Gaddafi thread? Gaddafi thread.
long live Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya
gadaffi dindu nuffin
one of the few person you can easily and unironically say "he did nothing wrong"
>>56600541
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y
>>56600701
He did many things wrong. Impossible to hold a certain job for 40 years and not make mistakes.
However, he did nothing to warrant the gang bang Libya received.
>>56600799
wow rare
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBY-0n4esNY
ZENGA ZENGA
>>56600733
>I have thousands of deaths on my hands and I'm very smug about it
He was so handsome when he was young.
Do Libyans usually look this good?
He got what he deserved. If he didn't want to get attacked, he shouldn't have taunted NATO and boasted about how he was going to commit warcrimes.
>>56601079
Can my answer possibly get me invited into Cyprus?
>>56601124
>russian
>shilling for HATO
WTF I hate NATO now
>>56601169
Maybe
>>56600541
he wanted Africa to be self-reliamt, hence he had to go
enjoy the refugees everyone
Wonder what he was thinking when the crowd pulled him out of the sewer and stuck a knife up his ass before beating him to death.
I'd imagine it would make any man ponder on the choices he has made during his life.
>Mrs. Clinton’s old friend and political adviser, Sidney Blumenthal, who regularly emailed her political advice and vaguely sourced intelligence reports on Libya, urged her to capitalize on the dictator’s fall.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/us/politics/hillary-clinton-libya.html
![sarkosy-with-clinton-whatz-weeth-you-americanz-now2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/yRAzEdy.jpg "sarkosy-with-clinton-whatz-weeth-you-americanz-now2[1].jpg")
>>56601372
>trust the west, die like the rest
>>56601329
Libya is a very ethnically diverse country. We have people of Arabic, Berber, Turkic, Balkan, Greek and subsuharan African descent. You're bound to find qts here.
>>56601372
The sewer thing is debunked and you should feel dumb for ever believing it
>>56601124
>taunted NATO
>boasted about war crimes
lol u wut
>>56601690
And it has an even more diverse political system.
=•}
Remember when Libyan flags were common?
>>56601124
Just cause he wasnt cucked doesnt mean he deserves to fall
This man did nothing to deserve what happened to Libya. I hope Assad will not end up like him.
Their flag was also much better under Gaddafi, I loved the simplicity of it.
To the Libyan anon:
do you miss the good old days of the Brother Leader?
>>56601998
One left to Egypt, I started a new job and rarely have time to shitpost, and when I do I only do so in the /mena/ general.
Last time there was a peak in Libyan posters Libya was a hot topic in the news and multiple threads on /int/ were being made about it.
Friendly reminder, we fucked up
>>56602454
Broder! BROther leaDER. Am I amazing or what?
And dunno. I'm not one to cry over spilled milk. Besides, going through two civil wars has helped me grow in many ways. I know it sounds fucked up, but I appreciate them in a way for that..
But if you're asking if life was better and easier back then, then definitely.
>>56601703
He threatened to massacre innocents had NATO not intervened. He also threatened to attack europe.
>>56602723
In what way did it change you if you don't mind me asking?
>islamic gommunism
It was kinda weird timing too, because the last few years of Quads-daffi, he really started to reorient the cunt towards Yurop and Murka.
Maybe change simply didn't come fast enough, but I seem to recall the government there trying to make amends for some of the high profile turrrrism cases.
He also seems to have been a horny little fucker who couldn't stop sticking his dick in people. Maybe he fugged the daughter of someone important, I dunno.
>>56602647
Benghazi
>>56601690
lol you mean some Yugoslavians are living in Lybia right now?
>>56602841
Currency collapse after they stole our hundreds of billions in reserves
Government can't pay workers because oil production stopped
Militias and crime everywhere. They often kidnap people for ransom to finance their operations
shit like that
>>56603093
My great uncle is from the Balkans and he lived in Libya for more than 20 years and left at the last moment during the war. He really loved the country and still wishes he could return someday.
>>56603093
No, they were in the Ottoman army
The Greeks are also Muslim refugees from the Greek war of independence
>>56603172
Do you look at Syria and think "this is like a longer version of the Libyan civil war"?
Is the fall of Assad going to have the same impact as the fall of Gaddafi in your opinion?
>>56603211
Let me live in Cyprus for 20 years pls
I'm an infidel and it seems like we're getting greater doses of sharia law every day. A few days ago they made penis in bagina punishable with stoning.
>>56603268
I don't think that, no. Our rebels weren't sectarianly motivated, so I doubt they could've lasted for 5 years without NATO. If anything, the intervention is proof that they were at the end of their line at the time.
I think it might be even worse for Syria. Our "rebels" could forgive Gaddafi supporters, as they'd usually have close family members who supported Gaddafi. But in Syria, the Assad supporters are viewed as enemies of god and spilling their blood is a sure way to heaven. This is a view even the most moderate of Syrians hold towards at least the Alawites and Druze and Christians fighting for Bashar.
>>56600799
Why was he so against modernising Libya? You had a state in 2010 whose institutions and mentality were haven't changed since the 70's, I think it's part of why the people were so eager for change despite the risks.
>>56603480
It really felt more modern than Algeria when I best though
What hasn't changed? We were all about muh electronic government and freedom of speech and ex-political prisoners going on TV saying they were sexually abused and all that new age stuff lol
>>56603480
Also, assuming we were lagging behind more than your average ME country, what makes you think it was him who was against it?
>>56600541
Another oil reserve. How do you keep control of your government? How do you keep it clean?
