>open a bible
>get to page 3
>talking snake
Wtf guys do you really believe a snake can, a). talk, b). is more intelligent than people, c.)has a malicious will of its own?The bible is a fairy tale, obv snakes do not talk
>>52527593
Don't forget that they thought snakes once had legs.
I have a legit question: From where does the snake come from? Shouldn't Adam and Eve be the only sentient beings at that time? And why the fuck would God create that evil snake?
>>52527697
iirc that snake is satan or something
If God is the most powerful being and can do anything, can he create someone more powerful than him?
>>52527828
>God makes a woman
>she fucks things up
Every time!
>>52527697
>From where does the snake come from? Shouldn't Adam and Eve be the only sentient beings at that time?
No, they were the last thing he created.
>>52527697
the world is 6000 years old that's why evolution is really fast.
>>52527697
>>52527828
If God's all-powerful, why did he let Satan get away with shit instead of smashing his shit in?
Some things just don't make sense.
>tree of good and evil
>>52527593
Genesis is a myth according to the catholic church and I trust them.
>>52527999
But why would he create that snake? Didn't God create everything there is? So, how could God create something that has evil inside it? Doesn't that mean that God created evil?
Or can the Devil create life too?
>>52528178
If God created everything, he created the Devil
>>52528198
Lmao I got that too
>>52527593
dude snake were here before us
they own this clay but we just had more legs because god that was cool and now we rule the fucking world man
>>52527697
Ask your priest
>>52528063
Go away Zarathustra.
>>52528266
duuude
>>52528198
>>52528305
SNAKES
>>52528178
Evil doesn't actually exist.
Evil is a state achieved when one rejects Good (God) and acts in defiance. If we assume that that character is Satan in the guise of a snake, he is evil because he exercised his free will to defy God, like Adam and Eve later does.
>>52528266
* thought lmao xD
>>52527593
>doing a literal interpretation of the bible
also
>>>/his/
>>52527593
>>52527593
Tip your fedora a little harder please. There's no scientific proof that snakes can't talk. Maybe they just don't want to talk.
no but women are insane and they will do ANYTHING to get what they want
so she started to "hear" the snake
and told adam too what she was hearing
being the avarage male, he wanted to please her and acted along
(otherwise no pussy for a decade)
>>52527593
The story of Adam and Eve is an allegory for human nature.
Eve is tempted by satan (natural temptations and hedonistic desires) to disobey God (One who established harmony between the earth and Adam and eve). Eve disobeys God, and then convinces Adam to do the same (women are temptresses to men). As a result of disobeying God, they are banished from eden (temptations and desires are unfulfilling and damaging).
This ties in to the view of world by Christianity and Buddhism. The world is riddled with temptations and hedonistic desires that are unfulfilling and harmful. To abstain from these desires is to separate yourself from the world (monasticism), thus achieving Salvation or Nirvana. Completely giving in to these desires and being addicted to such a lifestyle is Hell.
These are incredibly simple concepts. One must have autism if they cannot interpret these things.
>>52528344
Shit, that's a good explanation.
So, to christians, everyone who doesn't believe in God is inherently evil?
>>52528480
again women are insane and evil
even religion says so
>>52527754
yes, the snake is satan
of course, atheists read the Bible like it's a fucking children's book and not the word of God, so they have to autism all over it
>>52527593
>i take rich cultural works at face value
>tfw fundamentalist christians and fedora-tier atheists have the same shitty interpretation skills
>I worship a jewish warlord named yahweh
>>52528446
>Tip your fedora a little harder please. There's no scientific proof that snakes can't talk. Maybe they just don't want to talk.
b8ageddon
>>52528491
Not so much evil as obscured by darkness.
One isn't evil until one knowingly defies the word of God, like Adam and Eve did. Defying God's direct command and eating from the tree of knowledge was evil, but they do not become evil then, just separated from their true, Good state in God.
>>52528434
>exposure warning
brb getting copy of the bible
>>52528491
In a sense, they have an inherent evil (original sin) that is not redeemed by God's covenants
>>52528617
>I worship some blonde hair,hammer wielding faggot
>>52528583
The fact that /int/ and /pol/ exist is enough to prove that God doesn't exist
>>52528545
I only said they are temptresses.
They have a naturally superior ability when it comes to convincing others.
>>52527593
That is not what it is about. The human development of vision (eyes have opened) and intelligence had a lot to do with snakes.
Humans have incredible vision because our ancestors were hunted by snakes.
The consciousness came partly from dealing with snakes. You needed tools and fire and cooperation to deal with them. And that got you laid, hence the woman.
