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You are currently reading a thread in /int/ - International
You are currently reading a thread in /int/ - International
Spanish speakers of /int/, I have a question for you. I was reading about the use of tú vs. usted, and while I have my own habit for how I use these, I read that in different Spanish-speaking countries there are different customs about when to use these and who with. For example I read that in Spain it's pretty widespread to call alot of people tu, and meanwhile Mexico is "more formal" and you can see the tu/usted hierarchy more easily, and in some countries people will use usted with their grandparents while others will use tu, etc.
IDK if what I just read is bullshit, so I thought I'd ask you guys, where do you live and what are your thoughts on when to use tu vs usted?
Other people whose langs have formal or informal grammatical forms can chime in if they want to.
CHICANO
>>55683629
I'm really not though
>Tu = close people like friends and family , informal
>Usted = formal, for strangers, talking to your boss at the job, talking to the authorities, etc
>>55683571
in Mexico "tú" (mind the diacritic, "tu" is possesive) is adressed to children, friends, close family (except the elders like your granny) and people your age who aren't a figure of authority.
"Usted" is used towards elders, teachers (even if they're you're age, at least I do), authorities, some call their parents "usted" but I find it weird
>>55684132
Is there any difference in the pronunciation between "tu" and "tú"?
el chicANO seniores
i'm surprisignly willing to explain so i won't just meme.
here we use "vos" for casual talk, "tú" is rarely used, "usted" is used in formal talk. that is español rioplatense, so only affects argentina and uruguay
as other guys said, other countries use "tú" for casual talk, and "usted" is formal everywhere.
>>55684161
slightly more emphasis on the "u" in "tú", as it always is when you have a diacritic
usted can be used in a very cheeky way, at least here in central mexico
kinda like brits use m8 when fighting againts each other
>>55684132
Oh, I'm aware about the diacritic. Sorry, I got lazy with typing. I learned Spanish here in California, generally from Mexicans and Chicanos. My habits with tú are similar to what you have described. I use usted all the time at work, I work in a store and I use it with the customers...But I often hear my coworkers using tú with customers seemingly regardless of age. So, that's one area I have found confusing. Except for customers who are kids or who are clearly around my age I always use usted.
As for what to use with my coworkers...Well, we generally talk in English, but I dunno what I would say if we spoke in Spanish. With almost everyone I would use tú but there is this one guy who is a bit older and I'm not sure how good of "friends" we are, I would wanna use usted with him. Not sure.
Didn't intend to make this thread about me but I guess it's still pretty much related to the topic question.
>>55684369
How older is he?
>>55684408
That's the problem, I can't tell haha. His hair isn't grey but he seems....middle aged?
>>55684424
Is he a superior to you?
>using tú
>not using vos
>>55684477
No, I'm actually his superior, but I'm in my 20's.
>>55684515
Well, if he isn't part of the elderly and isn't an authority you can tutearlo with all naturallity.
As a general rule: if an authority (regardless of age) = usted, if elder =usted (regardless of authority). If none of the above = tú
I used to call my Chicana english teacher usted because she was my teacher, she was barely 2 years older, I adress all of my classmates as tú because they're my classmates, even if some are 8 years older
>>55684515
just call him kouhai then
I've been learning French for over a year now, and I know that "tu" is used exclusively for familiar subjects while "vous" is used for both formal and plural subjects. From what I've read in this thread it seems like Spanish uses pronouns in a somewhat similar way (probably because it's also a Romance language) though usage varies depending on region. Kinda gives me hope that learning Spanish won't be too difficult if I already have a grasp of another Romance language
>>55684641
>. Kinda gives me hope that learning Spanish won't be too difficult if I already have a grasp of another Romance language
It isn't, just started french and it seems piss easy
In Chile
>tu
Someone with the same ground as you, friends, cousins, etc.
>usted
When someone has the higher ground or in formal situations. For example, you'd call your mother "usted", but your mother would call you "tu". Your should call your boss "usted", and your boss should call you "usted" too.
>>55684619
Hahahaha okay I will
>>55684589
Okey doke. I will try it out. I randomly used Spanish with him a while ago and he seemed to like it, now he keeps saying the word I used whenever the topic comes up lol.
>tfw english native but you wanna be part of the casual Spanish use at work
Yes there is difference between tu & tú: tu without accent refers possetion example: tu auto/your car. Now with tú means you, example: tú eres un heroe/you are a heroe
>>55684678
>you'd call your mother "usted"
do you guys really do this? oh wow
>>55684658
What would you say are the most difficult aspects to learn? Honest question because I haven't begun studying Spanish yet
>>55684710
Ya sé amigo pero gracias por tú respuesta.
*blasts reggaeton*
>>55684758
CHI
>>55684731
For you, I'm not sure if conjugation will be easier or harder. French has the same concept but it looks to me like the French conjugations are a bit more "hidden", it's like they all sound the same even if they're written slightly differently. Meanwhile Spanish's conjugations are very clear to distinguish which person you're talking about, which I personally prefer, but it seems like more things for you to memorize. I don't really know any French so apologies if my analysis was wrong.
