So, I heard that Finland and Sweden have history, and that it wasn't pretty. Can any of you fill me in on the details? Sweden used to bully Finland, right?
>>57058639
Sweden civilized them and Russia gave them the independence.
>>57058679
What do you mean 'civilized' them? What were they before Sweden?
>>57058705
Mongols :3
>>57058724
Nah, man. Put the memes aside for a moment.
>>57058705
Savages, lived in the lakes
>>57058705
>What were they before Sweden?
Bunch of scattered tribes. Civilizing meaning we built the first cities and established trade routes, gave them metallurgy, boat building techniques, agriculture - basically taught them everything we knew.
>>57058742
Any finns to confirm this?
>>57058767
Ironically it was the Ruskies who were more kind to us.
>>57058784
Ironically? Why? There's some feud between you and the svens, huh?
>>57058784
Oh those guys who tried to genocide you and took 30% of your clay?
>>57058784
Ivan please, in the 18th and 19th century we were nicer, can't compare the middle ages
>>57058806
>>57058816
I've heard your side of the story. Only the finns are allowed to post from now on.
>>57058801
Not really, Finland doesn't have any international relations and spend way too much time obsessing over us.
Imagine if all our provinces were this bitchy, "waaah the gutes crossed our border in 825!"
>>57058639
I have also heard this? Is this true?
>>57058816
>Can't compare middle ages
Why not? If we are going back to the past, might just go all the way.
>>57058639
>Finns live in Finland
>Swedes come and culturally enrich them
>Add Östland to the kingdom
>Use Finland as buffer against Russia
>The high class is mostly talking Swedish, hence the still living term "bättre folk"
>Russia finally annexes Finland
>Alexander admits we are a cool and supports autonomy
>Some emperors later do not dig this and try to make us more Russian
>Some nasty shit happens
>Communist revolution in Russia
>Lenin decides that if he makes us independent we will realize the wonders of communism and join back to glorious USSR
>Reds lose civil war
>Finland independent
Basically the swedes treated finns as second class citizens. So when Russia came they just took Finland without a fight (although the King was overthrown in Sweden partly due to not doing anything in the situation). So we resent them nowadays mostly for ruining our chances in Ice Hockey gold.
>>57058639
>Makes thread about Finnish history
>Gets flooded with swedes.
wew lads
>>57058879
Absurd. Swedish peasants were not treated any better than Finnish peasants.
>>57058853
>spend way too much time obsessing over us.
In reality though nobody even thinks about your irl
>>57058806
Not the same Finn here but we aren't talking about the soviet times but when we were under Russian rule
>>57058874
Sounds nice overall, now you can say anybody to fuck-off and mind your own busyness.
>>57058913
Riiight. I've seen your debates.
>>57058935
what debates?
>>57058879
This is not true. Finland was a integrated part of Sweden.
You hade they same right as anyone else, none for the most part.
>>57058894
Stop making threads about us then
>>57058935
So you think 4chan reflects reality?
>>57058874
>mfw reds were mostly ethnic finns and whites were basically fennoswedes
>>57058954
I may partake in finnish media once in a blue moon.
We have /his/ for threads like this, but since your sole purpose is to provoke Finland-Sweden shit flinging till the bump limit and you don't actually care about history it's pointless to say
Our relations were fine
>>57058965
>>57058965
>>57058965
Civil war for most of the reds was not about the ideology itself but the thought of better conditions and rights for working class people
>>57059020
You people are extremely cynical.
>>57058965
Most "fennoswedes" are ethnic finns that changed their language since higher education was available only in swedish. The whole idea of fennoswedes being actual swedes is a common misconception.
Finland under Sweden didnt exist, it was only a buffer against Russia, so sure they exploited the shit out of us like any other state would have done
>>57059108
How can you say that?
>>57058639
They were part of Sweden for 700 years or so (1100 (ish) to 1809). Don't know if we bullied them, they were considered as Swedes, had the same rights and responsibilities. Though when Russia conquered them they were granted self-government so I guess they were nicer.
