>mfw our new president (Temer) is literally a US spy
>mfw soon as dilma got the approval for her being suspended from office, the opposition party leader (Aloísio Nunes) went to the US to meet with members of the US congress
>mfw one the first Temer measures is literally sell our own oil reserves to foreign companies
Seriously US why don't you leave us alone fuck you. Always when we have a chance of developing or a good leader you guys fuck us one way or another
https://www.rt.com/news/342933-temer-us-brazil-spying/
>>60359515
>Always when we have a chance of developing
Yes, the great development of -4% in a year.
>>60360173
>>60360173
OUR ECONOMY IS SHIT THEREFORE WE SHOULD SWALLOW AMERICAN CUM THAT WILL SURE SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS HAHAHAHA
>>60359515
>our new president (Temer) is literally a US spy
Nothing wrong with that
>>60360298
You need at least some positive results to be considered "a good leader" and the country to be said to have "a chance of development"
I commented nothing about the US part.
>RT
>>60360414
so therefore you can only be a good leader when the economy is booming or someone says that?
>>60359515
>sell your oil reserves
lmfao why. why not just throw it at the commodities market and make fucktons more than sell it under market value.
like it does you no favors and massively fucks you up in emergency situations.
>>60360478
https://theintercept.com/2016/06/03/credibility-of-brazils-interim-president-collapses-receives-8-year-ban-on-running/
>>60360506
You can't be one of the main causes of the crisis at the very least. Being able to actually lead is also desirable.
question for brazilians.
how does your country have so many leaders that basically enjoys giving a huge fuck you to the people?
brazilians seem kinda nationalistic, it'd make sense for politicians to have some nationalism in them rather than just hate everyone.
>>60360556
>theintercept
You've replaced an organ of Russian state propaganda with a centerpiece of the Regressive Left.
What's next? Presstv.ir? Salon? Keep em coming.
>>60360647
because it's simple, Brazilians are divided in two kinds of people, those that believe that we should be equal to the USA, where those on top are entitled to do everything they want and those that are poor should "work hard" to become rich like them, therefore the Government shouldn't mess with them, or those that actually want Brazil to become a world power by reducing economical disparity and bringing further industrialization and education towards the people. And our parties reflect them, but on the contrary of the world trend our left is nationalistic and our right is US cock sucker
>>60360666
>everything these people write must be wrong because they wrote wrong things before
wow dude chill.
>>60360595
so Dilma herself made the crisis happen? It wasn't Cunha or other people that wanted her out due them being investigated to the point they literally shut down the Congress so they could impeach her?
>>60359515
>commies actually believe in "our oil"
Cry more commie. I want to see all privatized.
>>60360242
>commodities boom meme
>good government
Negroe, please.
>>60360556
>the intercept
>rt
>>60359515
Shouldn't have rused the Roussef
Now get on the privatisation train and enjoy the glorious ride of being as shit as before but with even more poverty and crime
>>60360877
I saw your post before. If she can't lead, then she is a shitty leader.
And Cunha only became the house speaker in 2015, when the economy was already in collapse, and because she didn't even have influence right out of election to get an ally in there (with less than 50% of the votes needed).
And the congress focusing entirely on the impeachment process is just natural when it gets to that point, Collor was removed even faster.
>>60360647
Brazilians are usually dumb statists that believe government people will solve all our problems.
>>60360242
>commodities
>deficit spending
>no major crisis
>no major wounds to stank
>literally creating an oligarchy
>good government
>>60361174
>privatization train
CANT WAIT
>>60360821
lol yeah brazilians i've met irl usually were libertarian fuck the poor kinda people or were completely apathetic to politics.
i think its an issue of fear among the government, ie if they don't really fear the people they rule over its a big fuck you attitude they'll have.
i mean my parent's home country vietnam has a shitty corrupt gommie government, but they are really too fearful of the people to not push development projects constantly. there's a fuckton of lower-level corruption much more than brazil but budgets seem to be directed towards social services.
>>60361000
Yes, Norway got where they are right now selling all "their oil"
>>60361057
>>60361270
You know when the exact same thing happened too? Milagre Economico at the 70s, and what's the difference between what happened during Lula Government and the Military Dictatorship? The majority of the people literally did not felt the commodities boom but those on top, and that is why people don't have that much of high regards of that time at the Military Dictatorship as they have of Lula
>>60361197
so she should have disregarded the law to solve our problems just like Temer is doing right now? That would make her a great leader?
>>60361199
Yes, South Korea, Germany, Japan, France, Italy all of them got where they are just because foreigners and rich wanted
A coup happened only ONE time.
>>60361199
governments are pretty good for industrializing and development, canada would be third-world if we didn't have government planning though.
we're basically a colonial resource state that exports to manufacturers but we're pretty much saved from becoming a typical resource-exporting shit-hole because government planning directs a lot of money into developing our peripheral areas and creating social services.
>>60361356
>so she should have disregarded the law to solve our problems just like Temer is doing right now?
You can't even argue how she is a great leader, just accuse others. Temer isn't a good leader either, nor did he disregard the law.
>>60361356
Norway arrived there with a large amount of free market and capitalism. Now that they are rich as fuck, it is fine. Stupid cunt.
>tfw the US launches a right wing coup in your country
>>60361525
he's already suspended from politics for 8 years due to corruption m8, but nobody talks about that, also Jucá was literally his wingman and he clearly stated that they needed the impeachment to save themselves
>>60361529
Yes Free Market made where they right now with one of the biggest national oil savings and one of the biggest governments of the world
>>60361525
>You can't even argue how she is a great leader, just accuse others.
Well accusations and not facts were what got her out of office, not saying that she is a good leader, but people voted for her project and not the opposition one, and she didn't have the political strenght to do measures to solve the crisis due to politicians trying to save their asses
>>60361658
Can you even read?
