I'm American, so obviously the idea of a monarchy in a modern Western culture is baffling to me. I understand they don't have much "real" political power, but they're still supported by tax dollars, officially the "head of state" and hold very real cultural sway due to their position.
Not a regular poster on /int/ and realize this is probably an overdone topic, but just wondering how anons under the British crown actually feel about their monarchy?
i feel pretty good about it. i also don't want a president harper/trudeau desu
>>57542895
It's not about their power, it's about what they represent bro
Also the Monarchy fucking rules m8, the French can suck my cock
>>57542895
I feel fine about it, like most Brits.
What I find baffling is why you're so shocked by the idea that some people are born into privilege and power. Because that happens all the time in the USA.
Also, I'm sure you realise that our tax pounds would be spent on the Head of State regardless of whether they're a monarch or elected or appointed.
>>57543029
Well the thing is is we generally don't like to think about it, as it contradicts the idea of the American Dream and as a result is kind of uncomfortable.
Do people feel obligated to stand when the US president enters the room?
Yeah they do, it's completely pointless yet people do it out of respect.
reminder that the queen more than pays for her salary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyYgnhhKFw&nohtml5=False
>>57542895
>modern Western culture
>>57543201
/thread
>>57542895
The real reason is because we all like corgis.
>>57543029
Why do people think it's important? If they don't have political power, what is their purpose?
> I'm sure you realise that our tax pounds would be spent on the Head of State regardless of whether they're a monarch or elected or appointed.
It would just be the prime minister, who already exists and gets your money. Spending it on the Queen and her family is just extra.
>>57543142
I wouldnt. Not for Obongo.
>>57542895
It is a symbol that we have not been conquered. We realize that a monarchy is not an effective system of governance but it's still a nice connection to our history and how we have always had our independence since ancient times.
>>57543323
No I meant Americlaps, they are the last people who should be making this augment after they spend their childhood pledging their alliance to the US flag (something only they and NK do)
>>57543142
We do it out of respect for the position (and note it is someone we've chosen), but respect doesn't imply someone is above you. A monarch is by definition above her people.
>>57543443
*argument
>>57543489
>a monarch is by definition above her people
You're thinking of absolute monarchy, the UK was a constitutional monarchy long before the USA even existed as a country.
In the Netherlands it's unironically a government secret how much power the King holds.
He's part of the government, appoints the ministers and talks with all ministers every monday and has to sign all laws.
But the contents of their conversations are a national secret. And it's illegal to talk about them.
Plus the government isn't allowed to disagree with each ítself in public.
And if the King does anything dumb it's the ministers responsibility. So they have no interest in disagreeing with him to the public either.
>>57543323
You'd try to cut off his hands. I wouldn't expect you to stand either.
>>57543313
>Why do people think it's important? If they don't have political power, what is their purpose?
To be the nation's figurehead, act as the country's top ambassadors (trained from birth for this role) and public relations duties. They do the time-consuming fluff so the Prime Minister can concentrate on the bread and butter daily governance of the country.
>It would just be the prime minister, who already exists and gets your money. Spending it on the Queen and her family is just extra.
No. We are not the USA. Like most democracies in the world we are a Parliamentary Democracy. That means the Head of State and Head of Government are DIFFERENT PEOPLE. It's very important they are separate because giving a national figurehead real power is concentrating too much power in one person. Parliamentary democracies which aren't monarchies don't just have a Prime Minister, they have a figurehead President who does exactly the same shit.
It is not "just extra", the Head of State in our country is an absolutely vital job. It allows the PM to focus on governance and it avoids concentrating too much power in one person.
>>57543489
And what if you didnt vote for this person? I can understand the point behind the pledge, but i wouldnt do it because America now is just a mere shell of what it once was...
>>57543666
It's not a secret it's a formality m8, your Monarch would lose their power if they ever tried to use it.
>>57543666
But people always say the King as a ceremonial role. But after studying constitutional law I'm not entirely certain.
Not to mention our King is fist deep in our businesses, as he's said to be the biggest share holder of many of our businesses like Shell and Unilever.
>>57543585
Even in a constitutional monarchy it is the case. Their power isn't absolute, but they're still a step above the people they "rule" over.
>>57542895
the first thing you need to do is realise that people are stupid and therefore democracy is stupid
Why are Americans so sensitive about people disrespecting the president or his office?
protip: It's because they don't have a monarchy.
>>57543700
wow
>>57543771
>but they're still a step above the people they "rule" over.
Nope. You still don't get it.
"The Queen reigns, but she does not rule"
- Bagehot
>>57543793
Nobody here cares if someone calls Obongo a muslim nigger faggot.
