Is this for real? Do Americlaps actually unironically think this about tipping?
t. danefag visiting american cousins for Christmas
>Americans unironically support the idea that customers should pay employee wages so the employer won't have to meet minimum wage
>To the point of shaming those that don't
>Servers in the US are paid $2 to $3 per hour
>Land of the "free"
See, we're not used to tipping because our countries don't allow slave labour.
>land of those that work for "free"
>>52600538
>tfw i used to be a waiter earning £250/week
>talking to an American waiter he gets $250/day because of tips
:(
ITT: Cheap cunts trying to justify their behavior .
>paying your employees so little, customers have to pay them actual salary
>shaming people who don't
brilliant business plan right here lads
>>52600538
>>52600419
Its offset by the fact that the tips they make aren't taxed. That and they make huge amounts of money if they're lucky (my friend made 500$ in one night).
It's honestly disgusting regardless because it encourages entitled behavior.
>>52600174
Some do, but generally it's assumed that if you didn't get a tip you did something wrong. And you don't act like a spoiled child if you don't get it.
>>52600174
>being free means working for free
Can we stop pretending that burgers belong in the civilized world?
>>52600678
That's Mason "Mason" Mason, the man that ignored the throw order, American hero against the judaism in The TI4 International 4 tournament of Dota 2.
>>52600735
Nah, tipping is a poor example of that. Especially when we have people who work for welfare benefits.
>>52600419
The consumer is always paying his wage. The employer isn't paying out of pocket, he has to push goods to get the income to pay his employees in the first place.
This just allows for a much more flexible pay schedule and really allows a better waiter-customer experience. It cuts the middle man out essentially.
>>52600174
Why the fuck are American restaurateurs allowed to bypass the federal law?
Greedy pieces of shit. Like it's not enough they employ illegal immigrants for a pittance
>When your employer doesnt pay you its okay
>When a random customer doesnt pay you its literally satan
Is tipping really necessary? I was in New York 3 years ago on a vacation and I never tipped in any of the restaurants I was in.
>>52600830
>It cuts the middle man out essentially.
Except you still pay for the food.
>a better waiter-customer experience
I don't consider a waiter spitting in my food because I didn't give him a big enough tip last time a good waiter-customer experience.
In non-tipping countries, the waiter does his job well because if he doesnt he gets fucking fired for not doing his job properly, not because he wants to squeeze money out of a guilty customer.
>>52600830
except the middle man exists for a reason and what's efficient in theory often fucks over the worker when put into practice
>>52600960
Im okay with qt waitresses spitting on my burgers
>>52600883
>>52600935
If an employee cannot make at least minimum wage via tips, his employee his required to pay him minimum wage.
>>52600939
It's not necessary, but we see it as a form of helping a struggling kid out. It's actually much more egalitarian than making everyone pay a static price. The rich can give a lot in a tip and the poor don't have to tip at all. It allows people to pay what they can instead of paying what the restaurant owner expects.
This is why food is so cheap here.
>>52600830
>This just allows for a much more flexible pay schedule and really allows a better waiter-customer experience. It cuts the middle man out essentially.
You can't make this shit up
>>52600960
But the food is so god damn cheap. It an incentive for people to pay more via tip.
>waiter spit in your food
This will never happen unless you do this consistently and act stingy and unhospitable as fuck all the time.
I don't get it. Why do non-American Westerners criticize us for being greedy? But then when we have an introduced that encourages giving and shames being stingy? You can't have fucking both. DO you want us to be greedy or giving?
>>52600830
It allows the Jewish owner to pay his employees less and hold his customers hostage with the ever-looming threat of infected saliva in their food, while servers often make many times more than the wage they claim to desire.
>>52601001
Well in the waiting world, this is efficient. I'm not saying this should be common place. But it helps out waiters a lot.
>>52601024
>hurr durr americans greedy
>gibmsdeat gibsmedat
Then you turn your head around and say:
>DURR WHY DO AMERIKKKANTS EXPECT ME TO PAY THEIR WAGE
>not realizing that by tipping you are actually paying more than what any wage can
It's non-shameful charity you fuckwit.