>>57059146
No, Russia existed as a buffer against Russia. We owned Neva back then, remember?
Fucking Russians. They ruined Russia.
>>57059108
Big portion yes, but most Fennoswedes are 40% Swedish on average.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/1783413/
>>57058767
No, it took the so-called crusades 100 years to pull all the Finns under their tax collection sphere. It was no cake walk at all because the technology difference wans't there. Swedes themselves barely had centralized power.
>>57058758
This didn't change Finnish lives one way or the other, since the urbanization was minimal and mostly occupied by Swedish speakers. Finns were in the same towns up until 1950's.
>>57059146
What efficient nations did not "exploit" all its territories?
Sounds awefully unefficient, like Russia or Poland-lithuania.
>>57059305
This is true, we where not centralized at all until Kalmar union tried to remove local swedish nobles from power.
>>57059346
It was so shit in fact that the Iron Age hill forts were kept running for a while even under Swedish rule. Finns still had to protect themselves with swords and spears against constant Novgorodian raids.
>>57058639
we wuz $lavez n shiet
>>57059269
Neva/Ingia was mostly populated by Karelians and/or Ingrians, Russians didn't live there until Peter the Great moved the Russian capital there
>>57059302
I doubt the Ålanders are 60% Finnish though
>>57059426
most feudal societies would be shit with such sparcely populated land desu
>it's a finnish/swedish history thread
So without reading it, Finns claiming they were enslaved and exploited by Sweden, and Swedes claiming they civilised and and helped Finland.
You'll never get a balanced or realistic view from a thread like this. But I'll give you my 2 cents.
In the early middle ages, Sweden was somewhat centralised. Finland at the time was populated by various Finnic tribes (which would later all start to be called Finns, though they were not originally "the same" people). Over a lengthy period of time these tribes were assimilated to the Kingdom of Sweden, likely peacefully according to modern historians. Probably due to the economic benefits and particularly to weaken Novgorod, which was a constant and relentless enemy. ~600 years pass in coexistence, and by the end Finns are more or less considered Swedes. After all, nationalism hadn't even been invented yet. Regarding Finns' treatment as part of Sweden, you'll get some conflicting accounts. They had more or less all the same rights and opportunities as all Swedes did, but the language and mythology were a bit of a problem. Higher education was only available in Swedish, and it was also the primary language of the nobility, so Finns had an inherently weaker position politically. Incidentally, fennoswedes are a result of some Finnish families switching languages for social opportunity, as well as some of the Swedish and German nobility that lived here.
In any case, Finnish language was not in a strong position, and neither was folk mythology and paganism. A large part of it was destroyed by forceful christianisation to the point where the knowledge will never be recovered. Rune singers were driven to the eastern parts of the country. But overall, life in Finland and life in Sweden was more or less the same. Finland was still very underdeveloped until the end of the Swedish empire, and cities only started getting properly built up during the Russian empire.
>>57060272
>Finland was still very underdeveloped until the end of the Swedish empire, and cities only started getting properly built up during the Russian empire.
Just like most of Sweden then, outside the capital most shit was undeveloped thanks to centralisation.
The industrial revolution helped most northern countries immensely. We were all poor as fuck compared to more densely populated countries.
>>57060799
>Just like most of Sweden then, outside the capital most shit was undeveloped thanks to centralisation.
Yes, I wasn't trying to imply otherwise. I mostly wanted to address some of the trolls who claim that Finland was "built by Swedes" or some other nonsense you always hear in these threads. Both Finland and Sweden were very rural and sparsely populated at the time.
>>57060272
That's true, but the toponym/ethnonym suomi/saami/häme (all same words) does attest to some previous long-standing identity here, which has to predate even Uralic because it's an Indo-European loanword meaning human. For some reason it was never forgotten over "Finland" or "Sverige".
>>57058758
>>57058965
tfw great grandfather was in the whites death squads
>>57060272
good post lad, kiitos
>>57058784
Really?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification_of_Finland
>>57059269
Nevajärvi was culturally more finnish than russian. Karjala takas perkele.
