Why doesn't America have a high speed rail system
this makes me fucking furious, I can either
>Spend shitloads driving and then crash in the crumbling overcongested highways
>Spend shitloads flying and be terrorized
>Go absolutely nowhere with public transport
Every other developed country has a well developed high speed rail system yet here we fucking are, locked to roads for no apparent reason
Is it because of the oil monopoly? I bet it's because of oil.
I Want High Speed Rail
the worst part is I live in Florida and we were SUPPOSED to get high speed rail until Rick "Special Interest" Scott vetoed the shit out of the bill that would've allowed it
>>52926906
because we privatized our rail corridors. Where it makes sense to have high speed lines, we can't, because cargo trains have to take priority on the tracks.
>>52926906
>i want the government to steal for me and then take that money and feed it into their friends who then give me kickbacks and after a handful of decades one shitty train to nowhere is made available to the public only after taxes are raised several times and the project is over budget by many multiples of the original estimate
>>52927031
Highspeed rail lines are profitable where they are implemented and alleviate road traffic.
>>52927061
no and no
>>52926906
high speed rail systems are memes
>>52927031
you're saying that as if they'd build the rail lines in the middle of buttfuck nowhere
>>52927163
you're a meme
>>52927195
>Fl*rida talking down to anybody
>>52927167
literally what the project in california is 400 miles of farmland is traversed by the rail based on the plans
>>52927213
don't you have some meth to smoke, pedro
>>52927228
I'm talking about in places like wyoming or kansas, where there's literally no reason to build high speed rail
>>52927159
Well, you would be wrong. Almost every highspeed rail line in Europe and Japan pays for itself.
>>52926906
>his country doesn't have a high-speed rail system
How third world can you be ?
Good year to you lads
>>52926906
Public transit may be shit for the rest of you、but it's GOAT on the east coast
>>52927261
I can see it now
shitloads of lobbying and television ads saying how bad high speed rail is for the environment and that you will die, god bless oil
>>52927333
Vancouver to Portland is getting upgraded. Slow as shit, but it's happening and it makes sense.
>>52927352
Cheap oil will do more to kill HSR in the USA than anything else. It's never been cheaper.
>Spend shitloads flying and be terrorized
You're an idiot and the reason terrorism is a problem.
>>52927381
artificially though
>>52927472
Is it really though? The world spent the last decade increasing production, especially the USA. We used to import 70 percent of Nigeria's oil production, now we don't import any.
>>52927261
well i'm factually correct, the project in california has already wasted a billion dollars and is guaranteed to be a financial disaster, but hey what the fuck do you care you're just a faggot hipster who thinks green energy is important
>>52927529
yes, specifically to tank Russia's economy (and it worked)
>>52927472
nope, there's plenty of oil it would be even cheaper if we could refine it faster
>>52926906
Train tracks are for freight not passengers.
>>52927546
When all is said and done HSR will increase property values throughout the corridor. You are taking about trillions in tax revenue increases over 30-50 years.
And that's california. I said HSR is financially solvent in Europe and Japan.
>>52926906
Because it would be useless in 90% of the country?
>>52927561
Uh no. We aren't that vindictive. There's just a general glut in the market because every politician in the USA ran on "Let's be oil independent" over the last 14 years.
Remember DRILL BABY DRILL! Well we did, and it had nothing to do with Russia.
>>52927600
We should have it in the NE, Cali coast and Pac-NW. Everywhere else? It's a waste.
>>52927600
so fuck the majority of the population centers that would benefit most just because it wouldn't work in the Rockies?
>>52927582
>increase property values throughout the corridor
top kek that's never going to happen it's a barren wasteland there's litearlly nothing there and there never will be
>>52927643
These morons think people want a nationwide HSR system when all anyone is advocating is a regional one.
>>52927660
>Making vast tracks of land usable as suburbs to major cities that are having a serious housing crisis/shortage.
Way to think short term.
>>52926906
Car companies lobbied the fuck out of transportation schemes during the early development of our transportation grid.
Companies literally fucked you in the ass and there is nothing you can do about it.
>>52927600
>MA so dense
>barely any MA posters here
why
>>52926906
Welcome to 2016
>>52927709
>Companies literally fucked you in the ass and there is nothing you can do about it.
top kek. most street cars were private orgs and the car companies >lobbied GOVERNMENT as you so aptly mentioned to fuck over other companies
and now you want the governemtn to not cuck you with corruption in this boondoggle. nice m8 well memed
>>52927031
>i want my tax money to go to roads for cars which generate almost no revenue
>>52926906
>step 1: stop being a fgt and move to NYC, a real city
wow that was hard
This better happen before I die.