They became developed thanks to free markets and capitalism. The history is crystal clear, there is no other method, so far discovered, that increased the life quality of the ordinary man than a large amount of free markets and capitalism.
>>60361658
>but nobody talks about that
Well, donating slightly above the limit is a pretty boring crime compared to the average.
And if you consider the recordings, there were more direct accusations against Dilma than Temer in there. Plus the conspiracy to keep her with Lula as "prime minister" as well.
>>60361835
Yes Minimal government and non protectionism measures was what got them to become rich and have one of the biggest national oil savings in the world specially after WW2 Your logic is flawless, I can't see what is wrong with it
>>60361909
>And if you consider the recordings, there were more direct accusations against Dilma than Temer in there.
wut, Jucá literally said word by word why they should put Temer and why they are doing it. When there was a proof of this size to support that Dilma is commiting a crime?
>>60361510
>government
>good
>mfw
All seriousness, I am not an anarchist. I just believe that our shit corrupt and inefficient government should be shrinked.
This shit government take a ridiculous amount of taxes to receive shit. I am 100% sure that I am able to manage my money better than these leeches.
Seriously, how the fuck we pay more taxes than Germans but we have such a pathetic return?!?
>>60362048
Also picture
>mfw
>>60362048
>minimal government and non protectionism measures was what got them to become rich
Exactly.
>>60362127
So there isn't really an argument here, you are 100% right, to have a strong and rich government you need a weak government and give rich people full power over the nation. Why haven't I thought about that
>>60362054
>implying BRs in reality pay all those taxes
kek
>>60362048
>said word by word why they should put Temer
Why was that? What was the exactly plan?
The recording only said
>Dilma can't control shit
>She should leave and Temer assume.
>?
> Car wash stopped
It's more wishful thinking than a plan. The same from Renan that wanted to keep Dilma, have Lula in the government and implement parliamentarism, all politicians just individually acted in what they expected to help them the most in both sides.
>>60362253
Thanks lord I have a double citizenship and I can move if it goes to hell, because retards like you that are blind to the true will always defend in a developing country government size similar to scandinavian countries.
The history has proved you wrong multiple times, but of couse, capitalism and free markets made countries poor. Socialism is what made people rich.
You are scum.
>>60362408
Faggot deleted >>60362307
>>60362315
wishful thinking? Top fucking kek. They have being denying their true reason behind the impeachment until the recording came. And it was more like:
>Dilma won't save our asses
>The only way for us to save our asses is to put Temer in office
Also Delcídio got arrested for much less
>>60362408
Yes, Proletariat Dictatorship sure proves that you are right! The truth is right there as you can see all countries developed themselves as you said by giving in to rich and foreigner demands haha They truly want the best for every country!
>>60362054
i don't read portugese so i cannot read that.
but what are personal tax levels? also taxes aren't the only thing in an economy. one thing is that you don't want money to just flow out of your pockets into the banks of rich people abroad.
keeping money within your economy and in circulation is pretty important for development. IE korea use to have death penalties for people who export capital abroad.
>>60362307
>implying BRs in reality pay all those taxes
>kek
This level of blindness
>>60362530
>The only way for us to save our asses is to put Temer in office
And it failed in a week, great plan. Maybe Renan was right and Lula would have protected them better.
>>60362545
our higher bracket is 27,5%, and most people dodge it easily
I didn't read this thread, but you're welcome bro-zil
>>60362530
lol nobody has gotten rich by giving in to foreigners though without controlling them.
that's a guaranteed way to become african-level bad. foreign investment and capital being controlled but encouraged is good though IE preventing foreign takeover of some industries/social services but letting them invest in technology/manufacturing.
>>60362545
It's the number of days you have to work in average just to pay all the taxes in a year.
>>60362545
The graphic says the number of days we work in order to pay taxes. Great part of our taxes are sales tax.
This contry is pathetic, rich people put all their money in places such as Miami. Middle class get raped by taxes and the poor is blinded by this socialism/social democracy that is just a smoke to a draconian corruption system.
SJW like this guy>>60362307 are one of the self haters middle class.
I sincerely hope to get enough money to leave this place. If I need to pay taxes, at least I want something back, not what I receive here (nothing).
>>60362704
i was being ironic m8 :^)
>>60362554
>>60362545
>>60362811
the government doesn't have the power to enforce it like in first world countries m8, and you can see that everywhere. An easy example is literally politicians dodging taxes when talking about personal income taxes, or when talking about VAT most people either buy stuff that comes from Paraguay, or even when it's about things that are produced here like food, most people issue a fake Nota Fiscal to dodge taxes. The only one that truly can escape from that are big companies and those that produce nationally industrialized goods like Cars, electrodomestics and other stuff. Which are represented by FIESP
>>60359515
"Mr Temer’s economic programme is faring better. His heavyweight team, led by Henrique Meirelles, a former governor of the Central Bank, has proposed the most ambitious overhaul of Brazil’s economic governance in decades. Public spending, including on the unaffordable pension system, is to be slashed, though the government has yet to say just how. Enterprise-crushing regulations are to be lifted, starting in the oil and gas sector. Mr Meirelles says the government will consider reforming Mussolini-era labour laws and the Byzantine tax code. Privatisation, long a taboo, is a possibility for the first time since the 1990s. Such ideas are a radical break from the left-wing interventionism practised by Ms Rousseff’s government, which is largely responsible for the economic mess. They offer hope of a way out of it."
http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21699948-interim-government-proposes-some-reforms-nowhere-go-up
LEFT-WINGERS IN SUICIDE WATCH
>>60363022
>foreigners praising politics that benefit them
what a surprise
>>60361000
>privatized by a forgein goverment.
how stupid can u be ?
>>60362988
>the only one that truly can escape from that are big companies
>evil big companies, they are oppressing the regular man should be taxed more than the rest (that is able to dodge according to you)
Commie thinking.