>>52528812
thats a very nice way to say they get what they want because they have a pussy
>>52528846
The fuck are you on about, we didn't have any dangerous snakes hunting us.
>>52528846
>Humans have incredible vision because our ancestors were hunted by snakes.
Please stop posting finn, you've been trolling for too long.
>>52528224
>>52528178
God didn't create devil or the evil snake.
Lucifer was god's brother but he deserted to do bad instead.
God created all living beings. Lucifer took control of the snake.
God didn't intervene because he isn't a fascist fuck. He let thing roll out and every single person to decide who to follow. That's all in his plans. God will reward those who follow him by helping him rebuild the world to come.
>>52528846
Something about the shitposting in this boards amazes me
>>52528668
>One isn't evil until one knowingly defies the word of God, like Adam and Eve did
>Defying God's direct command and eating from the tree of knowledge was evil, but they do not become evil then, just separated from their true, Good state in God.
So when does one become evil? To me it seems that Adam and Eve knowingly defied directly the word of God, isn't that what you just said that qualifies someone as evil?
Also, i'm curious, is a man who believes in God, goes to church, prays everynight, etc. but is a complete asshole and arrogant prick considered "good" just because he believes in God? And is a man who doesn't believe in God but is otherwise a compassionate, kind person, considered evil just because he doesn't believe in God?
>>52529152
Where did Lucifer come from?
In the beginning wasn't there only god?
>>52528846
>>52529258
This gets into a meta field where I don't know anything. But it is supposed that it is a cycle. Some can become gods, while the righteous can become angels or something.
>>52527593
IN the bible , Jonas the fisher is trapped in a whale, is this a sublime reference to men beeing trapped while fucking fat bitches when she is upon someone?
>>52529220
Defying him was an evil act, but they themselves do not become evil, but they are no longer perfect and Good.
The former depends a bit on the denomination, but commonly, one would then act wretched and not be a true believer, a true follower of Christ must necessarily act in accordance with the word of God.
The latter is of course not evil, but he is lost.
>>52529258
btw, Lucifer is an angel not a god*
>>52529152
>God didn't intervene because he isn't a fascist fuck. He let thing roll out and every single person to decide who to follow. That's all in his plans. God will reward those who follow him by helping him rebuild the world to come.
I know that this image is le-fedora-reddit-tier, but isn't it correct? Why would he let evil exist and let people suffer throughout history if he truly wishes good for us?
>>52529402
Hm, i see. You're actually the first christian to give satisfying answers to my questions, thanks
>>52529372
>But it is supposed that it is a cycle
Not by any credible CHRISTIAN theologians it's not.
Though the character of Lucifer, Satan, The Devil, The Serpent, The rule of demons, the god of this world etc. is a rather complicated subject, especially as a lot of it is muddled by medieval demonology/angelology and apocrypha.
>>52528868
Well also because their voices are more soft and calming.
Hence why ASMR is dominated by females.
>>52529513
Because life on this world is just a test, it is temporary, it is physical, we have desires and obstacles, we have to prove that we are righteous of being heirs of a pure world.
God wishes good for us in the afterlife, after we die our spirits continue existing.
>>52529564
Well, that's only my interpretation from two different Abrahamic gospels.
My dad once told me that god was never born nor will ever die. I can't expand on that though however.
>>52527697
Instead of "From where" you can use "Whence".
Atenciosamente, English student.
>>52529978
That's archaic mayne
>>52529978
>Whence
wew lad
Never had heard of it
>>52529978
Thanks but Whence sounds too formal for 4chan Tbh
>>52529978
what the fuck
>>52527593
B-BUT ANYTHING THE BIBLE SAYS HAS TO BE INTERPRETED
>>52529978
>English student
>>52529975
>My dad once told me that god was never born nor will ever die.
That's a given from what we know from the Bible, there can be nothing without God.
However, the point about cyclical time is a notion adopted by certain gnostic sects in the early days of Christianity, probably derived from contact with pagan ideas or even Hindu. In a biblical sense however, time is linear up until the last day, at which point time will cease to exist.
>>52527593
IT'S A MYTH, YOU DIP
>>52529513
>this fucking meme epicurus again
There's this thing that He gave us called choice.
Wait is this one of those stories they take literally? I thought it was considered "symbolic" or some shit now
he's speaking like in the fucking bible >>52529978
>>52530433
there is no god except God, and Jesus is his son
>>52528063
Well if there isn't evil there can't be good.
These two concepts are inherent to the human nature.
God didn't create good and evil. Sentience did.
>>52530388
If you have a 5 year old son who wants to eat a poisonous frog he found in the backyard, would you let him do it because it's his choice?
