Protestantism general
The true church, identifying it
https://youtube.com/watch?v=7aTnYz4r94o [Embed]
The heresies of Catholicsm
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/catholic_heresies-a_list.htm
A guide to denominations
http://protestantism.co.uk/denominations
How to go to heaven
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html
The difference between protestants and Catholics
http://www.exploregod.com/difference-between-protestantism-and-catholicism
Satanism in orthodoxy
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Russian_Orthodox/orthodox_idolatry.htm
>>57623096
ARE YOU KIDDING ME???????
>American bastardized Christianity
>>57623096
>2016
>Believes in religion
Silence Heathen! You will be purified by the holy flames of GOD'S WRATH for your heresy! Beg for forgiveness!
Look at the photo of Pope John Paul II, and notice the tiny Jesus. All I ever hear from the Catholic Church is how great the Pope is, the “holy father.” The Bible clearly warns us in Matthew 23:9 to call no earthly man our spiritual “father.”
Only God is to be reverenced. The Catholics not only call the Pope “father,” but literally idolize the man. The Pope is the vicar of Hell, not Heaven.
The picture to the right speaks 1,000 words. The Catholic religion idolizes the Pope. Look how the Pope is shown as big and mighty; but Jesus is portrayed as weak and helpless in the hands of the Pope.
“But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.” —Matthew 23:5-9
>>57623235
Catholics will defend this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDkjrJK5PHk
http://www.protestanterrors.com/
>>57623693
Most of the arguments in there are "protestants are against our so and so doctrine!!"
For example, this one
http://www.protestanterrors.com/#19
And this, a blank statement with no verses to back it up
http://www.protestanterrors.com/#16
This is easily debunked by the video in the OP
the Vatican is nothing! Who are they to forgive anyone's sins? Despite Catholicism's flawed theology which they claim gives them the power to forgive people's sins, the Word of God plainly states in Luke 5:21, "Who can forgive sins, but God alone?" Again in 1st Timothy 2:5 we are cautioned, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Yet, Catholic priests sinfully boast of having power to forgive sin. They do not!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/vatican_cannot_forgive.htm
Catholicism=death of the West
Look at this cuck, trying to push his Romanism on our protestant nation
Protestants
>>57623096
I clicked remove after I saw the © next to the restored church of god
>>57624611
Catholics
How the fuck is this shit /int/-related?
And a fucking general, to boot.
>>57625248
Tbqh familia Catholics and Orthodox have their own generals
>>57625296
Okay then, show me where the fucking Catholic and Orthodox generals are, you fucking cancerous poster
Seriously, take this fucking retarded general to /pol/ or /his/ where it belongs, don't pollute /int/ with your shit
Wow another heretic sect
t.orthodox, actually the real True Church
>>57626421
Orthodoxy still holds to many of the heretical shit catholicism does
Rituals, idolatry, 7 tennants, etc
>>57626512
we have no rituals, idolatry .I dont even know whats a tennant
>>57626702
>no idolatry
Tbqhfamilia you lads worship and kiss icons, and you out pictures and all sorts of images on crosses
Orthodox and Catholics worship the cross
>>57626902
WE DO NOT WORSHIP OR PRAISE ICONS OR WORSHIP THE CROSS!
stop this meme that came from jelous heretic protestants
http://www.orthodoxchristian.info/pages/Holy_Icons.htm
>>57627071
>WE DO NOT WORSHIP OR PRAISE ICONS OR WORSHIP THE CROSS!
>holy_icons.htm
>>57627071
Icons are still heresies
NO image must be made of anything holy
Tell me, why is protestantism heresy?
The Orthodox lie is discussed in the video in the OP btw
How many of you are actual Christians versus roleplaying as Christians to fulfill some crusader power fantasies
>>57627278
muslim detected
>>57627264
>>57626902
nobody worships the cross. I don't even know how to expand on that. it's just not true.
>>57627278
Also, tho Orthodox literally WEAR icons >>57627337
I'm actually a devout Protestant, I always try to be a perfect Christian
Most "Christians" on this board are Catholics because they want to identify with crusading and removing kebab, not because they believe in God
Why are protestants so obsessed with Catholics?
>protestants
>>57627400
Exodus 20:3-6
You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
>>57627411
We wanna save you from hellfire Enrique
>>57627470
t. short hair wanker
>>57627278
Icons are not heresies and they represent the image of God.Show me where does it state that no image must be made out of anything HOLY(keyword)
I do not watch protestant made or any other sect made videos.Your sect was created by a human, thus it is a heresy by definition.
>>57627470
because protestantism came from catholicism
>>57623096
>Protestants
>being anything other than wacky jesus cults
>>57627337
oooh me me me!
>>57627475
how does Exodus 20:3-6 relates to what I said here? >>57627571
>>57627071
Can you even read?
>>57627616
They are pictures of what is in heaven, which itself is forbidden
>>57623096
>be a heresy fringe group
>call the religion you split from a heresy
How does it feel rejecting the authority that created the bible in the first place?
let's discuss how no one wants to hire Catholics because they're lazy fucking shits
Protestant work ethic master race
>Catholics
>worshiping the whore of Babylon
>trying to bribe your way into heaven
>beatification
>giving a mortal man religious authority equal to God himself
>>57623381
"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matther 16:18
>>57624178
Catholic priests forgive sins In Persona Christi. They aren't the ones forgiving sins, they are forgiving them through Christ's intercession
>>57627854
The Catholic religion teaches that Jesus chose the Apostle Peter as the "rock" upon which Christ would build the Church. Matthew 16:18 reads "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." A simple cross reference of Matthew 16:18 with 1st Peter 2:7 reveals the true context, "Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner."
JESUS is the cornerstone upon which the Church is built. Even today, architects and builders realize that to build ANY structure, you MUST have a very accurate starting point upon which everything else can be built. Jesus is that Precious and Perfect cornerstone upon which everything in the Christian life is based. Surely, a flawed sinful man such as Peter could NOT have been the cornerstone of the church.
In Matthew 16:23, just five verses after Jesus spoke of the "rock," he called Peter "Satan." There's no way Jesus was referring to Peter as the "rock" in Matthew 16:18. Jesus Christ is the ONLY Rock upon which the Church is built..."For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ" (1st Corinthians 3:11).
>>57623381
>The picture to the right
>right
Both Protestantism and Catholicism are retarded, but catholics have the more interesting cult.
>Huge cathedrals
>Literally god tier music
>Cool outfits
>Illuminati rituals
Meanwhile protestants have
>Normal as fuck modern buildings
>Shitty country songs
>Dress in a fucking suite. Might as well go to Wall Street
>Sing with niggers
>>57627278
Protestantism is not a heresy. It's just plain stupid.
