When will the meme that Islam is a violent religion end?
>>52271595
when they all die.
>Innocent
In Islam, innocent means: Muslim who follows the Quran to the tee
isn't Takbir something taken from the Quran? That doesn't really seem peaceful to me.
when all muslims are dead and buried
When all of the world's 9 year old girls know the sweet touch of prophet mohamed
>>52271595 (OP)
when they all die.
if islam is a peaceful religion then why aren't their extremists extremely peaceful?
>>52271595
For your average Muslim?
The meme probably ends when he/she blows himself up in a crowded concert :)
>>52271699
mut mohammed guy also likes boys.
>>52271717
If Christianity teaches forgiveness, why don't murkin christians forgive? Why do your people enrich your priests? Why do they kill without thought and then accept the law saying its ok forgetting about Gods judgement?
This and many questions are answered by individuals with their own answer. There is no right answer. If judged by your standards they are not Muslims, they fail as you say for not being peaceful. Same with Christians who pick up the gun, they will find all sorts of caveats for the reason, say they are Christian patriots and then threaten people. No difference, people are what they are from their actions not their words or claims to a category.
>>52271595
>innocent
Who is innocent?
>>52271595
Nice try but non muslims aren't innocent people according to Islam.
>inb4 that list of Muslim terror attacks committed just this year alone
>>52271595
http://youtu.be/ur7Ttz0q0o4
Why dont you ever quote the entire text of that passage?
>>52271595
In a world where not being a muslim is a sin, half the world is not innocent by default.
>>52271595
You continuing this from /pol/?
I am sure you saw that Muslims define "Innocent" as Muslim, Muslims are "Innocent", not non-Muslims.
They are the religion of violence, it is not a meme, you moron.
LITERALLY FOUNDED BY A WARLORD WHO RAPED LITTLE GIRLS
>>52271973
This makes sense 2 b q h
The meme that needs to end is religion. Why are modt christians cvilized? Because they are just nominally chrisitians. We eat pork and touch women in their menstruation and do a lot of shit that the bible argues against.
We keep an ironic distance to the whole deal. When that distance is lost you have retards bombing abortion clinics and stuff like that.
>le tip fedora mayamy
why don't we ship every raghead to america if you love them so much
>>52272629
Living the dream
>>52271595
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
>Islam religion of peace
More like
>Islam religion of piss
>>52273277
>>>/facebook/
>>52272775
>Why are modt christians cvilized? Because they are just nominally chrisitians.
It has more to do with the Christian religion having the concept of free will (barring a few cranks like the Calvinists) and the notion that man is free to accept or reject salvation. Islam has no notion of free will, it just says "Do what the Koran says or we'll kill you."
>>52272775
Except the New Testament says Christians need not worry about the ritual cleanliness of the body as much (foods, body fluids, etc.) because true spiritual cleanliness is obtained through faith and grace.
>le Deus Vult maymay
>>52272625
which major religion isn't a religion of violence? Maybe one of those gnarly Indian ones.
>>52271595
>When will the meme that Islam is a violent religion end?
when george bush, the false flag propagator, dies
>>52273167
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2015/12/08/house-vote-would-deny-visa-free-entry-iraq-syria-travelers/pkNs1HlVyhLiWnrrYg0KCM/story.html
we dont want em
It won't, because it's not a meme, it's the truth.
ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html
NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY
Channel Four (2006): 31% of younger British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified compared to 14% of those over 45.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/publications/living%20apart%20together%20-%20jan%2007.pdf
People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.
http://people-press.org/report/206/a-year-after-iraq-war
YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/04/06/32-of-palestinians-support-infanticide/
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4053251,00.html
>>52273422
Bush said that islam is a religion of peace
When Shia master race rules the world and everyone left alive is innocent Shia
Any religion that claims a single god can't be a religion of peace simply because you can't tolerate the existence of other gods.
>>52273476
>in every case, a minority support those views
>Islam is defined by its minority
you people aren't even trying at this point
>>52273551
Nah Shiism is shit as well.
>>52273665
#notallmuslims
#only20%
>>52273476
>>52273599
Jews have no problem with goyim going to hell
>>52273741
>has no response
>spouts memes
a clichéd way to concede the argument
>>52273812
You're the one who spouted the meme, I just called you out on it.
To say that a group where 1/5 want to kill people for ideological reasons is peaceful is fucking insane.
>>52273767
fuck off shill
>>52273908
>elementary mathematics is a meme
Such is the state of >Swedish education these days
To say that the entire group are bloodthirsty murderers because 1/5 of them are is fucking insane. It's literally illogical.
Feel free to drop by any 1st grade math class if you don't believe me.
>>52273964
That's a shitskin diaspora, homes.