The speed of speech, entonation and casual words or insults because every country has their own types
Ohh but actually I thought of something else that has confused me. If you get in a fight with someone, do you switch to using tú? Like some stranger you would have used usted with pisses you off and tries to fight, do you call him tú? I imagine not, since if Chile here >>55684678 calls his mom usted he's probably not going to switch it up on her...
>>55684731
Ser vs estar
Tener vs haber
Some cojugations may get pretty interesting
for example "tráemelos" in this case "traer" is the root word to bring "me" means to me", and "los" means (masculine) them, it is also an imperative meant to the second (informal) person.
In short, that word means "you (informal) bring those (masculine) things to me"
>>55684796
No, I think you have the right idea. French does indeed put a lot of emphasis on vowels and soft consonants, and rarely pronounces consonant endings. It creates a rather unique and "musical" (as one of my teachers described it) feeling to its rhythm, but it can definitely be difficult to adjust to
>>55684850
Yes, usted means you respect the person, tú implies you see him as an equal or lesser.
>>55684766
chivas
>>55684796
>For you
How hard would it be for a native Spanish speaker to learn banetalk like yours?
In Chile not eveybody treat their mothers tú unless could be maybe a stepmother or that kid or girl doesn't have respect towards the mom, yes if someone is angry the accent refers the responsable which is you and often followed with insults
>>55684945
It would be extremely difficult...
>>55684899
>>55684961
thanks for answering
the gaps in my Spanish knowledge are sometimes strange.
It is understandable, so it is the same for me when I learned English and then how to teach it and my worst enemy is the perfect future and its continous
It really depends on the country, and you'll go mad trying to learn the use for every single one.
Just use "usted" on the situations you'd call someone "sir" if you were talking english. People won't care if you're being too formal or too casual if they know you're not a native speaker
>>55685242
Thanks
It's more that I'm curious what people use in different countries, because like I said I came across that idea while reading. As for myself I use kind of the Mexican style mixed with American/awkward non-native speaker style.
>>55685304
Maybe ~50 years ago, most of the spanish speaking world was expected to be respectful with everyone older, even by a few years, but that died down and most people, even elders, prefer a more direct or casual chat with most everybody.
I tend to refer to everyone as "usted" until I know them. They always treat me a little nicer, especially if they're retail workers.
But it's only expected on big institutions with well defined ranks, like armed forces, politics, and maybe higher education, but even then some teachers and professors don't care about it
>>55685440
I see.
Yeah, I can tell that some people are slightly surprised when I am using usted with them. Like I said I use it with customers at work and I find that my coworkers are always using tú. I stick with usted and people are like "muy amable" every time and seem to be really happy about it or think it's cute I guess lol
>>55685141
>perfect future and its continuous
That actually does seem like a pain in the ass.
Let's get this started
It's absolutely stupid NOT to use vosotros
>>55685549
Do not try to create stupid divisions, please.
A language spoken by 420 (lmao) million people is bound to have many variants and it's natural and it's good
>>55685549
Habla como los monitos de la biblia jejejej
>>55685598
No but why'd you drop something that you can easily address multiple people with?
>>55685549
>tfw had to conjugate a bunch of verbs with vosotros on school for homework everyday, even when we never ever used it
>>55685657
>what is ustedes?
>>55685683
Why don't you just drop tú/vos when usted exists?
>>55685657
Because we do have one = ustedes
>>55685703
Tu/vos is informal, as seen above
>>55684694
>>tfw english native but you wanna be part of the casual Spanish use at work
this is actually how i became friends with the housekeepers in the hospital i work at
>>55685733
So is vosotros
>>55685779
No, vosotros is exactly the same as ustedes. There's no casual/formal distinction when talking to multiple people
>>55685779
Do not talk about things you are not completely sure
>>55685850
http://lema.rae.es/dpd/srv/search?id=jDHGqjjQZD6QSpsMYp
Number 4
>>55685850
>>55685779
Well, actually, the Vosotros was a casual way to refer to multiple people and Ustedes was the formal way. But the only place using Vosotros consistently is Spain, with it's 40 million people, the rest of the world doesn't use it.
And even then, the difference between those is starting to fade a little even on Spain
>>55685915
>En cambio, en todo el territorio americano y, dentro de España, en Andalucía occidental y Canarias, ustedes es la única forma empleada para referirse a varios interlocutores, tanto en el tratamiento formal como en el informal
>«Quiero hacerles un presente, expresión de nuestro cariño y simpatía por ustedes»
>>55686417
> Frente a tú y vos (→ tú y vos), el singular usted es la forma empleada en la norma culta de América y de España para el tratamiento formal; en el uso más generalizado, usted implica cierto distanciamiento, cortesía y formalidad: «Usted escriba su reclamación en un papel» (Leñero Mudanza [Méx. 1979]); «Ustedes perdonen. Soy el Oficial del Juzgado» (Suárez Dios [Esp. 1987]). El mismo valor presenta la forma de plural ustedes, frente a vosotros (→ vosotros), en la mayor parte de España: «Siéntense, se lo ruego. Ustedes no se conocen: el señor Germán Hernando, el señor Juan Antonio Molero» (Marsillach Ático [Esp. 1995]).