>>56601690
>The sewer thing is debunked and you should feel dumb for ever believing it
Where did they find him then? Hiding somewhere in Sirte?
>>56603636
I think Libya had the 3rd or 4th highest HDI in MENA in 2010 after some of the gulf states
He's bullshitting you
God Bless Gaddaffi
>>56604023
The only thing we know is that his convoy leaving Sirte was bombed. The whole "he was inside a drainage pipe" is a meme rebels invented because he hurt their feelings and called them rats, so their bright idea was to say "he was in a sewer like a rat lmao"
The video of his capture shows him half conscious and unaware of his surroundings at first, and the camera showed pretty much all of the surrounding areas and it was in the middle of a very flat desert (no drainage pipes there)
Why would the guy capturing the whole thing not catch the pipe? He walks around, picks up a boot and babbles for a while and doesn't show the OMGPIPE
Either way, no proof he was in a pipe. It all comes down to this.
>>56604557
Cool man. Thanks for the explanation.
>tfw you'll never visit Leptis Magna because you'll be beheaded by ISIS
Feels bad man.
>>56604693
ISIS still doesn't control that. You can visit it, really.
Plus 100 euros is like 400 dinars here now, so you can easily hire some bodyguards and feel like an important person
>>56604693
>>56604557
>>56603211
RARE
A R
R A
ERAR
Why does /int/ always bust a nut over this guy?
He was a lunatic
>>56604814
LOL. That sounds amazing. I have been to many crazy places, but hiring bodyguards would be very cool. I have been meaning to visit for many years as I have an interest in Roman history and it is a place I have always wanted to go.
Thanks bro
>>56604924
/int/ has double standards and power fantasies
>>56604924
A stable government, even if headed by a bit of a madman, is surely preferable to complete and utter anarchy and ISIS and other rebel groups vying for control.
>>56605089
*tips*
>>56604924
/int/'s fucking stupid.
He was a ruthless dictator who threatened all opposition to his shitty government with violence. The NATO intervention was an extension of the UN resolution that aimed to prevent Gaddafi from carrying out warcrimes and atrocities on his own people.
>>56605116
He's right you know
I fight for colonel gaddafi
fuck nato
>>56604924
He had some interesting theories in political science. He invented his own bland of socialism that's a mix of state-capitalism and anarcho-syndicalism.
Also, he wrote okay literature.
>>56604930
I-I can be your guide if you're serious about this.
I mean, a thousand euros can pretty much buy you a 2 month comfy vacation here where you try every local meal and visit everything accessible. Economically collapsing countries are the best for vacations.
>>56605089
Yeah, because the libertarian mess they made where rich people hire gangs that protect them while poor people were working in terrible conditions is definitely something we should strive for.
The prosperity America was based on sheer luck with resources coupled with a lot of blood from immigrants and slaves. Oh, and natives losing their land then starving to death.
>>56605319
>>56605319
>ibn aziqa
>>56605127
Gaddafi regained full uncontested control over Azzawiya, Ejdabia, Albrega, Ras Lanouf, and a bunch of other towns, plus controlled the majority of Misrata and Benghazi by the time NATO intervened. He literally issued a pardon for all people who surrender and even let people captured with guns in their hands go.
I have relatives who've been captured. Their families wept during the two days they were in custody thinking Gaddafi would be drinking their blood like the media had them believe. Next thing they're out and free and even allowed to leave the country or travel into rural areas, which they did.
>>56605487
Just because your relatives weren't beaten and tortured doesn't mean others weren't. Gaddafi threatened to massacre innocent civilians in Tripoli. If he didn't want to trigger a NATO intervention he shouldn't have boasted about violating the UN charter of Human Rights.
>>56605135
You say that but stability and peace is heavily underapprectiaed and understood.
>>56605588
>let me tell you about your country
>>56605628
Shouldn't you be sucking Russian cock in the Syria general on /pol/
>>56605588
>Gaddafi threatened to massacre innocent civilians in Tripoli
Citation?
I remember him saying he's going to fight terrorists and promising "fooled" civilians a pardon
Even that one chick that claimed to have been raped refused to cooperate with investigation (prove she was raped) and fled to America where she proved to have mental issues just like how the regime claimed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iman_al-Obeidi
>>56605588
Then why invade Libya over other nations and using Africa alone in this case with much worse shit going on?
W
>>56605628
It's really easy for sheltered middle and upper class kids and Benjimen Franklin to speak so courageously.
In really, 99.9% people would rather less freedoms than risk dying, and it's pretty normal. We do have survival instincts and we will always prefer a situation that increases our chances of survival.
>>56605894
Are you gonna make it anon?
Last I heard from you, you said you heard gun fire while making your tuna melts
tfw iran is next
>>56605976
Seeing as I have no idea what Tuna melts are, I fear you might be confusing me for someone else.
Where do you know me from?
>>56606082
Are you the guy who went to the pro-Gaddafi rally in Tripoli?
>>56606204
Yes, but that's probably around 30% of all people who live in Tripoli.
Did I, at any point, have you on an instant messaging app?
>>56604557
>>56601690
What a shame, it would have been a fitting end to the vermin king.
Let's take solace in the fact that anal trauma caused by a bladed object was confirmed by an actual doctor when they performed autopsy on the shitbag.
>>56606270
No, just from 4chan
Might've been /MENA/
>>56605869
The situation in other African countries wasn't as immediate and grave as in Libya at the time. Besides saying "but those guys over there are worse" isn't a good argument from stopping an atrocity.
