So did we win the War in Iraq or did we lose it because unlike other past wars, this is one that im not sure is either a victory or a loss
>>57632695
Well, it was quite clear there was no wmd's, sure you got Saddam eventually, but after that, the occupation was kinda meh, and then it all fell to shit.
I wouldnt call it a win, and I wouldnt call it a loss either.
Winners seem to be the oil companies, and everyone else are losers
>>57632695
You guys sure fucked Iraq up. Fuck America for that.
Big blunder but I strongly support the Kurds and also think that an Iran influenced Iraq is better than Saddam so not too bad desu.
>>57632885
>europeans actually believe it's americas fault
>>57632963
I'm sure that USA invaded Iraq on false pretext.
I doubt USA concerns were about Iraq really. Its was just a geopolitical tool in that region.
>>57632838
>Winners seem to be the oil companies, and everyone else are losers
This. American taxpayers get to foot the bill though.
>>57632838
>Well, it was quite clear there was no wmd's
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack
God will continue to bless America for his services to the true lord.
>>57632963
But it IS the USA's fault
Iraq was a tactical win, a strategic failure
Afghanistan was even worse
>>57632695
It was a victory for Iran.
>>57633095
>>57633024
Right, and instability in Iraq has nothing to do with sectarian violence between muslims.
USA gave them a chance to live civilly. They obviously chose to kill each other instead.
>>57633095
>the USA's fault
>>57632695
Winners: Israel
Losers: Everyone else
I don't think it's a win or a loss either, but it all goes back to oil/petroleum ever since 1953 and the coup orchestrated by the UK and carried out by the UK and US.
Blood for oil.
>>57633239
kike is right
>>57633065
By WMD i think he meant nuclear weaponry, ICBMs etc...
IMO it was a belic victory, but loss in general, only thw oiljews won that.
>>57633239
This is good. Fuck Saudi!
Saddamn's dead and buried and his regime is gone and there's no danger of iraq even potentially developing wmds.
I guess that counts as fulfilling the primary goals of the invasion.
You should instead be asking how worthwhile it was.
>>57633306
>By WMD i think he meant nuclear weaponry, ICBMs etc
It was chemical weapons too.
The meme that Saddam didnt have weapons of mass destruction is done.
>>57632695
We won the warfighting phase, but lost the reconstruction phase.
Technically both a victory and loss, though nobody cares that we crushed Saddam's military like a bug.
>>57633352
Saudi Arabia is a loyal ally of yours you massive cuck
>inb4 muh 9/11
Saudi nationals =/= Saudi government
>>57633456
I don't think it can be considered.
It's easy to fabricate them, even ISIS said that they're building now to use in Europe.
One thing is Kurds being gassed, other is a ICBM pointed to the White House.
>>57633382
I think it was pretty worthwhile because I'd love to see the Sunnis in Iraq and Syria totally marginalized. I just don't want to be the one who has to pay for it.
>>57633540
>One thing is Kurds being gassed, other is a ICBM pointed to the White House.
Kurds are US ally.
Iraq is shit because Iraqis don't exist. Iraq is a nation that existed thousands of years ago.
>>57633461
They spread wahhabism and setup madrasas all over the islamic world. Iran is a much better alternative.
>>57633661
>. Iran is a much better alternative.
>Yemen
>>57633617
That's not the point. The point is people would be more concerned of a nuclear bomb exploding in U.S soil than some sandniggers being gassed.
>>57632695
The objective was to get rid of Sadam Hussein. We got rid of him, so the objective was completed. Ergo we won.
>>57633714
>The point is people would be more concerned of a nuclear bomb exploding in U.S soil than some sandniggers being gassed.
I think you're projecting that.
>>57633707
What about it? Iran is supporting Houthis who want autonomy. Iran also supports Hezbollah and the Syrian government, both much better than Sunni Islamist and jihadist alternatives.
>>57632695
You tell me
>>57633845
>Hezbollah and the Syrian government
Ya; those parts of the world look nice.
>>57633065
Yeah not like anything important about "dismantling all WMD's" happened in between then and 2003....
>>57633858
Whats wrong with that? Better the Sunnis come out into the open and be defeated on the battlefield. They are getting their asses kicked and within a year Iraq will be totally controlled by Shia and Kurds as it ought to be.