There are THOUSANDS of translators mistakes or intentional changes introduced to the Bible over the centuries, of various theological importance. Some passages were even unknown until the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, so the Bible as Luther knew was simply incomplete - and most probably it still is.
>b-but muh sola scriptura
According to Genesis the sky is solid and covered with water. Remember, boys and girls, space is a hoax and so is GPS.
>>57626421
>Orthodox calling Catholicism heretic
We both have apostolic succession breh
>>57627637
how do you know what heaven looks like
>>57627854
another heresy.Peter was never the rock.
>>57626902
>Orthodox and Catholics worship the cross
Orthodox and Catholics don't worship anything but the Trinity
veneration=/=worship
>>57627906
So why not ask for forgiveness through God? By get it from a priest?
>>57627955
I prefer the protestant one
>>57627965
>what is KJV
American protestantism is trash
Catholocism at least carries over a little bit of real culture from the old world
it's ok to want to be apart of a big league of good lawful and nice white people. But never forget that religions and gods were created by some illiterate goat fuckers in the middle east 2000 years ago. It's bullshit.
But yes, OP's pic is dreamy. Great societies we have/had, but religions are not the only way to achieve and recreate these societies. But I get the nostalgia,
t- atheist
>>57627940
You are now aware that the Greek form of Peter literally means rock
>>57626902
>if we just ignore the entire history of christianity and arbitrarily declare that only the bible is without error, then selectively interpret it in our own unique way separate from every other brand of protestantism, we can see that clearly catholicism and orthodoxy are idol-worshiping shits!
>catholics unironically think that they can buy their way to heaven
Catholocism is over doing it way too much, protestantism is nice and sober
>>57627940
this.the catholics missmatched the words for political power.
>Ameriblubber christianity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNMC19X9EXo
>>57623096
>The true church
which church lol
there are like a billion proddie cults
>easy 12 step guide how 2 b save
oh my Christ
>>57628019
This sacrament is rooted in the mission God gave to Christ in his capacity as the Son of man on earth to go and forgive sins (cf. Matt. 9:6). Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power "glorified God, who had given such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8; note the plural "men"). After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers, telling them, "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:21–23).
>>57628059
Well, you have figured it all out, haven't you?
>>57628019
>I prefer the protestant one
Well, not everyone can have good taste
>>57628019
>KJV
>the basis for translation was Septuaginta
top kek
wise words from an orthodox monk.Orthodox monks live isolated for decades in nature and pray for hours,sometimes all day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V8woyTxBbo
I was raised Catholic, I live in NJ and I went to once a week Catholic school called CCD
Our church had statues of Mary, Jesus, and Peter
The priests would tell us to bow and pray to a statue, then move to the next
Catholics will, defend this
>christfags
>>57628352
all wil be judged at the end brother, don't be the wrong seed that fell on the path
modern day "christians" are fucking embarrassing scum.
How do they even walk with their heads raised is beyond me.
okay here's a good question, who's worse
Calvinists or Catholics?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartholomew%27s_Day_massacre
Catholics will defend this
Catholics will defend this
>they way to be a good christian is to shit on catholics, calvinists, orthodox, protestants...
lmao
you guys are geniuses
>>57628458
No we won't
>>57628450
Catholics = true Church
Calvinists = muh predestination
>>57628505
I'd defend this any day. Looks cool as fuck.
>>57628318
>protestant god
>>57628505
Protestants will never understand what it is like to have faith
>>57628554
so how much have you spent to get into heaven?
>>57628617
>Catholic God
>>57628658
We have faith in God, we don't have faith in Popes and false idols
>>57628722
>Catholic God
>>57628505
Even catholics have more respect for muslims than protestant.
So I'm Jewish but interested in Christianity. From a third party view Catholicism seems the most shit to me but I'm still open, so convince me why your sect is right and your most important beliefs.
>>57628834
Catholicism adds many many doctrines that go against the Bible
>>57628772
Still wiser than you and your sect.
>>57628834
>From a third party view Catholicism seems the most shit
lmao
prodestants are a complete joke and completely misunderstand the very basics of faith
I'd say Orthodox are the most "legitimate" though Catholics have a better intellectual/philosophical diversity
>>57628834
catholics like to show off, protestants are just purely about the faith nothing more nothing less, they also don't believe in weird things like mary being randomly impregnated by air
>>57628834
You need to draw your own conclusions by studying early church history imho. Protestants ignore that though or even reject it, so you are only left with Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
>>57628881
Protestants remove entire books and verses from the bible
they are muslim tier and its their fault everything is shit now
>>57628923
cathoshit shill
>protestants think they are relevant
>catholic thinks they aren't traitors
>>57628968
Like what?
>>57628968
>they are muslim tier
actually were the opposite, we had a modern reformation you still believe in the same shit from the start like mudslimes, kill yourself unfaithful dog
>>57628983
UMMM....?
the Emperor was the traitor thinking himself akin to Jesus and setting up his own pseudo-church in the East meanwhile losing half of Christendom to the moselms.
>>57629064
>>57629018
other way round m8
Muslims are highly literalist, they worship the Quran as the only truth possible, and they are also hyper legalistic/rationalistic thinking all nuances of faith need to be broken down and rationalized by the logic of the bible/quran.
but proddies are worse because Muslims at least recognize that usury is shit and only leads to social disharmony.
we should remember that modern atheism and capitalism are the creations of the Protestants.
Good lads.
American protestantism is fucking shit though.
>>57629209
you got ir wrong its the other way round m8
>>57629273
take that idea and flip it around then you've got it correct
>>57628834
there is a reason why when jews convert to christianity they ALWAYS go Orthodox.
>>57629263
American Protestantism isn't full of leftist shills
>>57629339
Instead it's full of completely insane people.
>>57629305
nah but for real though I don't hate catholics they are just overdoing shit with faith, theyre too materialistic and to dense to think that every person faithful to god and being kind to other poeple is a good person, tehy think you need to do all kinds of extra shit to be a good person in catholic book
Anglicans are the most respectable Protestants
desu "High Anglicanism" is probably closest to the proper intent of the Church.
Orthodoxy is too caught up in ritual superstition and ethnic squabbling
>Let's just reform a lot of aspects of the faith and claim we're faithuful
You all know you're shit but you're gonna try to prove me otherwise
>>57629409
"Not by faith alone"
>wow I have to actually DO good things and not
>>57623096
>implying a human being like jesus is god
ahahah.
>mfw catholics want me to worship a literal cuckold
>>57629501
he's both
>>57629415
>Orthodoxy is too caught up in ritual superstition and ethnic squabbling
the ritual superstitions have nothing to do with orthodoxy.
