>Chinese
>Writing
>>58281778
>膣
What's your problem?
>>58281778
>>58282194
P.S. My country uses Chinese writing, but that kind of monstrosity would never exist. (It would be entirely impossible to write with a brush pen.)
It's called a logogram, OP.
>>58281778
鬼畜米英
>>58282305
Can Japanese understand Chinese writing?
Like, what percentage of this poem can you understand?
石室诗士施氏,嗜狮,誓食十狮。
氏时时适市视狮。
十时,适十狮适市。
是时,适施氏适市。
氏视是十狮,恃矢势,使是十狮逝世。
氏拾是十狮尸,适石室。
石室湿,氏使侍拭石室。
石室拭,氏始试食是十狮尸。
食时,始识是十狮,实十石狮尸。
试释是事
>>58283452
Very little. Like maybe 20%.
I can tell many vocabulary used in the poem, but I cannot understand how they are used.
However, Japanese people who studies Chinese classics will be able to understand much more (should be able to understand it all.) But they are probably very few to come to this site.
Maybe try futaba-chan?
If you need translate 英⇒和、I will help you!
this character is fake
it is made up of many characters as an illusion of a real one for the purpose of selling noddles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biangbiang_noodles
>>58283996
>it is made up of many characters
same with literally every other chinese character save for the radicals
>>58284117
no, it doesn't work like that
>>58283452
first line: stone room poet called shishi (施氏) likes lion swears to eat ten lions
>>58283831
No need for translation, i was just curious. ありがとう アノンさん
>>58283996
>>58284117
>>58284168
Alright, just let the Americans go at it for now. . .
>>58284295
寝なさい
>>58284696
マダ!
我在内四珍的害外人
>>58281778
>implying their writing system isn't beautiful
>>58284696
I am shut down nau
Good night.
>>58285628
A writing system does not need to be beautiful, but effective in relaying information, and easy to relay information with.
I could understand teaching classical Chinese writing in schools in order to show the cultural significance of the characters, however, no one should have to study for five years just to read a newspaper.
>>58285704
おやすみなさい
>>58285992
how anglocentric of you
>>58285992
But it looks soo good
>>58286111
This isn't just an Anglo idea. This is something that the Koreans adopted, and it is a huge success there as well. The Thai language has an alphabet, Hindi has an alphabet, and even Arabic has an alphabet. To call the idea of having a phonological alphabet anglocentric is idiotic.
>>58286411
what? The thai don't have an alphabet and hindi and arabic sure as shit don't either
>>58286594
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_alphabet
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_alphabet
Are you being retarded on purpose?
>>58286594
How compare Japanse and Chinese kanjis? If I learn ones I could understand the other or they changed a lot?
>>58285992
It's not like using chinese characters has no advantages at all
Example: All dialects are written the same, so if you don't understand them when they're talking you can always read what they're saying.
>>58287052
A slight benefit, but is it outweighed by the fact that many people can't efficiently read their own languages script?
Literacy rates in China are over 96%, however literacy is defined by reading 1500 characters if you live in a rural area, and 2000 characters if you live in an urban area. With over 10,000 characters, I would hardly define someone who can read 1/6 of what is written as literate.
>>58287286
>over 10,000 characters
Most of them aren't even being used, so there's no reason to learn all of them
I think you can read pretty much everything with 2000 characters.
Also I don't think using chinese characters is as hard as you might imagine (I don't know how hard it is but I don't think it's really that bad).
>>58287286
>>58287639
Even those who are literate are forgetting how to write without aid of a computer.
>>58286594
They're alphabets.
In fact, arabic and latin/roman have the same root, which is phoenician.
>>58287639
Wouldn't it suck if you couldn't read literature in English, but instead just everyday news and conversation?
Face it, the Chinese limit the common man's ability to read and write through the use of an outdated system.
>>58288626
>outdated
Nah, rather inefficient would be a better word. Same with Japanese though they have to rely on kanji due to a vast amount of homonyms.
>>58288723
>they have to rely on kanji due to a vast amount of homonyms.
p sure those homonyms are all chinese loan words
龘
>>58286178
Chinese looks the way the language sounds. :\
>>58291539
Good? Bad?
>>58291586
complicated
鬱
Check mate japan
>>58286925
They are the same but pronounced differently. Japanese adopted chinese writing after tjey alresdy had language
>>58287639
This. You can read about 99% of written Chinese with a knowledge of 2,000 characters. 5,000 characters allows you to read 99.9% of all text.
