Help me to understand. I'm a long time traveler to Japan for work-related matters, but often get the chance to do tourist stuff. I've also extensively traveled around Europe.
Here are some things people commonly tell me:
>Quality of infrastructure
Completely agree with this one. JR/Tokyo Metro/Shinkansen are second to none.
>Cleanliness
Also agreed. Stunningly clean country, esp. Tokyo.
>Politeness
In two minds about this one. The Japanese service industry is also second to none in politeness, but I've not found ordinary people to be any more polite than western countries. They honestly seem more distant and detached to be honest, and very difficult to make friends with.
>Food
I feel Japanese food is overrated. I understand that's just personal preference, but I've eaten better, often fresher food in Tuscany and other parts of Italy for a much lower cost.
>Landscape/Natural beauty
Hokkaido is very beautiful. No doubt. But is Japan really significantly more beautiful than parts of the UK (Cotswolds, Lake District, Peak District, Highlands), France (Gorges du Verdon), Greece (Aegean, Meteora), Italy (Campania)?
>History
Here's where I completely disagree. Most of what I've seen of historical architecture and remains during my time in Japan is actually comparatively poor to what we have in Europe. Osaka Castle is a good example, a modern recreation (like a good portion of Japan's historical architecture) that's basically a fairly standard, modern looking museum on the inside. Kyoto too has always been something of a disappointment for me. I can't shake the feeling that once you've seen one hip roofed temple, you've seen them all. I will give credit to the gardens though, particularly at the Meiji Shrine in Tokyo. On the whole, Vienna, Rome and Venice were all much more magnificent and beautiful to me than Kyoto.
I get the appeal of Japan. I just think that people hype it up in areas where it isn't necessarily a world-leader (historical sites, natural beauty).
>>58896061
nothing
>>58896101
I agree desu
anime
>>58896061
The big appeal is that they tend to have their shit together when it comes to nationalism. Sure they have problems with their economy and birth rates but their attitudes are basically the same as 1940s Britain before we just gave up.
>>58896061
The people who shill for Japan are mostly autists who want to go there to live out their cartoon dreams.
>>58896799
Yeah, no doubt about that. I just don't find the traditional culture all that interesting. I think most westerners who claim to be into crap like Noh, Kabuki etc are just bullshitters trying to look more refined than the everyman weeaboo.
The appeal is overstated on the Internet, it's mostly hyped by beta weeaboos who are obsessed with the country's entertainment industry (anime, video games) and think there's a bunch of horny teen girls just waiting to rip their clothes off for them upon their arrival in Japan.
>>58896061
>Japanese food is overrated
looked like tldr but read it.
and no. its still underrated. japanese traditional food isnt really the greatest but the whole japanese food industry is great because it has so much of various quality food from all over the world.
if anything the others are overrated. also anime sucks.
Bullseye! The sad fact is that whilst Japanese ‘food culture’ is seen as being chic and sophisticated (Michelin guide, anyone?), and has World Heritage status (whatever that is supposed to mean), the review of the food makes clear an interesting point that is often overlooked; Japanese food is unimaginative and tasteless!
I’m not just having a rant, it’s a fact. Look, all of the things that you can name as ‘tasty Japanese food’ are from other countries;
Sushi/sashimi=Vietnam (ancient cultures of the Mekong Delta, to be precise).
Tempura= Portugal (along with muskets and Christianity).
Okonomiyaki= US (US occupation).
I could go on all day. The point is that Japanese food- real Japanese food- was always tasteless and dull (provided you could have gotten enough of it, in sufficient variance to avoid starvation, and the many plagues that ravaged Japan until the Meiji era and it’s imported western foods (Beikoku, anyone?) and medicines).
The proof of this, is that if you go back to Heian era literature, written by the wealthiest people in Japanese society at that time, at a period when Japan’s international relations were extremely limited, no one ever, EVER talks about food. No special dinners. No seasonal dishes. No eating at parties. The elite of Heian J-society never write about some tasty thing they ate. Given their propensity to gush over all the other trivial experiences in their lives, their failure to do so over food is the most compelling evidence that really traditional Japanese food was tasteless and unenjoyable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewKGE20Epa0
>>58897049
Are you one of those people who gushes about how amazing the desserts at Lawsons and 7/11 are?