>>56606539
But it raises the question as to why NATO didn't tackle the bigger atrocities first instead of Gaddafi
>>56606597
>why NATO didn't tackle the bigger atrocities first instead of Gaddafi
because the US didnt feel like it :^)
>>56600673
Gaddafi was cool Chile, but it doesnt get much cooler then throwing communists out of helicopters.
>>56604557
Wasn't it us who bombed him?
Nice "enforcement of no-fly zone" lmao
>>56606312
And you, the person taking solace in the fact that some dude who had no effect on your life got tortured to death, are not vermin?
>>56606313
Hey, it's not too late (;
>>56606539
There has been absolutely no proof Gaddafi was going to commit atrocities.
In fact, NATO bombing ground targets, including civilian ones, without UN security council allowing it, was an atrocity.
Libya abided by the council's resolution and no plane took off starting from the moment it took affect, yet unsuspecting ground troops doing their job and having aggressed no one were suddenly being bombed.
I understand you personally want to feel different from the hordes of zombies gobbling government propaganda in Russia, but you're not remotely being subjective or openminded like you think you are.
>>56607044
You or France. Same shit to me desu.
>>56607044
>no fly zone
>immediately begin flying your planes over it
Kinda hypocritcal
Op youre not fooling anyone.
>>56600541
It was a french agent who killed him. You guys mad?
>>56605089
A starving man would give up all his freedom for a sandwich.
>>56606312
>I support brutal torture
>>56606539
Prooster.png
What has been going on by the government in the DRC (mass rape, slavery for diamond production, genocide of pgymies) the last 50 years is 10x worse than Libya ever got.
>>56607414
Not just that. The Russians and Chinese agreed to enforcing a no-fly zone, not a bombing campaign.
They made this explicitly clear, and since that point the trust relationship Obama built up 2009-2011 has only gotten worse.
It was such a colossal fuck up.
If it wasn't for Russia acting first in 2013, Syria would be even worse than it already is.
>>56607572
proofsteronkeyboard.gif
US warplanes literally blew up his convoy and then he was dragged out of the wreckage half-alive and tortured to death.
>>56607572
Also he financed this guy's political campaign of 2007 :)
Bump
It's amazing how ignorant so many /int/ users are of the situation which was a daily discussion during /int/'s early days in Spring 2011.
Obviously we're flooded by newfags.
>>56607868
Proof.
I can't believe how many proofster pictures I need for this thread.
>>56607414
>America and NATO
>hypocritical
You don't say?
>>56607762
This
Even the South Sudan was seeing far, far more casualties and starvation caused by the war at the time.
>>56607817
And people call us out for "blaming all our problems on the west" when NATO was literally violating the UN no-fly-zone by claiming to be enforcing it
>>56607842
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Muammar_Gaddafi
>At around 08:30 local time (06:30 UTC) on 20 October, Gaddafi, his army chief Abu-Bakr Yunis Jabr, his security chief Mansour Dhao, and a group of loyalists attempted to escape in a convoy of 75 vehicles.[7][8] A Royal Air Force reconnaissance aircraft spotted the convoy moving at high speed, after NATO forces intercepted a satellite phone call made by Gaddafi.[9] NATO aircraft then fired on 11 of the vehicles, destroying one. A U.S. Predator drone operated from a base near Las Vegas[8] fired the first missiles at the convoy, hitting its target about 3 kilometres (2 mi) west of Sirte. Moments later, French Air Force Rafale fighter jets continued the bombing.
>In late September 2012, reports surfaced about the involvement of French secret services in the tracking and killing of Muammar Gaddafi. According to some sources, Gaddafi was in fact killed by a French spy who infiltrated the mob of rebels that captured Gaddafi, and shot him in the head after his capture. The motive was alleged to be to prevent Gaddafi from being interrogated and revealing links with French President Nicolas Sarkozy.[28] Former interim prime minister Mahmoud Jibril, told an Egyptian television that “it was a foreign agent who mixed with the revolutionary brigades to kill Qaddafi.”[29] Former NTC head of foreign intelligence Rami al-Obeidi confirmed Jibril's assertion, stating that "French intelligence played a direct role in the death of Gaddafi, including his killing" and claiming that Bashar al-Assad sold Gaddafi's satellite telephone number to French spies operating in Sirte in exchange for a "grace period" and less political pressure on the Syrian government by France.[30] Diplomatic sources in Tripoli stated that if a foreign agent was responsible for Gaddafi's death, it was certainly a French agent.[31]
>>56607880
D-does anyone have my greenflag screenshots people made from my aka threads?
I want to see how much my English has improved since then.
>>56606597
we no forgive, we no forget
The US/NATO had a long-standing grudge with Gaddafi
Overthrowing an unfriendly leader in hopes that a pro-Western government is established...it's modern geopolitics
Problem is, that backfired and now Libya is a mess and no one wants to be accountable
>>56608012
His younger son looks like he's from /fa/ lmao
>>56607969
Yeah that sounds like bullshit. Gaddafi wasn't getting out of that islamist mob alive either way.
>>56607905
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_Sarkozy-Kadhafi
And if you want 'muh proofs' in English: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=uk&tbm=nws&authuser=0&q=gaddafi+sarkozy+2007+campaign&oq=gaddafi+sarkozy+2007+campaign&gs_l=news-cc.3..43j43i53.3734.12474.0.14016.33.6.2.25.27.0.94.518.6.6.0...0.0...1ac.1.vUhZtndeB0M#hl=en&gl=uk&authuser=0&tbm=nws&q=kadhafi+sarkozy+2007+campaign
>>56607989
I sadly do not but I remember the conversations with you in 2011.