>>52927919
>the purpose of the government is to take money from the people
t. cuck
>>52927689
ah yes the several hundred people who ride the train from kettleman city to LA will change the property value of the barren wastleand of king county
>>52927709
This right here the oil, car, and airline lobbies literally made it impossible by passing legislation to insure no long haul high speed rail would ever see the light of day. You were fucked before you were even born.
>>52927983
Don't know about your area, but there's an increasing number of roads being privatized and turned into toll roads.
>>52926906
It's because America is BIG
>>52928085
It's that way here in Dallas. I never drive on them unless I absolutely have to.
>>52927643
The NE of America looks like it's Euro level populated
>>52928178
All the more reason to have high speed rail. It's more efficient at moving large numbers of people around quickly than jets.
>>52927709
This old meme. Are you going to ignore the fact that the street car companies were running out of money in 1919
>government building new high speed trains from Glasgow to London
>will be able to get from manchester to London within an hour
>it won't be finished until 2030
reeeeeeeeeee
Hey Murrika.
You should have Japanese maglev.
Maglev is next generation highway railroad system.
If u have Japanese maglev, u don't need to have airport.
I'm guessing population is not dense enough for it to be profitable within a reasonable time frame
>LA to SF
>2 hours
>$40/ticket
>Musk == Jesus when?
>>52926906
because GM
>mfw it's better to drive to Florida from New York as trains and buses suck
>>52928734
wait why would you WANT to come here
>>52926906
It makes no economic sense to have HSR in America. Small and medium air carriers have captured that niche of the market that HSR caters to. Air carriers in USA can do that because of cut throat competition that other governments wouldn't allow in their country.
Americans are richer and value time and privacy differently. They would either pay and can afford to fly to their destination faster or do it themselves with their cars.
America has the best freight rail system in the world. They move goods cheaper across more land than anywhere else. Far better and profit use for rail corridors. Move goods not people more $$$.
Basically America is extra special snowflake when it comes to transportation. What makes good sense in other countries doesn't work in America. It's weird but interesting!
>>52928919
Flights are cheaper in Europe than they are in the USA. So that's a garbage argument.
HSR would work in certain regions of the USA. No one is advocating for a nationwide system. To deny that is to deny basic known facts.
When?
>>52928919
Flights are cheaper in the EU than domestic flights in the US lad.
>>52926906
Yeah I wouldn't mind it either.
Having to fucking drive everywhere is annoying as shit.
>>52926906
I don't, it would be complete shit and used exclusively by the poor like all public transport in the US.
No thanks.
But the important part of America (Boston to DC) does have high-speed rail.
There are parts where the infrastructure needs to be upgraded, and it will be upgraded because the states involved actually have wealthy, educated populations who don't just react with
>gubmint bad!
whenever anybody suggests doing something that may have a large social benefit.
>>52929081
The poors wouldn't be able to afford it. Tickets would be on par with airlines or only slightly cheaper. It's just a shit ton more convenient than air travel for short trips. Like NYC to DC etc.
>>52929081
>t. a flyover-american
>>52929181
Let me guess
You're from DC?
>>52929201
Most of the country lies on either the east or west coast.
Despite Amtrak being hugely successful in the Northeastern US, where millions of people use regional, state, and city rail systems every day, the federal government will never go for it because of yokels in the South and West who are lucky to have degrees from State College University Night School Extension for Adults Online, if anything.
>>52928298
England is literally just a big suburb of London
>>52929201
Nah, I'm from Massachusetts, where people use public transportation every day. It's only meme cities out West and in the South where terribly planned bus systems shuttle poor people from one part-time minimum wage job to the next
>>52929201
you from Idaho?
>>52927983
Your argument is shit. I hope you realize how retarded you sound. Our country has the worst infrastructure in the "1st" world. People like you keep it that way.
>>52928964
>Flights are cheaper in Europe than they are in the USA. So that's a garbage argument.
Lies. Even Europe says so. US is best price/luxury ratio except Germany. Germany is other extras special snowflake in world for many other reasons. Germany also very interesting when it comes to transportation. Both USA and Germany have different statistics than rest of world explained by cultural reasons. Basically USA and Germany are very weird places and that explains cost differences.
http://www.goeuro.com/transportation-price-index
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ximpim.t08.htm
>>52929218
Yea, my state included.