>>52600830
That stops being relevant when you stop talking about Uncle Joe's Diner and start talking about Applebee's, where the waiters are shit regardless of receiving tips.
Tipping allows small resturaunts to survive, it has no place in larger chains.
>>52601089
>for being greedy
We're not criticizing the waiter for wanting more money, we're criticizing the customer for willingly paying wages so the company that actually hired them won't have to, and for falling for this shame scam the companies have come up with
>>52601155
>It's non-shameful charity you fuckwit.
>his employees need charity to survive
YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP
>Blaming the customer
>Not telling your employer to pay you enough so you don't have rely on donations
>>52601090
You don't understand economics.
This isn't making the customer "hostage". What makes the customer a hostage is making him pay extraordinary prices for food, regardless of whether or not he has the money. By allowing the consumer to choose what he can pay and by having a culture that encourages tipping, you are essentially encouraging charitable acts to the kids waiting and busting their ass off through college or whatever.
>infected saliva
Dude, this never fucking happens. It's a fucking meme. You have to piss a waiter off a fucking lot for them to spit in your food. I've been a waiter too. It's nothing new.
>>52600830
>MFW tipless service in Japan is infinitely better than tipped Americlap "service"
rate the american christmas vs the danish christmas
Considering how much servers here make through tips, I'd say they'd be the first ones who'd be opposed to changing it.
>>52601282
What do Americans waiters do that non-tipped waiters don't?
>>52601244
I made 8 dollars an hour when I worked at TGIF and still got 200$+ in tips easily a night.
I'd work 3 days and have 700$ At the end of each week working 6 hour shifts.
Best job I ever had, too bad the manager was suck an ass and the customers were horrible people, I would have stayed otherwise.
>>52601435
>Making $700 a day
>still making images like OP
Absolute degeneracy
>>52601336
It takes a lot of patience and tolerance for bullshit when working with American patrons. Never had that problem with foreigners
>>52601282
>By allowing the consumer to choose what he can pay and by having a culture that encourages tipping
Except you're not allowing him to choose what he can pay. You're passive aggressively demanding that he tip some arbitrary amount based on some arbitrary measure of how good the service was. If you really wanted to allow him to choose, you'd include the tip in the price of the food, or introduce a rate based on the number of diners in the party or how long the party took to eat. You're letting the server decide what his service is worth, and forcing the customer to appease a complete stranger, rather than being upfront and honest with both of them.
>Dude, this never fucking happens
Oh, yes it fucking does. The threat of it, plus other "alterations" to the food, and bad service in general is enough to hold the customer hostage.
>>52601229
You think waiting is a productive job? You're moving food in and out of the kitchen. That's it. You're not building skyskrapers, you're not importing steel, you're not doing shit but bringing food out to people. It's a hustle and a hard job, but it's not very productive.
>>52601244
Okay, let me do the basic economics for you. Let's imagine two restaurants with identical food, atmosphere, and the only difference is that one tips while the other refuses tips and guarantees a wage.
Tip Restaurant:
>charges $6 for an entree and $3 for sides
>people of all social classes come in and out of this place
>the richer ones tip 50%
>the middle class ones tip 25%
>the lower class tips 10%
>and the poor tip nothing
Everyone gets to eat there.
Everyone gets fed.
Everyone is happy.
Depending on the distribution of rich poor et cetera, we can imagine a two tailed distribution where there is a 95% confidence factor that an employee will be paid 25% of all the food he ends up pushing out. So let's say that he ends up pushing about $1000 worth of food out in a day. His pay for that day is $250 via tips.
On top of this, the relationship between the consumer and server is much more friendly, engaging, and serves an economic purpose. Servers want to be friendly to their patrons and patrons want to help the servers out. Everything is hospitable.
Now the non-tip restaurant:
>since no one can tip (or feels obliged to tip) food prices must rise
>to meet the 95% confidence interval, all food must be raised 25% regardless
>the poor people can't eat there any longer
>nor the lower class
>only middle and upper and rich classes can eat here
>poor and lower class people don't get a good meal at a restaurant
>servers have no incentive to be nice or friendly to their patrons
>they only have the obligation to not be so disrespectful to the point where the customer leaves
Continued.