Although there are more than 50,000 Chinese characters that exist today, the vast majority are almost never used, with a few of them only ever being used once or twice in literature.
t. Chinese speaker.
>>58287286
And English has like what, 1.000.000+ words? I'm sure you know them all by heart too, John
>>58281778
You know that present Chinese cannot read nor write authentic Han characters. They can read and write the only simplified Han characters because CCP doesn't want Chinese peoples to access to their old records, books and literatures. Of course CCP had burned old records and books to hide real Chinese history.
>>58288497
I think arabic is called an abjad rather than an alphabet, but this is very technical
English is kinda special in a way because you can still read and understand writings 400+ yrs old.
Chinese and Japanese is gibberish to the average modern speaker from 150 yrs before.
>>58296498
most chinese literature from school, poems essays and records are printed in traditional in mainland
most modern rendition of classical writing like mozi and confucius are in traditional too because of lack of simplied counter part or that they were printed in taiwan and if you do read in china you have to be able to read some traditional, it is a must but a relatively easy skill
japan pls
I'm told that even Chinese forget pictograms constantly and oftentimes can't even read very simple things, is that true?
>>58298373
>Wherefore art thou Romeo?
>"I'm right here!"
No, we really can't understand writing from 400 years ago.
>>58303114
not really unless you are out of practice
you have to use it pretty regularly to retain good recall especially in writting
>>58295691
You're missing the point. I may not understand every word, but I can read every word.
>>58295537
That's just fine, however it doesn't negate the fact that it should not take years in order to properly read in your native language. Kids here can read as early as 3 or 4 years old. Can a Chinese child do the same?
>>58303623
yes but fluency is around the same level
vocab vs character recognition is more similar than you think
>>58303114
Not true at all. If a character is used even somewhat often, it makes it very difficult to forget. Think of it like learning a word.
>>58303623
Learning characters isn't as much of a problem as you think. Once you know the basics, it becomes easier and easier to memorize characters as you learn more of them, as there are many patterns that appear in written Chinese. I only know around 1,200 characters, and I've gotten to the point where I can usually accurately guess the pronunciation of a new character just by looking at it.
>>58290620
龖
どうや
>>58283452
The Chinese themselves can't understand that poem
>>58304720
the poem was designed for confusion that is its purpose when read
but on paper it's understood
>>58298373
We can understand writings that are 600+ years old. Depends on who wrote it, though. The Canterbury Tales is an easy read.
http://www.librarius.com/cantales.htm
>>58281778
I wish our writing system was that cute
>>58283452
Practically? 0%, and that's for a Chinese-speaker
>>58304896
>on paper it's understood
It isn't, unless you've learnt old Chinese.
>>58305268
not really 施氏 is his name
适 means 刚才, or 方才 it also means 方向
it is usage of ambiguity of meaning as well
the grammar is actually pretty modern because it lacks the specific reflexive characters in classical
>take mandarin course
>learn how to type in chinese
>have to use english to type in chinese
uh.. yeah. that's the sign of a shitty writing system. when you have to use a foreign writing system to type in your own writing system.
>>58305697
use 五笔 like chinese people then
just because you don't know it doesn't mean it doesn't exist
foreigners i swear
>>58305727
Pinyin is superior though.
>>58305813
it's proven to be much slower
>>58305727
>A typing system that has a high learning curve
How impractical.
>>58305887
it's like eve online but for typing
the risk is well paid in reward
>>58305829
Not if you type at 610 keystrokes per minute
>>58305934
even i have problems remebering the difference between -ing and in an and ang and so on
a second language speaker is no better, if you learn wu bi the chances of second guessing yourself lowers as well
>>58305727
The vast majority of Chinese people use pinyin to type. You know that, right?
>>58306003
the vast majority of americans use two fingers to type
pot kettle
>>58306029
Bad analogy. 100% of Americans use the QWERTY keyboard to type.
>>58303114
I think forgetting how to write it might be a more common problem. >>58288141
>>58306029
>American flag
>Talks shit about Americans
Hello, Wang Peng.
>>58306070
it's about making the best of a system
pinyin is easy to learn but it is not the most efficient
but i do know some azerty users
>>58306093
But is at least reading easier? I wouldn't give a fuck if could only recognize characters and write through pinyan on my computer.