>>52929269
Well I supposed that would describe Richmond's public transport fairly well. Still don't see the need for rail systems in 2016, still would rather just drive or fly. Fund it yourselves.
>>52928085
>>52928190
Holy shit, that's embarrassing. You should be embarrassed. Why are Western and Southern Americans such plebs?
>>52926906
we have something called the lighrail here in the northwest
>>52929365
>mfw there is always somebody from the northwest who thinks that this really common thing that exists literally everywhere is particular to the northwest
>you now remember the terrorist on the french train stopped by american soldiers
>you now imagine be trapped on a train with a an islamic terrorist
>>52927031
Sounds like Brazil
>>52929313
you are so fucking pleb intellectually it is not use for me to talk to you. you should be kissing my feet you fucking zombie brained double digit iq faggot.
>>52929344
you're a complete faggot i can tell it's you this entire thread posting about how cool public transit is, what a fucking faggot you are
>>52929344
Embarrassing avoiding fees? Okay mister money bags.
>>52926906
you have cars and local adorable trains.
>>52929847
>Strawboss
>>52929913
sorry I don't know of him well.
>>52929327
Um, I can fly paris to Venice for 30 bucks one way.
I don't think there's a single flight in the USA that cheap.
>>52929327
you dumb motherfucker
>>http://www.examiner.com/article/3-reasons-why-europe-has-cheaper-airfares-than-the-us
Daily reminder even the half-assed version of Acela was enough to have several air shuttle carriers go out of business.
>>52926906
Every other developed country is at best 10% the size of the US. Texas is just about as big as France, but nowhere near as densely populated.
>>52927709
>corporations control the government!
>we need to give government more power to fight the corporations!
>>52929148
>he thinks "gubmint good!"
>>52930111
Their used to be really cheap flights when I was a kid 15 years ago. You could fly from San Diego to Phoenix for $65 on SouthWest. Local high speed rail would kick ass out west everything's so spread out.
what if the US hadn't torn up half of its rails?
>>52930753
I know people that actually commute from Houston to Dallas once or twice a week. It's a 3.5 hour drive. On your typical European high speed train it would be cut in half or more. There's talk of building just such a system actually.
http://www.texascentral.com/
>>52931117
>high speed rail
>anything beneficial or efficient
>in the land of Oil
lol
>>52929504
>Thalys
>"French train"
Come on, stop now
>>52927472
it was artificially high fucking idiot
>>52931117
Then you get there and are stuck on the fucking Metro
>>52926906
Because the USA are too vast. You cannot make a Boston-San Francisco by train, taking the airplane is more logical.
>>52931655
We shouldn't unless it can be proven to be cost effective. But there's no reason why you can't have one from San Diego to Seattle.
>>52927758
Vienna is Hungary
>>52931117
Then you are stuck following the train's schedule
why would you want trains when u have highways and very cheap fuel?
just get a non-retarded car thats not huge truck or SUV, manual gearbox and you should be able to save a lot.
>>52927031
So it's a corrupt government problem, not a public transport problem. You can ruin anything with government corruption, it's not an argument.
>>52926906
With that population density it won't be worth it.
It works in Japan, in heavily populated (but rich or at least not dirt poor) part of Asia, and the dense part of Europe. Where in USA would this be profittable? (more than low-cost airline that is)
Murican cities need good metros more than this. Maybe a good, semi-high speed train between large, densely populated coastal cities like SF-LA could work. Maybe
Also this totally won't work in most place in USA, like the Midwest. Not enough people going the same way to build trains instead of more highway.
Why are there a bunch of car company shills?
Welcome to the fight OP.
I've been part of the APTA as well as many other smaller institutions fighting for better public transit and inter-city rail travel. I've also sat on the CTA (Chicago Transit Authority) board of planners for a few years before I left for a different job and since then just done advocacy work and some light blogging. I'm not even going to bother going through this thread because I know the conservababies and idiots are just going to scream incoherent nonsense about MUH INDEPENDENCE MUHFUGGA, so I hope the more enlightened euros will combat them with real evidence.