>>58897050
Actual Japanese food is most closely approximate to kaiseki cuisine, which is literally just vegetables like raw radishes arranged pleasantly.
>>58896061
I think the landscape comes from the flora
I was there last week, and compared to everywhere else I've been it's just so pleasant. It's very lush, but at the same time it's not overbearing like a jungle. Combine that with an agreeable climate, architecture, and pretty seasonal changes and I can fully see the hype behind Japanese landscapes.
>>58897175
if you lived in some desolate countryside you could have to run toward a conbini everytime you vaguely get hyped for a shitty bandwagon in media.
but if you lived in a big city you'd be able to go to any kind of restaurant and get those foodstuff in some big supermarket or department without a precondition.
In my opinion they refined everything good that Asians created. They also have a tendency of making right choices.
japanese culture until the end of ww2 was aesthetically perfect
>>58896061
I don't know why you try to rank it up against other countries. It is not better or worse than the european countries you quote, it is just different, and that's the appeal.
I've been to most parts of Europe and these landscapes and historical buildings have become common for me.
And that's the appeal of Japan: it's different. As for the food, that's subjective, but I consider it god-tier, not french-tier though. Maybe you got bored after seeing Japan so many times, or maybe where you lived it is not so different from it.
>>58897049
I saw the thread here that a Brit tourist described American McDonald's is delicious, their taste is difference from us and Brits tend to don't like taste bland, but love our katsu curry. Maybe they also love tonkotsu rahmen.
This thread is interesting for me.
>>58896061
I agree with all of what you said except the history part, but I do agree that Osaka castle is crap.
And the food is really good but not the best.
>>58896061
Ever since I was young, my father often spoke to me about the Kinkaku-ji Temple.
There is nothing in this world as beautiful as the Kinkaku.
>>58899126
The only noteworthy thing about it is the gold leaf.
There are small towns in Europe with more beautiful buildings.
>>58897742
But outside of Hokkaido, everything is just curated greenery.
Here's an average park in London. If this were in Tokyo you'd hear no end of how sublimely beautiful of it, how the rocks represent such and such Buddhist concept and so on.
>>58898475
>I've been to most parts of Europe and these landscapes and historical buildings have become common for me.
There are objectively many more architectural styles in Europe than in East Asia.
>>58897742
>and pretty seasonal changes
Ever been to North Italy?
ani may
>What's the appeal in Japan?
It's as far "east" as it gets (and a 1st world country) while we live as far "west" as it gets. (new world doesn't count) The exotocism goes back to the silk road.
>>58900443
Bullshit, london is a shitty ruin and you know it
>>58903361
It is full of non-whites and unpleasant for that reason, but that's not what we're discussing here. I'd not deny Japan has superior infrastructure.
I'm saying London, Britain and Europe in general have more, a greater range of and superior historical and architectural sights and parks. Not to mention more untouched wilderness.
>>58903416
>superior historical and architectural sights
That should be obvious to everyone, Europe values this more than anywhere else in the world.
People treat going to Japan like a quasi-religious experience. Some old pavillion that wouldn't get a second glance in Vienna or Bruges suddenly becomes the font of all the world's architectural beauty, a pleasant landscape that wouldn't cause remark in the Abruzzi become a slice of heaven on earth. Some neatly arranged raw vegetables in a bowl become worthy of an epic poem. And so on.
How little things have changed:
Europe and America evince a singular taste for the marvellous, and find a zest in self-depreciation. Our eighteenth-century ancestors imagined all perfections to be realised in China, thanks to the glowing descriptions then given of that country by the Jesuits. Twentieth-century Europe finds its moral and political Eldorado in distant Japan, a land of fabulous antiquity and incredible virtues. There is no lack of pleasant-mannered persons ready to guide trustful admirers in the right path. Official and semi-official Japanese, whether ambassadors and ministers-resident or peripatetic counts and barons, make it their business to spread a legend so pleasing to the national vanity, so useful as a diplomatic engine. Lectures are delivered, books are written in English, important periodicals are bought up, minute care is lavished on the concealment, the patching-up, and glossing-over of the deep gulf that nevertheless is fixed between East and West. The foreigner cannot refuse the bolus thus artfully forced down his throat. He is not suspicious by nature. How should he imagine that people who make such positive statements about their own country are merely exploiting his credulity? HE has reached a stage of culture where such mythopoeia has become impossible.
