Why do people think Finland won the Winter War? They lost a large amount of territory, 26.000 lives, and then lost the continuation war (which led to more lost territory and deaths).
The only possible reason I can think of is because the USSR lost 100.000 more troops during the war, which is a retarded argument.
>>61004732
>what is a pyrrhic victory
>>61004732
Because they kept their independence and didn't end up as a puppet neither, you dimwit.
>>61004732
No one says they won like that. It was rather more along the lines of the USSR was way more powerful (equipment and manpower) than the Finns, and they lost more men than the Finns, and the war had lasted much longer than anyone expected. All in all it was a humiliating fiasco (at first) for the USSR and it gave Finns some national pride.
>>61004862
/thread
Finland is rightful Russian clay. I'm glad they got some of it back.
>>61005149
>that picture
the memes really are real
>>61004862
>We are still independent therefore we won guise :^)
>We still lost a lot of territory but still we won :^)
I'm sorry. I didn't know France won the Seven Years War. And Britain won the American Revolution. Hell, Germany wasn't a puppet nor was it occupied after WWI, did they win that too?
>>61005402
For small countries these kinds of things are a matter of survival
>>61004732
b-but muh k/d ratio
>>61005478
>t. 6th largest Euro country at the time including Russia
>>61005402
The world lost by letting Germany exist tbqh
>>61005681
this is one of the most stupid comments i have ever seen
>>61005402
Their original goal was to occupy the entirety of Finland and then partition us, both of which they failed at.
Remaining independent is a victory.
>>61005402
Soviet stated goal as per Molotov-Ribbentrop pact: annex Finland
Soviet results: billions of dead Russkies, minor territorial gain
>Why do people think Finland won the Winter War?
Russians invaded Estonia but they didn't displace the natives. In fact native Estonian population went up due to higher living standards and Russians modernized the country. Finns might have saved more Finnish lives if they temporarily surrendered.
Because they managed to negotiate the cession of only those territories originally demanded by the Soviets, and managed to preserve Finland's independence.
>>61005811
>>61005889
>Estonian population went up
99% Estonian in 1944, barely over 50% by 1989. Another 10 years and Russian immigrants looking for Western standards would have killed us off.
>>61005889
The Finns came out of those conflicts with Russia with relatively low numbers of casualties. Something like 8-10 times less than the Ruskies. By any definition this was a tactical victory for Finland.
Tell me again how there was a Finland Soviet Socialist Republic?
>>61005889
>they didn't displace the natives
Yeah, it's not like they mass deported Estonians to Kazakhstan and Siberia and replacing them with AIDS-ridden Slavic filth, resulting in Estonia losing about 20% of its ethnic population in the aftermath of WW2
I love men
>>61006216
this
Russians are basically filth
Also you guys should try and take your clay back
Even if it wasn't even all ethnically Finnish, just take it anyway lel
>>61004862
>didn't end up as a puppet
lel
>>61005868
>minor territorial gains
>minor
>>61005402
Russian goal was to annex Finland. Sure, they lost some shitty border provinces, but fighting off an invasion and killing a ton of the enemy to boot sounds like a successful war.
>>61005749
Great rebuttal.
>>61006128
It was a wasteful loss of life on both sides.
Finns were memeing Russians were going to send all the men to siberia and the 300,000,000 Russian soldiers were going to repopulate the country.
>>61006409
Meant 300,000
>>61005681
You're actually this assblasted?
>>61006494
He said Finland was a small country. It really isn't compared to the rest of Europe, so I responded accordingly.
>>61004732
Not being obliterated by a country that's 50 times stronger, and retaining most of its integrity, is a victory in itself.
Imagine if USA lost a war against Vietnam or something!!!
>>61004732
>Why do people think the Spartans won at Thermplyae? They all died along with their King...
>>61004862
>>61006315
There's a whole term for how much of a puppet Finland was during the cold war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization
>>61006128
Germany inflicted similar casualties on all fronts, it has more to do with the NKVD telling Russians to run onto machine guns.
>american having an opinion on european matters
>especially from decades past
They may have lost the war, but the cost was unusually high for the Russians, and they didn't accomplish all their objectives.
You would expect the Russians to crush their opposition with little difficulty. Failure to do so can constitute a form of victory for the Finns.
>>61006332
>shitty parts of Karelistan and some random chunks along the border
>not minor
This fucking thread.
Let me tell you about your country at its finest.
>>61006812
Of course we have opinions on our puppet states.
Serious question to finns (and maybe Russians):
Is the rivalry still there?