>>57629501
everyone who denies Jesus being the Son of God is the AntiChrist.
begone muslim heretic.
>>57624243
>Pope discretely does line off Koran.
>>57629469
thanks for reading the whole thing because i can see you did that
>>57627854
It's like protestants just skip over this part. Actually, they never read the Bible anyway, they wouldn't know
>>57629620
they just remove parts of the bible
>>57628834
Protestants
>simple honest people who love God
Cathocucks
>"""""venerate""""" idols in the form of Saints/Mary, worship in gaudy and wasteful churches
Orthodox
>meme denomination for hipsters
>>57629661
because they are in it does not have to mean they are the truth of god like mudslimes believe
>>57627940
reminder that 'Peter' literally means Rock
and that the whole "redeeming sinners' gimmick was a pretty big deal for Jesus
>>57627403
>Also, tho Orthodox literally WEAR icons
That's just swag faggot.
>illiterate americuck tries to lecture others
Go back to your containment board.
>>57629677
>hipsters
diaspora* desu
>>57629724
>the bible is the sole and only truth
>except the parts we don't like
you're already Muslims anyways.
I love the le Petrine Doctrine meme
so everyone is supposed to accept your fucking retarded translation of a vague passage from the bible?
>>57629660
Sorry, I ALWAYS disregard the OPINION of ANYONE who types like THIS, capitalizing RANDOM WORDS.
>>57629789
We may be the equivalent of Muslims but you Catholics ARE Satanists
Cyкa блять
>>57629677
If you are against Orthodoxy then you are a heretic.
In year 33 , Jesus Created the One True Church, which was split, but had the same doctrine, in West and East.After the Schism, the West called itself the Catholic one and changed the doctrine while the East called itself orthodox and kept the doctrine
Just to clarify, Orthodoxy derives from Orthodoxia (pronounced Orthodoksia) and the two words that consists of are Orthon (Ορθόν - correct/true) and Doksa (Δόξα - glory/faith), and the word orthodoxy is to litteraly describe practices and beliefs that haven't deviated from original teachings.
I.E. an orthodox can be a marxist that follows Marx's teachings to the letter. Cultural marxists are revisionists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodoxy
>>57629789
who are you quoting? I can't see how i implied that we take everything that is not removed literally? Because your fiath equal to islam takes everything out of a book does not mean every other fait does it
>>57628834
Just go with Mormonism 2bh
>>57629415
Anglicans literally exist because Henry VIII wanted to fuck younger pussy.
>>57629767
It's also the denomination of choice for contrarians on /pol/ and /his/ who had to convert to Christianity because edgy atheism became associated with Reddit
Here is a list of Catholic heresies and false traditions
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/catholic_heresies-a_list.htm
Read this and tell me Catholicism is the "true church"
>>57629514
I thought that idea would be appealing to swedes
>>57629930
>IF YOU ARE ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN, YOUR RELIGION WAS FOUNDED IN THE YEAR 33 BY JESUS CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD. IT HAS NOT CHANGED SINCE THAT TIME. OUR CHURCH IS NOW ALMOST 2,000 YEARS OLD. AND IT IS FOR THIS REASON, THAT ORTHODOXY, THE CHURCH OF THE APOSTLES AND THE FATHERS IS CONSIDERED THE TRUE "ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH." THIS IS THE GREATEST LEGACY THAT WE CAN PASS ON TO THE YOUNG PEOPLE OF THE NEW MILLENNIUM.
>If you are Roman Catholic, your church shared the same rich apostolic and doctrinal heritage as the Orthodox Church for the first thousand years of its history, since during the first millennium they were one and the same Church. Lamentably, in 1054, the Pope of Rome broke away from the other four Apostolic Patriarchates (which include Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem), by tampering with the Original Creed of the Church, and considering himself to be infallible. Thus your church is 1,000 years old.
.
>If you are a Muslim,your religion was founded around year 600 by a rapist,pedohpile and thief band leader,Muhammad who plagiarised the Quran
>>57628027
Also Catholic and Jesuit Universities are top tier. I mean what do protestants have? Liberty University?
>>57629981
If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as "Church of the Nazarene, Pentecostal Gospel," "Holiness Church," or "Jehovah's Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past hundred years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther a 120kg priest in 1517, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, who uncovered the Catholic papist church falsity. In doing so he showed that the Papacy didn't go back to the time of Christ, was based on a gross misinterpretation of the Bible.
>If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to re-marry
>If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.
>If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.
>If you are Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England, founded by Samuel Senbury in the American colonies in the 17th century
>If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1606.
>If you are of the Dutch Reformed Church, you recognize Michelis Jones as founder because he originated your religion in New York in 1628
>If you are a Methodist, your religion was founded by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1774
>If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, New York, in 1829
>If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865
>If you are Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>57629808
Catholics will look away from the truth for the dumbest reasons
>>57629930
>false religions
Fuck off, fat piece of shit.
>>57629919
>judging a religion by what a bunch of teens on a chinese basketweaving forum do
>>57630038
DAILY REMINDER:
vs Christian Zionism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtz995yz4-s
vs Jews
http://www.preteristarchive.com/ChurchHistory/0386_chrysostom_adversus-judeaus.html
vs Turks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVGTudBwR6Q
vs Catholics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuw_ZD_Wnlc
vs Protestants
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGtQpLmEP14
vs Atheism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaWnGqNZb9c
vs Communism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoAEKHBtNIA
vs Muslim refugees
http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/86743.htm
vs ISIS
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/russia-syria-air-strikes-are-holy-war-against-terrorism-says-russian-orthodox-church-1521847
vs Pop Culture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfY_ERWNjb4
vs Moral and Social issues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOIdSsQ9Ea8
vs Girly Pastors, Feminine Churches, men not acting like men
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFlC3mwRjP4
>>57630056
>the truth
wew lad
>>57628178
>>57630038
My Church was found by Jesus Christ. When current impostor of such church does (and did) its best to throw this legacy to dumpster, I don't feel obliged to identify with this impostor
>true church
>literally the pack of different cults
I respect only russian protestant church. Maybe USA has some adequate churches too.
But Christianity isn't only Bible.
You have to learn Russian and watch and read Andrej Kurajev's articles and lections.
>>57630202
Jesus Christ only founded ONE CHURCH and from all the churhces existent today only Orthodoxy kept the same holy traditions and teachings of Holy Fathers!
>>57630326
I agree about the Holy Fathers, but I respect Catholicism too, I actuall an angostic with a sympathy to Cristianity.
