Why are Europeans against the idea of a united army under the European Union?
>>60942946
Only the British are against it. Pretty much all other EU countries are working towards it.
If the EU has no foreign policy what use is an army??
>>60942957
According to Dutch news the EU is withholding the plans until after the Brexit vote.
>>60942969
To have a defence force?
>>60942969
Russia
>>60942946
Why should an economic union need an army.
EU =/= NATO
>>60942957
Really? I can't see the French going in for it either.
If an EU army is formed might as well drop all pretense that we're not a federal superstate.
Have literally no problem in integrating battlegroups and logistics with the French or whoever (preferably under British command) but an EU army is a horrible idea.
>>60943052
Dude, the French and Germans have been pushing for it since forever. A few years ago the French even suggested making an EU military without the British.
>>60943040
Because It is not an economic union, is URRS 2.0. I just wait to see the death of EU in my lifetime
>>60942957
No, fuck off
A united european army is a retarded idea, you'd just end up with an expensive bureaucratic nightmare where no one would ever agree to anything making it useless
I'd rather have a smaller, national army that we can use whenever we want.
>>60943077
bullshit, also not an argument.
>>60943058
Doubt NATO would do anything if Russia invaded the Baltics.
>>60943167
http://www.nato.int/docu/Review/2016/Also-in-2016/security-baltic-defense-nato/EN/index.htm
ok mr war general
>>60943156
It's not bullshit. Hollande is frustrated by the lack of backing for the French military missions. And they dislike that Germany never utilizes it's military when the French need it. That's why they want to take it to a European level.
>>60943212
>Hollande is frustrated by the lack of backing for the French military missions
That's true, but that doesn't mean we want to merge our military with other countries'. If we did, not only would we not get any support, but on top of that we wouldn't be able to intervene at all
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11861247/Merkel-expects-Cameron-to-back-EU-army-in-exchange-for-renegotiation.html
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/674596/France-neglecting-Nato-focus-creation-EU-army
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/20/german-and-dutch-military-forces-merge-bringing-eu-army-a-step-closer/
>>60942946
What's the point of NATO then? Most of the country that are in NATO will be in the EU army
Because it's fucking pointless.
We've already got NATO.
Why would we need a NATO Lite run by Belgian faggots?
>>60943307
>link claiming France left NATO
into the trash it goes
If Germans managed to create such army, it would slowly become a competition for NATO and was used to kick out American interest from European continent in cooperation with Russia.
>>60942946
I think It would be a total failed. Although, We have NATO.
>>60943148
Yeah, I'm sorry, but considering your epic fail in Libya, I don't think that's a very good idea.
>>60943368
>The French in charge of being able to read English
>>60943386
>your epic fail in Libya
What
>>60943409
>The Dutch in charge of reading their own links
>>France pulled out of the US-led alliance in 1966 and only rejoined seven years ago
>>60943246
For France it's a grab for power. To shift the power from Washington to Paris.
>>60942946
Because they don't consider themselves European and because they consider other european countries to be their enemies or, at best, rivals.
>>60943435
France is pushing for increased cooperation between european militaries, like with the CJEF.
We do not want a european army, period.
>>60943052
>drop all pretense that we're not a federal superstate.
yeeeeees
we must do this
also do propaganda for it like the americans
and put the far right in charge of it
>>60942994
I like to imagine the EU has a list of all reform plans blocked by the UK that will be worked through after they pull out.
>>60942946
Because NATO exists, and because EU is run by unelected officials.
>>60942946
because the people in charge of the union are retards and cucks
Because it will just be Britain and France effectively giving our armies to Germany.
>>60943517
They actually do. You know that Dutch referendum about Ukraine.
They actually told our Prime Minister to stop talking about it until after the Brexit.
So now our Prime Minister said he needs to study the implications of the voting results.
The law however dictates that - if he accepts the results of the referendum - actions have to be taken immediately, so people have sued to government for not responding to the referendum yet.
The court case is due - one day - after the Brexit referendum.
>>60943607
*people have sued the government
Does that mean other countries will start spending the same proportion of GDP on their army as we do?
>>60943640
France is thinking about setting up an EU defence funds.