>>57543705
>To be the nation's figurehead, act as the country's top ambassadors (trained from birth for this role) and public relations duties
It's not a job I envy. Looks tedious as shit, and it's not like they seem very free. Okay they're looked after and wear and eat the finest stuff, but I'm not sure I could put up with all the bullshit that comes with it, especially for 80+ years like the current Queen.
>>57543771
In what sense? They are powerless, sure they are upper class and rich but would you claim Donald Trump to rule over you?
>>57543882
I would hate it. I'm sure they endure the job by thinking about it as their duty rather than a privilege because it sure as hell isn't a privilege
>>57543877
Yet it is Illegal to make a threat against his life.
Its part of their culture and history, it makes them proud to be British. What cant you understand?
>>57543882
>>57543962
low energy posters.
>>57543877
Not to his face.
Who would the Royal Guards protect if they went? Someone needs to think of these things. Plus adding the word Royal to the name of many institutions makes things classy and proper.
>>57543882
You should read her biography m8, she was born 6th in line to the throne and wept at the news that she should be the Queen.
>>57543705
You don't need an unelected group of figureheads to be your ambassadors. In fact, it is ridiculous to give that kind of power to a group based on their bloodline. We have ambassadors in the United States. They are determined democratically.
>>57543323
See >>57543489
You respect the position, not the person occupying it. Same reason you salute. You're saluting the rank, not the (almost always) dick officer.
But you wouldn't know about the tradition of saluting with all the fucking hands you cut off
The Monarchy is synonymous with the nation itself.
The Queen, legally, IS Canada. She is literally Canada in human form. That is why when new immigrants become citizens they have to swear allegiance to the Queen, not "Canada".
>>57543719
It's about respect for the democratic process and the position, whether you voted for them or not.
>>57543290
>>57543774
>>57542895
Like many things in Britain the monarchy is wound up in so many layers of tradition and stubborn-ness the whole thing would collapse if it were to be removed, much like a weird beam in an old house that doesn't seem to do much
The monarchy actually pays money to the treasury for the privilege believe it or not, iirc it's about £250 million a year.
The reason for this is old and stupid and to understand it requires a bit of explanation. Now the crown 'owns' all of the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc. in the way that it governs it, but here i'm talking about actually owning stuff - that is direct control of farmland, estates, properties that are rented etc.
Now the crown owns a shitload of this stuff. Like a veritable fucktonne. Even if the Queen wasn't the Queen she'd be CEO of a ridiculously wealthy company - actually far more wealthy than she is now.
That's because of a ridiculous deal her deadbeat great great great (or something) grandfather made. iirc it was a George, I can't be fucked to look it up.
ANYWAY. His finances were so fucked up with ridiculous parties and gambling debt he actually went to parliament and was like:
>KG: 'Lads, i'm in a bit of a bind. Gorgeous George is running later today and the bookies have given him great odds, lend us a few bob so's i can have a flutter'
>Parliament: 'Mate we keep telling you, they never come good, You're not getting a penny of public money. You're already in massive debt, you're shit at managing your land and it's all gone to fuck.'
>KG: 'Alright Lads, how about we do a deal. You pay off my debt, make sure all the palaces are looked after and give me a regular bit of cash every year and i'll let you manage all my estates to pay for it and keep the change, in fact fuck it. I ROYAL DECREE IT. Sorted. I'll expect my first Cheque next month. Cheerio. '
So turns out this was an awful deal for the monarchy because they're basically now giving the taxpayer a cool quarter billion a year.
>>57543774
All Western European countries are democracies
Monarchs are only ceromonial
>>57543741
Our King advises the ministers all policies. And if the King requests you to specifically do something you usually listen. Even some former Ministers have admitted that.
>>57542895
I love her with all my heart. She is chosen by God to guide her people.
Besides, at the end of the day inheriting leadership is really no better than winning the national popularity contest every four years.
It has better aesthetics and the crown is a living connection to our great history. It is a common bond between the commonwealth realms.
It's also literally the only reason Canada isn't a part of the states.
>>57544265
Why the hell shouldn't the Head of State be unelected? They are not governing the country you moron, they're not ruling over anything, they're representing the country.
The British people prefer their country be represented by this family rather than the winner of a popularity contest. What is wrong with that? Nothing. Go away and read about Parliamentary Supremacy. The people with power in this country are those who are elected to the House of Commons
>>57544265
>b-but they aren't elected and are based on accident of birth!
This isn't even objectively bad. With Monarchy you either get good kings or bad kings. We have very good Royal family, so why complain? The Monarchy has to be good, otherwise they would lose the favor of the public and get littearlly destroyed
Vivat Regina Elizabetha lads
It's a complete joke.
I don't have strong views on monarchy in general, it might be a superior form of governance, but keeping it in it's ceremonial form for 'muh tradition' makes it completely useless.