It's surreal how correct many of us on /int/ were about the idiocy of using force to bring peace.
Now Libya's political division looks like a fucking gay pride rainbow flag.
>>56608094
That's just speculation. Also they wouldn't have gotten to him anyway if we hadn't tracked down his satellite phone...
>>56608114
That seems extremely unlikely to have a meaningful effect on his campaign.
But I won't doubt it. Who knows.
Still €11 million for a villa is barely gonna make a dent in a political campaign.
Still, we all know Sarkozy was backstabbing Gaddafi for a reason. Maybe that was it, but I think it has more to do with other illicit connections. Especially with African immigrants.
>>56608156
There's literally a video of him surrounded by a mob beating him and eventually stabbing him with a broken bottle many times.
>get rid of saddam hussein
>iraq plunges into chaos which persists to this day
>get rid of gadaffi
>libya also plunges into chaos
>trying to get rid of al assad right now
Why do we keep making the same mistake over and over? When will we learn that stability is the most important thing, regardless of who is in charge?
>support rebels to overthrow Muslim dictator
>overthrow Muslim dictator
>wonder why islamists take over the country
Why don't we do the same thing in Syria! Surely it will turn out better!
>>56608278
they put wood sticks in his ass too.
his ass was bleeding through his pants
>>56608303
Its not a mistake
its exactly as planned
and thats the scariest part
>>56608303
You tell me
Your leader seems to think Russia is worse even though he is now doing the exact same thing.
>>56608408
come on now we both know the US and UK might as well be the same country for all the difference between our foreign policy positions
>>56608393
You expected anything different?
Prepare for Chaos
>>56608455
2bh Hillary is going to lose if she faces Trump
the debates would be next-level entertainment watching Trump tear through her
>>56608451
Lmao he says as his leader gets in bed with Mr. Stoic Jinping
Russia shows us how to handle Middle-East interventions. The reason we don't do what they do is because we have a reason to extend these troubles.
>>56608507
I think you're forgetting the current year
>>56608547
that doesn't work on Trump, its fascinating
CURRENT YEAR would demolish anyone but Trump, who deflects it and weaponizes it.
>>56608155
>that resolution
>no legend
come on senpai
>>56600541
I'm honestly impressed by how long he remained in power being anti-western, and how he managed to do so well in isolation.
>>56608600
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Civil_War_(2014–present)#
C'mon, it's the current year baka senpai.
>>56608570
Trump is going to nominate Monica Lewinsky as his VP.
I think you forgot how a certain someone won by using the current year/minority argument 8 years ago.
>>56608256
You're thinking about campaigns in the US, which are significantly more expensive.
In France, and more generally in Europe, campaign costs are much more strictly regulated and campaigns are generally much cheaper. For example you can't just buy ads on TV, every official candidate gets the same TV time for free to show their spots. Also there's a cap on the maximum amount of spending you're allowed to, and if you don't exceed it a percentage of the cost of the campaign is paid back to the party by the state.
For example the 2007 campaign officially cost Sarkozy 21 million euros, so allegations of a 50 million dollars donation are pretty serious.
This is especially problematic since many think it had (if it was true, which most analysts think it was at least to some extent) major implications on our foreign policy, and more specifically on France's agressive stance against Libya in 2011. This was especially strange since it was a 180° turn in comparison to the previous stance of Sarkozy towards Gaddafi, which was more than friendly (there again raising suspicions). For example when he invited Kadhafi to France, he even allowed him to set up a bedouin tent in the Elysée garden. Pic related was taken there. Now why would he accept such a humiliation if he didn't owe Kadhafi something big?
>>56608678
>Monica Lewinsky
kek
like I said, traditional attacks don't work on Trump. You have to get down to his level and outlast him if you don't get blown away immediately, which everyone has failed to do so (Cruz is hanging on purely because of his unique position) or hasn't tried yet (Kasich, who stays in on the virtue of not being Trump or Cruz)
>>56608770
Wait you're telling me that isn't Paris?
>>56608770
And yes, I believe there were illicit activtites.
Jeez only €25 million?
Lmao we spent $14 billion in 2012 Lamo lmoa
So you replaced a corrupt Italian with an incompetent Belgian? I remember Hollande giving those speeches in the rain without the umbrella back during early 2014. Looked like the saddest guy in the world.
>>56608278
How is that inconsistent with the fact that he was killed by a french infiltrated spy?
For example look at this news report, that assembles all the footage we've got of his death: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGm492qVEzA
The rebels are clearly roughing Kadhafi up, but it doesn't look like they planned on immediately executing him. If that was their plan, they could have just shot him when they captured him.
And if you listen to the end of the video, they mention a guy yelling "We want him alive!". But the doctor in the ambulance (there again, why would they give him a doctor and rush him to a hospital that if their intention at the time was to kill him on the spot) says he died of bullet wounds to the head.
So this pretty much corroborates the narrative that a french agent infiltrated the mob after they captured him and made sure Kadhafi wouldn't live to be interrogated.
>>56609040
It's plausible but the reason I doubt it is because Gaddafi had already been stabbed multiple times by the mob. This is after his vehicle crashed into the blown up one in front of him.
He wasn't gonna live through that mob.
You know arabic?
