't believe our leaders are so retarded as to try and get back into the EU whilst the rest of the UK will not. We could go the way of Iceland and Norway - leave the EU, but keep access to the single market through the EFTA - we'd almost have our own little trade triangle in the North Sea, which would be cute.
I was for independence, but not anymore - not under the current circumstances. Now is a time for unity, and staying with the rest of the UK to ensure we get a solid deal out of leaving the EU, even though it might be difficult.
>>61583353
I'll keep an eye on it for you lad.
>>61583158
It's called El tio de nadal, or Christmas log. It shits candies, minor presents and the like after you beat it chanting a tipical song for that purpose. They did a solidary thing that seems sort of a satanic cult or something.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcHyRPaEfd8
>>61583383
I'm not even Scottish and I think you'd be mad to vote to stay in a country where you have 0 political voice and where politics and economy are becoming increasingly centralised around London. The tories have devastated my part of the world too, voting to stay in the UK means tacitly consenting to their draining of your resources, domination of your politics and complete ignorance of your country. A vote to stay is a vote for the tories
>>61582002
If you're anti-immigration and use phrases like cuck-countries unironically why the he'll would you want to be part of France?? Have you been to France? Their immigration is even higher than ours
Ask an immigrant in Catalonia anything
>>61583801
>0 political voice
Scotland has a large, unified voice in the UK Parliament, and both there, and in terms of devolution, we have it much, much better than the Welsh, Cornish or other regions in England outside London. Despite what I said about the SNP, they definitely make sure Scotland gets its value from the UK Parliament.
>A vote to stay is a vote for the tories
I'm hoping that in the light of Brexit, there's some thought given to federalising the UK so that London does not have such a large voice. Many Scots still feel incredibly British, and look on independence as a final, reluctant solution.
>>61583961
Do you speak Catalã
>>61583961
Why are you here, if you are black or moor you could go to france, if latino to other parts of Spain. Other europeans and asians are welcomed tough, they have actually cool cultures.
>>61584006
>>0 political voice
>Scotland has a large, unified voice in the UK Parliament
But if it's not a party you are entirely in agreement with then surely it's all for n'en? Would it not be better to have an independent Scottish parliament where you could vote for the party you actually supported and be sure they had your best interests at heart and not the interests of their partymates in England?
>we have it much, much better than the Welsh, Cornish or other regions in England outside London.
Don't I fucking know it. t. Cornishman. Part of my hopes for an independent Scotland is to stir up support for home rule here, at least Scotland hasn't had its culture and identity eroded by northern pensioners hoping to retire by the sea and Londoner tourists who don't give a fuck about the region beyond the fact it's a bit warmer.
>I'm hoping that in the light of Brexit, there's some thought given to federalising the UK so that London does not have such a large voice.
No chance, English Nationalism and anti-London sentiment is rife at the moment. Outside of Cornwall and Yorkshire I can't think of any English regions that would accept such a solution. It would be seen as giving London even more power and separation where I live.
I voted remain, I'd be happy to take a leap into the unknown if I thought there was a slight chance it would improve our situation but leaving the only political organisation who actually recognise our existence was not the right leap.
>>61580834
Wow rude
>>61580306
>I've always liked computers. And I've spent way too many hours on them. So I thought it would be a good decision to turn my hobby-lifedestroyer into a good thing.
tBh this is recipe for failure in computer science. programs made by other people are one thing, the inner workings of the computer are a completely different one. how are you doing with it though?
>>61584274
>But if it's not a party you are entirely in agreement with then surely it's all for n'en? Would it not be better to have an independent Scottish parliament where you could vote for the party you actually supported
That's one good thing that would come out of independence - the end of the SNP. There are huge divisions within the party, and it's only kept together by the promise of independence.
>t. Cornishman
Sorry lad. London's power hurts us all in one of the most centralised countries in the world.
>Outside of Cornwall and Yorkshire I can't think of any English regions that would accept such a solution
And those places kicking up a fuss would be the only way I could see federalisation on the table.