>>57544584
It should be "useless"
They're not supposed to govern
>>57543863
>>57543907
Is your queen not immune to prosecution? Are there not a bunch of laws on the books created especially for her as monarch? These kinds of things create a layer of separation between her and the "common people."
>>57544286
911 pls
>>57544265
We have the house of lords, they are non-political technocrats appointed by the Queen and Prime-minister who can review laws, yet not stop them.
>>57544625
>they're not supposed to govern
Get back to r*ddit
>>57544572
>tfw we'll get Charles and then William's ugly mugs on our money instead of Catherine
>>57543741
Our former Queen sometimes had favorites who got picked as ministers before others.
She also once rejected the election of some ministers because they didn't consult her before trying to appoint them.
>>57544584
Your Monarchy may be totally ceremonial, but ours isn't.
The Queen still wields considerable power, she just doesn't use it because at this point it's tradition for the monarch not to use their power
>>57544628
Yeah, but we're not 12th century peasants. If they abuse that shit they'll get thrown out on their arse fast as anything.
There was a minor shitstorm the other year about Prince Charles having the gall to talk write to ministers about the health service.
Any bored old man can do the same, but because he's a prince it blew up and made people have a minor chimp out
>>57544672
>not liking cheeky charles and and based william
>>57544628
No idea, countries have all sort of bizarre laws on the books but public officials have or never will be immune to them.
If they tried to be then there would be public outrage.
>>57544672
>Dat hat tho
>>57544759
I'm indifferent to Charles - I like that he cares about trees and shit. William seems alright.
>>57544706
That tradition is binding
UK doesn't have written constitution. They have Acts of Parliament, court judgments and conventions in its place
>>57544347
>£250 million a year.
Wow, it's fucking nothing.
>>57544706
>The Queen still wields considerable power
Not really no, it's almost entirely delegated through her ministers, for practical purposes it's a ceremonial monarchy.
>>57544625
No, they are useless.
It's a complete waste of money to keep monarchs around as some artifact from the past , when their role in politics is non-existent.
>>57544704
The thing is. When ministers, mayors and judges have to be appointed they have to consult the King. And it's customary to provide multiple options that can be chosen from.
So if the King dislikes you you'll have a hard time.
>>57544842
It's still not costing us anything, how much does Airforce One cost the US taxpayer?
>>57544428
>inheriting leadership is really no better than winning the national popularity contest every four years.
It is because it's democratic, as nearly everything should be in a liberal society. I should have a say in whether or not the person representing me gets to represent me.
>>57544628
>Is your queen not immune to prosecution?
Technically yes, but the reality would be a bit different
If the reigning Monarch ever did something highly illegal there would be a massive shitstorm and they would be ultimately forced to abdicate, just as King John was forced to sign the Magna Carta
>>57544882
Literal pleb, even a ceremonial monarchy is better than none at all.
>getting cucked by republican memes
>>57544628
If the Queen started doing illegal things then Parliament would abolish the Monarchy. The Monarchy only survives if it's popular with the public.
You idiots can bleat around on the internet about how the Queen's job isn't like most people - no shit Sherlock! - but the "common people" are fine with that. The irony is that most of your bleating is about democracy. You only like popular opinion when it agrees with what you want, which is pathetic.
>>57544882
>It's a complete waste of money to keep monarchs around
You're a fucking idiot too. Go ahead and get rid of your monarchy, then enjoy paying taxes to fund your figurehead President.
>>57544265
And look at how the US is perceived overseas..
>>57544882
>All cultural anachronisms are pointless and must be removed
>>57544930
>a liberal society
I don't want a liberal society (though Canada's is despite its more traditional form of government)
>I should have a say in whether or not the person representing me gets to represent me.
I disagree
>>57544930
>we should seize their assets and claim them for the state
Alright calm down Stalin.
>daily reminder the last civil war was over the Monarchy
>daily reminder the next civil war will be over the Monarchy
>>57544930
And yet Northern Europen monarchies are more democratic and equal than the US
Pic is democracy index for 2014
>>57544819
At least William does work which is quite useful - as in flying search and rescue helicopters and saving people from drowning.
>>57545076
This time the good guys win
>>57544930
>because it's democratic
Democracy is double edged sword. There are some things I don't want the common dumbass having any say in.
At this point, I would rather have a good, all powerful King than the pandering, pansy ass politicians we have leading us right now
>>57545041
What a stupid post. Why should everything be democratic in a liberal society? Too much democracy gives you the tyranny of the majority, I certainly would not want policy-making to be democratic, for instance.