Also, the rebels tortured him because they hated him. That's why he didn't die immediately. They also had guns.
It is a conspiracy theory that, sadly, has been covered up well enough to not be confirmable with current evidence.
If you provide some more sources, I might agree. But Arab sources are known to be probe to conspiracy theories.
>>56609024
Sarkozy is French with some Hungarian roots, while Hollande is just French, although you could say his name makes him dutch...
>>56609040
>"Tomorrow, Libya celebrates Liberation day."
>>56609249
Oh okay. He looks Italian to me. Sleazy.
And yeah. That seems very suspicious that he died of a bullet wound to the head considering he was alive, barely, on the car.
Did someone get in the van with him? They had to have. I wonder if we will one day talk to the ambulance driver and learn the truth,
I am actually starting to believe you.
Also, I doubt he actually was found in the drainage hole. The guy looked like he couldn't see or walk.
>>56609325
He wasn't. I've been to Sirte, there aren't fucking drainage pipes in the dry as fuck flat as fuck area where the convoy was bombed. The videos confirm there weren't any either.
>>56609150
It's barely a conspiracy theory: the death of Muammar Kadhaffi is largely unexplained in the sense that noone has a very clear image of who did what in what order.
The explanation of an assassination by a French agent is plausible, consistent with what we know of the event, fits within the international relations landscape (both concerning French aggressiveness in the Libyan crisis and allegations of Kadhafi's financial contribution to Sarkozy's campaign) and is corroborated by a series of statements by key figures of the intelligence community at the time.
I don't really know what you mean by "provide more sources", I can only refer you to those in the wikipedia article, which seem to be pretty solid. If that doesn't convince you, I don't know what will. (Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, skepticism towards conspiracy theories is always a good thin, but I think it goes too far when it makes you think that nothing secret ever happens in this world :) )
>>56609408
Yeah it was an obvious lie looking back at it.
Look at Frenchanon's video here>>56609040
to see how America's government viewed Gaddafi's death.
It's ironic.
Btw, is the new unity government working? I heard both sides mostly rejected it even though they "formed" a government, and now Islamists are gaining ground all around.
>>56609627
I don't even know who's Islamist anymore. The eastern government is infested with Salafies and sold out to Saudi Arabia too. But I guess they're still not Islamists.
If we consider only the Tripoli government to be Islamist then no, the other side is the one making gains.
>>56609476
I'm saying that I don't think that French agent could have been that good at being in the right place at the right time.
Supposedly the phone gave Gaddafi away, but surely he knew they would track his phone? He surely only used throwaway ones right? I mean he made it 6 months without getting hit.
But yeah, after seeing your sources and watching that video, your theory seems likely.
I just question if Gaddafi would have survived even without a bullet to the head. You could see he had been shot in the stomach and had a huge cut on his head and buttocks on the car.
Still, being shot in the head in the ambulance. Jesus you could be right. It makes sense.
>>56609680
Yemen and Libya got fucked hard
Nobody even covers them anymore
>>56609680
Where at? They own a piece near Tripoli. There?
Also, I heard ISIS is expanding east and west slowly but surely. And Benghazi is mostly islamist run now.
Al-Nusra even threw their hat in.
>>56609689
It could be anyone's phone branded as his by either Bashar or France for convenience or simplicity. It could also be his throw away phone and Bashar was one of the few who could get its number while still unthrown.
>>56609734
Bashar is a huge rat if those reports are true
>>56609726
Your knowledge is old. ISIS suffered great loses in the east. They were repelled from Ejdabia, are cornered in a small part of Benghazi, and lost most of Derna to the local Alqa'eda branch.
They are however attempting to expand southwest to connect with Algeria and Niger.
>>56609776
Syria has always following pragmatism in its diplomacy. Even giving the soviets/Russia a military base on your soil was a very dangerous taboo among Arab nationalists.
They do what they gotta do, I guess.
>>56609689
It was a satellite phone, if no one has the number except close allies, no one can track it down. Where Kadhafi fucked up (or where the French played smart) is that Bashar wasn't as close of an ally as the Libyans thought and sold Kadhafi's number out...
>>56609712
There's a reason Yemen is known as the "forgotten war" among Western analysts.
Pic very related
You'll hear WAYYYY more about Russia in Syria being evil and awful. Nothing about Saudi Arabia in Yemen.
>>56609776
It's not hard to hack phones. Especially when all Western intelligence is focused on finding you.
I doubt Bashar decided to betray him 6 months into the intervention. He could've done it early on and the war would have ended.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W6syr1tjbgA
Youtube video is hilariously relevant.
>>56609903
Maybe another reason is that there have been 6,300 deaths since the start of the Yemeni Civil War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_Civil_War_(2015%E2%80%93present)) while between 300,000 and 500,000 people have lost their life in Syria...
>>56609835
It's not unheard of for satellite phones to be hacked. Also, our forces may have gotten lucky and noticed him fleeing Sirte.
I mean, we knew he was holed up there.
>>56609789
My knowledge is from /k/ Middle-East wars threads.
This must be recent.
>>56609968
That's faster than Syria 2011-2012 and we got wayyyyy more media attention on that even though Libya was happening as well.
Also, there's a media blackout in America of the Yemen war. I can't remember the last report on it.
The man was genuinely insane. Do his supporters admit that or do they still claim it is western propaganda?
All of his speeches and interviews are fucking bananas. Complete gibberish that made no sense at all.
>>56600701
>did nothing wrong
>Great Man Made River
pick one.