But it's not for an EU military, trust us. At least, until after the Brexit vote.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-defence-idUSKCN0YP11B
>>60943665
>it's definitely about a common army guise
>source: my ass
>>60943744
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/26/plans-to-create-an-eu-army-kept-secret-from-voters/
>>60942946
possibly because it will be under the control of germany
>>60942957
no
>>60942946
Is there any non faggy, non moronic country other than Finland that is able to take the lead of the EU military?
>>60943770
That's still a single guy claiming a thing, there's nothing official about this
I'm convinced it's not happening anyway, such a major change is definitely grounds for a referendum which has no chance of suceeding in most countries
>>60943853
Where are we on that list? :(
i don't see why this would be a bad thing. the sooner europe stops leeching off of us the better for everyone involved. "daddy USA" can't protect you guys forever
>>60943853
>possibly because it will be under the control of germany
>Germany
Germans always trying to invade yurop......
>>60943665
And do you really think it is possible to make an EU army if the frenchies are not in favour to make it?
>The Minister in charge of Britain's military has become the first member of the Government to confirm that if the UK remains under Brussels control it will be forced to join an EU army
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/673463/Britain-forced-EU-ARMY-leave-Armed-Forces-Minister
>>60943411
>Depose Gadaffi
>Start civil war
>?
>Profit
>>60944082
it's just a prank bro
>>60944044
The French government is in favour. They are just putting up a show in France perhaps, but their statements in Brussels have been very clear in the last years.
>>60942946
>Why are Europeans against the idea of a united army under the European Union?
Because Hitler wanted the same thing.
Just swap EU with Reich and Euro with Reichsmark.
You dont need to be a genious to see that.
>>60944082
>Depose Gadaffi
>Start civil war
>?
>instability
>other countries want to buy weapons
>sell Rafales
>profit
>>60944181
>The French government is in favour
Source ?
>>60944181
Ok, They would need to make a referedum for this. People would have to decide if they want a continental army, It would be illegal making it without the population agreement.
>>60944181
I'm not even sure the French government itself knows exactly what the French government is doing
The French government probably doesn't even agree with itself most of the time
>>60944439
Ah, in the Netherlands it's illegal for ministers to disagree with each other or with the King in public. So no mixed signals are given.
>>60942946
Because our army is to protect France and its interests, not to be commanded by incompetent and corrupted EU bureaucrats.
>>60944181
The french government doesn't represent the will of the french people nor the interests of the country, why do you think there are strikes everywhere ?
>>60944251
Our military is being integrated into the German one And no one is asked anything.
But I dont think anyone here cares. The Netherlands is quite imperialistic and not capable of defending itself. So nobody even questions it.
>>60944600
I never heard a politician questioning it at least.
>>60944600
>Our military is being integrated into the German one And no one is asked anything.
Well here, this shit wouldn't fly
Are military grunts forced to learn English by requirement? If not, this is would be an Austrian-Hungary or Holy Roman Empire kind of army: Dozen of languages to give orders to grunts.
>>60944600
> The Netherlands is quite imperialistic
Well I will say to you what I once said to a young Buster Keaton, what?
Because the European union is not a state. It's a trade agreement.
>>60942946
Because we are not the united state of europe, fuck off, the eu must die.
>>60944710
Nyet, that was the EEC.
>>60944600
Luckily, Spain has an own army and we are not interested in this shit. Although We are not Europeans at all, so If germans want to make this shit, We will not follow "the European way". Sorry lads, Iberians rule in Iberia not Germans.
Because it will be used to defend the corrupt bureaucracy from the people, rather than defend Europe itself.
>>60944677
We are one of the most active nato members. We have a larger portion of our military deployed than other european countries. We help the French in Mali. Americans in the middle east and the carribean. Part of the anti-Russian battlegroups with the UK.
But our ambitions are bigger than our capabilities. We like to be involved in everything, but arent willing to pay the bill. And because we are either a lot stronger than other countries (Belgium, arabs) or a lot weaker (Russia, Germany) we dont know how much we would have to spend anyway.
And if Venezuela would attack our Islands for example we would still rely on the USA and France to help us. So integrating our military is common sense here.
But the UK (and France) are in a different position. Being from larger countries.
The different armies are already working together. You can see many different nationalities in the camps. Everything is well coordinated.