>>57633239
Israel*
>>57633263
Where was this sectarian violence 1991-2003?
>>57633928
They did actually until the US and Saudi funded sunni terror groups in both countries that ripped them apart.
>>57633382
Might as well invade Russia and China and NK and Cuba and Venezuela and Syria and Libya and Pakistan and Vietnam as well since they are dictatorships with WMD's.
>>57633661
>a theocracy in competition for most beheadings with Saudi Arabia
>better
Well then
France was right
France is always right
>>57634202
I'm not saying they are ideal. I hate the Islamic Republic but they are preferable to the alternative. I would have much preferred the Shah crushing all its resistance in 79.
>>57633729
>we
What?
>the objective was to get rid of Saddam
No it wasn't.
Half won?
The goal was to remove Saddam and establish a capable friendly government.
Saddam was deposed but it's missing a "capable" replacement, that lead to ISIS taking a lot of Iraqi terrority.
>>57634260
You should have held onto Syria, Algeria, and Lebanon forever you fucks.
>>57634260
>All of the nations that resisted Iraq and Afghan invasion are hit worst by refugee crisis.
>>57632695
>we
>>57633953
>they are getting their asses kicked
Nigga a Sunni terrorist group has been in control of the second largest and fourth largest cities in Iraq for 2 years now.
The Kurds are now fully autonmous with their own military force and a contiguous connection with Rojava.
The only ones who got their asses kicked were the government.
>>57634396
>he wont pledge a blood oath to god for the freedom of mankind.
>>57634305
Mentally ill Western-backed (and Soviet-backed) dictators are the reason the Middle East is such an islamic shithole nowadays.
Assad at least is competent and redeemable. The Shah was an idiot who squandered infinite oil wealth.
>>57634456
Yes and now they are taking it back. ISIS has been pushed back considerably in Iraq over the least several months and here pretty soon the government, shia militias, and kurds will own the whole country and make sure the sunnis never pull this shit again.
>>57634364
At least they didn't spend $2 trillion, have 4500 deaths, and 24,000 casualties.
>>57634662
>At least they didn't spend $2 trillion, have 4500 deaths, and 24,000 casualties.
They will have 2x that is policing and crime.
And all they had to do was accept the terms of war.
>>57634564
I agree. I would have preferred mosaddegh. The democratic government would have been a whole lot better than the shah. But the shah was a whole lot better than the islamic republic.
>>57634019
Maybe within a Baathist political structure that held 30% of the population above the other 70%. Or maybe it was the mini-genocide in northern Iraq in where a million Kurds died?
>b-but saddam dindu nuffin!!
>>57634598
>they are being pushed back
So the Iraqis and Kurds, with the full backing of an entire coalition are slowly and barely defeating a literal terror group hated by the entire world?
It's been 2 fucking years. No one can even put a timetable on taking the actual Sunni cities of Mosul and Fallujah.
No one is a winner in this civil war.
>>57634803
don't forget the poor marsh arabs ;-;
>>57634737
If they invaded alongside us like Poland, they'd still have the refugees.
Are you this fucking retarded?
Fuck off
>>57634919
Did I say anything about invasion?
The terms of war are a completely different idea and concept.
Are you this fucking retarded?
i feel like 90-early 2000s were more fun than this shitty time
scuds, taping the rocket shelter windows, the whole etropine scare, intifadas, SAS, freedomizing the oilniggers, green light to shoot up terrorists, YAMAS in crime subarus and russian snipers fresh out of afghanistan
and the music was still good too
>>57634803
I said 1991-2003 stupid nigger.
A million kurds? Nice source.
There was very little sectarian violence 1991-2003.
I wonder what happened in 2003 and 2005 that fucked up Iraq immensely and led to a Shia dominated state with immense Sunni discrimination?
>>57634857
It will be hard for everyone involved. But uprooting ISIS when 20% of your population is sympathetic to them and they are in areas that are totally sunni doesn't happen overnight. But ISIS cant go on forever and there has already been massive progress from moths ago when they were on the outskirts of Baghdad. In the end the shias and kurds will have the whole country on lock down and this is far preferable to the prior sunni regime.