>>56610002
Pic related. We reported a lot more on Syria in 2011-2012 than we do on Yemen.
Our media ignores Yemen because we are supporting our allies who are doing the same thing Russia and Iran are doing in Syria. 3500 civilian deaths so far. Al-Qaeda and ISIS recently expanded their territory greatly btw.
>>56610002
Another factor might be that the Yemeni crisis is very complicated and can't easily be dumbed down, while the Syrian Civil War, which is also very complex, can usually be reduced to 'DAE fugg da muslim terrorists'...
>>56609968
>Saudi Arabia is using mercenaries from Senegal and Colombia to fight in Yemen
Shamful
>>56610034
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W6syr1tjbgA
Was this gibberish?
The guy was perfectly rational, at least for most of his life. Translation of Arabic is just naturally shit. That's how Arabs from Libya speak for some reason.
>>56610072
>Yemeni civil war is more complicated than Syria
Ayy lmao
The only group that reports on Yemen is the BBC, and they are the ones who call it the Forgotten War. The BBC correspondent literally says that a lot of media avoid the war because it is unpopular and Russia is easier to talk/complain about.
>>56610072
The Yemeni conflict can easily be dumbed down to evil dictator and shia alliance vs sunnis and regionalists
>>56610072
The Yemeni Civil war is this
1. Old ruler is couped by Saudi and Friends
2. Saudi puppet "elected" in a one man election with 99.7% of vote
3. Houthis get pissed off and join forces with the old president's army
4. Conquer Yemen
5. Saudis and friends get mad and attack back and fail
>>56610139
Are you saying the Saudi puppet Hadi is not a dictator? 2011-2015 was literally failed state dictatorship.
>>56610034
He planned a very complex coup against one of the US and the UK's most important allies in Africa and the middle east, expelled their military bases and nationalized the country's oil and survived a ton of coup's plotted against him
He was well read and even started his own governance form based on a mix of socialist state-capitalism and anarcho-syndicalism.
He also wrote some pretty good literature and was well spoken and could speak more than one language
>>56610184
He was "elected". I don't use the term dictator as a derogatory term anyways.
>>56610088
Honestly he seems to be fucking retarded : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muammar_Gaddafi#Personal_and_family_life
>In the 1970s and 1980s there were reports of his making sexual advances toward female reporters and members of his entourage.[316] After the civil war, more serious charges came to light. Annick Cojean, a journalist for Le Monde, wrote in her book, Gaddafi's Harem that Gaddafi had raped, tortured, performed urolagnia, and imprisoned hundreds or thousands of women, usually very young.[317] Another source—Libyan psychologist Seham Sergewa—reported that several of his female bodyguards claim to have been raped by Gaddafi and senior officials.[318] After the civil war, Luis Moreno Ocampo, prosecutor for the International Criminal Court, said there was evidence that Gaddafi told soldiers to rape women who had spoken out against his regime.[318] In 2011 Amnesty International questioned this and other claims used to justify NATO's war in Libya.[319]
>According to a Brazilian plastic surgeon, Gaddafi had been his patient in 1995.[321] The U.S. Central Intelligence Agency believed that Gaddafi had suffered from clinical depression, while the Israeli authorities claimed that he had been afflicted by epilepsy and hemorrhoids.[322] He was a fan of Beethoven, and said his favourite novels were Uncle Tom's Cabin, Roots, and Colin Wilson's The Outsider.[323] He was also a football enthusiast.[323]
>>56610204
Do you think the conspiracy of the Gold Dinar replacing the Petrol Dollar thus prompting Obama to publicly advocate for Gaddafi's death holds any merit?
>>56610230
This is what America means by Democracy for all btw
>>56610231
>taking advantage of position
>retarded
What? That seems perfectly rational. He could afford all those women and luxuries.
>>56610248
It's bullshit. We just hated the guy for historical reasons and saw a moment of weakness to take him out.
>>56610123
>American reading comprehension
I didn't say the Yemeni crisis was more complicated than Syria because it isn't. I said that it was fairly complicated AND to dumb down: there is no simple, easy to grasp, media-friendly narrative to be made on the conflict, which is why mid- and low-level journalists don't understand it and don't try to understand it.
I think that's a better explanation than just pro-americanism...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYY_ws6axKo
Why can't Arabs get along?
>>56610231
That's a nice bunch of claims
For one, that supposed Libyan psychologist claiming he raped his bodyguards has been on a roll always claiming whichever side is winning against Islamists is committing mass rapes, but never seems to provide anything resembling proof.
If asked for any, she says rape victims are too embarrassed/scared and not a single one from the insane figures (thousands) she shits out has come out, despite when normal rapes that don't serve her agenda happen, people always hear about it and it comes out. Only hers are well kept secrets, apparently.
Basically, after 2011 she had become a rape meme.
Literally, people make jokes, like if Qatar's national football team is beaten, people make a joke and say Sergewa reported that thousands have been raped by the winning team's hands. The joke is that she's working for Qatar which funds Islamists.
>>56610251
You think America deciding that democracy is for everyone is a positive thing? That seems very ethnocentric
>>56610248
Not Golden Dinar, but wanting a strong African currency and single market policy (with protectionism).
It must've further motivated the west, but they could've stopped all that easily without a crusade, so it's not an easy yes or no.
>>56610299
Or that sectarian wars don't interest westerners as they don't threaten them, but a struggle with Russia does.