I don't think it would be a good idea to fuse them together. There would be a problem of language, of different laws and responsibilities, the different armies don't answer to the same level of the state in each country, there would be a risk of not being able to oppose a EU decision, and so on.
>>60944803
jajaja very funny alfonso
When the EU turns into an actual federation and every official is elected by the people then sure, why not. Right now that would be a terrible idea.
>>60944661
This happens already with NATO successfully it seems, they manage multi language brigades on operations. The fact is a European Army would be little different to NATO with another badge so arguments against it largely invalid except cost. Politically its a different matter and not one easily resolved or discussed without great length.
>>60944886
They'd probably make all soldiers learn Esperanto or some shit.
>>60944926
Are you interested to be a pupet state of germany?
>>60944866
Trust me, Venezuela is not going to attack you. They dont even have fucking toilet paper
>>60944955
What if the officers educated in langagues get killed?
>>60944970
When we were having trouble with Russia over MH17 they actually send warships towards our Islands.
>>60944958
>They'd probably make all soldiers learn Esperanto or some shit.
This is turning too jewish and I hate jews.
A new flag to spit on while pretending that I'm kissing it.
>>60944995
I have talked with several people from Venezuela. They are literally running away from Venezuela, that country is going to the hell and There will be a civil war there very soon.
>>60945040
The Netherlands is afraid of an attack, so we let American troops use it as a base.
Bur Venezuela fears our Islands are a staging ground for an American invasion.
So that leads to a lot of tension.
>>60945101
meh, Venezuela is a failed state. Their leaders are saying shit about Spain every day and we are not afraid from the Venezuelan menage. kek, I think Venezuela is going to end up annexed by Spain again.
>>60945101
A mini-cold war between non-countries. A soviet state and a capitalist state. :^)
>>60945040
>>60945196
Could anyone briefly tell me what is happening in Venezuela? There haven't been any news about it here.
>>60945101
Why the Netherlands is so insecure?
I mean no offense but everytime someone want to push for an EU army is 90% of time a dutch or a german.
Also the same are pushing for anti-guns laws.
Yes, sure as hell it's the EU that is against it.
>>60945454
Socialist leaders are fucking up the economy. And then blame foreign countries.
>>60945560
Sounds like Yugoslavia.
>>60945454
Socialism at work. They're out of toilet paper.
because we dont know what they wanna use it for.
Also because no nation will be ebale anymore to have a potential to threat the rule of the comission as they could just deploy soldiers from other countries without any loyality to the population there.
Greeks dont wanna pay debts, so they have a bunch of germans, spanish and french there keeping order...
>>60942946
We arent, we are just waiting for the islanders to leave.
>>60942946
i think, NATO is European Union Army practically.
>>60945552
>Keep the russians out
>the americans in
and the germans down
How is this a bad thing?
>>60943212
> that Germany never utilizes it's military when the French need it.
because they only do silly stuff with it.
Like removing ghaddafis tanks and now doing whateverthefuck in Mali?
>>60945552
>no US troops in France
BASED De Gaulle
Down with the Evil Empire.
>>60945670
>cheap uranium is bad
>having a military presence on every continent is bad
Get a load of this guy
>>60945667
That Germany's industrial development + Russia's endless natural resources = Hyperstate
>>60945676
theses time are over m8, we are nato now
>>60945723
> Russia's endless natural resources
That doesn't make up their destructive barbarism and corrupt governement
look at every country that has been under russian influence it's either 3d world or 2nd world shithole
>>60945724
We're in NATO, but we still have no foreign troops on our soil, still have an independent nuclear doctrine, and we are still not bound to follow anyone unless an ally has been attacked
>>60945532
>The steel and coal union is based on the Benelux. The administration is Belgium, the European Commission president is from Luxembourg, the vice president is Dutch, the leader of the Eurogroup is Dutch.
Geeh, what could they be up to. It's just Dutch imperialism.
>>60945723
>Germany's industry
>right after WW2
m9
>tfw your country has 40% of the worlds uranium ore
>is anti-nuclear
>>60945878
You dont want Australia to turn into a wasteland, do you?
>>60945916
it already is though
![1433971270-sans-titre[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/J0K8k2q.jpg "1433971270-sans-titre[1].jpg")
>>60945878
>you will never build reactors in Australia in exchange for a tenth of their uranium
fug
>>60945670
why germany have military? you're always lost of War.
japan was lost WWII.
but we don't have army.