Seeing democracy as purely a good thing and striving to be as democratic as possible is a recipe for disaster
>>57545126
Prince Charles was in the military as well. It's pretty traditional for members of the royal family to serve in the military, even the Queen was a mechanic or something during WW2
>there are people on /int/ RIGHT NOW that live in a republic
YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP
>>57544962
>>57544931
>>57544915
>>57544765
She legally CAN'T be prosecuted. You can go on about how it'd be in practice, but the fact is she can't. That puts her on a different level than any other person.
And that was just one example. I'm sure there are many special protections she has for no good reason.
>>57545187
I mean, it's a pretty good idea if you can streamline a referendum process and have a well educated voter base.
Problem is with a representitive democracy you tend to have special interest groups quickly mob elected officials with information to get them to do their bidding.
This has the potential to end in incredible amounts of corruption if not handled well.
>>57542895
>I'm American, so obviously the idea of a monarchy in a modern Western culture is baffling to me
But for years you've had a cult of personality with king nigger obama and now trump? He may not be a monarch but you treat him like one. At least European monarchies have beautiful tradition.
>>57544977
Everyone is buying our blue jeans and listening to our pop music.
>>57545187
Just a tip mate: starting every paragraph with a personal insult makes you seem like a bit of a twat.
>>57545231
>You can go on about how it'd be in practice
m8 this entire fucking system is littered with "How things are on paper" vs "How things are in practice".
Our shit isn't black and white
>>57545231
Well, she can travel without a passport and drive without a driving license.
That makes her pretty special.
Anyway, you think if she went all 12th century and started murdering fools for having the wrong hairdo she wouldn't 'have a sudden heart attack'?
>>57545231
You don't seem to understand, most countries have laws on the books that simply aren't enforced.
The royals have powers that they'd lose if they tried to use them and they are smart enough to know that.
>>57545231
If you believe 100% in the system, you'll know that if she fucks up she'll face the judgement of God.
That's if she isn't overthrown and replaced, christ its like you don't read history.
>>57542895
>but they're still supported by tax dollars
This video should explain the money situation.https://youtu.be/bhyYgnhhKFw
>>57545126
While Harry was an Apache pilot and killed people in Afghanistan. Yin and yang.
It's a party of the countries past, although I don't agree that they should receive tax money.
>>57545231
>for no good reason
She is the fount of justice and laws are written in her name. She's in a special position, I'd call that a pretty good reason.
Legal cases involving the state are always R.(Regina, Latin for the Queen) vs John Smith (for example) since the Queen is the state.
The USA just replaces this with the vague idea of "the people" (whatever the fuck that means)
>>57545284
I don't give a toss. It's a stupid post, I'll call a spade a spade.
It's even more disappointing to see this drivel from an American because they're taught in school about the tyranny of majority and the logic behind representative democracy, i.e. the limits on democracy in American society are there for a fucking good reason.
>>57543021
So..king Harry, lads? What about it?
Right?!
>>57545279
The UK does a good job at exporting its popular culture, in many cases rivalling America.
>>57545420
I weep for my lost monarchist catholic brothers.
>>57545148
>>57545187
I said nearly everything. Certain fundamental rights (free speech, life, my body) shouldn't be up to debate and that's something the creators of the US constitution realized 230 years ago. You also have to have mechanisms in place to protect the existence of democracy. We (try) to have these things.
Generally, anything we all have a direct concern in should be determined democratically.
>tfw the queen will die in your life time
You plebs realise that it is customary to pay respect to for the arrival of your head of state right?
>>57545522
>Certain fundamental rights (free speech, life, my body) shouldn't be up to debate and that's something the creators of the US constitution realized 230 years ago.
No they didn't you liar. The creators of your constitution were SLAVE OWNERS and you're saying they thought these rights were fundamental and beyond debate? How brainwashed are you?
>>57545522
>anything we all have a direct concern in should be determined democratically.
That is completely arbitrary and you're just taking it for granted that it's true
>>57545522
We do.
The right of rulership comes from God and the will of the people.
>>57545581
Yes.
>>57545404
Laws are written in her name because of tradition and therefore she should have special laws written in her favor?
>LITERALLY defending having a head of state who doesn't even live on your continent.
>>57545672
Just leaf it mate.
>>57545497
>in many cases rivalling America.
Such as? Nobody even cares about your entertainers until they make a name for themselves here.
>>57545616
Not you, you're spoiling my point you muppet.
It's customary for every other head of state
>>57545516
And I don't know why.
Republic and monarchy are absolute disgrace for the life itself.
I call for absolutism, some dictatorship regime.
Hang the traitors.
Gas the kikes.
Make more nukes.
Fuck USA
Fuck Europe
Successfully colonize Africa this time and take all the ressources.
Go to mars. Call it new France.
Win in the big competition against the dirty english crown, finally.
That's my dream.
Maybe you'll think about it in ~30 years.