>>57058758
>>57058742
All of that is bullshit
We knew metallurgy way before Germanics came into existence and our archeology, mythology and vocabulary attests to this. Same goes for boat building, that's how Uralics originally spread from the Volga.
>>57059051
You aren't wrong.
>>57061452
There's no convincing evidence of it being an Indo-European loan though, most likely loaned from some extinct Paleo-European language that predates Indo-Europeans
>>57058758
>implying we came here after Swedes
too much bullshit
>>57067082
>getting baited this easily
>>57059108
>tfw I can trace my lineage so farmers and fishermen living in Nyland all the way back to the 16th century
Not a single Finn to be seen. You can't explain that.
>>57067569
I find it hard to believe, but I'll let you have it. You represent a small fraction of fennoswedes. Most of them(/us) have no more Swedish blood than any other Finn.
>>57067569
Some Fennoswedes are 100% Swedish (mostly Ålanders) while some are 100% Finnish
On average they are something between according to this study >>57059302
>>57058965
Many white leaders were fennoswedes but the troops were mostly finns as well
>>57058965
>whites were basically fennoswedes
Not really. The officer corps might have been dominated by Fenno-Swedes but the bulk of the armies consisted of Finns.
The Reds didn't have too many Fenno-Swedes due to socioeconomic reasons. Working class city dwellers were dominantly Finnish so there weren't too many Fenno-Swedes eager to join the ranks of the revolution.
>>57067530
They're swedes, I've a feeling they might actually believe all the bs they are spewing
>>57058679
No. Jääkärit gave us our independence.
More accurately it would be Germans if any outsider but I guess volgacuckmans gonna volgacuckman.
>>57058784
You have to go back.
>>57058705
It was Russia 2bh
>>57058854
>>57063519
Shout laughings.
Sweden/Finland threads have the best discussion tbqh familia.
>>57058965
Which is incorrect.
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luettelo_j%C3%A4%C3%A4k%C3%A4reist%C3%A4
I cry erry time.
>>57070195
the day sweden lost it's balls
>>57060272
>available in Swedish
In Latin in university of Turku/Helsinki which is 100 years older than any Russian university.
> Finnish language was not in a strong position
The land owning farmers had representation in parliament in Stockholm and they were provided with translators. Priests and law enforcement in Finnish speaking areas were required to speak Finnish. Starting from 1686 every citizen was taught to read and write in Finnish in Finnish speaking areas.
>Finland was still very underdeveloped until the end of the Swedish empire, and cities only started getting properly built up during the Russian Empire
Because of Pulp and paper industry.
>>57067569
>Not a single Finn to be seen. You can't explain that.
All names were in Swedish in official books.
>>57058758
Thanks a lot for leaving us to the Russians. I'll never forget you abandoning us!
>>57067569
The language shift happened earlier, around the 14th century.
sweden opress finland
sweden destroy finland people
sweden pay reparations
sweden is destroyed by muslims because karma
hahaha die jörgen and ulle
>>57070195
one day we will become benis again, gay brother. :D
Why was it so easy for Sweden to subjugate Finland? What is the answer Finnish intellectuals give?
>>57059499
Well they look like Swedish fags t.bh.
Then again, NW Russians don't look all that much like us despite having Finnic ancestry.
>>57070828
never
>>57070870
Because there was no Finland and most likely no subjucation either.
>>57058758
>we built the first cities
maybe, there were lots of villages and hill forts thou
>established trade routes
lol no, trade emerged here centuries before first swede set his foot on Finland's soil
>gave them metallurgy
there are archaeological finds of metal tools found in Finland that date before Jesus
>boat building techniques
no, in the past finno-ugric people have needed boats as means for travelling for millenias
>agriculture
farming as a living hood came to Finland 5000 years before Jesus
nice bait
>>57070870
Finland had a very low population density at the time, half of the country wasn't even settled by Finns but Saami hunter gatherers and the much of the coasts were deserted because of Viking raiders.
Keep in mind Finland has a much harsher climate than the cozy parts of southern Sweden, that's a big reason why we have the highest IQ in Europe. Quality over quantity.