PROTESTANTS FTW
HOW OD I PROTESTANT IN CROATIA OR SHOULD I MOVE TO USA?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOkuZLxUjqg
>>57630326
>and from all the churhces existent today only Orthodoxy
How about Coptic, Syrian, Ethiopian and Oriental churches (all of which arre technically independand of Russian Orthodox) or is ti ONLY muh Orthodoxy
>>57631343
see >>57629846
and if im not wrong then the coptic,syrian,ethiopian and oriental are pretty much orthodox except the fact they dont accept the Council of Chalcedon from 451
>>57631343
and im not speaking about russian orthodox church because Orthodoxy has no relevance to it.Orthodox is not a "russian" or slavic religion, this is a myth from fools.Its that Russia has the highest numbers of orthodox people , thats why this myth comes from.
>>57631667
>and if im not wrong then the coptic,syrian,ethiopian and oriental are pretty much orthodox except the fact they dont accept the Council of Chalcedon from 451
...which makes them a different church and you have to treat them as heretics if you are to go the way of ONE TRUE CHURCH TO WHIHC ALL OTHER ARE HERETICS
>>57631744
>orthodox church because Orthodoxy has no relevance to it.Orthodox is not a "russian" or slavic religion
true, but Russian Orthodx considers everything exepct them and Serbs heretics (if Im not mistaken), these are the implications of MUH TRUE CHURCH idead.
protip - in the book of apocalypse churches already seemed pretty independant/different
>>57631343
Coptic, Syrian, Ethiopian, Oriental are alright and I'd view them as orthodox brothers, with minor dogmatic differences, rather than heretics or schismatics.
The only issue being the fact that we ended up with the whole multiple patriarchs thing, but that's alright I suppose, until we can reconcile some things.
>>57631966
>The only issue being the fact that we ended up with the whole multiple patriarchs thing, but that's alright I suppose, until we can reconcile some things.
what is the cutoff for heretic then? you have to be pretty clear on this and not just base it on your sympathies
>>57631936
no no heretic means that you changed the doctrine.The oriental churches did not.
Russian orthodox dont consider anyone heretics except them them and serbs and macedonians , its that they use the old calendar, the Julian one.This is not a problem, its irrelevant.
>>57632100
By definiton if you dont follow the original christainity teachings, meaning the same holy scripture and teachings of Holy Fathers, you are a heretic.
>>57631936
>true, but Russian Orthodx considers everything exepct them and Serbs heretics (if Im not mistaken), these are the implications of MUH TRUE CHURCH idead.
Russia tried to go for a powergrab vatican style and failed. They don't consider other orthodox heretics though, there are just other minor dogmatic differences (similar ot how the coptics, ethiopians, syrians, etc. are).
Calling them heretics would be like calling a heretic someone who pronounces "Jesus" slightly differently; it is too minor and does not affect the true integrity of the church. Heck, IMO Catholics are only heretics because of the whole papal infallibility thing and maybe the chasteness of priests thing, otherwise they are merely schismatics. Protestants vary a lot between mere schismatics and outright heathenry.
>one man single handedly btfo the whole cathocuck church.
>>57632100
The cutoff for heresy is where you have to do with major differences that directly affect the integrity of the church. Miaphysitism for example does not affect the integrity of the church; it is at best a philosophical question that would change nothing in what we do, and squabbling over it is what I would say is heresy.
Things like papal infallibility and muh papal primacy do affect the integrity of the church, as do things that would change what is sinful and not sinful (i.e. if a denomination started claiming killing people is a-ok, that would be heresy). Everything else is theological/philosophical debate on our understanding.
I see a pretty clear cutoff, in that respect. Heck, it applies to rituals too - modifying the rite slightly does not make you instant heretic.
>>57632155
>By definiton if you dont follow the original christainity teachings, meaning the same holy scripture and teachings of Holy Fathers, you are a heretic.
well, protestant theology is far more fundamental and similar to early church than orthodx or cahtolic. transubstation and praying to mary and saints came after, and you can spin the scripture as much as you want to prove otherwise but prot theology is far more in line with the Bible than anything else.
>>57632162
>Russia tried to go for a powergrab vatican style and failed. They don't consider other orthodox heretics though, there are just other minor dogmatic differences (similar ot how the coptics, ethiopians, syrians, etc. are).
interesting, but from what I know then look at other orthodoxies as 2nd tier?
>>57632498
Again, it's because Moscow always wanted to do a power grab of all Orthodoxy. This actually was continued during the commie era, since the USSR wanted to control eastern european countries through the church (they kind of failed in some respect, but the effects linger).
It's kind of news to me that they'd look at other orthodoxies as 2nd tier, though.
>>57632498
>protestant theology is far more fundamental and similar to early church than orthodx or cahtolic.
false.there cannot be anything closer to original faith than the original faith(orthodoxy).Also protestantism was created by a human, thus this is heresy.
> transubstation and praying to mary and saints came after
they came with the new Testament and there is nothing wrong with this.
I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon). Ama
>>57632734
>false.there cannot be anything closer to original faith than the original faith(orthodoxy).
and you say that based on what?
>Also protestantism was created by a human, thus this is heresy.
no its not, its purely and eniterly NT belief in its most primitive and original form
BELIVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND YOU WILL BE SAVED
>they came with the new Testament and there is nothing wrong with this.
praying to Mary and idols/pictures has ZERO NT or OT basis, unless you are refferin to strawman theotokos arguments like pic rel
>>57632921
>Mormon
how many universes are there?
>>57632921
I used to go on those mormon live chats and btfo them
>>57632983
>and you say that based on what?
oh i laughed.On logic obviously Nothing is closer to 1 than 1.
>no its not, its purely and eniterly NT belief in its most primitive and original form
lol your religion was founded by Martin Luther a 120kg priest in 1517, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church,because he got kicked out of the church.
see
>>57630038
>praying to Mary and idols/pictures has ZERO NT or OT basis, unless you are refferin to strawman theotokos arguments like pic rel
Praying to others other than God is heresy in Orthodoxy.This is a common old wife tale that we "pray" to icons,saints etc.
>>57633230
>>and you say that based on what?
>oh i laughed.On logic obviously Nothing is closer to 1 than 1.
>>no its not, its purely and eniterly NT belief in its most primitive and original form
>lol your religion was founded by Martin Luther a 120kg priest in 1517, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church,because he got kicked out of the church.
>see
this is the beast you can do? not ONE scripture reference?