>>52273964
>Unlike in the Hellenistic era (Second Temple Judaism), in the modern era most branches of Judaism do not actively proselytize non-Jews. Instead non-Jews are encouraged to follow Noahide Law, which is said to assure a place in the World to Come. Some groups, however, will encourage nonobservant Jews to be observant, such as Aish HaTorah or Chabad. Many branches of Judaism are open to the conversion of the non-Jewish spouses of already existing mixed marriages to convert to Judaism.[19] Orthodox Judaism in theory, neither encourages or discourages conversion, however their standards for conversion can be very challenging but persistent and sincere requests for conversion are conducted.[20]
How is this not a different wording of what I just said
>>52274050
because there is no hell in Judaism?
>>52274122
Well, there is but it's more like the Greek Hades not the cartoony Catholic demons-and-pitchforks Hell.
>>52274122
No hell? So what happens when you do bad stuff like stealing and usury?
>>52273974
Is that what I'm saying?
I thought this thread was about whether or not Islam is a religion of peace, which it clearly isn't.
>>52274348
Judaism really never placed much of any emphasis on an afterlife IIRC.
>>52274122
Then where do the dead terrorists end up after death?
It is not a matter of islam being a violent religion or not. Any sort of ideology would turn violent given the right circumstances.
The thing is, people who died at french stadium had it coming regardless of the ideology of people who did, simply because their country waging wars in name of 'freedumb and democrasy' in a country several thousands miles away.
Even if members of isis were adherent buddhism, it desisted they are going to change and justify killing civilians at some point.
tl;dr they asked for it.
>>52275445
Jesus christ, this ticks every box of stupid.
Mona, do yourself a favor and stick to Kaomoji.
>>52271595
Read the next verse, Quran 5:33
>>52275445
they are not adherent of buddhism, they are of islam. As is every other terrorist in the world.
Even some religious scholar say it is a problem of islam in your country.
>>52275445
So do tell why there is not one first world democracy that's majority Muslim?
>>52271595
if it is the stance of war - cases belli and status belli is a long story and has strict basis- the only people you can kill is stated and is limited.
rest is innocent.
/THREAD
and please don’t tell me about my religion mr. lacksbasicsofargumentationster ignoranti elenchi applicators.
i hate ignorance. i can’t stand ignorant people in turkey. i can’t stand ignorant muslims. i can’t stand erdogan and i can’t stand ignorant european and americans. not so fast rest of the world. if you are ignorant, i can’t stand you too.
>>52275445
siply ebin
Off the record, Christians gave us crusades, Inquisitions, witch burnings, science denial, Westboro Baptist Church, and pedophile priests, so...l
>>52275654
How about the US starts bombing russia to free you from dictatorship rule of putin and establish freedom and democracy in Russia and then we will witness the 'peaceful teachings' of orthodox Christianity in effect.
>>52275716
I don't know but that is none of your business.
>>52271973
ok abdul
>>52276020
Golly, I can't wait for a drone strike to hit this guy's hovel in Cairo.
>>52275821
>crusades
Tame compared to muslim conquest
>crusades, Inquisitions, witch burnings, science denial
Which is still a frequent occurrence among christians and christianity, oh wait.
>Westboro Baptist Church
Which consists of 40 people holding up signs, literally ISIS tier.
>pedophile priests
I don't think there's even half the amount of cases for this compared to just the one muslim rapegroup in Britain.
>>52275445
Going by the same logic, every christian is justified in killing any muslim.
France says it acts on behalf of the French, wages war/kill people who are a supposed threat, Islamic State. Islamic state is therefore justified killing any French because of the actions taken on their behalf.
Islamic State says it acts on behalf of muslims, wages war/kill people who are a supposed threat, Christians. Christians are therefore justified in killing any muslim because of the actions taken on their behalf.
Do you want Christians in the west going into mosques and killing people? That is what you are justifying.
Of course, half of you deluded mudshits think the crusades never ended so you probably are incapable of appreciating this example
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/10/16/hungarys-viktor-orban-islam-is-rulebook-of-another-world/
Laying down the realness.
>>52271595
but almost no one is innocent according to the Koran
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd9lIuUjPs0
This guy exposes how Islam originally was a political ploy for Muhammed and his successors to conquer and enslave all their neighbors.
>>52271677
What is wrong with the takbir? I have never heard that being called problematic.
>>52276319
>France says it acts on behalf of the French, wages war/kill people who are a supposed threat
France doesn't act on behalf of the french. France's action are the result of decisions of french population. The majority of population green-lit the war in syria and are supportive of their country's action.
Isis is just militia in the middle east and are a faction of the several ones already there fighting power in the midst of a civil war. They represent no one but themselves and their supporters.