Anyways sit back, get a coffee and relax, because it's going to be a long fucking ride. All the work we've done lobbying state and federal governments for years to change transportation funding and policy probably won't come to fruition until after we hit our 50's and 60's. Until then enjoy the NEC and the upcoming CAHSR.
It's weird how public travel is viewed as for poor people over there.
It costs a fucking fortune over here, much more than driving which makes sense I guess.
Having to manually driving yourself places at slow speeds then find parking isn't ideal..
>>52932932
Why do you think that manual gearbox is important?
>>52927061
If that was the case, someone in the US would already build them unless there are some bueraucratic obstacles and laws preventing it.
>>52933174
>enlightened euros
>>52933452
Well on average euros are far more educated than we are. That's simple fact.
>>52927031
You just effectively described how America came to be a car-dominated society from the city planning to sub-urbias and from the great plains to the inner cities.
>>52933496
>euros that have landed on the moon
>0
>european hollywood
>doesn't exist, euros have to watch based american films
>european relevance
>place of americans and chinese people to look at old buildings.
>>52933286
With the exception of Japan, none of them have recouped their capital costs, but once they're built, they're profitable.
>>52926906
Public transportation is literally for commies
we're red blooded Americans, fuck that shit
>>52933724
what does moon landing have to do with general level of education?
>>52933780
America won the cultural victory
>>52926906
We do you fucking memer, It's called Accella. The Southwestern chief also goes 90 MPH on stretches of its route.
>>52933793
stop avoiding the question
>>52933822
>speaking english
>drinking cokacola
>listening to rockandroll
>wearing jeans
you are a fish in the water of american culture
>>52933860
what do those things have to do with general level of education?
>>52933724
ther have been european rovers on the moon tho
>>52933793
>cultural victory
>euros sometimes eat MacDonald or watch a movie
>compared to americans speaking euro language, eating euro food, living under euro legal systems, practicing euro religions, celebrating euro holidays literally every hour of every day of their lives
>>52933900
It's like Americans came from Europe or something
>>52933724
>euros that have landed on the moon
>0
I'd say roughly half of NASA's workforce nowadays is Chinese and Indian. Same goes with most of silicon valley as well, heaps of chinks and Indians work at Apple, hell they probably even outnumber Americans.
>european hollywood
>doesn't exist, euros have to watch based american films
Meme, Hollywood is pretty diverse in the nationalities of it's actors living there, tons of Brits have careers in L.A.
>european relevance
>place of americans and chinese people to look at old buildings
Memes again, it may not have any economic or trade relevancy outside of the EU realm, but internationally Europe has a lot of foreign policy clout, what we refer to as "soft power."
>>52933742
Spending trillions on welfare to car and gas companies by building highways isn't communist? That's literally as communist as it gets. The idea of the interstate highway came from Germany's Autobahn built by,you guessed it, the National Socialist Workers Party.
>>52933900
>euro religions
Don't think that many American worship Thor or Zeus m8
>>52933900
>English
>euro language
>>52929706
Wow, someone's mad.
>the government's LITERALLY robbing me!
How is it you guys fund the police? Is it a €20 call out charge, then an hourly charge from there?
>>52933930
>chinese and indians born in america aren't american
>le white america meme
>mfw Americans lack the mental capacity to realise taxes are a good thing.
>>52929313
>Our country has the worst infrastructure in the "1st" world.
Tell me more about those trans-continental expansive highway networks and freight rail networks anon
>>52927031
Guess where the money comes from that enforces affirmative action and your mandatory feminism classes in universities?
>>52933224
>£2.70 for a one way over 10 miles.
Reeeeeeeeeee, fugging stagecoach! They think bunking it up 10p a day without telling anyone goes unnoticed?!?!
>>52933780
If you have to ask this you're a flyover third world cunt
>>52933224
>It costs a fucking fortune over here
But we privatised loads of it, it should cost less right? Right?
>>52933993
COMMUNISM MUST BE ELIMINATED AT ALL COST
YOU WILL SURRENDER TO DEMOCRACY OR BE TERMINATED
>>52933973
I'm talking actual Chinks and Indians on working visas. They make up quite a large part of San Fran's population and they are part of the reason why it's so expensive to live there.
http://foreign-employment.findthedata.com/l/2751/Apple-Inc
>>52933993
Taxes aren't a goal in themselves. They have to be utilized effectively which often isn't the case in modern western countries. The useless crap our governments throw tax money out of the window for is frightening. I wouldn't mind our tax rates if they were put to good use, but right now it's unacceptable.
public transit here is alright, just wish they'd follow their own schedule
>>52933224
It's the goddamn American car culture man. If you don't own a car you must be a loser right?