>Praying to others other than God is heresy in Orthodoxy.This is a common old wife tale that we "pray" to icons,saints etc.
oh so its a tale...silly me, because I literally thouhg you kiss idols and things
>>57632983
>>57629409
>BELIVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND YOU WILL BE SAVED
Matthew 7:21
21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
>>57632983
I'm not sure that we have any doctrine on an exact number of universes, but the pearl of great makes it clear that God has created "worlds without end", meaning that there are countless planets created under his direction. It also states that we aren't the first world he's created, nor are we the last he will create.
>>57633474
I do not have to provide any scripture reference because the burden of proof is on you.
the meme that we worship or pray to icons came from protestants.
http://www.orthodoxchristian.info/pages/Holy_Icons.htm
>>57633497
you are looking for this
>I never knew you
once who will be rejected never knew Jeses i.e. were saved in the first place BUT had the power of God to do miracles. Best example is Judas Iscariot who did miracles but "never believed".
>>57633602
>I do not have to provide any scripture reference because the burden of proof is on you.
how so? I already argued that prot theology is NT at its core here>>57632983
>BELIVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND YOU WILL BE SAVED
>the meme that we worship or pray to icons came from protestants.
what an intellectually dishonest douchebag you are, the mere fact that you can call Icons made by human hands holy is the proof of your dishonesty.
>>57633602
don't feed me with that "i-it's not true we actually w-worship saints!" bullshit. I had enough of it in my life. Dedicated prayers, use of words like saint, holy, which should be left only for God, churches full of saints and Mary instead of Jesus and so on. Catholic and Orthodox deception doesn't work for me
>>57633497
>I never knew you
here you go
>John 6:64-65, "But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
>>57633962
yeah, its the same old same old "it might look like X, we treat it like X, and talk to it like X, BUT it ACTUALLY isnt X" dishonesty,
>>57633864
were did you argue that the prot theology is NT?
The icons are called holy because they are a gateway to God.We do not pray to icons(the physicall item), instead we pray to God through icons.This is a huge difference.
>>57633962
we do not worship saints either.we do not worship anyone except God.
>>57634064
lie repeated does not become truth
>>57634064
You don't need icons to pray to God
>>57634219
were did I lie?Stop with the false accusations.
>>57634234
True.
>>57634064
>>57633962
>The icons are called holy because they are a gateway to God
>The icons are gateway to God
>THE ICONS ARE GATEWAY TO GOD
isnt that Jesus?
>>57634064
>we do not worship saints either.we do not worship anyone except God.
are icons a gateway to God as you said then?
>>57634064
>>57634300
>The icons are called holy because they are a gateway to God
1 Timothy 2:5 New International Version (NIV)
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus
>>57634300
>>57634354
gateway has different meanings.In this context,
the meaning of the gateway of icons is:
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.John 14:8
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has SEEN ME has SEEN the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
What the Bible teaches through words, the icons show through images.The Holy icons representing Jesus is to show his dual nature and that he was made from flesh.("The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us "John 1:14)
We venerate and NOT worship the icons, meaning we respect the one they represent.
brb for 20-30minutes i go outside
>>57635009
>Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.John 14:8
>Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has SEEN ME has SEEN the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
have you seen Jesus? can you represent Jesus? Why do you represent him with images when God strickly commanded you not to do that?
>We venerate and NOT worship the icons, meaning we respect the one they represent.
>gateway has different meanings.
there you go again with that doublespeak, have you read 1984 btw?
>>57635482
>have you seen Jesus? can you represent Jesus?
this is a 1st grade argument.
>but you didnt represent his 3rd forehead wringle
>Why do you represent him with images when God strickly commanded you not to do that?
No, God dissalows the making of IDOLS aka images of FALSE god and PRAYING to them because he is a GELOUS God.
> 1984
i dont know whats that
>>57636430
>he is a GELOUS God.
and somehow your prayers to saints and Mary don't affect that?
>>57636794
hey "that protestant pole" are you that Lutheran?
>>57636794
Did you even read what I posted?We don\t pray to them, we respect them aka VENERATION not WORSHIP.We STRIVE to be like them, to follow their true path.
>>57636888
>Lutheran
not really, more of a Pentecostal/Baptist
>>57636900
>We don\t pray to them, we respect them aka VENERATION not WORSHIP.We STRIVE to be like them, to follow their true path.
pic rel is far more than "respect"
>>57637188
>Pentecostal/Baptist
what then? I dont like pentacostals desu, most of the time, they act like idiots, baptists are pretty cool
>>57636900
and that's why you pray to them
quit lying, there are designated prayers to saints and Mary
>>57637228
what is your pic suppose to imply?
>>57637238
Do I have to use "" and explained in separate paranthesis the different meanings of words?I thought you have enough synapses to do it yourself.
To explain to you we pray to icons of Saints and Mary so they pray for us to GOD.We do not pray to Saints because they are God(aka worshipping) we simply ask them to pray for us to God,since they sit at His side.
brb 10-15min
>>57637465
>what is your pic suppose to imply?
that you are lying about the true nature of things to me and to yourself
>>57637465
>To explain to you we pray to icons of Saints and Mary so they pray for us to GOD.We do not pray to Saints because they are God(aka worshipping) we simply ask them to pray for us to God,since they sit at His side.
so you pray to icons, finally saying as it is.
God strickly forbids praying to dead people.
Jesus, nor any prophet prayed to Moses or Elijah.
>>57637228
as a kid I attended Pentecostal church. and Baptists here are hardly different
>>57637465
>we simply ask them to pray for us to God,since they sit at His side.
they don't, that where Jesus sits. the one you're supposed to ask for salvation, the one who is the way to Heaven. repeting Hail Mary is not the way
>>57637659
>as a kid I attended Pentecostal church. and Baptists here are hardly different
do you still go to church. crappy rock music at pentacostals and general overemotional behavious is what bugs me with them
>>57623096
>that pic
ah the 1950s america, dad's a good upstanding citizen and a closetted homosexual, mom's drugged up and literally floating around, lil Johnny is still totally unaware that he'll be shipped out to 'Nam and returned in a coffinbox and lil sweet Suzie, well she'll get involved in the hippy movement, end up doing copious amounts of hallucinogens, giving birth to a fatherless baby in a commune and then end up all down and out.
The American Dream.
>>57637827
no, after my parents divorced I stopped going, and never really came back
>>57637641
>that you are lying about the true nature of things to me and to yourself
explain yourself.
>so you pray to icons, finally saying as it is.
yes, we pray to icons like i said from beggining but we dont pray at the meaning that you and protestants claim(worshipping).
>God strickly forbids praying to dead people.
Jesus, nor any prophet prayed to Moses or Elijah.
False. Asking a dead person for direction is DIVINATION! This is what is condemned in the Deut. 18 passage and NOT in any way comparable to the request for intercessory prayer for those who are ALIVE in CHRIST. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."