>>61006880
Well clearly they aren't minor if the Finns wanted them back so badly during the COntinuation War.
>>61006944
No. Finnbros.
>>61007022
Nope, noone likes you
>>61006694
He meant "small" as in terms of military strength and global political and economical power, not in the terms of country's total area.
Even a retard would not understand what he meant and take it fucking literally.
>>61007162
Woops,
*Even a retard would understand what he meant and not take it fucking literally.
>>61006944
technically. We've always been wary of Russia, but the opinions of Russians vary.
The negative opinions are usually due to them being important but bad tourists. Their criminals also like to run gigs here.
>>61006694
Clearly Greenland is a superpower considering it's size
>>61006944
You need to be equals to be rivals. Animals can't be said to be equal to humans so no, Russians aren't our rivals.
>>61007269
Not to mention Canada. They must be the top dogs in the Americas.
![large[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/qZ7Rqsg.jpg "large[2].jpg")
>>61007152
fascist
>>61006694
It's not about the land, it's about the population
Because Russian general commanded. All the rest Russian generals were killed by Stalin.
>>61004732
Finland prevented the Soviet Union from annexing the country, which was the point of the war. It's extremely impressive that such a small country was able to hold off the Soviets and come away with minor territorial losses.
How do you not understand this?
>>61007152
> noone likes you
I know.
>>61006806
delet
>>61005218
>>61007152
I like them
>>61007477
>Eastern European countries got annexed
>became independent after the Soviet Union collapsed
OP is right. Tens of thousands of Finns died in the war for nothing.
>>61006275
We will one day.
>>61007466
A White general. Which means Finland owns Tsarist Russia as a direct successor.
>>61007592
>became independent after the Soviet Union collapsed
Yes, because the soviet era isnt still fucking it total up for them
>>61004732
They did not win. Finns are just like Eastern Euros who revise their entire history to reflect well on them and negatively on others.
But, it's hard to argue the Soviets won.
Americans think they won the Vietnam war, even when they failed main objective and left.
>>61007592
Because we would totally be where we are now if we had about 50 years of famous Soviet Union occupation.
>>61006944
Yes. They are still occupying our lands, threatening us and planning a new invasion. They have not paid for their crimes and if anything, they seem to be proud of them.
>>61007634
He was a Russian general till the end of his life keeping the photo of the Emperor on his table until he's gone.
>>61007604
The Commonwealth of Australia (Australiansuomalaiset) pledges it's support to our closest ally in the region (Finland) for any endeavors or campaigns they go into
If Finland goes to war, then Australia goes to war
>Americans talking about defensive wars
>>61007466
>the greatest Finnish hero
>didn't even speak Finnish
You cannot make this shit up
>>61007754
We'll remember that. Thank you.
>>61007414
>>61007269
>>61007162
>>61007461
>guys says we are small
>I respond accordingly
>people cry in rage at being wrong and trying to get off on technicalities
Christ I thought this only happened in merica
>>61007859
>>61007715
So did most generals in Poland and the Baltics. Russia went Red and is to this day.
>>61007788
But he was loyal to Russian monarchy I think, not to bolshevicks and rule of Finland was a way for him to get revenge, IMHO
>>61007715
Sure, he liked the emperor and the emperor liked him, and sure, he received military training in Russia and fought in their wars but in the end he was Finnish.
Don't be like the Swedish and try to claim Mannerheim for yourselves (for slavs?).
>>61007859
kill yourself
>>61007008
>what is revenge
Seriously, just stop.
>>61007859
I feel bad for every American on this board. Your whole country is getting the reputation of idiots because the few people like this one exist.
>>61007970
He wasn't ethnically or culturally Finnish though, so I wouldn't call him Finnish. He was a great man but just not Finnish.
>>61006810
It has more to do with the Soviets being ill-equipped for winter war in rural and less developed Finland, having every officer who could pronounce Trotsky executed or purged, and the Finns waging a successful winter war.
>>61006880
If I recall, Viipuri was one of Finlands biggest and most important cities at the time. But I could be wrong.
>>61007970
He claimed himself as Gustav Karlovich, and was one of the last true Russian generals who did not betray the Empire. That's why he is so appreciated and his memorial table wax opened in Petersburg a couple days before
>>61008315
It was their second most important city
>>61007592
Compare Finland to Belarus, Ukraine, Poland, Romania, or literally any other country that was behind the Iron Curtain. Most of them are doing alright, but Finland is miles ahead of all of them in every conceivable metric. To say nothing of the 50 years they all had to suffer under Soviet influence.