>>60363189
I meant "can't" not can
>>60361301
For all the """good""" (read : all privatised public services are shitty and need bailouts to survive) it has done to France, a country much richer than yours, then I hope you're ready for it.
>>60363101
>THE EVIL YANKEES! GO HOME!
Cry more petralha
>>60359515
revolt, it will only get worse.
>>60363260
HOW DARE OF YOU SPEAK NICE THINGS OF BRAZIL YOU DONT KNOW NOTHING BRAZIL IS THE SHITTIEST COUNTRY ON EARTH EVERYBODY IS BROWN LOW IQ MISERABLE COMMUNIST MONKEY THAT KILLS NEGROS AND FUCK HIV WHORES STINKING OF PISS AND SHIT BRAZIL IS SHIT 60K BR MURDER BEST DAY OF MY LIFE SHIT SHIT PISS FECES FUCK YOU I AM BRAZILIAN AND WISH I WAS ANYTHING BUT IT JUST KILL ME WITH YOUR SUPERIOR LIGHT SKIN BLONDE UBERMENSCH 300 IQ BIG WHITE DICK PLS COLONIZE USA
>>60363408
This, post more butthurt, it makes me hard :^)
Based Henrique Meirelles will clean this commie state
>>60363244
I understood that m8. It is obvious that you would never defend the evil greed entrepreneurs.
>>60363189
Correa wont be in the next election. Apparently hes going to belgium for a few years after he ends his term next year
>>60363634
> It is obvious that you would never defend the evil greed entrepreneurs.
says who? What I believe is that the State should regulate them, not Nationalize everything and give to people, entrepreneurs are needed and are a good thing for the country. But to think that giving them power to do whatever they want will solve all problems is literally being so naïve that it hurts
FUCK USA
VIVA LA REVOLUCION
>>60363747
>But to think that giving them power to do whatever they want will solve all problems is literally being so naïve that it hurts
I never said that. Give laws similar to Singapore or Hong Kong or Singapore and it will be like 1023012039182321098 times better than the draconian labor laws and the retarded overtaxation we have today.
>>60363918
>Hong Kong or Singapore
kek, one got one of the biggest economical disparities of the world and literally common people aren't able to afford houses or common goods due to low paychecks and inflation. The other one is literally a dictatorship kek
>>60363998
>dictatorship
With great labor and taxation laws.
>>60363998
>one got one of the biggest economical disparities of the world
People vote with their feet. Explain why chinese people try to enter in Hong Kong everyday? You are a stupid person that is blind to reality.
>>60364109
>With great labor and taxation laws.
says who?
>>60364181
>Explain why chinese people try to enter in Hong Kong everyday
top kek, so Hong Kong isn`t part of China now?
>>60364334
>be chinese
>try to enter in Hong Kong (autonomous state)
>denied
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TJk8yOFJvo
You are stupid. Really stupid.
>>60364334
>says who?
Anyone who is not a social faggot.
>>60364508
uh didn't know that
>>60364579
So anyone who has never worked in their lives?
>>60364508
so people wanting to immigrate from China to Hong Kong proves that economical disparity isn't a problem right? Good argument m8
>>60364650
>So anyone who has never worked in their lives?
kek, the opposite.
can you BRos tell me about how your government is?
How much do they tax you, do you have universal healthcare, how spread is crime, is it organised, does it effect normal people, do you have infrastructure, natural resources, separatists, do you have conscription, do you have any form of welfare, how good is employment
>>60364769
yes, because you know as being a single individual I am totally apart from society and social measures hahahaha, feels good earning monies from daddy :3
>>60364736
Exactly. China has a smaller inequality and still is a shithole compared to Hong Kong.
Inequality is not a problem. It is only to commie retards like you.
Video quite related to this fallacy, as always
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv5t6rC6yvg
>>60363408
>>60363101
Brazilians are fucking retarded.
>>60364828
>socialist
>talking about working
kek, you are a slease cunt. My parents don't even have graduation and I work since 17yo (I am now 28).
>>60364835
Yes inequality is not a problem, you know because those on top got there solely by their own struggle and everyone should be able to do the same right hahaha :^) I mean everyone can be next Eike Batista if they try hard enough hahahah. Also yeah, you know having a large portion of the population at poverty while a minority is rich is sure great for a country's economy, because you know they sure have money to spent to spin the economy as a place with less income inequality would have hahahaha :^) because you know a rich person drives the economy as much as a whole population. I mean just look at Japan, Germany, Italy, South Korea, those global industries are sure driven by capitalists and the rich strata themselves hahahahahaha
>>60364969
Yes and you are sure rich as your owner, you sure have ascended socially to the richest strata by your own hard work right, I mean you worked 11 years of your life, if work more 50 you will sure be the next Eike Batista
>>60365108
>actually believe this nonsense
Yes, the poor will always be poorer, the rich are evil jewish lizard monsters and companies are just greed institutions that want to keep the regular men suffering in poverty.
>>60365108
>as soon as the gap is smaller, there is no problem to the poor be poorer
Pathetic logic tbqh.
>>60365245
>Yes, the poor will always be poorer, the rich are evil jewish lizard monsters and companies are just greed institutions that want to keep the regular men suffering in poverty.
Explain foreign industries in China then? Capitalists have sure made their lives better to their home country standards and they aren't exploiting the cheap workforce and the lax regulamentation there right to give their home country cheap goods and make them richer right :^) Free Market always ensure the best interests of the population hahaha
>>60365400
>China being exploited by rich countries
>China is becoming richer and richer
Thanks to free markets China is becoming developed. Again, you are being just plain stupid.
>>60364334
>>60364650
>So anyone who has never worked in their lives?
It's the opposite really. Here a worker can be as unproductive as he wants and coming up with doubtful medical certificates to miss whenever he wants to miss work and the employer can't fire him without getting a lawsuit and having his bank account frozen while it takes 5-10 years to get a final sentence no matter who is decided to be in the right. It's good for the worker who doesn't like to work though, until they are actually out of jobs and people are too afraid of contracting when it's literally a lottery.