Again you dont know how to read the Bible.
>>57637659
Heaven is not physicall, sitting by his meaning they interceed with Him.
>>57637873
>no, after my parents divorced I stopped going, and never really came back
sorry to hear that, but it makes two of us. I dont attend churhc either, but Jesus was and is the backbone of my life so Im technically a protestant...
>>57638483
>Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."
I know my Bible pretty good, but unlike you I also understand it. Yes saints are around to throne of God, but where does it say to pray to them?
narrative=/=normative
>>57623096
I honestly believe my branch of Christianity is a lot closer to Catholicism than a lot of other protestant denominations.
It's silly to think of Christianity in terms of Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Protestantism, because Protestantism encompasses everything from Calvinists to Seventh Day Adventists.
>>57638718
>I know my Bible pretty good, but unlike you I also understand it
i have yet to see you understand it and not read it word by word like an amateur/protestant.
>Yes saints are around to throne of God, but where does it say to pray to them?
again logic.If Saints received the prayers from humans and even gave them to God it means God allows this.
>>57623693
absolument basée
>>57623926
The ecumenical councils are legit though
>>57638483
>Asking a dead person for direction is DIVINATION! This is what is condemned in the Deut. 18 passage and NOT in any way comparable to the request for intercessory prayer for those who are ALIVE in CHRIST.
God is the God of the living! lk 20 : 28
Bible isnt so clear at what happens after death, but its clear that in the moment of resurection we will be alive, you however are praying to things/spirits you dont understand by praying to dead people
>>57638871
>i have yet to see you understand it and not read it word by word like an amateur/protestant.
read below
>again logic.If Saints received the prayers from humans and even gave them to God it means God allows this.
its a vision, vision contains alegories and needs knownig of scripteres and interpretation and not just picking the first thing that sutis your religion in order to clear the cognitive dissonance.
the number of ELDERS (where did you find "saints") in Rev 5:8 is strickly 24 Elders/Old men. It clearly interprets as Angels (Seraphims?? ) at the thorne of God who have a role in prayer as moment in Daniel 10:12 clearly describes and who worship God at Rev 4:10.
Jacob lied to his dying father in order to recive blessings and God blessed him but was that Gods will - for him to lie?
>>57639416
>God is the God of the living! lk 20 : 28
and?
>
Bible isnt so clear at what happens after death, but its clear that in the moment of resurection we will be alive, you however are praying to things/spirits you dont understand by praying to dead people
I do not understand what is the point you are trying to make.Even more i gave you Revelation 5:8 where it literaly depicts a prayer from humans to saints to there is nothing left to talk about.
>its a vision, vision contains alegories and needs knownig of scripteres and interpretation and not just picking the first thing that sutis your religion in order to clear the cognitive dissonance.
vision?n, this is logic.If A gave something to B from C, then that means that C was allowed to do it.
>the number of ELDERS (where did you find "saints") in Rev 5:8 is strickly 24 Elders/Old men. It clearly interprets as Angels (Seraphims?? ) at the thorne of God who have a role in prayer as moment in Daniel 10:12 clearly describes and who worship God at Rev 4:10.
The fact that they sit on thrones indicates that they reign with Christ. Nowhere in Scripture do angels ever rule or sit on thrones. The Church, however, is repeatedly said to rule and reign with Christ (Revelation 2:26-27, 5:10, 20:4; Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:30).
In addition, the Greek word translated here as “elders” is never used to refer to angels, only to men, particularly to men of a certain age who are mature and able to rule the Church. The word elder would be inappropriate to refer to angels, who do not age. Their mode of dress would also indicate these are men.
>Jacob lied to his dying father in order to recive blessings and God blessed him but was that Gods will - for him to lie?
What does this have to do with our discusion?Stay at subject.
>>57623096
Prahdistintizm
>>57639787
>Even more i gave you Revelation 5:8 where it literaly depicts a prayer from humans to saints to there is nothing left to talk about.
yes it is read again >>57639416
, and use your headmeat. Saints are Gods people who are abviously more than 24, 24 Eldersare are separete category.
in order to use Rev5:8 and rev 4;10 (which you clearly shouldnt) you shouldnt have mroe than 24 saints. do you have more or less than 24 saints?
>The fact that they sit on thrones indicates that they reign with Christ. Nowhere in Scripture do angels ever rule or sit on thrones. The Church, however, is repeatedly said to rule and reign with Christ (Revelation 2:26-27, 5:10, 20:4; Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:30).
>In addition, the Greek word translated here as “elders” is never used to refer to angels, only to men, particularly to men of a certain age who are mature and able to rule the Church. The word elder would be inappropriate to refer to angels, who do not age. Their mode of dress would also indicate these are men.
Dead in Christ will rule will Christ after the ressurection which is clearly more people than jsut 24. And Old Men bring prayers to GOD, they dont choose or not choose to bring them to God, they are servants, why pray to the 24 Elders (and btw you cant even count how many saints to which you pray you even have)?
QUIT WITH REV 5:8
QUIT WITH REV 5:8
QUIT WITH REV 5:8
>>57639787
>Even more i gave you Revelation 5:8 where it literaly depicts a prayer from humans to saints
*human to GOD.
Daniel in 10:12 prayed to God and angel brought an answer to his prayer and not to "Saints" which are pagan idols with crhitstian name. Rev 5:8 are prayers to God which Elders hold
>>57640262
>>57640404
>and use your headmeat. Saints are Gods people who are abviously more than 24, 24 Eldersare are separete category.
Christianity is monoteistic, Saints are not Gods but people, what you just said is a HUGE heresy.
>Dead in Christ will rule will Christ after the ressurection which is clearly more people than jsut 24.
I do not understand what you are saying here.Use proper english and be more coherent.
>And Old Men bring prayers to GOD, they dont choose or not choose to bring them to God, they are servants, why pray to the 24 Elders (and btw you cant even count how many saints to which you pray you even have)?
I dont understand what you are saying here, use proper english and coherent sentences.
>and btw you cant even count how many saints to which you pray you even have
irrelevant adhominem.
>*human to GOD.
human to Saint to God.Its written word by word.
>Daniel in 10:12 prayed to God and angel brought an answer to his prayer and not to "Saints" which are pagan idols with crhitstian name
Praying to angels is also allowed,so what is your point? irrelevant on this discussion.
who /gnostic/ here
who /gospeloftheholytwelve/
>>57640741
>Saints are not Gods but people, what you just said is a HUGE heresy.
you are a liar
>I do not understand what you are saying here.Use proper english and be more coherent
resurection, you shouldeve understand
>irrelevant adhominem.
so its only 24?