Your country decided to partake in that war and take sides therefore you're responsible for your decision and it is completely expected that members of the opposing force will attempt hurting your country men. It has nothing to do with religion.
>>52276319
Go shoot up your school or something.
>>52276725
Proofs? I always see /pol/ claim this but never give any verses supporting the allegation that innocent meant a something other than innocent
>>52271595
Quran 5:33
>Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
>>52276319
It's not a guy.
Which makes it worse.
Women tend to have less combative opinions than men. If she's representative of the women, one can only imagine the morally warped perspective of average Muslim men.
>>52275821
Why are libtards so obsessed with WBC? They're just a bunch of meth heads who hold up silly signs.
>>52277076
>Enemy waging war on you (and maybe your religious group)
>Defend yourself and either kill them in the fight or drive them out of your home(land)
What is wrong with that? Also, other verses have more directives and restrictions, including the one that everyone of you people omit when quoting 2:191 and the general area around there, namely that if the agressor stops fighting and taking aggressive actions, you have to stop too.
>>52277076
Also, you omitted the next verse which gives a restriction.
>>52275821
>Christians gave us crusades, Inquisitions, witch burnings
But more recently than 400 years ago.
>>52271595
remember that infidels are not innocent
>>52277723
>Also, you omitted the next verse which gives a restriction.
"Except for those who return [repenting] before you apprehend them. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."
yea like that makes it better.
>>52271595
The catch being that non-Muslims are not considered innocent.
Christianity teaches that God can't force you to do anything, but you will be stuck in Hell by turning your back on him (remember - Hell is the default condition and you have to get out of it).
Islam teaches that you have three choices - convert, die, or be an infidel who lives as a second-class citizen and whom Muslims may keep as a slave.
>>52271595
Did any islamofag ever bother offering a definition of who is an "innocent person"?
>>52280095
I think the burden of proof is on you to show that Muslims think "innocent" has some special meaning that isn't the usual kind.
>>52280095
An innocent person is someone who doesn't back/support/participate in a war against followers of islam.
Idol worshipers and other religion's missionaries are explicitly not innocent.
>>52279976
Well...I think on a more basic level, the difference is that Christianity is more about the personal relationship between you and God while Islam is more of an all-encompassing way of life. Which thus makes it distinctly incompatible with liberalism and democracy since those things require a secular government with separation of church and state.
>>52278309
>apprehend
More like "have in your power", but yeah, what is the issue with that? Is it morally wrong to kill or expel someone who literally won't stop attacking you until you have to overpower them? If the guy stops attacking BEFORE he gets to that point, you should not harm him since he willingly stopped the aggression, but if the only thing stoping him from killing you is your force over him and not his morality or whatever, I don't see the issue.
I know you weren't the guy I have the response to, but I notice you didn't respond to the large post. Have a retort for that one?
>>52278786
Give a verse for proof sir
>>52280427
>Idol worshipers and other religion's missionaries are explicitly not innocent.
Where is that "explicitly" said? It doesn't even logically follow from your first point unless the idol worshippers are actually attacking Muslims or deliberately instigating violence against them.
>>52280427
So did the Paris attackers ask every person they killed if they supported or didn't support the Syrian bombing?
I can guarantee that a good 20% of the people slaughtered didn't agree with the Syrian bombing
>>52280873
>So did the Paris attackers ask every person they killed if they supported or didn't support the Syrian bombing?
Because those were extremists anon. They didn't even check to see if there was an ISIS sympathizer there. They just killed without following the compliance rules.
>>52271595
Nice taqqiya m8
>>52281075
>Because those were extremists anon. They didn't even check to see if there was an ISIS sympathizer there. They just killed without following the compliance rules.
Right, because Islamic doctrine says that if a fellow Muslim died in a terrorist attack, he would automatically go to Heaven.
>>52275821
Lets look at it in a strictly modern look or what they've been up to the past few decades
Average christian talks about god then gets sad when people call them stupid.
Extremist christian will yell about god and hold up picket signs
Average muslim will cry about oppression and shout #islamispeace while they wait for sharia law to take over and fuck up the modern world
Extremist muslim kill people. Al Qaeda, Boko haram, 9/11, countless terrorist attacks all thanks to islam. And you really wanna try put christianity on the spot?
>>52271595
No kaffars are innocent
>>52281740
>Extremist muslim kill people. Al Qaeda, Boko haram, 9/11, countless terrorist attacks all thanks to islam. And you really wanna try put christianity on the spot?
Most of those are the direct end result of US support for the illegal Zionist state.
>>52282066
this b8 was mouldy years ago
>>52281425
>Right, because Islamic doctrine says that if a fellow Muslim died in a terrorist attack, he would automatically go to Heaven.