And wasting long time declaring and/or paying PIS/COFINS, ISS, ICMS, GPS/FGTS, INSS, DIPJ, DECLAN, CAGED and stuff I forgot with fines for any mistake and the rules keep changing (this year they want to declare ICMS in two states but the justice blocked, now the accountant is forced to declare all his operations above some threshold). SIMPLES was one of the best "inventions" of the Lula government (MEI is a mess though), but now companies are incapable of growing beyond a certain point without jumping the costs and possibly making them unviable.
It doesn't punish as much already large companies that can maintain a team of lawyers and accountants and bribe politicians for incentives though.
>>60365321
there is a problem when a small percentage got power and money meanwhile the rest of the country can't even do things that are good for the society as a whole, like getting a education, becoming an enterpreneur, develop science and technology and other shit etc etc. That's against development. The social classes shouldn't be outblown equal, but there should be at least a minimal standard to ensure development
>>60365583
>a small percentage got power and money
Are you describing the government?
>>60365520
yes I am stupid, people sure live well under the smog of Beijing I mean as long as the GDP is growing the life sure is good for everyone else right hahahahaah
>>60365554
>the employer can't fire him without getting a lawsuit and having his bank account frozen while it takes 5-10 years to get a final sentence no matter who is decided to be in the right.
top kek, then why unemployment is rising like hell recently? Is that happening to everybody that does that?
>>60365702
Government is elected m8, people that detain power and would literally destroy the country for their profit most of the times aren't or got in the government through their power over common people lives through richness like those traditional politicians of the Northeast
>>60365813
>people that detain power and would literally destroy the country for their profit most of the times aren't or got in the government through their power
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
>>60365930
if that was 100% true, Lava-Jato wouldn't even have happened m8
>>60365813
>why unemployment is rising like hell recently
Because companies are going bankrupt. And even if no one was fired, new people keeps entering the market and if they aren't hired then the unemployment goes up, and the young people looking for the first job is the segment with highest unemployment rate right now.
>>60365952
>implying that 99% of politicians are not trying to stop it
>>60365984
So therefore the unemployment rising from 4% to 11% in less than 2 years was only due to those reasons?
>>60365992
If Dilma truly wanted to stop it she would have done it day 1 m8, even the recordings say that m8
>>60359515
Kill yourself
>>60366223
read this >>60363408
>>60366167
>only due to those reasons
No, we also had a terrible president that brought an unprecedented crisis and an external situation not very favorable.
Poor people should just stop having children.
That's how you solve inequality.
>>60366253
What is your point, dilma run this country to the fucking ground with controlled prices and populist economical measures
>>60359515
We dindu nuffin
I swear I'm not an american living in Brazil.
>>60366167
>Dilma truly wanted to stop it she would have done it day
Actually believe this
>even the recordings say that m8
In your imagination
Thanks to a at least reasonable separation of powers, the PF and MP are able to follow their own interests, independent of the other powers.
>>60366323
>populist economical measures
she literally did a light-version of PSDB austerity measures and we will get the full version soon
>>60366367
>Tem que mudar o governo pra estancar a sangria
IT'S ALL LIES IT'S ALL LIES I NEVER HEARD THAT LALALALALALALA
>>60366255
if that was true the government wouldn't be afraid of industries like Ford, Volkswagen, Renault and other shit firing their workers m8, because they can only easily fire them when they go bankrupt
>>60366478
>Tem que mudar o governo pra estancar a sangria
>it means that Dilma wanted to destroy PT and the Petrobras corruption scheme
>he actually believe this
I believe that it is you that don't want to see the truth.
>>60366313
This to be honest. At this point I only support welfare for the disabled and the homeless.
But this is about alleged spy intel, not poor fags.
>>60366616
>destroy the PT and the Petrobras corruption scheme
Yes, if she didn't she would probably be still in Power and would have negotiated a deal with Cunha back then. Also Delação Premiada isn't necessarily the truth you need the evidence to prove it. And a hidden recording is literally the kinda of evidence they would need to make her guilty of commiting a crime
>>60366728
>Also Delação Premiada isn't necessarily the truth you need the evidence to prove it
>he is lying he is lying she dindunuffin
YOU CANNOT FABRICATE SUCH DIGESTED FOOD UPWARDS
>>60366478
She couldn't even protect her master, or even properly appoint new justice ministers, or pass her "leniency" of the criminal companies that supported her election. One of the things I'll be glad is that there likely won't be more Christmas pardons every year.
>>60366590
You can fire people if you have enough available money and lawyers. But large companies will still avoid risks with "voluntary resignation" programs which include benefits in leaving and sometimes deliberately making the worker's life in the company less pleasant.
>>60366478
>she literally did a light-version of PSDB austerity measures
what the fuck are you even talking about?
We only need austerity measures because she fucked up the country, Dilma hereself is unable to force them because she's from fucking PT
>let's lower the interest rate, while increasing credit and expediture (and giving out fiscal some isentions btw)
>lets control prices because its the current electoral year of 2014, while giving billions for power plant owners and destroying Petrobras
>>60366839
>let's lower the interest rate, while increasing credit and expediture (and giving out fiscal some isentions btw)
>lets control prices because its the current electoral year of 2014, while giving billions for power plant owners and destroying Petrobras
A govern cannot be more populist than this. Seriously.
>>60359515
I don't know what to say. Your government is a corrupt piece of shit. Dilma was suspended from office because of a scandal where your politicians were pocketing money from Brazilian oil companies. Now you want to sell your oil companies to us and pocket our money? So essentially, nothing has changed. Yeah, yeah, fuck united states whatever.