>>57634970
What the fuck are you saying?
This was the original post and it's absolutely retarded>>57634364
They'd have the refugees either way.
This level of idiocy and defense of the Iraq war can only come from one place
>>>/pol/
>>57634988
T-thats not true. We are still fun.
>>57632695
Iraq lost and I'm sure it's the only thing important
>>57635133
>They'd have the refugees either way.
They wouldnt have refugees if the United States was allowed to target more than 5 civilians are once.
Now you cant target with more than 11 civilians in range.
>>57635124
They are still on Baghdad's outskirts.
A few months? You mean since fucking April 2014.
When a rather stable nation in 2011 when America left, gets almost conqueted by a Sunni terror group, the government is the one that got BTFO.
It's been 2+ years. No one knows when it'll end.
America defeated the Taliban in 4 months. It looks like it'll take the Iraqi's with the entire coalition 4 years.
>>57635017
> led to a Shia dominated state with immense Sunni discrimination?
Cry more. A sunni dictatorship that oppresses 80% of the population will never come back.
>>57635217
>lost
Yeah and so did the whole fucking world.
>>57635133
>Would've got refugees even without the 2003 invasion
Use the door, please
>>57635334
Every fucking Iraqi wishes they could go back to before 2003.
What you see as a dictatorship, Iraqis saw as stability and prosperity.
Before we invaded, Sunnis make up 40-45% of Iraq stupid fuck. Just because we made millions of them leave doesn't make a Shia dominated state better.
>>57635446
Read the post chain KHAN.
The anon I responded to said that if France and Germany had invaded with us in 2003, they wouldn't have gotten refugees because America would have "killed them all"
Here's his post>>57635273
>>57635306
>They are still on Baghdad's outskirts.
Not en mass no. ISIS never had a chance. They didn't really conquer shit. They just sweeped through sunni areas because they had loads of support there due to sunnis being marginalized by the malaki government. Once the government and all the shia militias got organized and responsive they begun to clean house and they still are.
>>57632885
They shouldnt have had oil in their country in that case
Or they should have given it up when asked nicely by american corporations.
Hmm I wonder what happened in 2003 to make the amount of terrorist attacks increase 400%.
Mere coincidence.
>>57635017
>There was very little sectarian violence 1991-2003.
Maybe because anyone who smelled like dissent met a bullet to the brain. Why are you crying on behalf of the sand niggers anyway?
>In June 1994, the Hussein regime in Iraq established severe penalties, including amputation, branding and the death penalty for criminal offenses such as theft, corruption, currency speculation and military desertion, while government members and Saddam's family members were immune from punishments ranging around these crimes
>n April 1991, after Saddam lost control of Kuwait in the Persian Gulf War, he cracked down ruthlessly against several uprisings in the Kurdish north and the Shia south. His forces committed full-scale massacres and other gross human rights violations against both groups similar to the violations mentioned before. Estimates of deaths during that time range from 20,000 to 100,000 for Kurds, and 60,000 to 130,000 for Shi'ites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saddam_Hussein%27s_Iraq
>DINDU NUFFIN!!!1!!
>>57635572
>being THIS butthurt
>>57632935
>i support the kurds
which kurds though?
>>57635583
>they didn't conquer
Oh and that's why I personally saw 4,000 Iraqi soldiers exectuted en masse by ISIS forces in 2014.
>clean house
You mean have a failed state which is about to collapse because of low oil prices.
Pros:
- Removed Saddam
- Killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims. That's always a good thing.
- US military learned a hell of a lot from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars
Cons:
- Iraq is now under the Iranian sphere of influence
- Government forces so shitty that they have to use Iranian-backed Shiite militias to spearhead the fight against ISIS
- Iraq expects gibmedats in the foreseeable future
The Iraq War was definitely a strategic failure, but at least we killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims.
>>57635479
The kurds want to go back to being massacred and having sunnis moved into their territory? The shia want to go back to getting power drills used on their heads by the secret police? Bullshit. Stability mean fuck all when the population is being tortured.
>>57635669
My point stands.
You're simply wrong.