![article-1198112-05A00E88000005DC-913_634x424[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/w3K68ce.jpg "article-1198112-05A00E88000005DC-913_634x424[1].jpg")
>>60945822
>not TOP-tier
Indeed, son, indeed.
>>60945794
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
FUCK OFF with al your bullshit EU army !
>>60945995
It was just a pile of rubble. Maybe if it wasn't your pic would have existed for real.
>>60945763
> under soviet influence
fxd
russian empire still looked russian but not shitty
>>60945949
You're in luck. The jews above you can help you out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urenco_Group
>>60945971
To make a point.
If you have an army you have an independent will as a country because you could hurt those that want to take it form you.
Also id like if germany was like this:
>>60945794
> we don't have army.
You seem to change that.
http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Japan’s-ruling-parties-back-new-“war”-law-34213.html
Now you only need a nuke dispenser and the chinks wont be that bold anymore.
>>60945971
>but we don't have army.
Your "self-defense force" is one of the most modern and well-trained militaries in the world
>>60944803
>Sorry lads, Iberians rule in Iberia not Germans.
you literally have and had german kings
>>60946033
Just stop that NATO shilling already
You should be in the same damn boat with us when it comes to defence in Europe and having our own army, France
>>60946052
We Areva though
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areva
>>60943212
>And they dislike that Germany never utilizes it's military
Germany can't utilize its military because it's military is in shambles due to chronic underfunding that has in turn caused mass equipment shortages that prevent any offensive action. Only armies in the EU with decent capabilities are the British, French, and Italians, and do you honestly think any of those countries are willing to die for the EU?
>>60945719
>cheap uranium
B-but think of the windmills!
I wouldnt be so pissed if you take all the nogs yourselfs who can now pass through lybia but our politicians are adamant to make our country like one of your banlieus.
>>60946150
What ? I do agree that countries should have their own armies senpai
>>60946150
>Just stop that NATO shilling already
>Join EU army
no you don't get it. What anon wants is an independent French army. Not controlled by German bureaucracy, and not controlled by the burgers.
>>60942946
Personally, as a Brit, fuck giving other EU nations a say in what our military does.
Seeing as apart from France other EU nations have laughable armies.
>>60942946
Because the US is against it and basically it's just too easy to play national rivallry between countries to divide us.
>>60946218
>and do you honestly think any of those countries are willing to die for the EU?
I feel like our French soldiers have died quite enough for the EU.
>>60946218
the poles actually start developing a quiet good army. They even militarize their youth, making it virile in contrast to ours.
>>60945971
m8 you have one of the biggest army on earth.
I swear why japs can't stop lying.
>>60946262
>filename is "polish tank.jpg"
>is just a picture of a pole in front of a hill
I don't get it
>>60946262
Yeah, the Poles are building, but the other three have both large and well trained forces which are combined with some top-tier equipment. Poles are still in the transition stage and since they have their 2% funding they'll be very powerful in the future, but they still aren't there yet.
>>60946262
But it's not a tank.
>>60946224
>no you don't get it. What anon wants is an independent French army. Not controlled by German bureaucracy, and not controlled by the burgers.
this is not a realistic option
we can either have an european army or be american vassal (NATO)
>>60946141
>>60946291
"self defense force" isn't military.
definitely self defense force looks like "military".
but military banned by our constitution of japan.
our self defense force is very small power.
>>60946585
>our self defense force is very small power.
That's a lie and you know it
>>60946613
The JSDF is small relative to population. It's about the size of the French or Italian militaries, but in a country that has population a bit under both those countries combined.
>>60946585
a self defence force is all you need 2bh
>>60942946
>people are lobbying against private firearm ownership
>there are people who want a military for the EU where a democracy doesn't work
I would support the EU army if the EU itself would actually be a union of free independent democracies rather than the shithole it currently is.
There is a reason why there has been increasing number of EU critic parties in 2010s.
>>60946652
They have to defend an area similar to Italy alone, though.
>>60946567
>we can either have an european army or be american vassal (NATO)
that would be a very convenient reality for you, isn't it ? : ^)
fuck off Hans.
>>60942946
Wouldn't be against forming a closer alliegance with the French. Rest of you have been useless for the past fifty years, however, and I don't see much chance of that improving any time soon.
