Tell me about the simplification of Chinese characters, /int/. How did they get it so wrong?
>>52542416
i dunno lol
don't look at the images themselves to guess the meaning because that's really illogical
it might seem as if the meaning is somehow lost with the simplification but it's not because Chinese is logograhic not pictographic okay noobcake
Some simplification is OK, but the PRC was too hardcore. Like the character 东 looks so unnatural. 東 is so much more natural
>simplification
But some of the new characters are actually harder to learn because they lost the simetry.
Can anyone recommend a good Chinese forum or site so I can extend my vocabulary and start to form sentences?
>>52542416
I thought they were in a hurry to invent signs easy enough to convert a lot of illiterate military officers to literate superficial elite.
>>52542416
Northern Chinese are literal mongoloids who don't know what they're doing most of the time.
Communist Party of China made to raise the literacy rate.
>>52542416
They should just mix Zhuyin with traditional characters
>>52542600
Fuck off, 日本鬼子. Japanese people are the imitators of Superior Chinese culture.
>>52542600
zhuyin is literally a roc invention
at the time the education ministry had 3 ideas use chinese strokes, use latin letters or use a new set of symbols, zhuyin was developed with chinese strokes and pinyin with latin letters
both came out of the same unification program
Simplified Characters are superior, they are easier to write, easier to learn, and easier to read. Bourgeoisie royalists can fuck off.
>>52542662
Exactly.
I have no problem with simplidfication. Our kanji are also somewhat simplified ones. Just for better understanding of one another, Japan should adopt mainland China's simplified characters.
>>52542703
>easier to learn
Not to me, traditional looks more logical. Less strokes doesn't necessarily mean easier, see >>52542507
hanzi is a meme script
asia needs to start using an alphabet and simplified chinese characters were only meant to be an intermediate step on the road to that
http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/moser.html
>>52542783
You retard. They have ugly characters.
爱してる。looks odd doesn't it? Love without a heart
>>52542703
>easier to write
Things like the i shape in 语 were already being used in handwriting anyway, so why couldn't they just keep the print form as 語 and write it using the Chinese equivalents of gyosho and sosho?
>>52542885
>looks more logical
Meaningless accusations
you have to ask yourself why 樂 is more "logical" than 乐, which also means music
what "more-ness" of "logic" separates the two characters?
>>52542964
Sorry mate, were not Romans. We don't use Latin. We have our own system
>>52542995
But it has friend instead ;)))
>>52543013
your loss
>>52543003
Symmetry.
is everyone in this thread chinese
>>52543104
Just started learning.
>>52543104
自分、日本人っす。
>>52543072
how about 昼 vs 晝
>>52543104
yes
>>52542416
both stupid and inefficient
they should convert to Pinyin or something similar.
>tfw no cyrillic in Hokkaido
>>52542964
>alphabet
Fuck off. Alphabets are soulless compared to based hanzi. Even using kana with it spoils it. It's also pretty cool to be able to write in one language/dialect and have someone else read it in another (albeit with things lost in translation).
>>52542964
Nah. Chinese characters have their perks. Through Chinese characters people speaking different languages can communicate with each other without an interpreter
>>52543154
These non-alphabet scripts delay learning actually important subjects.
>>52543154
It's still very inefficient...
By the way, you can understand another dialect, but you can't read it.
>>52542416
Student learning Mandarin here.
Blame the RoC when they fucked the Qing's shit up.
>>52543190
But 50 percent of school is useless anyway. Why do we read old books and learn questions to answers about these books that other have told us? Why do we learn in which ways rocks of glaciers can be removed? Nobody needs that except some experts.
>>52543271
actually some basic stuff is pretty messed up to
pvc is 聚氯乙烯
assembled chlorine 2nd alkene
I find that action movies from Hong Kong tend to have man to man friendship or bond as the themes. Do chinese people value this kind of things very much?
>>52542484
This
東 (east) = 木 (tree) + 日(sun)
東 (east) means where the sun rises through the trees.
东 ( too much simplifying 東)has already lost the heart of kanji.
>>52542459
Traditional characters can hint at pronunciation and meaning often. But it wasnt simplified 1:1 so you can't tell the meaning in simplified, we can read mainland Chinese but they cannotbread our Chinese
>>52543335
It is from the books they are made from which are a kind of modern rendition of the classic books
It is a romantic heroic notion, not based on reality
>>52543361
even evil mainlanders have to know some traditional
>>52543271
>But 50 percent of school is useless anyway.
And it will take you twice as long to realize it with an inefficient writing system.
>>52543394
We're also used to it from watching TV shows that are subtitled by China
>>52543190
>>52543409
And yet chinks do better at school anyway.
>>52543346
If you have chance to read printed documents of japan befoere the ww2, you'd notice that our kanji have changed a lot from then to now. I think that the recent sentiment of Japanese society to claim the traditionalism is just a representation of lack of confidence or self esteem.
