>population has to keep rising to keep the economy going
>who is going to take care of our old people?
When will this meme end. It seems like japan is the only smart country replacing rising population with machines. Countries like Germany are c.ucking themselves so hard by keeping this model. Its an inevitability that robots will take 99% of jobs in the future so why isn't any country preparing for it?
>>61362870
This is now a weeb thread
>>61362870
> It seems like japan is the only smart country replacing rising population with machines.
It's happening in north america too. I've been to one mcdonalds with self serve machines.
>>61362870
Really makes you think huh..
>>61363080
it does. 2008 was a japanese inside job.
>>61362870
It's more "who's gonna pay pensions for the old hags" than "who will take care of them".
>living to the point you're a burden on others
Gov' should just make a tax evasion clause for suicide so it isn't illegal.
>>61363147
The smart thing to do would be tax businesses, not create more old hags later down the line. Because then how will you pay THEIR pensions?
It would just create a feedback loop of ever increasing pensioners.
>>61363080
Im talking about maintaining a society without increasing population and actually decreasing it. Obviously that means trade and literally everything else will go down.
>>61362870
I'm glad I'm not the only one that has gotten wise to the scam.
Large employers want to keep the pool of workers large so that wages can be depressed and the current cult of economic says that you gotta have a gorillion people and that growth is always a good thing.
Unchecked population growth only leads to instability and chaos. China has problems, but it would be a famine and poverty enslaved shithole if they didn't institute their one child policy years ago.
>>61363310
Sure, economic activity would go down, and GDP would go down, etc. but quality of life would improve FOR EVERYONE ON THE PLANET.
Between life extension becoming a major field and automation eliminating jobs, there is really zero reason to be growing the population at this point.
>>61363257
>Bring the poles and eastern euros in while they're young
>Send em home before they're old
Classic perfidiousness
>>61363257
>profits are shrinking because there are less and less workers
>tax the shit out of the few remaining profits (at the detriment of the workers) to feed a majority of useless people
It's not sustainable.
>>61363412
>>profits are shrinking because there are less and less workers
>Meanwhile every 1st world country on Earth has unemployment issues.
>>61363178
Or at least stop pushing people to stop smoking and eat healthy.
The longer you live the more you cost, and the costs are ridiculous.
Of course the medical and pharmaceutical industry want you to live to 100 especially if you are a pill devouring, hip breaking, heart surgery mess for the last 30 years of it.
>>61363461
Actually the uk is widely regarded to have pretty much reached "full employment" probably other nations too
>>61363257
>where to put the hags?
There is a solution.
>population has to keep rising to keep the economy going
Productivity has to keep rising to keep the economy going.
>who is going to take care of our old people?
Privately managed retirement funds.
No country would complain about a stable population or small growth. High growth has its own problems.
The first biggest change will be the Transportation industry. Its undeniable that in the future all cars will be automated. All of those millions of people that drive taxis, buses, semi trucks will be out of jobs. The world IS heading toward 99% unemployment and we are not ready. As much of a fan of capitalism and working hard giving you a better life I don't think there is any other way to deal with this other than socialism.
>>61363402
Sending them home won't deprive them from their rights to get pensions if they paid their taxes (if they had a state-funded pension).
There are a lot of English pensionneers in France who get their pension from England (and who are very worried by the consequences of the Brexit on their pension, too).
I can't believe the population exploded like this
>>61363521
by throwing hundred of thousands people into the "disabled" list who don't have to seek a job and don't count as jobless, and by developping part-time jobs to their maximum
>people call eskimos primitive
>they were always aware that old people should be culled
WHY DIDN'T WE LISTEN?
>>61363080
Because Japan rose too much in 1985-95.
And the chart is USD base. Japanese live with YEN. The chart of YEN base is not like the big up and down.
>>61364232
This is GDP (PPP) chart of YEN base.
This fits the feel of my life.
when will this meme end? every example of japanese automation i've seen has been some disneyland animatronics tier worthless garbage. automation would absolutely be visible in raw gdp but japan underperform everyone else.
>>61363035
japan has had these for decades (not touch screen) though
>>61364232
it says usd on the side in your picture
>>61364352
Japan leads robotics in terms of home use type applications, mainly because they need them for elderly care services.