>>58281778
What letter is that
>>58283452
Lmao this is that lion soup thing
>>58306178
yes the two skills, reading and writing, are more separate in Chinese than letter based languages because of low ratio of phonetic construct
Little blonde girl kept staring at me at the airport.
Then she turns around and says to her mother, "mom, that chinese boy over there is a hacker"
How did she ID me as spy?
>>58306259
i would get frustrated when little girls call a grown man boy but i am not you
>>58306292
This happened a while ago
>>58288141
I studied Mandarin for some years and that happens to me, I don't have a photographic memory so I tend to forget them, seriously it's so complicated
> uses shitty novelty character as an example of chinese being impossible
Why even try?
>at university
>take chinese because why the hell not
>only white guy in class. everyone else is a chink acting dumb
>first day. teacher makes me a chinese name
>Bai Da Wei
>my last name aint White
>>58306029
I use two or three fingers to write. Are there really people writing with more ?
>>58306361
it's david obviously
>>58306401
in chinese calligraphy you grip the brush with 4 four fingers
>>58306455
Nice to learn.
I'd really like to learn an asiatic language, but to think I had trouble with cyrillic and that's an easy as shit alphabet...
>>58306549
heavy phonetic are relatively easier but avoid thai
fun fact before proper translators westerners learned manchu to learn chinese because it was purely phonetic
>take Chinese class
>instructor painstakingly teaches us tones for a month
>as a reward, instructor teaches us a Chinese song
>mfw the song doesn't use tones
>>58306600
I don't pay much attention to tones and still they can understand me, I think they focus too much on it
>>58306631
not learning the tones is like getting the stress wrong
for basic speech it is okay but for complicated ideas you will speak like that facebook guy, very hard to understand even though he is showing off he is not doing the work
>>58306666
Nice quads, but what do you mean, that Chinese couldn't understand Zuckerberg's speeches?
>>58306600
>>58306631
Tones don't matter TOO much if you're doing basic speech, but if you wanna speak Mandarin fluently you're gonna have to learn 'em.
Plus if you don't use tones correctly you sound like a retard.
>>58306792
well see without tones you have to rely more on context and since he is slower to translate in his head you have to wait for the context to know which tone he probably meant
if he know his tones you can say something long into something sort easing the need for contextual clarification
>>58306881
sort = short*
>>58306406
That's my first name
>>58281778
Define "writing"
>>58306847
hardmode
>>58307055
Shut the fuck up, smart ass.
>>58303623
You're missing the point. Chinese writing system has a unique advantage over Western writing system when you come across unfamiliar words.
>>58286925
there're originally the same but simplified differently. They look similar enough so that you can recognize them though, but they're used and prononced differently
>>58306310
my japanese teacher alway told us you had to learn and forget a kanji 7 times to remember it forever
>>58307634
>simplified differently
no, japan did it first after the meiji restoration
then china wanted to be just like japan the simplified the ones japan simplified 4 decades prior simplifying the same parts differently
they are the cause of all this simplification paradigm
taiwan did not because they were the government forces at the time when the young revolutionaries wanted to copy japan's westernization
france pls
Korea did the right thing, ditching that archaic writing system made to keep peasants illiterate for a sane one.
>>58307700
so what you are saying is...they're simplified differently ?
>>58307596
What if you want to actually KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THAT AQUATIC ANIMAL IS? English and other phonetic languages can use a fucking dictionary. Do you know how impossibly difficult it is to look up the definition of a Chinese character in a book?
>>58285628
Yeah but simplified commie Chinese is an eyesore.
>>58307741
>number of strokes
>key
not that hard m9
>>58307737
the same parts but differently strokes
ie, same painting but different colors
>>58307671
then he probably is right, the ones I use more frequently are the ones I can better remember
>>58307767
method to madness, etc
>>58307858
This looks like a runic language
>>58281778
In the end that's nothing special, just 12 or so common radicals slapped together.
>>58307944
you see the first line is proper kangxi dictionary chinese, the first and last tradition comprehensive dictionary made just over 300 years ago
even though the taiwanese like to say they use traditional they really don't not 100% they use a mix of simpler traditional like that 5th character and some from the bottom, the japanese simplified
the story is not as simple as you like to imagine
>>58308037
It makes me thinks of all the different methods we had to draw the Latin alphabet, some of which are completely obsolete, like gothic, or how almost nobody write "a" like it's written in computer
>>58308110
americans do, don't they ?