Find me a source that isn't wikipedia. The same website that claimed Iraq had WMD's 2001-2004 until it retracted its claims and apologized.
americans destroyed a civilization.
Iraqis say that even Ghangis Khan didnt cause their peopel so much suffering and hopelessness like americans.
good job USA, you have a bigger war monger reputation than mongols. lol
>>57635798
Oh and it's not now?
Instead the Kurds and Shias expell and genocide the Sunnis. I wonder why so many Sunnis supported ISIS in 2014?
There are many polls of Iraqis that show that they consider the Iraq War a horrible mistake by America.
>>57635750
>Oh and that's why I personally saw 4,000 Iraqi soldiers exectuted en masse by ISIS forces in 2014.
I'm talking about the big picture. Generally the government and militias are winning.
>You mean have a failed state which is about to collapse because of low oil prices.
The current government is far preferable to a sunni dictator that tortures kurds, marsh arabs, and shia
>>57636001
Thank you, but 2003 Iraq was not a civilization.
>>57635896
>Find me a source that isn't wikipedia
Ok
https://www.hrw.org/reports/1995/IRAQ955.htm
https://www.hrw.org/reports/1992/Iraq926.htm
http://reason.com/archives/2002/03/01/the-politics-of-dead-children
http://fas.org/news/iraq/1999/09/iraq99.htm
http://www.npr.org/2011/04/20/135570128/grave-discovery-in-iraq-unearths-sectarian-unease
https://www.hrw.org/reports/1991/IRAQ913.htm
>>57636001
Feels good desu
>>57636001
thank you based poland
>>57636134
>www.hrw.org
>>57636004
>Instead the Kurds and Shias expell and genocide the Sunnis. I wonder why so many Sunnis supported ISIS in 2014?
I have far more sympathy for the former groups though it is regrettable moderate sunnis have to get caught up in the mess.
>There are many polls of Iraqis that show that they consider the Iraq War a horrible mistake by America.
They don't know what they want. They need a guiding hand.
>>57636001
The muslim invaders destroyed the civilization long long before the US was even a thought.
>>57636205
>>57636001
the nicest thing i've heard about us on this board all day
>>57636205
>its a 'no source will ever be good enough for me' epsiode
I don't know, would you consider kicking a hornets nest and getting yourself and everyone around you stung a victory?
>>57635188
life is so shitty and bland and people are self rightous and annoying
and punk and post punk and goth rock and all that is not popular anymore
no more shitty coming of age/teen rebellion movies
no more ugly non fitting clothing and fugly cars with those digusting seat padding made from the same fabric as the seatbelt
no more beach dunes, they're all built over now
the abandoned orchard across the street from my childhood home is now a concrete tower filled with disgusting bydlo normies
there's no more world cup with my dad, teenage ninja turtles on VHS, no VHS at all, no shitty box TVs
rain doesn't smell like it used to
bread with ketchup oregano and swiss cheese tastes really shitty now
there's no more freedom
i don't have anymore time to fix things
i lost the oppurtunity for teenage love
>>57637182
And you're still a Jew. Life must truly be awful.
>>57632695
War?
Yes
Occupation?
No
>>57637397
i actually don't mind being a jew desu senpai
>>57637556
That's the problem.
>>57637695
let's agree to disagree
>>57632695
Everyplace the USA touches turns into hell.
>>57638521
Oh the ironing..
>>57635760
>Pros:
>- Removed Saddam
that is a bad thing
>- Killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims. That's always a good thing.
radicalized millions with your war
>- US military learned a hell of a lot from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars
learned about what? both countries were not fixed, should you have learned about insurgency and gorilla tactics in vietnam?
>>57635760
>Cons:
>- Iraq is now under the Iranian sphere of influence
iraqi government is a joke
>- Government forces so shitty that they have to use Iranian-backed Shiite militias to spearhead the fight against ISIS
government forces are isis
>- Iraq expects gibmedats in the foreseeable future
you killed hundreds of thousands of muzzie civilians remember?
also more cons;
you threatened turkey with war if we kept blocking your invasion, installed an islamist puppet to dismantle the kemalist army
with the iraq war you have caused the creation of isis, not to mention backing islamist rebels in syria
worst fucking ally ever