>>58899126
Mizoguchi/10
>>58899126
looks lame as hell
First time in Japan and I am dying.
They have so many stupid rules it makes me crazy.
Men and women use different bathroom in house. A million different types of trash cans.
20 different ways to say thank you.
>>58906404
Iktfb. Literally feels like you're breaking the rules just by existing in Japan.
Why are you so passionate about this topic? Are you some kind of EU tourism shill?
I mean, you make some fair points at first, but then you devolve into constantly comparing Japan to places in the UK, and how the latter is just as good but underrated, instead of actually saying anything about Japan itself.
>>58911040
I only raise the UK because I live here. Actually even Estonia is more beautiful than Japan.
>>58896460
anime is not real
therefore you don't need to go to a real place to visit anime. stay in your room
>>58910255
That's why I'm too afraid to ever go out there. I'd be a huge asshole without even realizing it.
>tfw posted that with my flag
>tfw set myself up for easy bantz
>>58896061
>>58896101
Maybe you are expecting to much because you are European. I don't think any first world country outside Europe has the same standard than we have. Many american towns look like they belong to Mexico
Weebs
That's really 90% of it. All the shilling you see on here, reddit/imgur ect...Weebs
They want to live in a real life anime.
>>58906404
nigga that shit be far easier than those rules you have to keep on normal ID forums on the internet. you might be becoming like a chan's anonymous shitposter even irl
>>58904729
This is a fact. It's the reason people line up to buy garbage "Japanese cheesecake", or ramble on about the superiority of hokkaido chocolates.
>>58896061
Oriental landscapes are legitimately aesthetic and soothing to the eye, but much of that can come from it just being exotic. I'm used to what I have around me, thus find appeal in what I don't have around me, and I think this applies to many people.
It could also be mentioned that a lot of the landscapes in Europe look like they could belong anywhere within the continent, or even outside (such as how regions of North-America or even New Zealand have proper fjords), and while undoubtedly beautiful, it loses its appeal when it's not an entirely exclusive thing.
That's where things such as even your very own picture come in. Mount Fuji, a highly iconic peak that's not even the only one of its kind in Japan, but still something only to be found there. You also have China with all the amazing pillar-like mountains, Vietnam with its nifty fields, Thailand with its coastal islands etc., all that are beyond anything you'd see on our side of the world. Combine this with the exclusive vegetation and what-not, and it all results in a scenic and lush product.
That said, it's not like certain regions of Japan don't look like they could belong outside Asia either, such as already mentioned Hokkaido, which looks very European in more ways than one. But this also leads me to think that in your case, you simply seek Europe outside of Europe.
I believe the appeal of Japan simply comes from it being alien, but still advanced and orderly, which is something people from the developed world can relate to, and people from the non-developed world admire. But it may still be too alien, too weird, too odd, and ultimately not homely for some of us.
>>58914600
The more you praise Japanese, the bigger their ego becomes.
>>58897175
>Lawsons and 7/11
Anglo-Saxon franchize
>>58898159
totally agree
>>58915107
To be fair, it's an understandable ego. Europe is split into multiple fractions all having their share of fame, while Japan was (until recent decades) the only nation in Asia under its own rule the world actually cared about and respected as an equal.
>>58896061
Shinto is superior to Christianity.
>>58915372
Shinto in its current form is a manufactured religion, it was made up during the Meiji Restoration.
>>58915269
In some areas, yes. In terms of natural beauty, traditional culture, architecture etc?
Not really. If you seriously believe Japan has anything like St. Peter's and the Vatican Museums I honestly don't know what to say to you bro.
>>58915542
I consider your reply as "Yes".
>>58915542
>St. Peter's and the Vatican Museums
> Catholic Church loving boys
> while Japan loves loli
Got the difference?
>>58915898
You sound like a teenage weeb. I doubt you're even white.
>>58916063
His language sounds suspiciously like Japanese English.... Most Swiss I know, even Swiss French, speak way better English than that.
>>58916063
>>58916122
> two Brits talking about foreign languages.
>>58915542
>natural beauty
Refer to my wall of text.