>human to Saint to God.Its written word by word.
homan to God, its the Scriptue , quote it, i certalny can
REv 5 8
>Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.
dan 10 12
Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them
dan 9 20 prays to God EXCLUSIVLY
EVERYBODY DO THE STRAWMEN
>>57641353
are you making the accusation of me being a liar based on what proofs?
There is only ONE God.This is a huge heresy against God.
>resurection, you shouldeve understand
i understand what ressurection is, but explain me your previous post in coherent english.
>so its only 24?
No and the rev 5:8 does not refer to all Saints.Come back when you know english.
>dan 10 12
>Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them
>dan 9 20 prays to God EXCLUSIVLY
>EVERYBODY DO THE STRAWMEN
You are trying to argue that rev 5.8 that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them!
So either way you lose.Simple logic.
>>57623096
>american
>actual christians
top tippery kek
>>57641954
>Sweden
>>57642084
Tell your wife to bring cash next time she comes to perform her monthly abortion here in Sweden, like all Polish women do.
>>57642137
SAVAGE
You're still a cuck though
>>57642137
REKT
>>57641725
you jsut repeat and repeaat yoruself and dont engage...
>There is only ONE God.This is a huge heresy against God.
what is a heresy against God you lying scumbag? Where have I said something like that?
>>57641725
>No and the rev 5:8 does not refer to all Saints.Come back when you know english.
rev 5:8 clearly doesnt reffer to "saints" at all
>You are trying to argue that rev 5.8 that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God.
yes
>Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them!
yes, so can Satan since he blocked the angel of God in Daniel
and angels can hear prayes that are adressed to God
back to book of Daniel but that wont change the idolworshiping you do or will it?
>>57642137
>proud of having legal abortion
Enjoy burning in hell :^)
>>57641725
>No and the rev 5:8 does not refer to all Saints.Come back when you know english.
then what scripture is left for you to spin in defense of idolworshiping?
>discussing about who are the true christians
Who controls the Vatican and the Holy See? Checkmate, heretics.
>>57642221
>you jsut repeat and repeaat yoruself and dont engage...
i cannot engage if you cant even write a proper sentence.
look here
>what is a heresy against God you lying scumbag? Where have I said something like that?
>>57640262
>Saints are Gods people who are abviously more than 24, 24 Eldersare are separete category.
from your sentence I understand that yu call Saints Gods and that they are a different category than "elders"(never heard of this "category)
You first need to learn english then read the Bible or read the Bible in croatian but speak in english.
>rev 5:8 clearly doesnt reffer to "saints" at all
literally kindergarten logic:Some A are not all A.
>yes, so can Satan since he blocked the angel of God in Daniel
Whether Satan can or not is irrelevant in our discussion regarding Saints.We can discuss this other time.
>and angels can hear prayes that are adressed to God
The discussion is about Saints, whether angels can or not we can discuss this other time.
>but that wont change the idolworshiping you do or will it?
Me or any other orthodox or catholic do not worship anyone except God like I have proved up.
>>57642499
this is a question most suited for you because the burden of proof is on you to prove your accusations.Untill now you have miserably failed.
>>57642550
who controls the vatican and the holy see is irrelevant as christianity is spiritual and follows the Holy traditions and teachings of Holy Fathers and cannot be under human dominion.
>>57632498
Protestant theology isn't even close to the Early Church.
Just look at this for example,
>>After all, in their exegesis the early Church theologians neither received the Bible as a 'Bible without notes' nor interpreted it in a vacuum. They received along with the Bible a tradition of interpreting it for a worshipping community and they proceeded to interpret it for a worshipping community. The study of the Bible as a scientific discipline to be carried on for its own sake was very far from their thought, and at all times has been, one suspects, a mere will-o'-the-wisp. This does not mean that the Fathers sacrificed everything for the sake of the edification of the faithful or for the consistent articulation of a doctrinal system. They sacrificed too much for these ends, but they were not unconscious of limits and controls on this process imposed by the Bible itself. Their purpose in exegesis was nevertheless purely practical, and we do not understand their exegesis until we understand this. They began the story of the Church's relations with the Bible, in which the Bible and the life of the Church were to interact for all the centuries to come, each correcting, deepening, fertilising the other. They inaugurated the Church's dance with the Bible, fancifully perhaps, but not irresponsibly, perhaps erratically, but at least gaily.-Cambridge History of the Bible, pg 453
>>57642787
And this,
>It is obvious from the NT that Christians initially understood Scripture to mean what only later was called the OT. When Paul repeated the tradition about Christ‘s death and resurrection, the ―Scriptures‖ by which the Christian preaching was demonstrated were the sacred books of Israel (1 Corinthians 15). Scripture in this sense demonstrated the truth of the Christian claim in a number of different ways: by prophecy, by type and foreshadowing, by testimony lists, by allegory, and by simple proof-texting. No one method prevailed for employing the authority of the OT. Moreover, it began to be clear that final authority rested in the Christian preaching and not in the sacred writings thought to demonstrate it.-Anchor Bible Dictionary, pg 7883
>>57642655
>from your sentence I understand that yu call Saints Gods
you are an absoluty idiot. good night
>>57643152
>But when the adversary of the race of the righteous, the envious, malicious, and wicked one, perceived the impressive nature of his martyrdom, and [considered] the blameless life he had led from the beginning, and how he was now crowned with the wreath of immortality, having beyond dispute received his reward, he did his utmost that not the least memorial of him should be taken away by us, although many desired to do this, and to become possessors of his holy flesh. For this end he suggested it to Nicetes, the father of Herod and brother of Alce, to go and entreat the governor not to give up his body to be buried, "lest," said he, "forsaking Him that was crucified, they begin to worship this one." This he said at the suggestion and urgent persuasion of the Jews, who also watched us, as we sought to take him out of the fire, being ignorant of this, that it is neither possible for us ever to forsake Christ, who suffered for the salvation of such as shall be saved throughout the whole world (the blameless one for sinners ), nor to worship any other.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0102.htm
Oops, so much for the early church being Protesturds
>>57643152
you dont know english nor the Bible.Good night.
>>57643189
>>57642893
>>57642787
make a concise point dont just copypaste
for the croat :)!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuCIN7BNOpg&index=3&list=WL
>>57643317
The point is simple, the Early Church is NOT Protestant at all as shown by the very works of scholars who examine them who are Protestants themselves.
Lane is a Reformed. The author of that segment in the Cambridge History of the Bible is an Evangelical Anglican and the Anchor Bible Dictionary is approaching the Bible and its surrounding contexts all from a secular perspective, not apologetical.
The final is from the Martyrdom of Polycarp which shows 2nd Century Christians venerating relics of the martyr Polycarp.