Redpill me on Brazilian political parties
Why do you even need an economy if you have beaches, alcohol and bunda? Life is more than just Money you know :^)
>>60366959
One side made by sindicalists and ex-communist rebels (e.g. Dilma and Lula) and the other side made by neoliberal elitists (e.g. Aecio Neves)
>>60366820
So if I say that you are a faggot that means that you are 100% a faggot?
>>60366826
therefore she didn't respect the law?
>>60366839
>let's lower the interest rate, while increasing credit and expediture (and giving out fiscal some isentions btw)
Yes, the prices/taxes/dollar didn't go up back in 2015, also the government didn't cut the expendings and ministeries back in 2015, which led to diminishing the tax revenue and the rage of public servants, judiciary, media and other shit against her
>>60366959
here >>60360821
>>60366924
Politicians impeached her due to her not destroying the operation Car-Wash which was going to arrest all of them, not the opposite m8. Also since her impeachment our government has radically changed from socialist to literally hardcore liberalism which is benefitial to the USA since our commodities would be open to foreigners
Hide commie conspirationist threads.
>>60367117
No, it means that you are selective in what you listen and believe. She is part of the system and you cannot accept it.
I understand why you are feeling that. You need to feel that at least one of PT was honest moved by your "proletariat/sindicalist dictatorship" believes.
>>60366959
>Yes, the prices/taxes/dollar didn't go up back in 2015, after she won the election
Glad you agree with me on that.
>also the government didn't cut the expendings and ministeries back in 2015,
The idea behind the reduction of ministeries was to shut up, their main allies who seemed to be further and further away from them. Also, I don't think the expediture cut was significant considering 2015 still had a fucking huge deficit
>>60366959
We have 30+ parties, many with no ideology at all (nicknamed rental parties) and the rest either socialist or conservative and the only way one can govern is through negotiating positions and money with them until you have a base. Almost all of them have corruption schemes, but the worker's party has the largest mostly because they were the federal government for 13 years and were unlucky with the set of conditions that allowed the car wash succeed when other investigations failed before.
>>60367228
>>60367117
to shut up PMDB*
>>60367176
So what part of what you said literally implies that I am being selective m8?
>>60367228
>Glad you agree with me on that.
Do you know what austerity means m8?
>>60367117
>Politicians impeached her due to her not destroying the operation Car-Wash which was going to arrest all of them, not the opposite m8. Also since her impeachment our government has radically changed from socialist to literally hardcore liberalism which is benefitial to the USA since our commodities would be open to foreigners
>believe this
gb2 reddit
>>60367277
what part of
>Tem que mudar o governo pra estancar a sangria
haven't you understand?
>>60367257
>some delations are true
>some are false
>I can choose which ones I believe because MUH BELIEVES
>>60367318
A hidden recording is totally different from delation m8. One is proof, the other is a guideline to investigation because the delator himself made it willingly, the hidden proof wasn't willingly
>>60367117
>Politicians impeached her due to her not destroying the operation Car-Wash which was going to arrest all of them, not the opposite m8.
I don't understand. They impeached her against the will of the Brazilian people, around the time that public sentiment was strong against Dilma but also strong against the politicians implicated in Operation Car Wash? I thought she was heavily implicated in the scandal.
>>60367309
It means that the former government had NO INFLUENCE over PF/MP, independlty if they wanted to stop it or not.
>>60367257
Austerity doesn't mean controlling prices in the first place. She let them run free because the power plant managers were crying, they were having a harsh time producing energy for months and the price has to reflect that. Same for Petrobras; corruption aside, the whole "having to import oil at a higher price and sell it here cheap" destroyed it, Petrobras would've defaulted were it not a state owned company.
but "look guise everything is fine, the inflation is under control because I'm controlling energy and oil prices!"
in 2015, energy got 55% more expensive, do you think this is normal?
>>60367368
She's implicated in another scandal, from Petrobras, not car-wash.
And most people were (and still are) pro-impeachment.
>>60367360
>One is proof
So when Renan or Sarney said that Dilma was directly involved with Odebrecht it was proof?
>>60367360
who said that I talked about hidden recording?
Also, about hidden recording, what about her trying to protect Lula from being arrested ILLEGALLY?
Again, you are just selective. You will not see me defending Cunha or Temer in the streets. Still you see people defeding PT scum because of MUH SOCIALISM.
>>60367368
She was the mothafucking head of the board of directors at Petrobras and she dindunuffin. Even HARD LEFT WINGERS like John Oliver find it funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uxtctclq7w
>>60367368
there isn't one proof against her m8, they impeached her for not respecting budget laws, which even that doesn't have proof. Also the public sentiment against her, was due to economy failing and people believed that with her out everything would be ok, and the reason for corruption was solely because of her, but right after she was suspended some hidden recordings about the impeachment came out and the main articulator of the impeachment in the senate say that they need to remove her from office to save themselves
>>60367402
Yes, Dilma couldn't simply do what Temer is doing right now right hahaha. I mean she couldn't simply appoint a new minister of justice to change the direction of Lava-Jato or destroy the CGU just for keks, or even give the judiciary members a raise because why not
>>60367466
No because, it wasn't herself the one speaking about it, meanwhile Jucá was the main Senate articulator for the impeachment the main Temer sidekick about it
>>60367499
Did she say word by word that she wanted to do that?
>>60367368
>They impeached her against the will of the Brazilian people
No, only 10% of the population thought her government was good and 2/3 was in favor of the impeachment.
>but also strong against the politicians implicated in Operation Car Wash
Yes, people dislike the current party as well since they were part of the coalition after all, so they are just as involved as the Dilma's government. But at this point there are many that are giving a sort of chance to the new government to fix the economy at least.
>>60367574
>Did she say word by word that she wanted to do that?
YES
Seguinte, eu tô mandando o 'Bessias' junto com o papel pra gente ter ele, e só usa em caso de necessidade, que é o termo de posse, tá?!
Are you high?
>>60367637
Did she say "Use it to save yourself from prison ok?"