>>56610299
No it isn't. That's bullshit. We had been reporting about Syria and Libya before Islamic terrorists ever showed up. It's pro-Americanism.
Did you not even see the propaganda in the Libya video you posted? Our media kept talking about "Freedom, Democracy, and Liberation" as images of Gaddafi being brutalized scrolled past the screen.
Yemen is the Forgotten War because it does not look good to report and does not get good ratings. Do you think Americans like hearing "American intelligence today helped Saudi warplanes bomb 50 civilians in Sanaa today" ?
Yemen has terrorists by the way. Notice that giant white region?
>>56610372
>Danish reading comprehension
I don't know if you're being ironic, or if you're genuinely too retarded to grasp his obvious irony...
>>56610418
You're right to some extent (barely anyone cared about the subtleties of ethnic tensions in Syria for example until the US started talking about genocide last week), but there was interest in Syria before the Russian involvement in Summer 2015. Gas attacks, war crimes, refugee crises, islamic terrorism etc. are catchy themes.
>>56610418
>sectarian war doesn't interest Americans
Lmao what is Iraq 2014-present. Our media constantly talks about how great our forces are doing restoring the government to power.
But we always talk about how it is a Shia government and "shia death squads" can't be allowed to secure sunni cities.
We call Iraq a sectarian civil war with the Sunni Awakening in June 2014 being a response to Shia favoritism.
>>56610353
Once upon a time arabs were all brothers and untied in one caliphate. Then one arab discovered oil. It all went downhill from there.
>>56610492
And Yemen has lost 3500 civilians in airstrikes??!?!?
Yemen had its government overthrown by rebels??
Yemen has literal AL QAEDA THE TERRORISTS WE STARTED THIS WHOLE CHARADE IN THE MIDDLEEAST OVER TAKING CONTROL OF MOST OF EASTERN YEMEN
Yemen is at least as bad as Syria was in 2011-2012. But I IN AMERICA haven't heard a report on the Yemen civil war since January when a Saudi strike killed 80 civilians.
>>56610418
How does Al-Qaeda conquering Eastern Yemen not concern Americans???
>>56610497
Iraq became its own attraction when you invaded it. If it was just a sectarian war without the whole guilt tripping and it being used by democrats and republicans to prove who fucked up more it wouldn't be so popular imo
>>56610500
kek Arabs fought the Ottomans and then quickly amongst each other before oil was discovered
>The Saudi intervention in Yemen is not being underreported
>>56610580
Alqaeda conquers many places all around the world. Have you often heard about Mali or Algerian mountains? Pakistan? Alqa'eda controlled a huge chunk of Pakistan until a relatively recent grand military campaign that probably also didn't make it on the news as much as Syria.
>>56610618
I don't know if you answered this, but what is your opinion on ISIS in general? I assume you are muslim so I'll ask, are they really fighting for this "holy cause"? Or do they have other motives as well?
>>56610618
Your hypothesis is bullshit.
I, an American, living in Washington DC, studying International Relations at the premier university for US foreign policy, know for a FACT the exact reason our government only talks about our operations in Iraq/Syria, and Russia's "destablizing" operations in Syria.
We are literally playing our media to take their eyes off and our people's eyes off our own meddling in Yemen.
This is so obvious to someone who has been in /k/ Middle East war threads since 2011. I guess I'm getting triggered. Apologies.
>>56610420
That's because the video I posted was in 2011, when there was still democratic idealism to be seen by the west saw in the arabic spring.
But when was the last time you heard the words "democracy", "liberation", or "freedom" in a report about US actions in Syria? These themes have lost traction in the American (and more generally western) pubic because we've seen that they are not so simple issues that call for complex and ind-depth responses.
Yemen is a "forgotten war" because it doesn't have the catchy tunes of the Syrian conflict.
The only one's that care about it are the leftist circles those who have a psychotic obsession with Saudi Arabia : they who interpret the Yemeni Crisis as a clear demonstration of the KSA's moral bankruptcy and use it to argue against an alliance with the country.
Hearing about wrongdoings of western militaries and intelligence agencies isn't inherently uninteresting to news outlets: think of all the reports on abuses and bombings in Afghanistan for example.
And I didn't say that Yemen has no terrorism, I only said that terrorism can't be used to build a simplified mental image of the conflict, while it can to some extent in Syria.
>>56610676
We heard enough about it in 2014.
The Pakistanis are our "strategic partners" according to our media.
>>56610681
If you're planning on having a semi-significant career in the International Relations trade, you should maybe get used to having more complex and less monolithic world views.
Diplomats get off on the idea that they're smarter than everyone else because they actually understand the complexities of the world, you should try to do that too :)
He was a close friend of Donald Trump. Trump even let him set up a tent on his lawn when everyone else refused to be anywhere near him
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/23/muammar-gaddafi-tent-trump-estate
>>56610701
Yemen has been bombed by us since 2001 to kill Al-Qaeda militants. Your inability to form terrorism narrative is bullshit. That's the only thing I hear about Yemen. I hear almost nothing about the Saudi Intervention in Yemen.
Also, are you seriously calling those who believe the Saudis are morally bankrupt and a plague on the world "hardcore leftistis"?
Fuck that. I hate the Saudi government and its Wahabbists allies. They are a stain on the face of the world and directly responsible for the spread of Islamic terror across the planet.
The fact my government supports them fully is evidence of the American government's moral bankruptcy as well.
>>56610678
I am an atheist.
My opinion is that they're a dying cry for the prominent idealistic philosophy that dominates the region in the face of growing pressure from science and technology.