>>52934037
You landed on the moon because you didn't need to spend all your money rebuilding your entire country. Every other country equally capable had different priorities. After you guys went and found dust, no one else saw the point.
>>52933742
Did you take the school bus to school when you were a kid? Guess what you took public transportation.
>>52934002
>Tell me more about those trans-continental expansive highway networks
>>52933174 here I can't tell you much about the highway network but if my former colleagues from ILDOT and CDOT are correct the interstate is essentially in a break or make moment, the highway trust fund simply can't keep up with the hundreds of billions in deffered maintenance backlogs due to the refusal of congress to raise the gas tax. The recent 5 year surface transit authorization bill (the first sine the previous expire in 09) proves just how dire it is right now.
As for freight rail, as someone who did some consulting and lobbying when ILDOT announced a new "high" speed rail corridor between St. Louis and Chicago, the condition of the tracks barely supported the 70mph service and required over $1Bln in upgrade to tracks and grade crossingsto bring it to 110mph service (something that's required in just about all of Europe for their service they provide). If the infrastructure we have in Illinois is anything like it is in the rest of the country, I damn sure know we have system that even Bulgaria would be ashamed of. Just because we have such an expansive system doesn't mean it's actually any good. In just about all measures we pretty much have a system comparable to India, which doesn't exactly have a sexy tone to it.
>>52926906
Buy a car you broke ass piece of shit.
t. Michigander
>>52933036
Totally agree America is too big and spread out for a nationwide coast to coast high speed rail system. There are good reasons to have it between major cities like LA to SF however. It would cut down on freeway traffic for one and as a side effect cut down on air pollution.
>>52934270
>crumbling 70 mph highways
>crumbling 70 mph rails
>The United Slows of America
Mfw the short local line (about 150km) I use to visit my parents is going to be shut down for passenger train this year or so. Guess it's a big win for the bus companies (who just happened to get far freer hands to operate wink wink) who are going to take in all the people who used to use the train.
Good thing I at least managed to use the train for free (worth 150€) as a fuck you to VR since they've gotten rid of train conductors and only have random inspectors to see if you got ticket (and the inspector never is on when I ride back from my parents).
>an American needs bullet train
why? you should need freight trains first.
>>52927330
our freight system is shit tho
>>52927975
looks like a big duck
>being literally terrified of a choo choo
>>52934333
I don't think anyone has ever advocated for a trans continental high speed rail line, what we have advocated is for better downtown to downtown intercity rail lines like what we have (in a more limited sense) in the Northeast. The NEC has been so successful for the most part that most airline companies have stoped doing flights along the coast. I've personally advocated for extending the current terminus of the NEC down to Atlanta through Raleigh and Charlotte. Having better rail service along the Gulf (NOLA to Miami and Houston), electrified high speed service between the PNW (Portland to Vancouver) and high speed service through the major cities in the midwest (St Louis to Minneapolis through Chicago and Milwaukee). Of course the demand is so high private rail companies like the Texas Central Railway and All Aboard Florida are stepping in to fill the gaps.
>>52934335
I agree
The only railroad the americans ever liked was the one enabling niggers, truly they are cucks with every cell of their body.
>>52934507
>railroad was the tell tale sign of progress and civilization in the wild west
>now Americans hate the trains as worse than communism
>>52926906
you are too young country
>tfw your country doesn't have musical trains
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDAut8Tlf7w
>>52933254
because the average automatic gearbox is by design less energy efficient than a manual one.
>>52934549
Freight trains have priority on the rail tracks and most people don't want or like public transit.
>>52926906
>Invest billions in "high speed train"
>19 hours waiting in 'security line' anyway.
What is the use? It would be a complete total waste of time. Faster to just drive wherever or go on the slow train anyway.
>>52932900
>>52931620
As opposed to being stuck in traffic jam?
http://inrix.com/scorecard/
>>52933036
Population density is a bullshit argument because population density is an average value. What's you average body temperature when your feet are in the freezer and your head is in the oven? What matters is the degree of urbanization. HSR commute between population centers.
The US has an urban population of 82.4%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization_by_country
Compare that to the large European states. That's higher than Germany, the UK, Spain or Italy. Only France has a higher degree of urbanization.