>>58298373
I don't think so, English has changed a lot. You can read 500 yo spanish writing though
>>58308110
well yes but this is the print example for typeface
most of the traditional strokes are just pointless to write for common characters in witting hence most simplified forms are directly derived from schools of "scratch" calligraphy, there is a historical need for it because scribes must write so much so fast and an artistic shorthand was developed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursive_script_(East_Asia)
>>58308181
the a with the top tail? girls do it mostly
>>58307764
You basically have to search through the boom until you find a character that looks close enough. Since calligraphy styles differ from region to region, it becomes much more of a chore than it would be for a phonetic language speaker.
Daily reminder that the Greek alphabet is god-like.
>>58308270
And almost everybody knows at least the name of characters
I prefer Burmese alphabet, Arabic also looks nice
>>58308235
not true
chinese characters contain common radicals, e.g. 你(you) and 他(him) both have the same radical 亻(person)
dictionaries have a list of radicals in the first few pages, which leads to another section of the book that contains all the characters containing that radical and their corresponding page numbers
then again i have no idea why you would use a physical dictionaries when you can just write it out on an electronic dictionary / app
>>58308322
Sometimes people are attached to paper.
简体字或繁體字?
我覺得繁體比較漂亮,但是我更喜欢简体因为很容易写。
>>58308899
觉得漂亮是假的应为漂亮是从真假的方面上来看的
什么是你绝的“真的字体” 或者是“应该” 的 字体
在一个完美的世界里什么字体都是漂亮的
>>58309094
我说繁体字很漂亮因为很细密和艺术的,而是简体字比较rigid。
但是那只是我的意见。
>>58309478
eh it's mostly style while the strokes are nice to look at, the pure presentation of aesthetics comes from calligraphy where both simplified forms and traditional forms can show off their virtues
print form is at least for the act of printing to take away the stylistic approach to writing, beyond that complication itself is not aesthetics per se
>>58309478
traditional chinese is more beautiful, but my brain can only handle simplified
although it helps if you stay in taiwan for a long period of time
>all these people unironically defending hanzi and kanji
>>58309893
it's cultural appreciation
euros need not apply
>>58308899
it's just that simple, aesthetics vs practicality
sure, people will ooh and aah at the traditional character for turtle (龜) since it looks pretty fucking cool, but i doubt anybody would be willing to write it out on paper if they had to
>>58309893
>all these ASIAN people unironically defending hanzi and kanji
Fixed.
This kind of shit is why mandarin will never replace english as a global language.
>>58310303
it's not suppose to
how the fuck do asians memorizes thousands of runes?
???
>>58310375
don't focus on the character so much as the idea
how does the word idea mean idea
this is the same question
>>58310411
english is easy cuz we can pronounce it and shit and figure out what letters to use
runes cant
>>58310427
>english is easy cuz we can pronounce it and shit and figure out what letters to use
>>58310427
chinese character memorization does not rely on sound as much
this is why there is no intelligibility in korean japanese and chinese or even Chinese dialects
>>58306361
>>only white guy in class. everyone else is a chink acting dumb
this is why I switched to swedish
every other 'regular' language was just full of people who speak it already playing dumb which makes it really difficult for people actually learning it because the professor moves too fast
>>58310331
But now-a-days people are obssesed with "muh China superpower by 2050".
Shit, I hate the U.S.A, but i would rather have them as the sole superpower than chinks.
>>58283452
It's the stupid poem that uses the same sound over and over again
Besides it's in classical Chinese so native speakers won't even understand it. That's like asking a French person to read a latin text and expect perfect comprehension
>>58310470
people just want to be excited for change
but just look at translation
when was the last time you read something that was originally in chinese
with no material that people really want to read before/without translators the need is gone
chinese, historically speaking, is not a multi-culturally friendly. the modern globalist narrative is eroding the chinese language
in your lifetime you will probably see chinese with random foreign words in their original alphabet
>>58310447
>the "O" in women makes the short "I" sound
what
>>58310605
some people pronounce women as wimin
mostly brits
>>58310065
>2016
>using paper
stop talking cock lah
>>58310605
it sounds appropriately absurd, just as English is absurd
women is pronounced wJmJn and any sensible language worth a damn would try to recreate this pronunciation in writing instead of clinging to obsolete Renaissance system
people really spoke English they way it's written, but fucking centuries ago
>>58310656
>ing
try again
>>58281778
biang is a gimmick character that doesnt occur in regular writing. maybe on 2ch they make threads about how in english we have words like supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