>>57545672
No, because justice is carried out in her name. The courts all operate under her name. Passports are issued in her name.
Your legal system is based on tradition as well, you just replace "The Queen" with "the people"
>>57545420
A people's man, travelling from province to province to drum support
He lift France out of the darkness
He lift the French out of famine and showed them massive utilization of the country's agricultural potential
He lift France out of infrastructural obscurity
He lift the French spirit through the elaborate education system
He gave liberties to the French press and the public opinion
His only fault was that he was a humble man, preferring personal and public peace over lofty and aggressive ideas (plus, the young prince died unexpectedly)
P.S if you disagree with me, you're an Algerian
>>57545714
British television, musical artists and literature.
>>57545743
/pol/ is leaking
>>57545714
James Bond. Even if it's a shit Bond film, it still makes bank.
>>57543443
we arent pledging allegiance the the physical flag, we're pledging allegiance to the Republic, for which the flag represents
>>57545714
>MANCHESTER UNITED DAVID BECKHAM SPICE GIRLS HARRY POTTER DOCTOR WHO
All stuff that gets shouted at you in third world shitholes when they see you're white and pasty.
>>57545603
The bill of rights was created specifically concerning those fundamental issues.
Yes some were slave owners. It reflects how only property-owning men were seen as real citizens. But even at that time the slave issue was controversial among intellectuals.
>>57545919
Right, and what do you think the Queen represents?
>>57545714
Greatest soft power in the world m8
And before you start memeing, the soft power concept was thought up by yanks
>>57545931
>>57545777
Disgusting trips.
You're worshipping the fucker who lost Alsace-Lorraine the first time.
The fucker who bring Algerians into France finally.
The fucker who is a bastard (false dynasty, litteraly a son of a bitch)
And overall, a fucking kike and english sucker.
May this bastard rot in hell.
______________________
Sa grandeur éblouit l'histoire.
Quinze ans, il fut
Le dieu que traînait la victoire
Sur un affût ;
L'Europe sous sa loi guerrière
Se débattit. -
Toi, son singe, marche derrière,
Petit, petit.
Napoléon dans la bataille,
Grave et serein,
Guidait à travers la mitraille
L'aigle d'airain.
Il entra sur le pont d'Arcole,
Il en sortit. -
Voici de l'or, viens, pille et vole,
Petit, petit.
Berlin, Vienne, étaient ses maîtresses ;
Il les forçait,
Leste, et prenant les forteresses
Par le corset ;
Il triompha de cent bastilles
Qu'il investit. -
Voici pour toi, voici des filles,
Petit, petit.
Il passait les monts et les plaines,
Tenant en main
La palme, la foudre et les rênes
Du genre humain ;
Il était ivre de sa gloire
Qui retentit. -
Voici du sang, accours, viens boire,
Petit, petit.
Quand il tomba, lâchant le monde,
L'immense mer
Ouvrit à sa chute profonde
Le gouffre amer ;
Il y plongea, sinistre archange,
Et s'engloutit. -
Toi, tu te noieras dans la fange,
Petit, petit.
Victor Hugo, Les Châtiments
>>57545997
Americans love Brits.
>>57545919
Do you really not understand how chilling this is to Europeans, those who endured fascism?
>>57545958
First you say the creators of your constitution thought these issues of freedom "shouldn't be up to debate" 230 years ago
Now you're saying "the slave issue was controversial"
Can you put 2 and 2 together and realise you destroyed your own assertion?
>>57545762
>No, because justice is carried out in her name.
So? Again, it's completely about tradition. It has no real meaning or value. It's a really silly reason to say that someone should be given special treatment under the law.
>Your legal system is based on tradition as well, you just replace "The Queen" with "the people"
No it's not. And I'm not even arguing the British, Canadian, Australian, etc. legal systems are based on tradition. But having laws that give your powerless monarch special treatment certainly are.
Honestly it's weird as fuck to me how Americans treat their flag so there's a slight cultural equivalence there
Honestly having kids pledge allegiance to the flag (and just in general desu) is messed up (that's assuming that actually happens and isn't just a lazy movie cliche to compare the US to North Korea or whatever country they're saying indoctrinates their kids)
>>57545997
Honestly didn't know Christian Bale was British.
>>57543984
Its illegal to make threats against anyones life
>>57546036
Her accent really is awful though, i'm avoiding the game just because of it.
It's like if you took the most annoying fake mary poppins cockney, then got someone who'd never even heard a human being speak to say it then pitched it up two octaves
>>57546146
Most good actors are
>>57546146
Brits are just that good at acting. I bet you thought Vivien Leigh was a true southern Belle and that Cary Grant wasn't a top English bloke.
>>57546079
>powerless monarch special treatment
Such as..?