>>60367574
>Yes, Dilma couldn't simply do what Temer is doing right now right hahaha
Actually she did, and look what happened to both :-)
>>60367678
oh she did? when?
>>60367655
>só usa em caso de necessidade
YES!!!!!!!! What do you understand with that? To clean his ass?
I said, you are selective in your believes. You want to hear what pleases and you just ignore the facts.
>>60367574
>they impeached her for not respecting budget laws, which even that doesn't have proof
The CDU isn't enough proof of that? fuck off.
>>60367694
>who is Joaquim Levy
>>60367694
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/poder/2016/02/1738007-dilma-tenta-evitar-que-tse-use-dados-da-lava-jato-em-processo-de-cassacao.shtml
>I don't believe in the midia golpista lalalalala
>>60367574
>the main Temer sidekick
And Lula was her mentor and articulator against the impeachment. And Mercadante was one of the closest ministers to her. And Renan her strongest ally against the impeachment.
And Delcidio was the Senate articulator for her government and Santana was her marketeer.
>>60367775
But she was innocent and asked for nothing. All around her were corrupted, but she was just fine.
>>60367628
>No, only 10% of the population thought her government was good and 2/3 was in favor of the impeachment.
Now it's back to 35% approval rates.
When Brazilians are unemployed and things are too expensive they simply start going crazy and hating on everything, Dilma just happened to be the target because she was at the leadership position at the time.
Just wait in a few months when the economy continues sinking, people will start hating Temer too.
>>60367825
>Delcidio is a great guy
>get arrested and said that Dilma was directly involved and even tried to fuck it up Lava-Jato
>he is a liar, she dindunuffin
>>60367694
>>60367711
>To clean his ass?
maybe? who knows, the fact is that the other recording clearly says "We want to impeach Dilma to save ourselves word by word m8"
>>60367724
CDU?
>who is Joaquim Levy
What did he do apart from saying about the Pedaladas Fiscais?
>>60367775
Yes but none of them said word by word what Jucá said m8
>>60367921
>maybe? who knows, the fact is that the other recording clearly says "We want to impeach Dilma to save ourselves word by word m8"
It is almost a religion level of blindness m8, and you know that.
>>60367916
>accuses
>IT'S 100% TRUE
pls m8
>>60367921
TCU, my bad
Levy wanted to do austerity measures, but he was seen as "too harsh" by the Worker's Party ilma suffered internal pressure, even from Lula, to tell him to get out.
http://politica.estadao.com.br/noticias/geral,para-tentar-controlar-crise--lula-e-pt-recuam-nas-criticas-a-joaquim-levy--imp-,1788478
>>60367962
no I don't m8, there is a difference between clearly stating things and not saying it. And that can change completely the meaning of everything m8. Also have you heard the other Lula recordings too? or just this one?
>>60359515
>Seriously US why don't you leave us alone fuck you.
We didn't do anything this time. Brazil fucked itself (again).
>>60367921
>word by word
>>60368024
Ignorew dumb gommies
>>60367921
>Yes but none of them said word by word what Jucá said m8
Renan literally said his own plan against car wash with pushing semi-presidentialism with Dilma as president and Lula as prime minister and main articulator until 2018. The idea of all of them is to reduce the tension with the population thanks to the political/economical crisis with Dilma x Legislative x Judiciary so that they can make the large deal between all involved with the population less angry and vigilant.
>>60368104
Yes, but that isn't illegal m8 because it hasn't happened, but doing the impeachment for the wrong reasons are clearly a crime m8
>>60368024
The government failed hard and corruption is rampant. However, PT supporters are Radical Islam level of fanatics.
It is not your fault mate.
>>60368022
>this level of denial
Tell me master of denial, what it could have meant?
>>60368024
IT IS THE USA'S FAULT YES! USA WANTS TO SEE BRAZIL WEAK AND BROKEN!
>>60368164
>but that isn't illegal
Nor it is to support the impeachment for personal reasons.
>>60359515
good for US
teehee
all americas will belong to america one day, monkey friend.
>>60368212
anything m8, since it wasn't said m8
>>60368223
>Nor it is to support the impeachment for personal reasons
it's clearly against the constitution since a impeachment needs a personal crime commited by the president m8, not because you and everybody simply want to
>>60368270
>needs a personal crime commited by the president
And it has a responsibility crime, the rest is political judgement.
>>60360647
Dilmom was actually a good leader. The new one did a coup. probably got help from the US too.
>>60368222
so why don't they support the unification of Latin America like they do with the EU?
>>60368315
Oh really where?
>>60368270
>anything m8, since it wasn't said m8
Pathetic. Use only if necessary is as clear as water. You are a queer PT fanatic.
>>60359515
>>60360173
The eternal yank strikes again.
FOI GÓPI
>>60368353
As clear as saying it word by word? Don't think so, that why there is room for doubt and you can only condeem 100% someone as guilty if there isn't room for doubt m8
> rt.com
>>60360647
Because democracy with stupid people does not work :-). Lula will come back in 2018, you will see.
What makes me sad is that even if OP is trolling, there are people who unironically think exactly that in this country, fuck me sideways.
>>60368412
My friend, based in your logic, even the Delcidio hidden recording could mean another thing, NOTHING IS 100% SURE. He even claimed (at the beginning) that he was just offering emotional support to Cerveró's son, giving another entire meaning to his recordings.
>>60368338
>Oh really where?
Credit operations with owned banks and budget decrees without congress approval. Although it's unfortunate that it only covers 7 months of her second mandate, if it covered the car wash evidences (like OAB accusation did), all her even later instances of obstruction of justice and more importantly the massive creative accounting in the last years of her first mandate. This way it would be a much more fair and explicit trial.
>>60359515
IT WAS A COUP, DILMA IS A GOOD PERSON, CAPITALISTS WANT TO DESTRY LATIN AMERICA
>>60368524
>Delcidio hidden recording
wut, you mean the delation?