When it comes to manufacturing robots, surprisingly China leads in terms of adoption rates.
>>61364333
Except Japan had negative real growth in 2014 because of inflation.
Yen denominated growth is meaningless. Real growth is what matters.
The reason I posted $/¥ is because I was making a point that Japan's economy has stagnated in the 90's.
>>61364447
>home use type applications
What do you mean? I'm pretty sure that's Korea. Like electric bidets? Those will really free up some labor!
>When it comes to manufacturing robots, surprisingly China leads in terms of adoption rates.
Exactly. Basically you industrial automation vs robot vacuum cleaners and sex robots, which are more meaningful.
>>61364447
Nothing says Japan has to go full Germany or America.
But Japan doesn't have enough young people to encourage current investment for future growth. This is a fact.
Each Japanese worker has to care for 2 Japanese dependents.
Even Abe's government after a lot of resistance has started expanding its work-visa program. Now Flip nurses are allowed to work in Japan to care for old people.
>>61364597
>which are more meaningful.
What?
Industrial automation is far more important.
>>61364352
Japan or at least Tokyo has quite a lot of automation, it's just not the glamorous type, it's vending machines and ATMs instead of robots.
>>61364597
*basically you have industrial...
>>61364663
Well there you have it. Which Japans pretty much sucks in nowadays.
>>61364597
>What do you mean? I'm pretty sure that's Korea. Like electric bidets?
I mean like light use, multi-purpose robots. Basically what most people think of when they hear "robot".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM5aGm2slXY
>>61364703
It has had vending machines for maany decades. The labor they free up is so ridiculously small as to be irrelevant.
>>61364729
Oh okay. I understand now.
>>61364732
LMAO thats hilarious. These preprogrammed all walk robots in japan have been in exactly the same state since the 80s basically. Maybe now we have those stupid robot vacuum cleaners and lawnmovers. Does Japan have them too? Honda asimo isn't supposed to do anything besides walk a preprogrammed path. Anything by Boston Dynamics just blows it or its kin out of the water I just don't get this japan robot XD meme.
>>61364779
I didn't say it was effective.
>>61364352
cars are all going to be automated soon. you would have to be an idiot to not see a future were automation is good enough. They don't even have to be that good. Humans constantly make mistakes, need breaks, and can't work 24/7. Why make people work 40 hours a week when a robot can work 168 hours a week?
>>61364839
It can do simple tasks like serve food and drinks, open doors, fetch objects.
Sure Boston Dynamics is superior in every way, but a Boston Dynamics robot is easily an order of magnitude more expensive.
It's also complete overkill. Atlas can fucking punch a hole in a cinderblock wall, you don't need that kind of high power hydraulics for home use applications.
>>61364839
>I just don't get this japan robot XD meme.
Japanese robots look cooler. That's literally it.
>>61364877
Even a computer needs downtime.
op here
this thread isn't about japan or robots being used today, its about the future and the inevitability of 99% unemployment.
this video sums up what im talking about
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
Japanese think current population is too many for the land size of Japan.
Self-sufficiency rates of energy and food are very low. It's a risk for national security.
So decreasing of population is rather better for Japan.
I know GDP is related with population. I don't care GDP so much with the reason for the security.
>>61364941
it doesn't need 16 hours inbetween shifts
>>61364985
Westerners don't know problem of population density. They don't talk it.
>>61364985
>Low birth rate: check
>Increasingly large pensioner population: check
Who will support these pensioners before they die?
>>61364963
Can you believe there are still shit economists that insist that advances in technology will create jobs at a rate to match those lost to automation? I saw one insist this in an interview recently and these are the people who are driving our current growth-at-all-costs economic policy.
Since when did increasing the GDP become more important than our citizens' happiness?
>>61364985
Measuring prosperity by GDP is a false idol. You should measure prosperity by how happy and comfortable your citizens are.
>>61365066
There is no happiness without economic security.
>>61365106
GDP has nothing to do with individual economic security, merely the level of activity within a system.
>>61364877
I think we can all agree on the future. I'm just dispelling that automation is something japan does well or even decently. If unskilled immigration has benefits now and those same jobless immigrants are going to be sustained in the future with automation, what exactly are we doing wrong and Japan right?