>I voted remain
>leaving the only political organisation who actually recognise our existence was not the right leap
I voted Leave. I'd have wanted to stay in the EU, if there were massive reforms. But the EU won't have reforms. And so, it was better to leave.
If we were in the EU for over 300 years, my opinion might have been difference. There would be much more shared history. That's why I'm hesitant to break up the UK. The end of the EU is a footnote. The end of the UK is the end of an era. I feel extremely British, and extremely Scottish. I don't want to have to choose between the two.
I hope the Catalonians have this much fun when/if they finally get an indyref.
>>61579237
During Holy Week do guys wander around shooting blunderbusses and asking for food?
>>61584016
He probably knows a couple words to appear in the sweden-tier ads we make saying "Jo sóc català" (I am Catalan) or shit like that.
By the way:
>ã
Die.
>>61583942
I said:
>But with a lot of conditions.
But I get it. I agree that France is horrible in that sense.
>>61583383
Thanks for explaining. It's nice to be better informed about this.
>>61583961
Fora de les meves contrades.
>>61585447
I don't know of any Colla de Trabucaires that asks for food. I don't know where did you hear that.
And it's not in Holy Week. It's in each town's Saint festivity. Each town has it's own trabucaires.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-21aR6OVjU
>>61585596
Ah okay.
>>61579237
your country is part of this shithole called spain, itself catalunya si a shithole too
>>61585692
They are sometimes accompanied by the "Miquelets".
>>61582002
>We have the highest immigration rate in Spain, in level with the "cuck" countries of Europe
no, dont lie,
>>61585692
And each town has it's own colors and sometimes different dressings.
>>61585801
It seems that you need to end that phrase with some more information m8.
Thoughts on anarchist Catalonia?
>>61584016
Si que parlo català. It's not that hard but honestly I find it ugly.
>>61585596
I've been living here for a decade now, I know this meme language very well.
>>61584243
I'm latino and my great-great grandfathers were catalan while my other ancestors were from Cantabria, Asturias and England. I am Chilean without a drop of mestizo.
>>61585596
>Fora de les meves contrades.
Ja me n'aniré quan acabi el meu Master a un altrelloc d'Europa o al meu país d'origen.
Pro tip: Catalans are not very friendly. They have special snowflake syndrome and love to play the victim card when it's them who treat others like shit. Catalonia also has some very nationalist political leaders that try to push independence by differentiating Catalonia from the rest of Spain despite not being all that different. You really need to come from outside to see the brainwash.
>>61585934
t. Mr. I haven't spend a day out of Barcelona.
>>61585969
I live in Girona and I'd say people here are more elitist and closed minded than in Barcelona.
>>61585909
What do you mean m8? We don't even have sovereignity
>>61585999
Gironins are crazy. You have to get out more.
And don't get it wrong. The brainwashing is the opposite.
In fact, they play with that.
The main argument that independentists use is not "We are very different from Spaniards".
It is: "Spaniards are xenophobe. But we are not. Catalonia is for everyone. That's why we can't be associated with Spain".
>>61586068
pues separate, hijo de la grandisima puta, los catalnes tambien son la misma mierda que los Españoles. incluso peores
>>61586068
Public school in Catalonia is a gigantic brainwash. My little sister wouldn't be accepted by her Catalan ""friends"" until she downloaded a wallpaper of l'Estelada flag on her phone. Then she was around singing independencia just to fit in. And I'm talking about the social pressure, not even how the teachers look at you beacuse you presented a paper in Spanish instead of Catalan for science class. One can see how Catalan language class has a lot of Public resources with big books and lots of material while Spanish class lacks a lot of substance. The Generalitat has clear preferences.
What language to do you guys speak in public, and around family? Are you essentially bilingual?
>>61586264
It depends.
(I'm the OP)
Some people only use Spanish, even if they understand Catalan. They are usually of immigrant families.
I use Catalan with my family and most of my friends. (It would be very weird to speak Spanish to my parents. I'm being completely honest).
I use Spanish if needed, of course. I won't force anyone to use Catalan.