>>60368568
>Credit operations with owned banks
Oh and were is her fault at it? By signing it? So therefore all non-government instituitions, including the TCU which has approved at first those "credit operations", which aren't credit-based since the banks weren't gaining interest rates from it, are guilty too? Including Temer himself? So therefore if a law changes tomorrow you can get arrested for now a crime that you commited yesterday?
>>60359515
ITT: this thread in a video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-GemVG_6Ec
>>60368749
Yes, because I am against the impeachment I am Chavista good knowing it
>>60368785
Yes you are.
>>60368785
The correlation is pretty high.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlOUE6yB6Jg
>>60368861
>>60368866
therefore if I a support something that means that I am fully for it with no exception or disagreements
>>60368894
Statistically yes. Also, there is a huge probability that you believe that socialism is good and that Dilma is honest.
>>60368933
>Statistically yes
which means 100% yes obviously right?
>>60368731
>Oh and were is her fault at it?
She is the one responsible, the ministers and TCU are advisers. And she certainly got a lot of benefits from this practice in the year before.
>the banks weren't gaining interest rates from it
Of course the government paid interest rates.
>>60368933
Also, statistically you are graduated in a human """science""" and you don't understand statistics :^)
Am I wrong?
>>60368960
No, it means you are proned to be so. And based in your reaction the statistics are right :-).
>>60361000
You fucking privatise to your citizens not Fucking foreigners.
This is as stupid as privatizing water utilities to a foreigner.
>>60368994
>She is the one responsible, the ministers and TCU are advisers.
Yes, to be impeached she needs the intent of doing it or doing a crime, therefore if everyone says it is the right thing to do, since it has been done since ever, she clearly didn't have the intent of doing a crime m8. That is why that theoy is wrong m8. Also it had first the approval then later the failure in fulfilling it
>Of course the government paid interest rates.
Oh can you show me proof?
>>60369080
So therefore, I can be socialist but disagree with things that socialists do right?
>>60369138
>be a foreign
>create a holding in the target country
>win a water utilities concession
Is there background checks on the holding shareholders in water and waste water concessions in Canada?
I find it silly, but still, you can have the following scenario in this case
>local holding wins concession
>foreign investor purchases 49% of the holding
>life continues
>>60369138
The Brazilian middle-class lliterally WANTS foreign corporations to buy our economy. Because, you see, "they" know what they're doing, "we" don't. It's called the Mongrel Syndrome, another term for Inferiority Complex
I'm so sick of this Brazilian meme conspiracy that the USA gives one FLYING FUCK about your country. IT DOESNT
YOUR leaders no doubt come to us begging for funds to get your agenda going. We introduce you to the IMF and World Bank and Goldman Sachs and your leaders do the rest.
If your country was even remotely controlled by the USA your economy wouldnt be such a shit show and not EVERY SINGLE ONE of your politicians would be a corrupt dirtbag.
stop blaming us for your own corruption!!! Did anyone hold a gun to your presidents head and tell him he had to go to Washington? Ask Charles Taylor if we give a shit.
>>60369192
>she needs the intent of doing it or doing a crime, therefore if everyone says it is the right thing to do,
Ignorance of the law doesn't exempt anyone from having to follow them. Not for normal people, not for the president.
http://www.bbc.com/portuguese/noticias/2015/06/150525_pedaladas_fiscais_ru
>A questão é que não houve atrasos no pagamento desses bilhões de reais em benefícios e subsídios para seus beneficiários, porque os bancos públicos cobriram esse valor - cobrando juros do governo pelo uso de tais recursos.
>>60369317
its called treason
and they should be hanged for it
>t. everything was sold and closed shortly after
>>60369317
There are state companies or private companies. There is no such a thing as "our companies".
>>60368318
she was a horrific leader and crony to the core
the whole world cup and olympics is a massive debacle and waste of funds that was enough to bring huge segments of the populace out in protest on multiple occasions.
people wanting Dilma gone/impeached is not some new 2016 phenomenon
>>60364109
I used water as an.example because it's one of those should never be privatized things.
>>60369481
Yeah, that's how the mind of a slave works: you can either be a slave to the state or a slave to private capital.
>What is a "freedom"?
>>60369557
>Yeah, that's how the mind of a slave works
What are you even talking about? Marxist shit?
>>60369428
>Ignorance of the law doesn't exempt anyone from having to follow them. Not for normal people, not for the president.
Yes it does if the law isn't applied m8. That is what is called "ação dolosa" m8, and the constituition clearly states that there should have an intent of the president in doing it
>http://www.bbc.com/portuguese/noticias/2015/06/150525_pedaladas_fiscais_ru
A quote isn't a source m8, i want to see the real numbers, the thing is I've watched the whole impeachment process debate at the senate back in April, and there wasn't one quotation of the numbers or themselves, especially since the budget of 2015 still wasn't approved and was approved just now by Temer
>>60369548
So be specific. You are against private companies in this subject, not "foreign" investors.
>>60369533
>people wanting Dilma gone/impeached is not some new 2016 phenomenon
then why she got elected twice?
>>60369645
I know why.
>>60369674
>70 reais a month make people change their political opinions
>>60369645
She was elected by the people. But apparently, in Latin America, the electorate is a consultive body. Power belongs to investors and the media, and every now and then they decide to "revoke" the power that they "delegated" to the people.
>>60369710
Again, I know that people from human """sciences""" don't understand math, but the correlation is clear.
>>60359515
>BRICS will rise any moment now
>>60369674
Yeah, poor people vote in favor of their own interrests. What's bizarre is the fact that the middle-class does the opposite.
>>60369729
You could say the same about race and literally justify genocide following your logical and mathmatical correlation
>>60369710
>people that are almost illiterate
>having political opinions
They will vote for the one that gives them free shit.
>>60369729
>says he understands math
>doesn't understand profit comes from exploitation
>>60369745
The fact they even put Brazil in BRICS shows how naive Americans are.