>>52543146
Pinyin would be hilariously inefficient. Do you speak chinese?
>>52542416
English letters are efficient. Each letter is denominated by the fewest number of lines, and the simplest shapes. Thus, the letters are simple and efficient, while still being easily differentiated from each other.
English letters are quite simply....better. If you like fancy calligraphy, we have that too. But for everyday uses, drawing huge elaborate symbols for each letter or word is a waste of time.
In English, the letters are phonetic, that is, each individual letter is tied to a sound. These letters are modular, and easily mixed and matched in any desired combination to form any word or combination of words. You can invent new words on the fly. The language evolves, develops, and changes with the times.
Honestly, China needs to modernize. Their writing system is archaic and outcompeted in every possible way by the vastly superior European writing systems. It's like they are using Roman Numerals while everyone else is using Arabic Numerals. When something is clearly better, you'd be foolish to cling to the old ways out of tradition. (Riding around in a horsedrawn carriage while everyone else is driving cars)
>>52543394
Thanks. I like this kind of Hong Kong movies and prefer them than Samurai movies.
>>52543500
They would do even better.
>>52543669
I like both, samurai movies are all very anti-establishment while hk martial arts movies are very pro establishment
>>52543621
I don't speak Chinese but
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin_input_method
>However, since all children in Mainland China are required to learn pinyin in school, pinyin is in fact very popular there.
>>52543669
Please tell me you've seen the infernal affairs trilogy
>>52543812
pinyin itself cannot be used as language because it is ambiguous even with the tonal signs
>>52543527
Yes.
Japanese Toutoukanji lost a lot of the heart of kanji, too.
After WW2 we had got through the time of self-torture.
I know now we tried to get our self esteem, but I feel it's some kind of kimochiwarui.
>>52543843
They need to invent a new way of Latinization, then. It would look like Vietnamese letters, but at least be readable.
>>52543843
>cannot
>ambiguous
There is ambiguity in many languages and there are ways to overcome it if the context is not enough.
>>52543881
It's pointless because it is the nature of the language, a whole bunch of logograms but not as many sounds, mathematically it will always be like that no matter what system of pronunciation you use because of how the logographic language works
pinyin is a tool for standardization of pronunciation it works quite well. it is not meant to be read by itself it cannot do more than what it was meant to do
>>52543881
Too many words are the same in latin alphabet. Only kanjis can differenciate them.
>>52543973
That implies verbal communication is impossible which is absurd.
>latin alphabet
can be augmented with tonal marks
>>52543964
it would destroy the nature of the language
written chinese is not ambiguous
the poetic forms comes from the conflict between the non-ambiguity of the characters vs the limited pronunciation
>>52543720
You mean look like a mess?
>>52543967
This is absurd. Language is primarily *spoken*. If you can capture the pronunciation (including tone) you should be able to convey the same message.
>>52544025
>it would destroy the nature of the language
I was concerned with kids learning science and math (which does have word problems) as fast as possible and such itt.
>>52543973
>Too many words are the same in latin alphabet
Can you can a can opener can without a can in the can?
As you can see, this is true for every language.
>>52544052
Chinese is not a primary "spoken" language.
It was a written one. The most basic ideas of Chinese culture was passed "written-ly" not orally
Keep your eurocentrism in europe pls
>>52543194
What do you mean? I can understand written Chinese by mandarin and hokkien speakers just as easily.
>>52543879
>>52543527
how bad is the whole self esteem thing in jap land?
suicide rate is really high and american approval rate has dropped to like 60%. meanwhile you guys keep trying to re-militarize. why the sudden need to re-militarize? there so many american bases theres no need to fear of an invasion.
>>52544077
it only makes translation and localization difficult since the scientists have to relearn names but the math and science itself is the same difficulty in any language
>>52544096
>Chinese is not a primary "spoken" language.
That's not my concern. I would let written Chinese die if it meant that learning "useful" subjects other than poetry could be more efficient.
>>52544139
Pls
>>52544133
You make sound like there are no chinese scientist
>>52544159
>Pls
t. poet
>>52544224
basically it is easier for a westerner to do science in another country then for any east asian to do science in another country not just a chinese problem
pls
>>52544272
Chinese science or math lecturers or teachers speak Mandarin or Cantonese to their students and I bet they already have standardized or de facto standard way of pronouncing science or math words.
>>52544321
That's not the point
There are international scientific academies and scientists from all over the world have to be a part of it so when the spanish scientist have to write up a paper in english that's a bit easier for him than say for a chinese or even a japanese scientist because their terms are entirely derived backwards from their historical scientific knowledge to fit the westernized science
not only that but their own terms are not compatible with the english/latin/greek terms so they have to learn the same name twice