>>60942946
EU isnt unified, its only few major countries trying to advance their own interests, this is why the EU army simply wouldnt work, too many countries with different interests.
>>60946652
It's pretty small relative to population, but it's still pretty large in the grand scheme of things
>>60946567
So it's between being controlled by americans or germans? I would go with the Americans
>>60946613
that's not lie.
self defense force have number of 240,000 people
their weapon is old.
and a low number of ships, tanks, planes.
>>60947198
You have the most modern tanks in the world, you have Aegis destroyers and you're developping a 5th gen fighter
>>60947253
>you have Aegis destroyers and you're developping a 5th gen fighter
its secret. please.
>>60947197
then get out of germany
>>60946827
you people still think you are some sort of empire, but the reality is that europe either unites or european countries become puppets of foreign powers
>>60943380
Sounds great desu
>>60947346
>but the reality is that europe either unites or european countries become puppets of foreign powers
What you're saying is that we either have to become puppets of Germany, or have a chance of being made puppets of foreign powers. I chose the latter, thank you very much. My family fought three independence wars against Germans, I'd rather their country didn't go back to being controlled by it.
>>60947346
That's wrong though. What are they going to do ? Invade us ? Come the fuck on.
Alliances and military cooperation are all we need, unifying is going too far for no practical benefit
>>60947573
you arent involved, leaf
>>60947604
My other passport means I am.
>>60947573
If we could control you with a joint army, then why is ours so shitty?
Wouldnt the french dominate because they have a stronger one?
>>60947603
>invade us.
What all of us euros lack is having a sound defense against assymetrical warfare.
Having stuff like this guys lecture being part of the school curriculum would be neat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZnkULuWFDg
>>60943040
EU is a political union as well
>>60947603
they can your allied countries in middle east or africa, for example
or steal your over sea territories
>>60947643
Germany has the most power in the EU because of its economic position, which means by proxy any armies controlled by the EU bureaucracy would see greater control by Germany. The countries that most want a unified army are those without decent militaries, and Germany's military is even more of a paper tiger than Russia's.
>>60943148
>an expensive bureaucratic nightmare where no one would ever agree to anything making it useless
Why stop now?
>>60942946
I wonder which shitholes the soldiers would come from
>>60947855
syria, iraq, other MENA countries that send their youth to conquer european pussy
>>60946146
Austrias were germans but the borbons were not germans, they were french. Actually, Our king is half greek and get married with a Spanish Journalist.
>>60947346
YOUR reality is based on the fact that the only reason why Germany has so much power is because of its economy, and you realise that an economy is rather useless when there's war or conflict.
So again, YOUR reality is just convenient for yourself.
We're already more puppets of Germany than America. And that's enough.
If you think you can take us one of the few remaining things in which France is still considered a great Nation, then you can really stick it up your ass.
You can't have an interventionist army without a common foreign policy, which the EU doesn't have. So would this army only be for defense? Then what the fuck is NATO for then? The only situation I'd be pro-EU army is if it was only used for training, get soldiers experienced with other European doctrines, just kind of turn it into summer camp but for soldiers and then at the end of the summer make them parade around Europe. If you keep it small enough, it's not too expensive a price to pay for the benefits it gives in people getting to see something from it, and the experience gained by training the soldiers in this way.
>>60942946
Because the european union is against the people of europe.
>>60948298
>If you think you can take us one of the few remaining things in which France is still considered a great Nation
thats your problem. you think that you are still a great nation. you are not. none of european countries are. we have to stick together and unite if we want to be intependant in this new world
>>60943206
We wouldn't start WW3 over them.
>>60943363
Now you don't have to follow us to Middle East shithole #764 again.
>>60942946
It would only give the Eurosceptics even more ammunition in claiming that the EU army will take over their country or suppress people who want to leave etc.
It would mean France, Britain, Germany and possibly Italy and Spain defending all of Europe
Some NATO countries have glorified police forces and expect the US and to some extent France, Britain and Germany to defend them
>>60946585
>military banned by our constitution of japan
lmao
>>60948730
>we have to stick together and unite if we want to be intependant in this new world
>we have to be slaves of European bureaucracy if we want to be independent in this new world
oh, the irony !
>>60949046
>germany
>germany
>