>>61586174
Pero tu entiendes ingles? Has leido algo?
why would you be dizzy if you haven't slept?
such a spanish thing to say.
Well now that all the Spaniards are out of their beds (3 p.m. here) the thread is ruined.
>>61586470
I felt a little bit sick earlier. I'm fine now. I couldn't sleep because of migraine
>>61586470
>>61586513
btw staying awake for more than 30 hours is not a medically recommended thing to do. Not in Spain. Not in fucking Iceland.
>>61586002
Was a region in the Spanish civil war.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Catalonia
>>61586874
Oh, those anarchists...
I don't like them. They were dangerous and justified their actions by self-awarded "moral authority". "Revolution", "The People"... huh...
Same as sovietic commies.
>>61586949
Is there much anarchist presence in modern day Catalonia?
>>61585412
Thanks for the thoughtful answer fàm
>>61586264
It depends, family and close friends catalan with some Spanish (Insults and the like sound better in Spanish), wiht other set of friend the think can change,but mostly Catalan and Spanish mixing freely.
>>61579237
When will you admit that you are a colony?
>>61588492
Some. But it's the typical progressivist "anarchist" or commie. Fucktards, essentially. There's a lot of leftism like in most of the Western world. (much more than Spain overall)
A common "anarchist" thing are the okupas. There are a lot in Barcelona. They are squatters. And highly problematic and political.
>>61579237
what do you think about occitan
>>61579736
>bhutan
what did he mean by this
>>61579237
General elections 2016 in Catalonia.
Votes for the separatists: 32,09%.
JajajJJjajJAJJAJJajajajjJAJJAIAUAJUAJajauja
I hope you start receiving 100k southAmericans per year in order to assimilate you even more.
>>61592508
It's our "sister language". It's very sad that its use has declined so much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RpHLRRN9BE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk2nUMVxb58
>>61592770
That's got to be the risk. It's like where I live they keep moving in foreigners and little Englanders to dilute the locals
>>61586188
This is why people like me, being bona fide democrats and being fine with countries fucking their shit up with referendums a la Brexit, are not okay with a referendum in Catalunya. I would be okay to have one in Euskadi but not there, not with a corrupted school system like that. Democracy isn't just voting, is having freedom to have different opinions and that's not happening in Catalunya. Even Orwell warned us about them back in the Civil War
>>61584429
underrated post
>>61583145
Why don't you know anything about their ancestors? No written records?
Would an independent catalonia be a republic?
What do Catalans think of Franco?
Is the Sagrada Familia considered ugly?
Ever read Orwell's Homage to Catalonia?
>>61599424
(Not OP)
>Would an independent catalonia be a republic?
Abolutely
>What do Catalans think of Franco?
Ugly manlet, enforced a lot of repression in Catalonia
>Is the Sagrada Familia considered ugly?
Not at all
>Ever read Orwell's Homage to Catalonia?
I think it's more popular outside of Catalonia than here. I haven't read it and don't know anywone who has, is it a good book?
>>61600278
I enjoyed it, it has clear leftist/republican sympathies so it might not be very popular on this website, but he's very critical (rightfully so, I say this as a "leftist") of the Republic for many of it's shortcomings.
That's also why I asked about the Sagrada Familia, Orwell wrote (tongue in cheek) that the CNT showed poor taste by sparing that yet destroying many other churches.
What's more likely, a third Spanish Republic or an independent Catalunya? Are the anti-independence Catalans generally republican? How is the king seen by most people?
>>61600417
Thanks for the answer, i'll make sure to give it a try
La Sagrada familia is really huge and filled with detailed ornaments so some people may disliked but it's not generally considered ugly. Nowadays it's considered a never ending construction and, first and foremost, a tourist trap.
Monarchy is losing support with each new generation so in a few decades i'm sure it will be abolished. I would say there is a social consensus regarding it's excessive cost and lack of usefulness.
An independant catalonia is much harder in my opinion. The actual goverment in Catalonia is fully pro-independence but the spanish political and law situation makes a referendum impossible to happen. Moreover the support of independence is around 50% so it's not a strong majority.