>>61008370
So what? Russia went to Venus. Finns gnaw on reindeer balls.
>>61008492
>>61008492
Why are you such a statist
>>61008492
The life expectancy of Russian men is also about ten years below Finland's.
>>61008048
Great revenge, only taking the lands you lost and refusing to advance further.
>>61004732
They're still there at least, even if they lost.
Same with the Benelux, Germanshits invaded our cunts twice, fought back once and Belgium got a piece of German Africa, surrendered the second time and even cooperated, but we're still there and have our own national identities, it's all that matters in the long run.
>>61007859
Do the world a favor and just kys please
I LOOK FORWARD TO THE SECOND HYPERWAR
>>61009098
He's a big government russiaboo. Just ignore him and leave him to rot in his mom's basement
>>61008881
Hey, Belgiumbro, while you're here, can I ask how much of your country speaks German?
>>61009224
Only in 2 towns from what I've heard
>>61009224
There's a tiny strip of land on the German border and i think about 35% of that region speak German.
And in the entire country, i don't know, very little. They teach it in some high schools, but it's optional, you don't need it at all to live here.
>>61008428
This. Yet people still call it "loss".
Fucking retarded.
>>61007592
>Tens of thousands of Finns died in the war for nothing
Yeah well, that's just like, your opinion
I think it went really well
>>61009877
Strange map, no Ukraine and Poland
>>61008428
>but Finland is miles ahead of all of them in every conceivable metric
>in every conceivable metric
>miles ahead
Have you actually visited any of the former Iron Curtain countries and Finland included or what you just said is based on the information you have read on /int/ and wikipedia?
''miles ahead'' I don't even. Amerifats and their lecturing about the quality of life in Europe.
>>61010707
1939 Czech was an industrious powerhouse compared to largely agrarian Finland in 1939. Now look this: >>61009542
Not to say Czech isn't doing terribly, but the soviet influence still shows.
>>61010707
The ignorant amerilard apparently thinks Eastern Europe is some sort of a shithole comparable to South America, but the fact is Eastern Europe is 1st world on a global scale (except for countries like Moldova).
His point still stands, it's true that we wouldn't live this good if we actually lost the war.
>>61007604
There are probably more Russians in that northern era then there are Fins in the world
>>61006334
>Russian goal was to annex Finland
Holy shit. Is it really written in ametixan books? Pure propaganda.
The only goal was to move a bordrr away from St. Petersburg.
Firstly, we asked finns to sell it.
They refused, Hitler was coming. So we had no choice, but move border with a war. The goal and purpose of war was moving a bordrr, wtf annex of finland? Holy shit, cnn or fox news?
>>61004776
That's not a Pyrrhic victory. That's a defeat that could have been far worse.
It was a heroic victory on all fronts when you consider the fact that a superpower controlling most of eurasia with a population of over 162 million people (1937 census) couldn't conquer a small shithole like finland with a population of 3 million people and an army made up of literal peasants and a days walk away from their second biggest city.
It's absolutely, mind-blowingly hilarious.
>>61011687
PROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFS
BWUK
>>61011687
Then why did you create a puppet government ready to replace the actual government in our capital city?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Democratic_Republic
Why did Finland belong to the USSR in Molotov-Ribbentrop pact? The USSR annexed every other country in the pact, why would Finland be a case of "just wanting to move borders" ?
>>61011687
>Pure propaganda.
You understand how ironic is that coming from a russian :^^)? Of course soviet would not admit the failure to annex Finland after your embarrassing attack, but say that you only wanted those pieces of land
>>61012134
It was just a prank bro :DDD Sovets never conquered anyone ever :DDD
t. not-a-shill
>>61006944
Russians tend to like Finns and Germans as well as Finland and Germany. Finns and Germans don't tend to like Russians, but outside of nationalists, they don't exhibit a hatred of them either.
>>61011687
>no choice
Thanks for the keks, vatnik. Stalin was angry with Lenin for letting several countries leave, he wanted Imperial territories back. The proud work that is currently continued by Putler.
>>61009384
Thanks
>>61005868
haha no they got even more than they asked for
>>61011781
At least we didn't get partitioned 10 times lmoa
>>61004732
Because the amount of consequences of the war can't make this (see pic) undone.
>>61004776
A pyrrhic victory for the Soviets, you mean.
>>61017433
Wikipedia lists it as a Soviet Victory
>>61018628
If a 'Soviet-win' means partial loss of land, but actual independence for the rest of the country, also including a huge international loss of face for the USSR because...thosen umbers are just hilarious, I'd take the 'loss'.