Also, not every bad thing that happens to us is caused by choice. It's not some african guy's choice if he gets fucking Malaria, it's not my choice if i get cancer, it's not some american guy's choice if a tornado destroys his city. Why would a benevolent God let so many suffer?
>>52527593
The snake is not real.
Hazal said that the snake is a part of the woman, just in her imagination, her bad side.
Also, the snake may be just a symbol for all that is wrong in the world, a negative force, satan even.
Anyways, the snake in Genesis isn't supposed to be an actual animal but just the little evil in the perfect garden that makes man sin.
>>52527593
unlike later interpretations, say the quran, the bible was never meant to be taken literary. it is because of our sensual pleasure we cannot enjoy the true heaven -- snake is just a metaphor, and not a subtle one, regarding our fucking.
kingdom of god comes with surpassing the temptation of flesh. this is why son the god will preside over the end of days.
>>52527828
Well maybe he did.
I mean, our god could very well be the product of an other god.
>>52527828
the question is meaningless, as god the father is all its creation, not an entity on its own like you and me. god the father sent god the son to take on our sins because of us, not the other way around. and god the holy spirit we see in the apostolic works, but not only -- we see in all our godly deeds -- whenever we surpass this vale of tears by being more angelic than animalistic.
who /Tengri/ here?
Tengrism (and all other variations of Turkic/Mongolic animism and shamanism) are quite interesting actually. Probably the most interesting of all pagan religions.
>>52530918
do you really know anything about the message of christ tho? i m not denigrating your choice, i m asking?
>>52530764
>the bible was never meant to be taken literary
This is why everyone calls modern Christianity watered down you know. Because you say shit like this when clearly the older Christians and Jews did take it literally, and only now due to evidence to the contrary to the Christian account does the literal->metaphorical shift occur
>>52530604
> why would a benevolent god let anybody suffer?
You can't have good without evil.
Yin and yang and shit.
I mean God might let people suffer but the opposite is true.
God lets people be happy, fuck, eat, be nice to each other etc...
>>52530282
Neiß, now I understand.
why doesn't God just give us proof of his existence, then we would all believe in him
>>52531087
That would be too easy
>>52530969
I'm not seriously a Tengrist, like I said I just think that it's the most interesting of all pagan religions. Like all pagan religions, Tengrism has too much of a spacial and cultural bias (i.e. people who are shamans are born shamans...but literally the only shamans all happen to be born in Mongolia/Siberia for some reason), so I could never seriously believe in Tengrism or any pagan religion.
As for Christianity, I'm partially familiar. I think Roman Catholicism has very interesting theology actually (I don't know enough about any of the Orthodox Churches to really judge those), and in general Christianity has a good "message" to it. However based on your other posts you seem to be quite a bit more informed than I am.
I'm not a Christian though, the reason may appear very stupid or simple, but even though "logically" I think the existence of a deity makes more sense to me, I can't bring myself to really truly believe in one at an emotional level. Basically, I can't convince myself to have faith. I think it's because my entire life growing up I never had any kind of religious exposure, and so it's very hard for me to simply acquire faith.
>>52531034
friend, that's simply not true. there are four whats called synoptic gospels exactly because no human word is to be taken literary, and we learn from each one something different.
>>52531087
The universe hardly makes sense why wouldn't god have cognitive dissonance
Why does Hell exist? Can't people change? I think that eternal damnation is a bit too extreme and "evil" coming from God
Are you there, God? It's me, Anon. I've been a real gud boi this year. Please give me a nice gf. Yours truly, Anon.
It's a collection of parables m8 you aren't supposed to take it literally.
>>52530604
>If you have a 5 year old son who wants to eat a poisonous frog he found in the backyard, would you let him do it because it's his choice?
No of course not. But you cannot compare a 5 year old who does not know what he is doing, to someone who should know what is right and wrong.
>Why would a benevolent God let so many suffer?
There is evil for a reason.
If there is truly no evil, how can one ever appreciate His love for us? Living an easy life without evil would definitely make the whole human populace complacent, and as such will never learn any virtues (is there such a thing as honesty without dishonesty?).
As a whole, even I cannot understand Him completely. There is a good reason for every evil that happens in the world. Keep in mind that a benevolent God does not mean absolutely no evil. Christianity doesn't teach this.
>>52531286
Thieves, murderers, non-believers, rapers, liars, etc need to suffer eternally.
No less amount of suffering would compensate what he did in 30~50 years
If god existed I would have a gf by now. Fuck that guy.
>>52527593
The snake is satan, possibly in animal form. But you knew that already, didn't you, troll?
>>52531087
If God and Heaven were real, why would you make it that easy to get into?