Anti-independence Catalans are a really varied group, Some are republican and some support the current situation but monarchy is not a big deal here.
The new king is a bit better regarded than it's predecessor. At least he can speak english and has university studies. I would say he is kind of liked even if most people agree that monarchy doesn't make any sense
>>61600278
>is it a good book?
It's amazing, but despite the name the catalonians don't come off well
bumping for meme iberians
Spain is a trully I wish my region (Basque country)get the independence
>>61607128
Trully shithole *
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH QUINA RÀBIA, NO HA HAVIA VIST AQUEST FIL FINS ARAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!
Me'l vaig a llegir tot, espero no acabar "triggered"
>>61607251
well I just read it and got trigerred, congrats you meme-spouting retards
>>61584429
Are you hiding something?
>>61602579
I felt like he portrayed the Spaniards (I know you guys aren't really Spanish, but he lumped Catalans in) in general very well, if a bit stereotypical, in spite of the deep violence and divides.
“I have the most evil memories of Spain, but I have very few bad memories of Spaniards.”
>>61610298
>(I know you guys aren't really Spanish,
Look, I'm all for them being independent and all, but they are just as Spanish as the rest, they are just special snowflakes.
>>61610403
They've always struck me as being just as Spanish as the Portuguese.
>>61610459
Ethnically the same, and, besides the language, you'd be hard-pressed to tell us apart.
Portuguese are the same, regardless of what they say.
A thousand years of being neighbourgs does that.
>>61610525
Are you aware that Catalans avoided marrying Spaniards until the last 50 years?
The first question your parents would ask if you told them that you met a girl/boy was: Is she Catalan or Castillian? (Castillian was a generical name for people from non-Catalanophone regions)
Saying that we are the same is very pretentious. Remember that Barcelona (which is highly culturally dead as a Catalan city) is not the same as going to areas were the local characteristics are better kept.
>>61611168
>Are you aware that Catalans avoided marrying Spaniards until the last 50 years?
Are you aware that that is stupid? No matter how much Pujol wants you to believe otherwise.
>The first question your parents would ask if you told them that you met a girl/boy was: Is she Catalan or Castillian? (Castillian was a generical name for people from non-Catalanophone regions)
This is no proof, just prejudice.
>Saying that we are the same is very pretentious
It's not pretentious, it's the truth. The only way people even know that I have basque and catalan blood is when they hear my surnames, otherwise it's impossible to tell.
>Remember that Barcelona (which is highly culturally dead as a Catalan city) is not the same as going to areas were the local characteristics are better kept.
Having rural areas that have better preserved their genetic make up doesn't mean we are not the same. Unlike with the Brits or Germans, I cannot tell catalanes or castellanos a part.
t. mom is mestiza from catalán -probably French rape babies considering the surname- and vasca and looks just like every other madrileña around here.
>>61611284
>No matter how much Pujol wants you to believe otherwise.
Pujol didn't say this. I know this because my family told me. And trust me, they're much more passive than me regarding this issue. They don't lie.
Madrid is very diverse, not a good example to classify people in.
I could accept that you tell me that Catalans, Castillians, Aragonese... Are more or less similar
But you are telling me that we are -literally by magic genetic forces- the same as fucking Andalusians or Extremeños? Because they are also Spaniards, in case you forgot.
>>61611284
>combination of two types of white people
>mestizo
kys
Most Europeans are a broad mixture of everything from Lisbon to Moscow, just with one area being heavy in particular. Look at anyone's 23andme tests.
>>61611383
>They don't lie.
They might not be trying to lie, but it's utterly impossible for neighbours of 1000 years to no have mixed; you are using the españolazo logic of "we don't have ANY muslim blood even though we have been living with each other for centuries".
>Madrid is very diverse, not a good example to classify people in.
No, Madrid is not "very diverse", we have people from all around the peninsula, but we are not on the Barcelona/Sweden train.
>I could accept that you tell me that Catalans, Castillians, Aragonese... Are more or less similar
Which we are, to the point that we are the same.