>>60369768
therefore the government should be ruled just by those that have knowledge right?
>>60369645
gibsmedats
>>60369752
>I don't care if they are corrupt and destroy our economy, they give me free stuff so I will vote for them
You are underestimating the middle-class intelligence m8.
>>60369805
then why Lula got elected in 2002?
>>60369824
>Let's do what the investors want! Let's hear the wise voice of the markets! Surely, someday we will gain something from it...
>>60369799
Your GDP is bigger than Russia's
It grew from 500 billion in 2002 to 2.25 trillion today
Your a moran
>>60369765
>You could say the same about race
Yes
>justify genocide following your logical and mathmatical correlation
Why? I don't want to kill anyone.
However, black and brown people vote for left-wingers, that is true. In the same way that black and brown are less educated and poorer.
>>60369835
A monkey could be re-elected president with the commodities boom.
>>60369899
therefore if they are stupid due to IQ, the only to better mankind would be killing them or not possibilitating them of having offspring right?
>>60369799
BRICS is a concept that investors use for their purposes. It has nothing to do with the power of the nation in question.
>>60369871
Yes. That is the fundamental point we disagree. All this discussion in this thread is about the fundamental question: Capitalism or socialism? Which one is better?
I know you answer, and you know mine.
>>60369835
Cardoso wasn't running?
>>60369926
>2002
>commodity boom
kek
>>60369957
he got elected twice 1994-2002 so he couldn't be elected again
>>60369929
No. I believe in individual freedom, people should be allowed to do and think what they want since they do not interfere in the others' freedom.
You are talking about dictatorships in your sentence (e.g. communism, national socialism, fascism).
>>60370006
So you are being mathmatically incoherent then, Since you know it's a fact that those people are dumb due to IQ
>>60369952
You know, Americans got tired of waiting for "trickle-down economics", which is why the even the Right is voting for the protectionist Donald Trump. Meanwhile, Neoliberalism is still popular among the middle classes in Brazil. Hilarious.
>>60369959
Sorry, it was the election. People are usually stupid and believed in the socialism fairy-tale. That is my hypothesis.
Fortunatelly, people are seeing the truth nowadays.
>>60370047
>people are seeing the truth nowadays.
yes with Temer now everybody is seeing the truth behind the evils of socialism
>>60370006
>Unironically believes Capitalism is conducive to human freedom.
>>60370029
Man, are you trolling? Being stupid is not a crime! I know the correlation is true, in the same way I think you are incredibly stupid, but still I DEFEND YOUR LIBERTY TO TALK AND VOTE.
I believe in arguing and explaing to someone why I think he or she is wrong. I am against force. I think you should read more about classic liberalism / libertarianism.
A link to learn more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSumJxQ5oy4
>>60370142
>I believe in arguing and explaing to someone why I think he or she is wrong.
so then you believe that people can stop being stupid? then you are being mathmatically incoherent again. Since people are stupid due to IQ
>>60370163
>Since people are stupid due to IQ
That is it you are trolling. People are mostly stupid due to lack of education. If you educate them, if you argue with them, most of them will be able to learn. You are not only being retarded, you are also being racist.
>>60370206
therefore IQ means shit right?
>Selling your oil reserves when it's cheap
>>60370228
having 90 or 200 IQ matters less than having a good education.
>>60370042
>tired of waiting for trickle down economics
were doing fine,people are just lazy, we were to successful so now the Idea of being a blue collar worker is inconceivable to people we actualy have a shortage of skilled laborers.
>>60369611
"Ação dolosa" means intention behind the action, not intention in breaking the law. She intended to do the delays and the decrees, it was already a common policy of hers through multiple ministers.
And to bad you don't believe journalist and economists, just your own belief. Maybe if the TCU releases the exact numbers when it evaluates 2015 you can get exact numbers to believe that the bank didn't simply give money for free to the government, which would be at the level of extortion and not just credit operation. If you watch the defense of Dilma in the senate they explain there are interests though (even Cardozo) but it doesn't qualify as lending.
>>60370274
exactly thanks m8, that is the problem with people here they tend to analyse things briefly and therefore come to a different conclusion without getting the whole picture
resurrect pedro dubs
>>60370163
>>60370206
>There are people who unironically believe in "objective, scientific intelligence measurement"
>>60370313
Ok, I am sure that you didn't change you believes, but at least I hope you learn one thing or two about libertarians.
>>60370346
just go to /pol/ and you will see tons of people there kek
>muh CIA conspiracy
I don't know if it's funny or sad that we've managed to get all of Latin America to the point where they see us in every shadow. You people are a bunch of chronic fuckups who we couldn't fix even if we tried. Deal with it.
>>60370360
>muh Bell Curve
>>60370389
Just the leftists m8.
>>60370246
>Temer sells off oil reserves when its low
>Leaf Man Trudeau sells of gold when its low
JUST
>>60370274
Thats the stupidest thing I ever heard. Genetics isn't just its important, its vital. That doesn't mean you're going to ignore education because civilization is built on passing down knowledge, but learning something is going to make you more knowledgeable, not smarter.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12061787/Intelligence-genes-discovered-by-scientists.html
>>60370433
Seriously, I hope you don't have kids then, because you are a basket case.
>>60369533
>having the world cup and olympics is a chore to a nation
lmao kill yourself. the cunts who stole money on the infrastructure investments where oligarchic motherfuckers like jose sarney that probably has more power and protection than the president itself.
lula and dilma were great guys. lula was more charismatic and dilma was an iron hand paladin. she is not the president brazil wants, but the president brazil needs.
>>60370489
>but the president brazil needs
Why you hate Brazil?
>>60370489
>she is not the president brazil wants, but the president brazil needs.
You got that backwards
>>60369729
>correlation
>causation
>>60370488
Whatever you say famlam, I just got in this thread.