>>52531206
look, for me its simple -- I know you have a good idea of what's right and what's wrong. This didn't simply spring out of nowhere, but it's actually a part of a very long tradition. Rationalism, and Englightment were born out of various Christian traditions, and that's a simple historical fact.
I don't deny the theory of evolution, but I speak from personal experience that transcending our sorrowful existence here does not mean denying our humanity -- the way extermination camp guard were expected to deny their humanity by sending kids to death. it is the opposite, and this amazing experience is how i perceive the holy ghost, far be it from me to assume it came to me.
Do Christians not think that it's a bit dodgy that literally the first story in the bible is a tale telling you that if you seek knowledge that the church forbids you from seeking (god forbidding eating from the tree of knowledge) that you're fucked and a horrible Christian?
I know it's a metaphor but it's a metaphor meant to keep people not questioning anything, way too fishy for me to read on desu
>>52531542
read the thread, that's not what the metaphor is about
>be the only man in the world
>know everything there is about the universe
>all your animal bros bow down to your feet
>extraterrestrials pay you tribute
>jack off to cave drawings
>suddenly God decides to be a dick and give you 3DPD
>Paradise of Eden becomes a shithole
>this god expects you to worship him
The idea of heaven and hell that abrahamic religions have is flawed. What about stillborn children? Would they go to heaven? If original sin is a thing, then they'd be sent straight to hell before they had a chance to redeem themselves.
And if they did get sent to heaven, then surely someone could go around killing newly-born babies and send them straight to heaven. Since he is sending them to heaven, does that mean that he is actually doing them a favour in the long-run?
Even re-incarnation makes more sense: you keep getting reborn until you get it right.
>>52531464
Why not? Why send good people to hell just because they don't believe you exist?
>>52531597
My point wasn't that it was a literal true story, my point was that it was a very transparent attempt to tell people that if they sought forbidden knowledge (for example anything that disagrees with god's word) they would become unhappy and be punished by god
Religion was a pretty clever way to keep the peasents in line and the bible is seemingly very open about it
>>52531783
>implying peasants could read the bible
The bible wasn't translated for a really long time
>>52531745
By the Bible's definition, if you don't believe in God then you're a "bad" person. I'm personally not Christian so I don't believe this, but it's an answer to your question.
>>52531783
that's not the point of the metaphor though
>>52531365
M8 everything in your post makes me believe you haven't seen people suffering in real life. Also, i'm talking more about God letting suffering exist than """evil""".
>If there is truly no evil, how can one ever appreciate His love for us?
There are kids getting raped right now. That's evil, God lets it happen. How does 6 years old who have absolutely no guilt getting raped makes us realise how he loves us?
>Living an easy life without evil would definitely make the whole human populace complacent, and as such will never learn any virtues (is there such a thing as honesty without dishonesty?).
Wouldn't it be "more good" from his part if he just didn't make us able to be dishonest? You're implying that humans are flawed creatures so we need to suffer so we can improve ourselves, but why would God make us that way? Wouldn't making us unable to sin be way better?
Also, the example i gave before serves here too. What virtues would a child who was raped learn? How could having a worm in your eye make you "improve"? As i see it, suffering usually leads to nothing. There's not even a lesson to be learned in most cases, shit happens, there's nothing people can do about it, and they suffer. I don't see how the existence of suffering and evil by God can be justified, it doesn't make sense
>>52531843
>implying peasants don't still exist
People used to go to church every week to be told the stories so it doesn't change anything, makes it worse in a sense because they couldn't even read through it to check for contradictions and such
>>52531592
>>52531874
So what is the metaphor about?
>>52531541
How do you get faith? Like I believe in God and Christianity seems like a good religion but I just don't get how to look at the religion as anything other then stories with a good message.
>>52527593
It was a Satan turned into snake. Maybe it was a not real snake. Maybe it never happened because jews fairy tales.
>>52531692
there is no password and no "right" identity for getting into the kingdom of god, friend. hell is not material flames, or even all those dramatic descriptions of dante -- it is all our own road, and some experience what we call hell, and what we call heaven, before and after we die, but we will all meet the maker in the end.
>>52529978
go away Litwa
>>52531692
See >>52528480
> The world is riddled with temptations and hedonistic desires that are unfulfilling and harmful. To abstain from these desires is to separate yourself from the world (monasticism), thus achieving Salvation or Nirvana.
>>52531980
read the thread, it's already been explained
>>52531286
Hell is merely separation from God through being perpetually sinful in the face of God.
>all these people trying to show logic to fanatic people
topkek
>>52532019
this
>>52531783
>>52531980
Are those stories really all that bad tho? People spend a lot of time quoting the Old Testament, and truthfully, you can find whatever you want to support your thesis there. Its not the literal word of God, and no Christian -- ever -- would say it was. There are even erotic psalms in there.