Alphabet proprietary car fleets doesn't mean japan or tesla or uber (lol) can just waltz in use them for free.
>>61364929
Yeah and Pirates of the Caribbean ride in Disneyland the puppets could fight and drink alcohol, wow. So many actors out of jobs!
>>61364985
Admit you're just voluntarily exterminating yourself before China can do it.
>>61365140
No man is an island, we're all tied to the state of our wider economy to a lesser or greater degree.
>>61365066
People have a false idea that the only thing that can drive an economy is consumerism, therefor if the number of consumers doesn't increase, the economy cannot grow.
I doubt they really believe that automation will create more jobs than it take, but they have to repeat the line because population stagnation is just not an option in the current economic system.
>>61364877
>cars are all going to be automated soon.
Most of the vehicles in the world still don't have electric windows or air conditioners.
>>61364963
Kill yourself and your shitty conspiracy theory.
>>61364985
Agreed. But the fertility rate at least needs to be 1.8 again.
>>61365161
Okay?
Nothing states that higher GDP = happier citizens.
>>61365147
>So many actors out of jobs!
That's not at all the point I was trying to make.
The robots putting people out of jobs are the industrial manufacturing robots and self operating machinery.
>>61365103
Happiness can't be expressed mathematically for use by autists.
>>61365217
I was just drawing a parallel between the utility of Disney's 60s animatronic puppets and some toy like Honda Asimo, not that either of them actually frees up any labor.
>>61365161
What I'm trying to say is that we're approaching the problem all wrong. Current thinking is that if we simply increase activity in the system (increase GDP) that somehow MAGICALLY that will improve people's lives. The problem is that we're not seeing that. The idea that productivity and economic activity are the only things influencing happiness and creating satisfied people is false.
We're caught in a cycle of bigger, better, MORE. Instead of focusing on building strong ties within our families, communities, and nations, we're focusing on buying the latest iPhone.
At what point do we reach a level where we feel we have enough and can simply enjoy the fruits of our labor?
I'm not saying we need to live naked in communes, but I am saying we need to think about how we can improve ourselves and our nation in ways that don't involve simply being a consumer.
>>61365270
Asimo isn't a toy. It's not nearly as capable as something like Atlas, but it could genuinely be a useful product if the price point were low enough.
And again, those types of robots are basically being driven by the need for elderly care.
The automation of industry and manufacturing and other large employers is a different subset of robots entirely.
>>61365208
All the low gdp ones are utter shot.
The high ones are mostly happy barring people who were always moody
>>61365187
>most cars today
thats not the point dumbass. There is thousands of years ahead of us. What part of "the future" don't you understand? do you really think most people will be working 100 or 200 years from now? How is 3 million drivers loosing their jobs a conspiracy theory? How are cashiers getting replaced by screens and self checkout lanes. Its a reality and its getting more apparent every year.
>>61365329
Asimo barely does anything of note.
>>61365411
Self check cashiers have to be Watched by an employee(so) because customers fuck up using it often and many cases try to trick it.
>>61365453
i went to a walmart yesterday. There were 2 people overseeing 6 people checking out. That right there is already 4 less jobs needed.
>>61365503
Is it? Or would there be two lanes with three people in each? The truth is probably somewhere in between.
Some efficiency gains go towards decreasing labor costs, but some go towards increasing our standard of living.
>>61365392
Japan and South Korea and Taiwan are "developed countries" and consistently score in the lowest on "life satisfaction" surveys.
Same for Finland, Italy, and Spain.
Although I agree with you in general, his point was inaccurate.
>>61365648
WTF Finland is in the top 5 of all of those surveys.
>>61365695
Whoopsie.
I meant the shithole south of you called Estonia.
>>61367007
So you are just picking countries at the lower end of developed nations that quite logically score low when they don't really even do these surveys outside developed nations.
>>61362870
>It seems like japan is the only smart country replacing rising population with machines.
Out of necessity. They stopped making babies too early and right now they're paying the consequences.
>>61367061
>when they don't really even do these surveys outside developed nations.
What?
>>61367070
Japan is our future. American whites are 1.6 fertility.