Vyborg is russia
IT WAS SOVIET. PLESE SAY SOVIET MORE OFTEN. I LOVE IT.
THIS WAR-MORAL VICTORY OF SOVIET.
OK?
SOCIALISM GIVES TO MACH MAN POWER. SO NEED TO USE THIS MAN POWER OR THIS MAN POWER EAT ALL BREAD
>>61018927
>>61018861
>>61018827
How does it feel knowing 2/3 of your population died
>>61018955
How does it feel to have more than 4 times the amount of people in prison than China, which is 4 times larger in population size? Talk about an authoritarian government rape of its people..
>>61018955
He's a proxy you dip
>>61018955
FEEL GOOD. CAN EASY HAVE 2 WOMAN
>>61019089
YES I EM. IM PROXY SOVIET
>>61007362
>You need to be equals to be rivals. Animals can't be said to be equal to humans so no, Russians aren't our rivals.
Finland admits being a bunch of animals too low to be rivals even to shitty humans as Russians.
>>61019050
China doesn't have 60 million blacks and Mexicans pouring over the border.
>>61019197
Nah, they have a couple tens of millions of muslims you fear even more.
FINLAND WAR START FROM DIPLOMATIC OFFER FROM SOVIET FOR TERETORY EXCHANGE WITH FINLAND. IT WAS REGECTED. AND SIVIET SHOW THEUR POWER FOR GET RESPECT.
>>61019235
I don't hate muslims. Muslims aren't the issue. The middle east is just an extremely fucked up part of the world. Indonesia, Albania, Kazakhstan, Bosnia, Malaysia are all muslim countries that I'm fine with.
The Muslim population of China is 20 million, btw
>>61007754
Send your best banter battalion here to fight, we're under cyber attack!
>American makes a thread arguing about a minor semantic point on a topic that he knows nothing about
>Gets btfo
>Whines and accuses others of nitpicking and arguing semantics
what the fuck did this retard expect his entire argument was "Hey fins you know that historical war that's a massive part of your national ethos, that your grandfathers died protecting your freedom in? well fuck you lost you RETARDS"
He probably go into all the Vietnam threads and argues that american won Vietnam until the janny deletes them
>>61019361
Ever considered any part of the world will become a shit stain if you bomb it as much as the US has done ever since the Iraq-war? Coz srsly, that was popular vote at the time and the shitstorm and refugee influx into Europe is the result of that.
THX MURRIKA!!
>>61018927
Socialism is fucking retarded. Your region is autistic part of asia
>>61018955
Don't listen, US. You're just feeding troll
>>61004732
We lost
We lost two wars.
We lost more than 15% of our territory.
We lost our second largest/ most important city.
We lost access to arctic.
We lost homes of more than 400 000 people in tiny a country of 3.5 million
We lost much larger share of men than they did.
We lost my grandfathers home and that family was destroyed along with countless of others.
Saying we didn't lose is as retarded if Mexico annexed both California and Texas (11% territory) and then you'd claim it was defense """victory""". There's just retarded amount of denial/national brainwashing about it.
I wonder if the people living in those territories are satisfied. Pic related, I mean this place could be like average housing in Helsinki.
>>61019591
You're welcome.
>>61019590
>implying
>>61019629
Authoritarian dictatorships calling themselves socialist, does not make it so. Not like Best Korea is a People's Republic, unless King Jung-Un had an unknown clone and in Best Korea, who knows?
>>61008881
>national identity
How can you lose something you never had?
>>61019788
too harsh, germanbro..
>>61004732
oh and the mighty USAUSAUSA won the vietnam war? kekkeroonie
FINLAND TAKE WRONG SIDE AND PAY FOR IT!
TACTIC VICTORY COST NOTHING IF WAS IS LOST
RIGTH ON DESIGION FOR FINLAND- BE NICE WITH SOVIET AND AVOID WW2 SAME LIKE SWIZLAND
IF YOU HAVE STUPED WEEK MORAL YOU WILL LOST.
HERE IS TIPICAL MORAP MISTAKE. BE LOYAL TO BASTARDS
>>61004732
>Lost Vietnam
>Lost Middle-Asia
>Lost Georgia
>Lost Ukraine.
TOP KEK
>>61020986
>>61021229
>>61021292
You could make a great finnish person.
>>61004732
>Another amerifat talking about european politics
When will you understand that you aren't educated enough to be able to understand it.
>>61021349
I never said we didn't lose any wars.
>>61006711
6 million keks