I'm not gonna lie we have had hereditary peers in the house of Lords that have caused a lot of controversy, but they don't exist anymore.
>>57546190
It's quite clearly an American putting on a cockney voice, as you say similar to Dick van Dyke. I don't know why as there are plenty of good voice actors in the UK.
>>57546079
>So? Again, it's completely about tradition. It has no real meaning or value.
Yes it does, these conventions shaped the modern British (and by extension Canadian, Australian, etc.) legal systems. This is why we have an independent judiciary.
Traditions do matter. Convention is a large part of how the Canadian and British governments operate, and it's worked very well for us so far.
>>57546146
>yfw both Bane and Batman are secret Brits.
>>57546236
>but they don't exist anymore
Yes they do (as they should, fuck lefties and anyone else who wants to take away someone's rightful inheritance)
Considering how well the british system has worked for the last 800 years there's not much point in changing it anymore than it naturally changes to accommodate the modern world.
Better than doing what france did.
>>57543443
We didn't recite the pledge here.
It's probably only a slim minority of those who do, mostly in rural areas I would imagine.
>>57546069
You're putting 2 and blue together and not seeing you're just comparing two different concepts.
The framers realized the issue of the tyranny of the majority and so they put in the bill of rights to ensure that certain fundamental freedoms were not lost because of majority rule.
However, who these freedoms extended to is a separate issue. They basically didn't extend to people who didn't own property. Officially, they were not seen as relevant. And at that time it would have been impossible to get the constitution ratified if you went full-liberal and said that every human had all the same rights.
Unofficially, the idea of deciding who and who not to extend rights to being based on skin color was controversial.
>>57544043
I'll leave you up to the task of getting close to his face
>>57546338
I'm curious how you think a persons heritage makes them eligible to be a technocrat.
>>57545919
>We aren't pledging allegiance to the physcial flag, we're pledging allegiance to the great benevolent leader, for which the flag represents
>>57546444
>technocrat
It really doesn't matter how eligible they are, denying someone their inheritance is commie-tier.
I wish Hollywood would stop making movies about the American president being under attack.
>>57546121
> treat their flag so there's a slight cultural equivalence there
There isn't.
It's really more about respecting the country and what it stands for, which is what the flag represents. It's just a symbol. It's not a person with (even unofficial) power or who we spend taxpayer dollars supporting.
>>57546363
F-fuck you mongrel
>>57546405
So the bill of rights only applied to an exclusive subset of people, right? I know. I know that because the American bill of rights was inspired by the English Bill of Rights which did pretty much the same thing before it happened in the USA, and evolved over time to become more and more liberal until those rights applied to everyone.
So why the hell are you bringing up the bill of rights like it couldn't happen in a monarchy? It happened in a monarchy first.
>>57546223
>>57546215
Nothing to do with acting. There's just something about your accent that makes it easier to go English --> American than American --> English. Just like how it's easier for women to sound like men than vice versa.
>>57546546
It leads to people being like the guy posted this >>57545522
Creating a cult of obedience around the flag and mythologising the founding fathers in a ridiculous manner so that Americans always seems to treat them like superheroes when casually referenced is not a good idea
>>57546546
Then you're doomed to repeat fascism, but sure continue forcing children recite their alliance to great leader. What would possibly go wrong?
>>57546641
>the number one movie is about betraying your race
I wonder who's behind this.
Where were you 5 years ago?
>>57546685
We didn't recite the pledge here though.
>>57546620
The English bill of rights were there to limit the power of the monarch not of the people.
>>57546574
Well to be fair it is their film industry, they can make what they want. I object to Hollywood corrupted pure English roses and turning them fat.
>>57546651
It's probably because you have to do a shitload of research to do a convincing British accent due to regional variations, but relatively simple for US accents, not least because there's a greater availability of resources for the regional variations that the US does have.
>>57546770
Does mean mean many of your peers didn't, either consensually or due to peer pressure.
>>57546685
Children aren't forced to recite the pledge. It's entirely optional and for most of my school career I didn't bother doing so.
>>57546741
Soon.
>>57544991
Fucking this. Bunch of communist wankers claiming they're democratic ITT.
God Save Her Majesty and long May She Reign.
>>57546887
And look what happened to you. You're on 4chan now. Cast away to live among dirty foreigners.
>>57546546
This is like the epitome of the "Ignorant American" stereotype that the world see's. Unable to take the lessons others painfully taught, unable to look past your own traditions and wonder why they appear so alien to others, why they may cause discomfort.
If you tried to look at a view of the world where you're not perpetually imaging the U.S as player 1 then you'll understand why the British Monarchy is so widely supported, or why Italians and Germans see the swearing of an allegiance to the state is 1984-esque.
>>57546887
Yet it is played over the intercom and forced on you at a young malleable age m8.