Christians, like myself, belive New Testament -- the Good News -- contains words of Jesus, who took on our sins, all our sins, everything you read in the Old Testament, and yes, sadly, everything that keeps on repeating to this days.
Ecclesiastes 1:9
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
>>52532163
Replying with that three times instead of linking me seems very suspicious
If it's that complicated of an explanation it doesn't really matter anyway because most people will just take it as read (the simple, most obvious metaphor that I described) if they don't have a theologian to explain it to them
>>52532280
who will deny that the christian church, like all human creations, is flawed? of course it is, and not just because it kept on splitting, and often for all the wrong reasons, like power, simply put
yet do you not agree that your sense of right and wrong is not derived from all those stories as you call them, that fundamentally your sense of ethics comes from the good book?
>>52528480
But what was the snake losing its legs a metaphor for?
>>52527593
>Lipstick on Eve
>>52532279
I'm not knocking the ideas in the new testament I'm just saying that the bible is quite obviously in certain parts (the same as every other religion) structured in a way to keep large populations in order and obeying their leaders and religious leaders
Why does any one religion have more weight behind it than any other? Why can you not have a belief in the divine and in the positive moral ideas that are found in the new testament without subscribing to the beliefs and rituals that the christian church pushes and that we can definitely say were decided by people in Byzantium or wherever as the best rules to keep subjects in servitude?
>>52532304
That's still placing the pursuit of knowledge as a negative without explaining why. It's setting up that god denies humans things for arbitrary reasons (and often the most pleasurable things in life - the things that rulers in olden times did not want their subjects doing because they might get out of control) and that we must not question these restrictions or we will be punished. There is no satisfactory reason given that Adam or Eve should not touch the tree.
>>52532436
The sense of right and wrong in the bible was written by man who already had that sense - it's generally a good guide but only because the men who wrote it wanted their religious subjects to lead good lives. How can you possibly claim that people had a different sense of ethics before the bible was written (by men of whom we know who they were)
>>52531366
I hope it was sarcasm.
>>52532665
the bible is most definitely not structured to keep anyone in order or servitude -- like we said earlier, the old testament is, in fact, often contradictory. it really is not the literal word of God, and Christian theology does not consider it as the word of God.
see
>>52532436
Of course all our efforts are flawed, and even the Church is no exemption.
Matthewe 19:24
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.
It is flawed, as we are flawed creatures, who nevetheless were blessed with the good word -- its how we tell right from wrong. Even an atheist wont deny that Christianity is the source for our ethnics. But why is that? Have you considered that there is something more direct perhaps more fundamentally truthful? Unlike with many learned men and women before, and after, pagan, Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, or anything else?
>>52532665
Reminder that the "right-wrong" in the bible is the "right-wrong" of 2000 years ago
How can people say that they use this to guide their lives?
>>52532436
jel si ti duze vreme ovde?
jel blejis na exyu?
>>52532979
That's what God believes.
Why shouldn't I believe it too?
>>52533024
So there is nothing wrong with killing another human being, or having sex with your friends wife or girlfriend?
>>52533071
>That's what God believes.
I presume He said it to you in person?
>>52527593
quality thought provoking thread as expected from an american
>>52533104
It is in the Bible
The Bible is the God's word.
>>52533040
jesam, uglavnom lurkam. sto?
>>52533146
>The Bible is the God's word
And you know it because the Bible says so, right?
>>52533168
Yes
>>52533118
There's actually decent discussions on this thread
>>52533090
Right-wrong varies greatly in societies and in time, m8
There are things written in the Bible that may be considered right today, and things that may be considered wrong
It's not because it is in the Bible that you should take it to heart
>>52533018
Why didn't you respond to my second response to you in this post >>52532665?
And how can you possibly claim that man's sense of ethics comes from the bible when man existed for a long time before then and those same ethics are in every other religion?
The new testament is a good collection of morals to live by but it's definitely a collection of morals that already existed when it was written.
>>52533090
Many, many religions tell you not to kill or to commit adultery, why do you not practice them?
If you had been born in another part of the world you would be saying the same things about the muslim of jewish faith. How can you not see that organised religion is a ridiculous concept when so many of them have existed in our past and all have had basically the same message and have been tools to create social cohesion. That's clearly not a bad thing and it can be great to follow the teachings but to actually believe it takes a massive amount of closing your eyes and wanting to believe the 'nice' thing that you've been told since you were small
>>52533153
pa ne znam
nisam ovde primetio dosad nijednog anona iz srbije koji je religiozan, al ono stvarno, da nije samo folklor
jel studiras teologiju ili se samoinicijativno bavis time?