So we see that,
a)Early Christians venerate saints
b)They did not subscribe or believe in Sola Scriptura
>>57643472
>a)Early Christians venerate saints
how exacly?
>b)They did not subscribe or believe in Sola Scriptura
we can debate cannon, but scriptue over tradition is inheritly Christian, especially in OT and in the Gospels (Jesus strictly atacked pharises by OT scriptures)
>>57643472
>Early Christians venerate saints
also, how does it fit the OT context which salvation by faith fits perfeclty ("Abramah belived and it count into his reigthneouss")
>>57643570
Jesus' own teachings are by definition, Tradition. The whole NT is something that arise from it for fuck's sake. If any, it shows that playing Sola Scriptura or trying to even separate Scripture from Tradition itself to be a stupid move given their close intimacy.
Protestantism destroys this intimacy between the two which the Early Church upholds.
The Protestant canon of Scripture is also wrong and misguided. The whole canon thing wasn't even settled by the Jews when Jesus was alive. All they had was a core canon with fluid edges which will carry over to Christianity itself.
Protestants don't even treat bones of martyrs or saints as "Holy" or worth more than jewels which the Martyrdom of Polycarp explicitly mentions. In fact, it was even thought by the persecutors of the Christians that they worship Polycarp. Sounds familiar? That's because their view is the same as Protestants today!
>current year
>believing in a magical sky fairy
Ayy
>>57643699
Except of course, Abraham's faith is active and is of his own volition.
This denies Sola Fide given the fact that the "faith" itself is from God, not of man.
>>57643894
>>57643872
>Jesus' own teachings are by definition, Tradition. The whole NT is something that arise from it for fuck's sake
yes, so is Moses. both was turn into scripture to capture the zeitgeist i.e. ORIGINAL DOCTRINE. that is what its all about -original doctrine, unchanged trouhg the time.
>The Protestant canon of Scripture is also wrong and misguided.
compared to who? the only difference are a few books of the OT...
>Protestants don't even treat bones of martyrs or saints as "Holy" or worth more than jewels which the Martyrdom of Polycarp explicitly mentions. In fact, it was even thought by the persecutors of the Christians that they worship Polycarp. Sounds familiar? That's because their view is the same as Protestants today!
I have no idea who Polciarp was but it seems you are turning narrative into normative, there isnt a theological evaluation of what you have said, similat to the story of Jacob. Jacob lied to his dying father in order to recive blessings and God blessed him but was that Gods will - for him to lie?
>>57643920
salvation by faith is a consistent theme from Genesis to Apocalipse unlike Saint worshipping
>This denies Sola Fide given the fact that the "faith" itself is from God, not of man.
faith is a reaction from man to God, not entiery passive but not by works
>>57644324
Good, except the Jews believe that Moses gave them the so called Oral Torah as well.
Either way once it is accepted that stuff in the Bible or components of the Bible itself arise from Tradition and the Tradition it arise from didn't become irrelevant but became the context to read it, this implies that Tradition and Scripture must by definition be equal and that Tradition is required to even read the Bible in the first place.
This is also why Irenaeus and Tertullian lay stress on the Regula Fidei which informs the reader on the plot of Scriptures and the hypothesis needed to approach them. By this frame of thought, Scripture Alone isn't the highest authority, alongside being over Tradition.
Regarding your 'argument' against Polycarp, you are ignoring the fact that the writing explicitly emphasizes the value of Polycarp's remains to the point of them being Holy. Something Protestants don't do and would consider, idolatrous. Otherwise, the whole veneration of Saints thing shouldn't even be an issue to begin with.
According to Sola Fide, "Faith" is passive, not active. This means that it cannot even be a person reacting to God but God reacting to the person. This is why Calvinism is the only consistent sect in Protestantism since it gets shit right with predestination and shit.
>>57644710
>Either way once it is accepted that stuff in the Bible or components of the Bible itself arise from Tradition and the Tradition it arise from didn't become irrelevant but became the context to read it, this implies that Tradition and Scripture must by definition be equal and that Tradition is required to even read the Bible in the first place.
Yes, tradition and scriptute are connected but original Scripture i.e. zeigeist is above "change zeitgeist". Jews had Scripture and Oral Law + some other highly informal books. however, even by Jews Scripture was above all, everyone knew that, that is why JEsus rebuked them here
Mark 7: "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men."
+ the story about jesus disciples picking grain in Mark 2 23 again shows the conflict of Phariseir Oral Law which the placed above Moseses Law
you can argue for saints only by "oral law" approach, Scripture is very anti-Saint worship.
gotta sleep so Im using a cheeky hitnrun , that romanians dumbass drained me
you are all going to hell
>>57645146
Only the Sadducees adopted the approach that would be identified as Sola Scriptura today, not the other sects that existed during the NT period.
Of course, the fact is, what Jesus did and said, is Tradition which was simply written down. This means that there is no Sola Scriptura by definition as no one would be seeing Scripture Alone as the authority. In fact, they probably wouldn't even understand or comprehend the distinctions between them which is why Lane articulates the "Coincidence view" which is distinct from Sola Scriptura which he himself notes in the same essay that I had cited.
Scripture doesn't oppose the veneration of saints. Only your biased approach to it does.
By your logic, Revelations which explicitly contain the very idea of the intercession of saints and their invocation is in fact unbiblical.
And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off 18 and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning,
“What city was like the great city?”
19 And they threw dust on their heads, as they wept and mourned, crying out,
“Alas, alas, for the great city
where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth!
In one hour she has been laid waste.
20
Rejoice over her, O heaven,
O saints and apostles and prophets,
for God has given judgment for you against her!”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+18&version=RSV
And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+5
Guess the author of Revelation is espousing saint 'worship' since he's introducing ideas that matches with the whole idea behind their veneration to begin with
>>57645315
fuck off
Faith is described rather than defined in the Hebrew Bible. The description tends to be used in two
ways, one where the relationship of Israel to Yahweh is described and the other where the relationship of
certain key figures to Yahweh is described. Two models are clear, Abraham and David. One could
certainly add others (Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Ruth, Deborah, etc.), but in a sense Abraham and David are
paradigmatic for an understanding of faith. The common characteristics of the two are their unswerving
loyalty to Yahweh even in the face of what appear to be insurmountable obstacles, and second is the
purely gratuitous character of their chosenness.-(Anchor Bible Dictionary, pg 2821)
>Protestants BTFO into silence
Good thread, lads
>>57623096
No mames esos cabrones de tu foto se miran bien putos a la verga jajaja
>>57647308
>not watching the video in the OP which BTFOS catholicism
Wewlad