>>57546772
>The English bill of rights were there to limit the power of the monarch not of the people.
Wrong. It limited the power of the Monarch AND enshrined rights of the people
>>57546887
>>57546770
Well something happens to a lot of American kids that means that they come on 4chan and post about how fantastic the US and it's government and fouders are in a very naive and arrogant manner
>>57546956
>why they appear so alien to others
Don't care, significantly more tourists visit the US each year vs the UK
>>57546913
It looks nice indeed, but I prefer the current one.
>he doesn't salute the flag
>>57546964
>played over the intercom
Never was in my school.
>>57546663
We tear down our heroes just as much as we mythologize them. Most Americans here are probably old enough to have gone to school at a time in which Christopher Columbus was taught to have been this cool dude who discovered America. Nowadays he's this racist colonizer to be hated and I'm sure kids in elementary school learn about him in a completely different way.
In America we have and value this idea of questioning authority, especially at the government level. Don't try and turn your official near-worship of a person because of their bloodline back on us.
>>57547004
We didn't receit the pledge here, at all. There wasn't a spot for it in the announcements over the intercom in the morning. It's not as if it were a shitty area either, just a regular high school in an affluent neighborhood.
But, a sense of pride comes with being a centre of innovation and holding the cultural hegemony. We know the world uses our consumer products/software/technology and watches our Hollywood films.
>>57547024
Tourism won't save you from ignorance.
>>57547103
I mean.. he did massively mistreat the indigenous people, and while it is counterproductive to approach history with our morals, by modern standards he was a monster.
>>57546978
...with respect to the power of the monarch. It didn't have anything to do with limiting the power of the majority like the bill of rights did. Of course the bill of rights was about limiting the central government too, but this is nearly equivalent to limiting the majority, because our government was created from the ground up to represent the will of the people.
>>57547061
They just played it softly so you couldn't conscientiously hear it. But it was there all the time. In the back of your head. Piercing your brain ever deeper. A nagging feeling that you just couldn't shake. In the back of your head you've always known and felt someone was talking to you; giving subconscience instructions to you; indoctrinating you. But you just couldn't put your finger on the details.
>>57547103
You're looking at things from your own, clearly very limited, viewpoint and misunderstanding what happens
You're thinking that the reverence to the president and the founding fathers that is pushed into Americans from a young age is equivalent to our support of the monarchy and it isn't at all, the queen is not 'worshipped' as you put it and I feel sorry for you if that's how you see it as that can only be a product of your country's aggressive self-aggrandising
>>57545372
He looks like he's about to grab the "do not grab" sign. The absolute madman!
>>57547529
> the reverence to the president and the founding fathers that is pushed into Americans from a young age
How do you know this? If you base your insight entirely on interactions you have, you've reached an entirely new level of guilelessness.
All discussion here is really garbage, not based in reality, and shouldn't be used to construct opinions t͏͏b͏͏h f͏͏a͏͏m
>>57547103
>your official near-worship of a person
Seriously?
>In America we have and value this idea of questioning authority, especially at the government level.
Interesting that you think this is unique to America, or that the monarch is an authority on anything.
Also I was amazed when I learnt how hard it is to remove a sitting President from power. It's incredible how difficult you make it to challenge authority in your country.
>>57547617
you have here **
>>57547598
He is a madman. Women love it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4g_gS4Q68o
>>57547617
The founding fathers, who are in heaven. Yellow be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done. On earth as it is in heaven. Amen.
Does that remind you of something?
The difference between the flag and the queen is the flag is there to represent the country and its principles, not the government itself. So you can compare the way people think of the flag or the pledge of allegiance to the actions of oppressive governments in the 20th century, but the fact of the matter is Americans are more distrustful of their government than any other first-world country. So clearly most Americans have been able to separate the flag from the government.
Don't get me wrong, the pledge of allegiance is ridiculous, a form of indoctrination, and has no place in schools, but it's not nearly the same thing as saying "this individual represents us and we're going to treat them and their family like gods."
>>57547024
Actually the UK gets more than twice the amount of tourists per capita than the US does each year.
>>57547677
>The difference between the flag and the queen is the flag is there to represent the country and its principles, not the government itself.
What the hell? The Queen represents the country not the government.
She is the Head of STATE. The Head of GOVERNMENT is the Prime Minister.
>>57547677
You are massively overblowing the mentality of people towards the monarchy.
Do you think we all have a portrait of her in our living room and turn it to the wall when we jack it to chinese cartoons?
>>57547284
I agree. But I'm just making the point that everyone is fair game. That includes the founding fathers. Americans will be the first to point out that they owned slaves and were people just like the rest of us or our current politicians.
Can't believe people still fall for the clueless patriotic american bait IN 2016!!