>>52601511
Maybe they're just on edge because their waiter keeps begging for money
>>52601542
>>and the poor tip nothing
Lets look at the OP, shall we?
>If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go out and eat
Whoa
>>52601523
>you're passive aggressively
But you can go into a restaurant, never tip, and you will always be welcomed. This happens a lot. Have you ever seen poor patrons? They never tip and nobody expects them because they're in rags and shit half the time. Do you go out? Do you ever wait?
>Oh, yes it fucking does
>because my news channel says so
It's news for a reason. Cite a study if you want to puppet that claim because anecdote doesn't help.
>>52600419
No, they do it because they're gommies :DD
>>52601542
>Now the non-tip restaurant:
Take a step out of America, you insular fuck.
I've been outside, the service is no different, or even *ghasp*, fucking better. And no, the best service I got was also one of the cheapest in terms of dining cost.
>>52601542
On top of all this, the server will never be surprised by a generous and happy patron. He will never expect anything less or more than what he already has. His income is static and his performance does not reflect this.
This means that lazy waiters are paid the same as hard waiters, and the hard waiters become lazy. Now the bosses have to chew out the waiters even harder if they slack and they feel no incentive to do better, since they won't get tipped. YOu may say they get wages, but these are sticky wages. Sticky wages drive economists insane.
>>52601600
Can you imagine a scenario where you can afford to eat but not afford to tip? Dude, 15% can ruin a budget. Sounds like you have this black and white vision of income. Do you know what indifference curves are? Jesus fuck, I hate talking economics on /int/ because everyone is an economic moron.
>>52601542
>>52601282
>>52601155
>>52601089
>>52601023
Dude I'm >>52601435, most of what you said is crap90% of the time. The quality of a waiter depends on how well they tolerate bullshit like changing your entire entree 20 minutes after you ordered it, sending food back because it had 1 slice of onion etc. Tips make the job bearable when you are making minimum wage working at mom and pops shithole diner.
>>52601562
It's more hints than actual begging. That would get you canned quickly.
>Maybe that's why they're so on edge
Oh man, I have some stories that'd make you think twice about ever becoming a waiter who doesn't make at least 200$ a night. I've seen some shit man.
>>52601672
I've lived in Israel and in England. The service is much shittier. Getting a meal in New Orleans can be one of the most enjoyable experiences of your life. Israelis fucking hate waiting. The English are considerably better, definitely better then the French. The French love to talk shit behind your back. I was with my wife (whom speaks French) and one of them actually said, after I had asked for some ketchup:
>This greedy american fuck wants blood bad
I did nothing to be provocative.
Anyways, this is all anecdote. It doesn't matter. Studies should be cited, not anecdotes.
>>52600174
>Tipped based on performance
>>52601542
>servers have no incentive to be nice or friendly to their patrons
Is there such a thing as "artificial niceness"? Like greeters at Walmart, who's only job is to be a living Have a nice day! sign? Or asking "How do you do?" when no one in the conversation actually gives a shit and an actual answer is a social no-no? Is it really better for everyone to force a smile so it looks like everyone's happy all time, rather than... just walk around and whatever?
>>52601756
>changing your entree every 20 minutes
This is a 1/20 thing. It's uncommon, but not rate. I'll agree that if a patron makes you put work in, you'll get mad. But you're not going to spit in his food. At least, not if you work anywhere good. Hell, one time I saw a waiter pepper a plate violently when he was urked and he got so much shit from our manager, that I thought he was going to get fired.
>>52601613
>But you can go into a restaurant, never tip, and you will always be welcomed.
By the owner. But the people taking your order and serving your food will resent you not paying them what they deem acceptable and treat you with contempt.
>They never tip and nobody expects them because they're in rags and shit half the time
I've seen poor patrons scowled at behind their backs, and treated visibly poorly by the waiting staff. Waiters don't want to do an acceptable job if they don't think they're getting what they "deserve" which inevitably differs from what the customers thinks they deserve, and causes this lunacy.