It's like the frustration of a very religious person when you make a compelling argument against something he believes in.
>>56610681
Could be bro
I just can't see why the average American would interested in a war between Saudi Arabia and Houthis while I can see why they would be interested in Iraq and Syria, or even Libya when Hilary is almost president or after she becomes president.
>>56610760
You're completely wrong.
How do I have a monolithic view?
Yemen is the Forgotten War for a reason.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34211979
It's merely coincidence that America's allies are not reported on, but America's enemies are derided?
Your world view seems to be that of covering your eyes from the bad in this world, while believing conspiracy theories about your own government.
You know nothing about America's media. You do not live here. You do not understand how America's political community functions. You have a slanted view of our actions in the Middle-East.
Before you insult someone, look in the mirror.
>>56610815
Well how would you explain ISIS's success when compared to other terror organizations?
>>56610815
Islamists will run Libya for a long time to come.
The average American didn't care about Syria or Iraq in 2013-2014. We have had a media blackout on Libya since 2011. The only reason we care about Syria and Iraq is because it's all our media talks about in the region.
There's currently no mention of the situation in Afghanistan. Why? Why?
Because we are still there 15 years after we arrived. Because Obama promised we'd be out in 2014. Yet we are going to be there until 2018 or later.
>>56610920
Because the US is allies with Pakistan and Pakistan's intelligence group literally created the Taliban
And still give them shelter and training
It's no surprise that Osama was in Pakistan
>>56610959
This is kind of wrong, but essentially correct.
>>56610887
There has been a power gap in a region that's very radical on average, so the same old radicals found a breeding spot.
But this success isn't unprecedented. It happened in Saudi Arabia a century ago and in Afghanistan decades ago.
>>56611033
What's wrong about it?
If you read books or watch interviews by American officials that worked in Afghanistan, they all testify to how Musharraf allowed Taliban camps to operate in Pakistan.
The US essentially was trying to cut the branches rather than the root, which was Pakistan.
>>56610852
It's monolithic to say that americans don't report on what embarrasses them and do report on what makes them look god.
You're right I'm no expert on american media, nor am I an expert on the Syrian or Yemeni crises. In fact I'm not an expert on anything.
But it's precisely because I'm not an expert that I don't commit to a view that can only be false because it only goes in one way: of course there is a pro-american bias among american media, but to limit the issues of selective news coverage in international relations to questions of pro- or anti-americanism is obviously reductive.
My worldview is that I have no worldview because any worldview I might have can only be false because it is incomplete. I was trying to say that, not to insult you, and I apologize if I only managed to do the latter.
>>56607266
Hey Libya pal, can you contact me outside of 4chan like through e-mail or other communication mediums?
>>56606539
>>56605588
>>56605127
>>56602731
t. pidorahen
>>56610815
>I am an atheist.
Dropped. Nevermind. I want nothing to do with you.
>>56611092
Well Pakistan's intelligence power is supporting Taliban less and less the last few years.
>>56611147
I did not say that.
I am pointing out that there is a pro-America and American allies bias in US media. And it is fomented by our government. They report on the issues they want to report on, and barely mention if at all those they don't.
Our Executive Branch controls the flow of information.
That is why is there is so little reporting on Yemen in America compared to Britain. It is significant enough bias. I'm not saying it is the only reason, but it is the reason on top of all the others that has created this media bias.
You made me feel insulted. But I understand your meaning now. It's hard to tell via words.
I subscribe to no world-view that I can tell of. But I see bias when I see bias. I see a horrible Saudi government that is our ally. I see massive failure in America's foreign policy. I see the same war fervor from our government against Russia and China, that I saw against Iraq and Afghanistan in 2001-2003.
Btw, I'm a grad student. Not a undergrad.
>>56606942
If he was so cool why did you bomb Tripolis?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_United_States_bombing_of_Libya
>>56611297
"Our Executive Branch controls the flow of information."
That's what I mean when I say you have a monolithic worldview...
>>56611193
Sure, why not?
>>56611245
Are you mad I'm not a Muslim or that I didn't Islam to join Christianity?
>>56611052
And what do you predict will be the future of ISIS? Will it all just die out eventually from US bombings?
>>56611442
It will eventually die out even if it lasts decades. Look at the world and history. Theocracies don't tend to be future proof.
>>56611351
"Of our foreign policy." I should have pointed that out. Our media does not usually go out to those places and investigate. They mostly rely on the executive branch to provide information about our foreign policy and its outcomes.
This is literally the truth.
Now could you address the rest?
>>56611489
Haha and neither does liberalization, democracy, and world prosperity.
Since 2008 the whole world has slowed down dramatically and radicalized far more.
All we need is another economic crisis, or a good world war.
>>56611351
Btw, good talk. I don't want to end on bad feelings.
Your theory about Gaddafi is honestly scary. It seems likely as well. That's what is most scary.
Good thread.
>>56611315
Because he funded terrorists and blew up planes mid flight then gave the people he trained a hero's welcome when they got back home
the arab spring is a mistake
>>56611297
No one reports Yemen because it's not as entertaining as Syria or Iraq where you have a bunch of killers that act like saturday morning cartoon villains are running large parts of those countries
Gadaffi....he was just this guy you know
>>56600541
Never Forget.
Never Forgive.
Shillary will go to Detroit for what she did.
>>56600541
Gaddafi did nothing wrong
I heard this gentleman got fucked over by the french
Is it true?