>>52533320
> believe the 'nice' thing
What's nice about eternal damnation that is apparently the fate of the vast majority of humanity ("narrow door" and all that)?
>>52531542
Not quite, you could get that better at
Blessed be he who believes without seeing
It just doesn't sit right that the universe was created by a mentally anthropocentric conscious entity made for an evolved ape species in a mudball. And worship that as if it would make sense to worship thunderbolts or worship gravitiy.
Good and evil is relative. Thought, evolution and life is scientifically explainable. There's no need for any sand wizard that made an ape descend to earth to tell about him (again, with more conscious personification) to exist.
Atoms don't judge between what some animal species narrate as good and bad.
If you aren't poor, ignorant, live in a favela, or whatever else, there's simply no need to seek escapism in religion. If you are depressed in a good country, in a good family, in a helthy body, it is simply pathetic for you to abidicate logic that easily.
>>52533411
most of that stuff about the eternal damnation, hell etc. was made up during the late middle ages and rennaisance times iirc
>>52533487
>most of that stuff about the eternal damnation, hell etc.
That's universalism\annihilationism heresy, m8. No mainstream Christian denomination have ever abandoned the idea of eternal damnation.
>>52532665
>hat's still placing the pursuit of knowledge as a negative without explaining why.
It's not the pursuit of knowledge, it's the pursuit of desires.
It wasn't so much that they didn't know the properties of the tree. It was more so that they were told by God not, yet told by satan (desires and temptations) to do so. They chose to follow satan, and disobey God. Therefore, they disturbed the tranquility of the earth and were banished from Eden.
Once again, this allegory is meant to show how following worldly desires only leads to an unfulfilling state.
>>52530433
Yeah but something went wrong with christianity. Even today we have hardcore Christians demonstrating against teaching evolution to kids. Thats wahabi tier of subhuman.
>>52533320
apologies if it seems like i m trying i m trying to sell my faith to you, i m really not. Like the rest of us, I m not perfect, and speaking for myself, I am a sinner, I will not pass that judgment on others.
I did answer your second question -- the Church is a human, therefore imperfect organization, there is no denying. But this is not a shampoo, or a soda -- its not a competition what sells, or what's better. I was speaking about my experience, and my sense of right and wrong, and for me it has everything to do with that direct experience of what Christians call Grace. Who am I to pass judgement on Muslims, or Jews or whomever?
I come from former Yugoslavia, and too many people here died because religion was understood the way you understand a football club, as a jersey, a tshirt with your club colors on. I am just saying that you yourself most likely derive your sense of right and wrong from Christian ethics. And maybe that's worth checking out the Good Book again. And I am not saying you should not look at the Holy Quran, or anything else. I am just saying maybe its not bad to take another, thorough, look at the New Testament. A lot of people talk about it, having not read it, or confounding it with the Old Testament.
>>52529978
True but its a bit formal for 4chan of all places
>>52531328
I stopped giving a shit when i accidentally dropped that meteor on the Dinosaurs.
PS: stop writing shitty fanfiction about me.
>>52533771
>I stopped giving a shit when i accidentally dropped that meteor on the Dinosaurs.
C'mon you can at least accidentaly drop a GF of him!
>>52532530
>snake losing its legs
"Being forced to lie on your belly" just means that most snakes would no longer be tree-dwellers.
Ultimately, humans would then have knowledge of what the consequences of following their temptations would be.
>>52533701
Why not read the old testament?
>>52533323
mnogi ljudi kod nas kazu da su vernici, al sustinski ne znaju hriscanstvo. ne kazem da ja znam, al eto trudim se da citam i saznam, i kazem sta je moje iskustvo. uglavnom ne postam, nego nesto me veceras podstaklo. a na egzju nema ozbiljne price pa skoro nikad.
>>52533925
Read both, I am just saying dont confuse the two. Christ came to take on our sins which are all so evident in the Old Testament, and he was foretold by many of the prophets. But it is his gentle word that comes after all those fierce and cruel stories in the old testament. Some say, God is merciful.
>>52533701
Very reasonable response, I certainly agree that the culture Christianity cultivated is largely a positive one - particularly in the moral sense - I just have trouble seeing why people follow the rituals demanded of them by the Church when they are so obviously an invention of man
>>52534086
Thank you. But with rituals, sure it can all seem silly, but they are there to bring us together, closer --
For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.
(1 Corinthians 13:12, 13)
It is these rituals that bring us closer together, and closer together to divine Love -- through building a community, through fraternal love. It saddens me that the Church is split in so many ways, and so humanly sinful, but I don't mind all these different rituals which developed historically in different parts of Christendom.