>because my news channel says so
Why wouldn't an irritated employee find someway to get back at the source of their irritation, especially if the chances of getting caught are slim and they get a jolly out of it? These folks are young and petty, they don't care about screwing you over if you don't scratch their back. And that's exactly what that image is saying.
>>52600538
Sweden has no minimum wage, fun fact.
And we don't have the problem because workers have spines.
>>52601896
>artificial niceness
All niceness is artificial. Every action you make is an inherently selfish one. Whether it's psychic or money income, you're always doing something that will make you feel better in some abstract way.
Even if we do something to satisfy our human desire to be moral, that is still selfish. You're never doing something for its own sake.
No one is a perfect Kantian.
>>52601926
>But the people taking your order and serving your food will resent you
There are a lot of bums in New Orleans. They come through the restaurants all the time. We never feel disdain for them.
I also waited in NYC and we usually extended sympathy. But NYC can be an entirely different ball game. Lots of fucking insane people up there. Economics doesn't work on the irrational.
>I've seen poor patrons scowled
Do you wait in a small town perhaps? Maybe I'm in disarray or I'm an anomaly, but when some nigger walked in on the street, we never looked down on him.
>>52600814
... What.
Explain this.
>>52600174
>>52600419
That's pretty communist.
>>52602127
That means hustling the system to get welfare. Filling out forms, going to government offices, lying your ass off. It's *work*.
>>52602127
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workfare
You don't get paid, you work in exchange for housing and food stamps
>>52602173
Seems pretty shit desu m8.
>>52600174
I don't know I've never tipped in my life
>>52602227
It's heart is in the right place:
>Ending welfare as an entitlement program;
>Requiring recipients to begin working after two years of receiving benefits;
>Placing a lifetime limit of five years on benefits paid by federal funds;
>Aiming to encourage two-parent families and discouraging out-of-wedlock births;
>Enhancing enforcement of child support
>Requiring state professional and occupational licenses to be withheld from undocumented immigrants.[24]
Except in reality they might as well get a real job.
>>52602094
>We never feel disdain for them.
>we never looked down on him.
This is really not indicative of the attitudes of most servers. It's not uncommon to plainly see hostility towards those who don't tip or are suspected of not tipping. If a server gets accustomed to making a certain amount per table/per hour in tips, he's gonna get pissed at customers who throw this off.
>Economics doesn't work on the irrational.
Irrationality is, unfortunately, part of human nature. Not everyone is going to subscribe to the same line of thinking, and many let their emotions control them.
>>52601709
If 15% ruins your budget then you shouldn't be eating at a fucking restaurant.
>>52601542
>servers have no incentive to be nice or friendly to their patrons
Yes they do you autistic fuck. Because tips actually mean something outside of the US. Also because you can still get your ass fired if your employer receives several complaints about how you work.
In the US your waiter can be a faget and he will still get tipped because it's custom. Futhermore he thinks he's ENTLITED to the tip so if you don't tip, he'll ruin the experience for you the next time you try and eat in the restaurant.
Outside of the US people who work hard get better tips because people don't tip 40% or 25% or whatever shitty percentage you think it's custom. People tip based on what the service felt like and if it was shit they won't tip at all.
>>52602620
Wow I'm amazed this never happens in the US, you've blown my mind and now I'll vote Sanders!!!
>>52602620
>In the US your waiter can be a faget and he will still get tipped because it's custom
If you act like a piece of shit you're not getting tipped
>>52601823
>Studies should be cited, not anecdotes.
>This study confirmed that tips are positively related to service, as most people believe, but that the relationship is so weak as to be meaningless. This suggests that while tips are a reward for service, they are not a good way to motivate servers, measure servers performance, or identify dissatisfied customers.
http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1110&context=articles
I've never tipped even once in my life.
>>52602726
If any of those involved in the study had ever worked a tip job they'd know that tip percentage means jack shit, and what really matters is the amount of time a group takes up vs the absolute value of the tip.
Here in the state of Nevada, they must receive minimum wage which is something like $8.50 an hour. On top of that they get tips.