>>57070870
Finland was under pressure from both Sweden and Novgorod. Finland was a tribal country which meant no properly organised resistance against the invaders. As far as I know, subjugation of Finland by Sweden was a long process but Sweden had the motivation and resources, so the Finns couldn't resist in the long term. Rivalry between Novgorod and control over Baltic sea trade was incentive enough for Sweden to keep fighting and converting.
>>57058758
I know its a joke picture BUT FUCK IT TRIGGERS ME SO FUCKING BAD
>>57070870
pagan vikings were afraid of our shaman magics
it took the southern christians to tell you that magic is herecy
>>57058965
RREEEEE
You fuckers murdered my grandgranddad in the white terror you fucker you
>>57071047
Well it's half true in the sense that Finland was repopulated by both Germanics and Finnic people from Estonia and Karelia in the iron age, but it happened simultaneously and resulted in the Germanics adopting a Finnish language.
Saami were present all over the country before us though.
>>57071289
Go fuck yourself. Reds were trying to genocide Finns by assimilating us into the Soviet bydlo horde. Most of the white heroes were Finns btw.
>>57071440
The good side of white victory was the fact that the reds could build socialism democratically instead of going red fascism mode
>>57071556
Nordic socialism is cancer desu. It's a shame that Lapua movement failed.
>>57071440
>Reds were trying to genocide Finns
proofs (of finnish reds doing this)
>finns dispises us
I thought we were bros, pillaging and raping germs, poles, danes and russians together.
>>57070870
What is the answer Swedish intellectuals give?
>>57071622
Reds didn't hide the fact they had no intention to keep Finland independent. Finland was to be annexed by the Soviet Union and our ethnic identity was to be merged with the Russian one for the sake of Communist unity.
>>57071678
That Finns were too high on shrooms to give a shit about being subjugated. Also, we introduced the mud hut to Finland, which caused a revolution in how to live indoors. No longer where the Finns forced to live under wind shelters and holes in the ground
>>57071623
It ended in 1808 when Finns had paid taxes to Stockholm for 600 years like bros and Sweden dropped us like a jerk off sock.
>>57071289
Good.
>>57071815
>Finns had paid taxes to Stockholm for 600 years
Sounds like every other part of Sween that isn't Stockholm. Why isn't my province independent?
>>57071815
How could it be our fault that the Russians annexed you? We barely prevented them from taking all of our country.
>>57071722
And if the liberal government wasn't overthrown in Russia then the whites wouldn't have wanted to separate from Russia while the reds would have wanted.
Reds were anti-russian and whites pro-russian as long as there were monarchists in the power
The bolsheviks took over and the reds wanted to be a part of this, while now the whites were suddenly anti-russian since they were anti-red thus being anti-people
With German and Swedish help they won.
>>57071623
Those were some good years, perhaps the best banter the world has ever seen:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwedentrunk
>>57071896
Because Finns have a naïve thought process of either giving up completely or not having any compromises.
>>57071621
Go to Russia if you hate welfare states so much
>>57071745
Sweet NEET life ruined by Swedes.
>>57070999
Live in far northern us basically Canada, can confirm the weather is harsh and there's less of us but we're on average WAY smarter than southerners in America
Swedes can amend themselves for 1808 the next time Russians attack Finland. I don't have high hopes though seeing how it went -39.
>>57071896
You never even tried.
>>57071888
Yeah, and those parts still receive protection from Stockholm.
>>57063671
My relatives were high ranking in reds.
Somehow my father and mother always vote for SDP or vasenmistoliitto grandparents were communist and apparently all of their family holidays were to soviet union and east germany mainly (Odessa, Moscow and east Berlin) family car was always an blue Wartburg
>>57071936
good times
>>57071935
You're an idiot and a liar. Whites were 100% pro-Finnish independence except maybe some career officers of the Russian empire.