>>52531968
Man chooses to let suffering happen. Suffering is a consequence of sin, and is therefore our choice that it exists. Of course, God will not stop us since he gave us choice. And among all that suffering, we would learn the importance of Christian virtues (that was my point, sorry I didn't make it clear earlier).
>Wouldn't it be "more good" from his part if he just didn't make us able to be dishonest? You're implying that humans are flawed creatures so we need to suffer so we can improve ourselves, but why would God make us that way? Wouldn't making us unable to sin be way better?
Humans are indeed flawed and we are all born with original sin, as a result of the disobedience of Adam and Eve. Their rebellion made us this way: sinners. Making us unable to sin would take away free will, and therefore take out "genuine" love for Him. It is better that we understand the consequences and suffering that sin entails, rather than programming it into everyone.
>What virtues would a child who was raped learn?
There is no one answer for this. And it's not necessarily virtues. But I can see in the future that that child could be helping other victims of rape.
>How could having a worm in your eye make you "improve"?
God is not responsible for natural disasters. All of it traces back to the disobedience of Adam and Eve (read how it upset the balance in Genesis). In any case, he can use these to help us realize that ultimately, we are powerless against greater forces, that we are mortal and our time here is temporary. Of course there are other ways he can use this, but I cannot wholly understand Him myself.
Of course, he could just have killed Satan, or start over when Adam and Eve sinned, but that would make him not a benevolent God, but a God who rules by force and not love.
>>52534608
>God who rules by force and not love.
Your kid is trying to put his fingers (or metallic objects) into a wall socket or is running into traffic. As a good Christian, you can't physically stop him, right? That would be a horrible limitation of his freedom and ruling by force and not love.
>>52534836
>As a good Christian we must do exactly as God does
kek
>>52534962
Why should a perfect, omnipotent and omniscient being be held to lower standards than us - very imperfect beings?
>arguing with religious people
coolface.jpg
>>52535008
I don't see your point. Why should we emulate what God does when we are imperfect beings? He is perfect, omnipotent, and omniscient. We cannot achieve the same as He can with the same actions. Hell we can't even understand him completely.
>>52527697
Because le freedom of choice.
>Imma gonna create Adam and Eve
>Imma gonna build a paradise for them
>Foodstuff growing on trees for my Adam and Eve
>Imma gonna have le evil snake tempting Eve into eating from the only tree I told them not to eat from ( even though I still placed it there because reasons and HUEHUEUHUEHUEUHEU
>Eve was always a tad bitchy so she'll probably fall for le evil snake malevolous plot AND have Adam eating too
>ALL PARADISES BELONG TO GOD. I WANT YOU GUYS OUT OF MY PARADISE BY THE MORNING!
God is truly Pepesmug.jpg like.
>>52535742
>we can't even understand him completely.
That could not be more true.
However, phrases like "Of course, he could just have killed Satan, or start over when Adam and Eve sinned, but that would make him not a benevolent God, but a God who rules by force and not love." imply deep understanding of God's motives.
>>52535828
It was conjecture on my part, based on what little we know of His character: a God of love.
>>52536136
Love that ultimately leads to eternal suffering of the majority of sentient beings. It may be their choice, but most of them don't know or truly believe they are making such a choice so it could not be called an informed choice in a vast majority of cases. And God knows ahead of time that the vast majority of humans will be damned.
Nice fucking love.
>>52527593
if christianity is true then how come there were religions that worshipped dozens of god before it
>>52537102
Because they like God with Good story rather than a God let human free ?
>>52537148
>Because they like God with Good story
well isn't that what ancient greek mythology is?
how come that's mythology but the later religions aren't?
>>52537102
They would say it was Satan's work leading them away from the true path of salvation.
Having such a powerful and invisible enemy is very convenient as basically everything undesirable can be attributed to him.
>>52537177
Because Abrahamic religion has more Morality than them, while the ancient Greek mythology cuck human a lot but never see them in real life ? While Abrahamic god is only one and doing it secretly (of course end up become human blame box).
Anyone here actually believes that christmas is actually the date jesus was born ?
>>52529152
>god is an all powerful being
>hey you met my brother?
>>52529978
>a bolivian is correcting a brazilian's english
truly the end of days as foretold by john of patmos
>>52537023
>Love that ultimately leads to eternal suffering of the majority of sentient beings
This is wrong. It is love that ultimately leads to paradise, as long as we do the one thing He asks of us, to love Him in return.
>It may be their choice, but most of them don't know or truly believe they are making such a choice so it could not be called an informed choice in a vast majority of cases.