Foreigners don't really understand just how much more money an individual makes when they get tips. I work in transportation in Las Vegas, and while I'm making $15 an hour I get taxed up the wazoo. Meanwhile the drivers are making $20 an hour IN TIPS on average. Cash, legally they have to write it on their tax report, but they usually write off only half or a quarter.
A friend who works at a golf course as a caddy will make my 1 week pay in 1 day, all in cash.
My sister who is a waitress makes $100 every Friday and Saturday night in tips. She works during peak hours for about 4 hours each day. All cash.
>>52600174
Tipping is something you do to reward good service, not to sustain mediocrity because their employer is a cheap piece of shit.
Service me well and I'l give you a tip. Fuck around and I won't. That simple.
>>52601542
>servers have no incentive to be nice or friendly to their patrons
Americans need to get paid to be normal people? Fuckin ameripsychos
>>52602994
When you have to be professional serving drunk deadbeats who curse at you, it wears in you after awhile.
>>52601823
>I find the Japanese system liberating. The price is the price, and if you are treated well it's not because you're expected to pay extra. "We [in America] are the ones who separate it out," White notes. The service I experienced in Japan wasn't simply a better version of what I find in the United States and Europe, it was the expression of a profoundly different understanding of what we consider "work."
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303456104579489824193262260
>>52600174
>You have the right to not have to pay out of pocket after having paid for "Cheaper" (Straight fucking lie meals.
>But you gotta say you're not gonna tip first so we can be slow with you and your food.
Fuck whoever wrote this. Im never tipping again, and I'll never tell them beforehand.
>>52603063
I guess I shouldn't hold your barely 1st world country to the same standard as mine people swearing and shit at staff would get thrown out here
Maybe you could just part with an extra dollar or two, enhance somebody else' day in doing so, and not be a loud-mouthed faggot about the issue.
Or not, whatever. Continue to behave like children if you want.
>>52601089
It doesn't matter that food is cheap if you have to pay extra anyway.
I am kind of on the fence about this.
On the one hand, I love eating out and recognize the shitty wages most servers are paid.
On the other, why the fuck should I have to give them a tip, especially if the service wasn't even that good? A tip should be given for stellar service, basically doing your job well. If you don't do that, don't complain about not getting a tip.
If I am essentially forced to pay your wages, I am only gonna do it if I thought the job you did was good enough.
>>52601089
>But the food is so god damn cheap.
>Red Robin burger: $10
>Cheesecake Factory salad: $10
Real cheap m8
>>52601289
This. There's no tipping in Japan and customers are always treated like gods, because restaurants value the customer and pay their employees at least the minimum wage.
>>52606478
Same here
You guys are just getting cucked like mad
Also this passive aggressive waiter culture holyshit. Makes me not want to go at all
>>52601289
There's also literally a guy standing anywhere there is a constructuon hazard with the sole job of warning people of the danger with a well kept uniform including a reflective vest, orange wand, and loudspeaker, and he's going at it hard core for what is probably minimum wage.
Completely different work culture.
>>52607380
Saw a lot of those guys when I lived there. Was pretty interesting.
>>52601289
Japanese are work obsessive though. You're comparing apples to oranges.
>>52607529
Compared to most European countries, Americans are rather work obsessive as well, though. I remember reading how in Sweden there's a minimum 5 weeks of vacation time per year, with 5 weeks being the absolute minimum, for example.
>For example, Americans still work nine full weeks (350 hours) longer than West Europeans do and paid vacation days across Western Europe are well above the US threshold. The French still have the 35 hour working week, while the hourly productivity is one of the highest in the world. On the other hand, in the US an increasing popularity of employment therapy suggests that a high-paying job still comes first, as job issues "have a huge mental health component," and therapists emphasize the importance of "toxic co-workers and the ramifications of massive layoffs."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tijana-milosevic/workaholism-america-europe_b_805975.html
>>52603530
I'm exaggerating dude, no need to be factious.
But it's true, you have a couple of shitheads that ruin your day
>>52600830
what are the social repercussions for not tipping
If I do not abide by the rules stated, will the waiter in question take legal action?
Tipping culture is bullshit. It's gotten to the point where people are afraid to not tip even if the service is below average.