>But you are telling me that we are -literally by magic genetic forces- the same as fucking Andalusians or Extremeños? Because they are also Spaniards, in case you forgot.
you are using andalucian as "moro", which, regardless of memes, is not always true. Yes, those very clearly gypsy moros in Cádiz are very obviously not the same race as me, but pretending to say that Jusep i Lleida and Manolo García aren't the same race is quite outrageouus.
Oh, and using andalucians as "different" race hurts you argument, because cataluña nowadays is andalucía 2.0, you yourself must know that.
>>61611421
>>combination of two types of white people
>>mestizo
>
>kys
My ameridumb friend, "mestizo" means "half-breed" in Spanish, it was you, anglos, who turned it into "European + something else".
>Most Europeans are a broad mixture of everything from Lisbon to Moscow, just with one area being heavy in particular. Look at anyone's 23andme tests.
Refer to what I just said. Hell, look at the other guy's response, he knows what I mean, because the anglo definition of that Spanish word is incorrect.
>>61611514
Andalusians won't be Catalan, ever. Or you are the kind of person that thinks that you are Catalan just by living here?
>>61611564
>Andalusians won't be Catalan, ever
Oh, the moro ones won't, but that doesn't change the fact that cataluña is going to be -if it isn't already- a mestizo region of andaluces and catalanes.
>Or you are the kind of person that thinks that you are Catalan just by living here?
No, I'm very clearly talking about mestizaje, not this "new identity" stuff that seems to be going on in cataluña.
Siguen los jovenes sin trabajo o la economia española mejoro en 2016?
>>61611668
I guess you will at least agree with me on one thing:
Modern Catalan separatism has done a lot of damage, because they want to push this idea of an "open, modern nation".
It's interesting to see how Catalan XX century nationalism was much more Catalanist (in the sense that they really wanted to keep a Catalan identity), anti-immigration, and sometimes racialist. It was, at the same time, non-separatist, monarchist, conservatist, and defended a Spanish state were regional identities were not surpressed.
Now the Catalan """nationalists""" want a Southern Europe Sweden
>>61611853
>Modern Catalan separatism has done a lot of damage, because they want to push this idea of an "open, modern nation".
Well, I don't know if that is a consequence of separatism, but it's definitely pretty dominant among left-wing parties, which disgusts me. I have never been to Barcelona, but having a grandfather from there, I always thought about it, but seeing and reading stuff about the city has me worried.
>It's interesting to see how Catalan XX century nationalism was much more Catalanist (in the sense that they really wanted to keep a Catalan identity), anti-immigration, and sometimes racialist
Back then there wasn't this idea that immigration is ALWAYS good. Hell, I have friends who have fallen to this idea that having border control is a fascist ideal, which also disgusts me.
> It was, at the same time, non-separatist, monarchist, conservatist, and defended a Spanish state were regional identities were not surpressed
I don't know about "non-separatist", cataluña has always been fighting for freedom, don't forget Felipe II send the entire army there already by the 1600s.
I am more inclined to believe in "defended a Spanish state", because the defeat of Napoleón brought the birth of nationalism in Spain, and while it lasted very little, I could believe a reactionary cataluña being in favour of Spain instead of that France.
>Now the Catalan """nationalists""" want a Southern Europe Sweden
i don't know all separatist parties, but it's pretty sure to me that the general sentiment is exactly that: make cataluña everything BUT catalana without the very separatist realizing it.
I want to see a n independent Cataluña, but the though of it becoming a shell of what it fought for scares me. I've already seen Castilla lost its identity and being mistaken with Andalucía, I don't want to see the other españas going through the same.
>>61579237
>Avoid the independence thing
Its literally the only reason to give a fuck about you.
>>61612123
>Ireland
>Redhead potato-devourers not being ruled by England
Who is best keion?
>>61612059
All the separatist parties are like that. Even Convergència, which is allegedly center-right, is an immigrant-lover party.
I think there was a left-wing separatist anti-immigration party, but it doesn't have representation anywhere.