And yes, I do believe they match ours. Though I also believe mainland Asia looks better.
>traditional culture
This was what originally captivated the Europeans many centuries ago. East Asians do have a beautiful traditional culture in their own right. And as mentioned, the Japanese having the most refined variant of it.
>architecture
This one is trickier, but you're comparing the products and combined development of multiple nations working together to produce beauty over literal millennia, while Japan is an island that hardly saw any outside influence aside from whatever Chinese monks could bring them.
Too much peace to help development, no empires to annex them, and no pressure from a church-like state to produce something amazing to please the God's with, and until industrialization, no proper rivaling nations to show power against or prove anything to.
They built to please their needs, and it's not like the earthquakes helped. Stone was also hardly as big a deal in Asia as in Europe, so most of their traditional architecture would just burn down or get destroyed by natural disasters.
And even with all that, you still see very pretty surviving castles, temples and shrines left that have survived for multiple centuries, looking new as ever. A lot of it is rebuilt, but a lot of it is also authentic. Same can be said for Europe, where when something loved went away, we rebuilt.
Is it as grandiose as European architecture? No. Never. But it's a different flavor. A quaint, more down to earth one.
>>58916483
>This was what originally captivated the Europeans many centuries ago.
See:
>>58904835
Early weebs (Lafcadio Hearn) just suffered from some sort of pathology. Victims of a 19th/20th century systematic marketing campaign.
There is no way you can compare stuff like Noh and Kabuki to the influence of people like Moliere and Shakespeare.
>believe mainland Asia looks better
Have you ever been to China?
I lived there. China has even less of its architectural material past than Japan, and outside of Yunnan the scenery isn't impressive, just yellow eroded soil as far as the eye can see outside of Beijing for example.
>Is it as grandiose as European architecture?
It's not about being as grandiose, it just isn't as varied and interesting.
>>58916751
>Early weebs (Lafcadio Hearn) just suffered from some sort of pathology.
I'm talking about the Portuguese, the Spanish, Dutch, French and British that were there way before Hearn, who took great respect to the Japanese way of life. Especially the early Christian missionaries wrote a lot about this.
>Have you ever been to China?
Is China the only country in mainland Asia? Though there's a lot more to China in my opinion than Yunnan. All provinces have interesting tidbits, with some of my favorite stuff being in Hunan.
It's also interesting when you mention Yunnan's scenery, as the nature around Lijiang (again) looks very European.
>It's not about being as grandiose, it just isn't as varied and interesting.
I've already covered this, and I can also add that that boils down to taste. Some people may find the white houses of Spain monotonous, or the bare-bones timberframe found all over Europe monotonous, but they're still beautiful in their own right. That's traditional architecture at its core for you.
Japan isn't varied, and there's little monumental stuff, but that's fine. It's one nation that for the most part grew on its own. In general terms, the country isn't even all that old. You can't treat Europe as one entity against a single nation.
>>58896101
Monterosso there.
I went in 2008.
>>58898159
>WW2
>right choices
>>58918511
>I'm talking about the Portuguese, the Spanish, Dutch, French and British that were there way before Hearn
Those people, for the most part, never forgot who they were and to have pride in where they came from, and to prefer their own homeland to that of racial aliens.
You are just a foreigner worshipper.
>You can't treat Europe as one entity against a single nation.
I'm comparing East Asia to Europe in that comparison.
>Lijiang
Do you really think it is as beautiful as Venice and the Veneto?
>or the bare-bones timberframe found all over Europe monotonous
It's not that uniform.
>>58919064
>Those people, for the most part, never forgot who they were and to have pride in where they came from, and to prefer their own homeland to that of racial aliens.
Nobody said anything about forgetting where you're from and what you are. Does that mean you can't take appreciation in something foreign?
>I'm comparing East Asia to Europe in that comparison.
Your entire thread doesn't make that very clear.
>Do you really think it is as beautiful as Venice and the Veneto?
>It's also interesting when you mention Yunnan's scenery, as the nature around Lijiang
>the nature around Lijiang
But hey, nature-wise? Much better. Reminds me of the inner alps.
>It's not that uniform.
To you it almost seems like it is.
You brush all Japanese architecture under one stroke just because most of it pertains to one genre.
Don't expect anything in life