I MEAN COME ON???
>>57542895
why do people worship that old ugly woman
>does literally nothing except drinking tea
>WAA QUEEN
fuck yhou
>>57547852
At least she isn't a pedophile desu. I mean, if Mohammed was alive today he'd be posting on 4chan.
>>57547852
You love tea though.
>>57547838
>Americans will be the first to point out that they owned slaves and were people just like the rest of us or our current politicians.
This. There's a MASSIVE sentiment of absolute hate towards the founding fathers in 2016.
>>57544183
Yeah if the monarchy was abolished, we wouldn't have to classy sounding RAF or RN, but instead UKAF.. sounds shit.
>>57547888
>implying i care about muh hammad
>>57547890
y-yes.
>>57548001
Presumably if the monarchy were abolished, the United 'Kingdom' would be renamed something more appropriate.
>>57547852
Why do you live in an Islamic authoritarian state, completely opposed to what Atatürk stood for?
>>57548085
Well last time we were a Republic it was called the Commonwealth
>>57548085
It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It might just be Great Britain and Northern Ireland if there was no monarchy. Great Britain for short, which is often used by people around the world anyway.
>>57547755
I don't think so. I'm using "gods" more so in the Ancient Greek way. I might talk shit about Zeus or Athena, but the next day I'm still at their temple praying to them, and within our culture they're understood as representing various qualities.
So yea, I'm sure not all of you think the Queen is this amazing person, but you still support her and her family and get upset when called out on it, and have numerous cultural products based on the qualities she supposedly represents.
America does the same shit to a certain degree with celebrity worship culture here, so I'm not saying we don't have the same kind of tendencies. But at least it's not official. We're not giving our tax dollars to support whatever Kim Kardashian is doing. And there is a lot more reluctance. It's considered a guilty pleasure to engage in it. People aren't proud about it.
>America will never have a royal family to bind them together with nations across the planet
Washington should have been king.
>>57548097
what do you want me to do m8? im not a politician. the only thing i can do is to leave this shithole before getting bombed by isis or k*rts
>>57548140
How is it the same shit as celebrity culture? That makes no sense
>>57548162
You are fluent in English, you must be educated in some way.
>>57548162
Funny thing is these people have the gall to wonder out loud why their countries are shit.
>>57547639
It's not uniquely American, but it is a part of being American. Our country is built upon telling the British empire to fuck off. This is reflected a lot in our domestic policy and the differences between us and Europe, where for the most part your monarchies just slowly lost power as values modernized. We distrust our government more than you do and we enjoy fundamental freedoms (privacy, property, speech, due process) on a higher level as a result.
>>57548140
What you're saying makes no sense in relation to reality and you sound like you're struggling hard to get across what you think
That's most likely because what you think is based on assumptions that are wrong
>>57548212
It's not exactly the same but there is some overlap. In both cases people are given elevated status in society for often no good reason.
>>57548359
Not that guy but your country is built on oligarchs not wanting to pay taxes m8.
>>57548359
>>57548490
Also no you didn't rebel against King George, in fact he had nothing to do with it it, Britain had been a constitutional monarchy for decades.
>>57548429
Which assumption? That the royal family are treated like gods in your society?
Why does having some relation to a past monarch make someone deserving of special treatment?
>>57548555
The point is we told the British Empire (whoever you want to interpret as running it) to fuck off because they were oppressing us and we won. This is the story every American schoolchild learns and it has in part fueled a (valid) distrust of government.
>>57548696
Did they teach you about the French revolution? Or that it happened because the Monarchs were bankrupt from fighting and funding your revolution?
Or that your entire country is the result of a mere proxy war between the British and the French?
>>57548696
>because they were oppressing us
>americans actually believe their national myth
>>57542895
I never understood that it is baffling. You are supporting a president with tax money, too. I can't even imagine how much the white house and surrounding costs. I mean our own president lives in a castle, too.
>>57549028
> Please pay some taxes to fund your protection, development and upkeep. We can resolve the issue of colonial representation in parliament later.
> FUCK THE REDCOATS. FUCK BRITAIN. HELP US FRANCE WE'RE BEING OPPRESSED!!!!
>>57548696
There's no interpretation. Britain was run by its parliament. In fact, all of the laws which were seen as oppressive by the American colonists were in fact drafted and passed by Parliament.
>>57549113
a) We elect the president
b) Obviously there are expenses associated with the president carrying out his duties.
c) The president has duties
d) The British monarchy has none.
>>57545743
Talk about a Napoleon Complex
>>57546731
back to /pol/
>>57546574
Watch it stop overnight once they elect a FUCKING WHITE MALE again
>>57546575
First off, the queen nets the UK government a profit, and secondly, she's exactly the symbol that represents the country and what it stands for