It is our duty to inform them. Besides, there is no way that the vast majority of the world has not heard of Jesus. And even if by some reason some people out there are not exposed to any of it, another chance may exist since no one knows what happens in the afterlife. Are we saved upon dying, when all our lives we have not heard of Him, yet we were constantly seeking for the Truth? I do believe this. Not all hope is lost for a non-believer.
>And God knows ahead of time that the vast majority of humans will be damned.
It is such. The wages of sin is death, and people consciously do it. I'm sure they know themselves that they lead an immoral life, and they're sure it's unchristian. Well, many are called but only few are chosen.
>>52532241
You haven't bothered reading anything did you virgin scum.
>>52537497
lol, no. It is a retail holiday, just like Easter, 7 of July, and most others.
>>52538135
>This is wrong. It is love that ultimately leads to paradise, as long as we do the one thing He asks of us, to love Him in return.
That line of reasoning would be sound if we assume God is not omnipotent. If going to hell is the "default" state and God can't save all, but tries to save at least few, that IS love.
But an omnipotent God CAN save ALL, or at least possible destroy them (like a mercy killing). But he actively decides to continue their unending suffering. This is completely and totally evil.
>>52527697
I went to catholic school k-8th so here is what I was taught about it.
>The snake is actually a form the devil took to tempt them
>God discovers the devil hanging out in the tree as a snake
>forces all snakes to crawl on their bellies as punishment for what the devil did
They also taught us snakes don't exist in Ireland because St. Patrick banished all them
>>52538532
There is no doubt about His omnipotence. He definitely has the capacity to save all. But He is also a just God, and to him sin cannot be tolerated and go unpunished. Someone has to suffer.
To us, sin is something finite. However God is eternal and so is His anger for sin. Therefore its punishment can only be eternal as well.
>If going to hell is the "default" state
It's not. We are already saved because His Son suffered on Earth with us and died for us on the cross. It is merely your choice to reject Him as your Savior.
>>52539208
>Someone has to suffer.
Why? That's his "love"?
>sin cannot be tolerated and go unpunished
Why?
>However God is eternal and so is His anger for sin
Why does he have "anger" at all?
>>52538819
You realise all snakes can swim and climb trees? Some can also jump like a pogo and even glide
>>52538819
Oh and if God made snakes go on their bellys as a punishment, how did the devil snake move?
>>52539417
That was after the snake tempted Eve.
The truth is, to settle all this conversation... Christians have thought long and hard about why and how the bible should be interpreted. They have devised great arguments that counteract almost every argument against the bible.
Because it all boils down to "That is what God said" versus "God does not exist."
>>52539523
So the bible is to be taken literally or not at all?
>>52539523
>"That is what God said"
And it's even more convoluted because it's also what Moses said not actually directly out of God's mouth like the ten commandments which God actually wrote himself instead of letting some guy He liked do what he thought was best.
Which is something Jesus pointed out when taking about divorce with a "Moses said this but that God intended for ect..."
Also the serpent who is Satan and not just some snake thing is cursed to feed on the dust of the earth which is mankind, and by the book of Revelation has become a terrible dragon by way of mankind.
>>52539617
people did not speak in literal terms untill just a few centuries ago.
You should take no book or story from before the 17th century literally, even peasants communicated in multi-layered allegory with ideas and symbolism (memes if you will) that were recognizable and knowable to the people they were talking to.
>>52528446
This.
It's the same with rocks, except rocks are actually soft and only tense up when we're around.
Gnenesis
genesis
>>52534608
>benevolent God, but a God who rules by force and not love.
The flood was love?
What happened to the tower of babylone was love?
>>52529020
>>52529112
http://m.livescience.com/4183-fear-snakes-drove-pre-human-evolution.html
>>52527593
Jesus is historical person. Bible is jewish myths mixed with other nation's tales.
>>52527593
Old Testament is rather retarded. New one is far more logical.
>>52529020
You realise that the reason humans are so scared of Humans is because we're evolved to be scared of them, right? It's not a meme made up a couple of thousands of years ago just to prank people into being scared of Snakes. Snakes kill you.
>>52541984
>Snakes kill you.
Actually no. In his case the poison gets diluted to a harmless dose.
>>52531745
Depending on the sect, some believe that you will not be punished if you never had an opportunity to know God.
>>52541978
>god loves you
>but you'll be tortured forever if you don't literally worship him
>but he loves you
Not much more logical than talking snakes m8.
>>52537102
Those other religions aren't necessarily false but are possibly misinterpretations of the work of God.
>>52531034
There are still people that take it literal and kill their sons and make a holocaust of sheeps because God told them so, as in the Bible.
But they're mad as fuck, not godly fellows.
No, the Bible is not meant to be taken literally, it never was during Christianity, except for the nutjob cases.