>>57071623
we are bros, uneducated retarded faggots just dislike sweden because it is mandatory in school and they are too retarded to learn it
i hope that in the future we wont join NATO but form a defensive alliance with you guys, i wouldn't fight for american jews but i would die for sweden
>>57072109
Also keep in mind Finland was already independent when the Reds started the war of Soviet annexation
>>57071935
Now you forget that the Jäger movement and training started long before commies came to power in Russia.
Didn't Mannerheim himself state that Finland could not have done as well in the winter war as they did if it wasn't for Swedish support?
>>57072254
Support by definition is meaningful.
>>57072103
>you'll never force-feed a piss and shit cocktail down a slavshit peasant's throat
why live
>>57072172
Whom were mainly working class finns. Some of them didn't leave to fight in the whites because they didn't want to fight against themselves
>>57072425
Stop making up crap. Of course Jääkärit wanted to fight against Communist trash.
wtf is this thread about, sweden is our only friend in this cold bitter world
>>57072472
>>57072109
>50-tier white propaganda education
>>57072518
yeah just like last time right?
In the "Statsrådsdiktamen" on 19 February 1940, Sweden's king Gustaf V publicly rejected pleas from Finland's government for military intervention in the Winter War to help defend Finland against the Soviet invasion. This statement from the king was aimed at pressuring Finland to accept harsh Soviet peace conditions and to quiet a strong Swedish activist public opinion advocating participation in the war. The statement had this effect, but was also to produce substantial bitterness in Finland.
During the war, Sweden's government rejected a total of three formal pleas from Finland's government to engage militarily in Finland's defense against the Soviet Union. Detailed plans for Swedish deployment along Finland's border had been made ten years before, and they were regularly updated in secret contacts between the General Staffs of the two countries. However, no formal alliance had been concluded, and a proposed official recognition of cooperative defense of the de-militarized Åland Islands had been rebuffed by Sweden's parliament in June 1939.
they left us to die and would do so again happily
>>57072518
Fuck off Swedelover go make a /Nordic/ or something. Swedes are multicultifagcucks and represent everything that's wrong with the world.
Estonians are actually our bros and not total cucks but I've never seen you make pro-Estonian post.
>>57072636
That ruse went way too far tbqh
>>57058639
>So, I heard that Finland and Sweden have history
All lies. Literally, figuratively, unironically, spiritually, actually never heard of her.
>>57071621
Finland would just have been a poor shithole instead of one of the most pleasant places in the world economically if the reds had won.
>>57072698
"JUST A PRANK BRO"
>>57072806
Lapua movement were fascists. The commie scum who happen to be many of the faggots ITT grandparents deserved much more than they got.
>>57072636
Birger Jarl came in like
IM ETHAN BRADBERRY
>>57072960
great memes bro
The only thing bad thing Sweden did was not officially joining the finns against Russia during WW2
>>57072667
Estonia is too poor to be cucks. Sweden is just an outcome of peace and women, there are still good people here.
This thread is irrelevant since Sweden does not even exist anymore.
We are now living next to Pakistan
>>57073585
good
I'm grateful about everything.
We'll retain a place for you, Sverigebros.
>>57073585
I thought it was Afghanistan
Pakis hate Afghan refugees, they are essentially saying fuck off we're full in Pakistan
>>57073654
No we won't. We don't want more Swedish speakers here.
>>57073814
They will have to learn Finnish, obviously.
>>57059235
WUZ
>Finns
>white
>>57072571
>greentext and a meme picture to show how dumb these people are instead of disproving them
>>57074318
>Tell facts
>Others tell their opinions
>Post meme and greentext and a meme picture to show how dumb these people are
>Other does the same
fug :DDD
>>57072636
Swedish "crusades" into Finland never happened
>>57074295
Who are these semen demons?
>>57070030
>No. Jääkärit gave us our independence.
Are you retarded? Our independence wasn't fought for - it simply was a matter of issuing a decree of independence, which was de facto backed by the Soviets.
>mfw my ancestors were landowners and therefore on the winning side of Whites during the civil war
>>57074318
Et tainnut kuunnella historian tunneilla?
T. erihomo
ITT: Swedes acting like saints and lying about history.