Got proofs of that claim buddy?
>>52282066
And about the 1400 years of Mudslimes mudsliming before there was Israel?
>>52281740
>And you really wanna try put christianity on the spot?
Christianity is above criticism now?
>>52282066
I won't say most, but Israel and general western intervention is a notable factor in these issues
>>52282305
They did "terrorism" for 1400 years? Look up what "terrorism" means and then see if you can repeat that insinuation.
>>52275445
Advocating violence against innocent people in the name of your horrid religion and internal politics.
Christ. I hope World War III consists of the western world invading the shit out of all mudslime countries and simply erasing this awful, backwards, violent, disgusting culture, installing new governments free of Sharia law and enforcing a secular mindset, burning all mosques and making it illegal to build new ones.
Islamism is the cancer of mankind. Religions are shitty in general, but Islam is the only one nations cannot work under and that actively, willingly causes so much bloodbath.
Enemies of Quran will never stop their propaganda, like ISIS or Al-Qaeda , both created by America to push their agenda.
We muslims have the hate of almost every other religion , yet i have faith Allah will illuminate your lives and make you change the heart in your hearts to love Inshallah.
>>52282522
t. Alberto Barbosa do Sudoeste
>>52282571
This sort of post doesn't help though.
>>52282677
*Sudeste, actually. But my descendents are Italian...
>>52282337
>>>/tumblr/
>>52271595
>If you leave Islam, you are not innocent.
>If you are a homosexual, you are not innocent.
>If you have sex before marriage, you are not innocent.
>If you are a man and dresses like a woman, you are not innocent.
>If you criticize Allah, his prophets and his friends, you are not innocent.
>If you disbelieve Allah (pretty much everyone in this subreddit), you are not innocent.
>etc
If you are any of the above then that makes killing you halal (acceptable) in Islam.
So the next time you hear "Islam forbids killing the innocent", please point these out to them. Ask how many poets Mohammed ordered to be killed just for mocking him through poetry.
>>52282730
Im not trying to change your mind.
Im hoping Allah enlightens your hearts and transform that hate for islam to tollerance.
May Allah bless you
>>52282764
*ancestors
>>52280873
Does the french bombers ask every person they killed if they supported or didn't support ISIS?
>>52281740
I love it when people get a shock because groups like isis and taliban exist,your country bombed so many middle eastern countries and killed hundreds of thousands civilians if not millions over the last few decades not to mention the attempted political fuckery in some of them,and despite all of this its somehow unthinkable that some sort of terrorist group made of people that suffered from your shit will decide to do whatever is in their capabilities to get revenge for the ones they loved that you killed,look at your fucking country panicking and going ape shit over a mass shooting of 19 people,look at france flipping over and going nuts and panicking over their 109 or whatever causalities from the shootings,now imagine the guys in the middle east losing thousands if not more daily while you guys gloat about muh epic 9000 air strikes a day,i severely doubt religion has anything to do with it other than being a bonus moral tool this would have had happened anywhere else,this was inevitable with islam or without it.
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity."
"The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property—either as a child, a wife, or a concubine—must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science—the science against which it had vainly struggled—the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."
>>52282802
This is true
Islam has a very large short list of "non-innocents"
>>52283582
"Oh boo hoo. Boo hoo hoo. If only it weren't for those goshdarn Zionists, my country wouldn't be a corrupt, miserable shithole where women have to walk around wearing trash bags."
Does it say something that Islam is such shit that you choose to make your home in a Christian nation like the UK, my good sir.
>>52283672
top tier arguement there my friend,you sure got me with that strawman.
>>52283582
>gorillions
>>52273319
this, the western world was founded on christian values, and now with denouncing those you get degenerates that literally invite the enemy to stay in their homes
>inb4 fedora tipper
i'm not a religious person, but i can see the value in holding up your traditions, especially because the land you live on was fought for by your ancestors, who tried to keep it free just so you can give it away
>>52271973
>all these killings in the name of christianity
>>52282802
the very same goes for Christianity.
both religions are cancer.
I something wonder that what kinds of filters they see though others who don't believe the same religion.
>le religion of 1 billion+ people is any one thing meme
When will this end?
>>52284068
But Christianity doesn't mandate killing anyone m8
>>52273974
>20% of 1.6 billion isn't a big fucking problem
>>52284117
We know what year it is, thanks anyway Trudeau.
>>52284068
Protip: A religion is only as good as its followers, not what's outlined in their book
Pretty clear to see 99% of Christians merely see it as a few suggestions
>>52284177
I read the European history of medieval age, I was teffiried how Church killed innocent people in the name's of god.
it was much worse than Isram today.
>>52284406
And by the church's own standards we can judge those who killed innocents to be wrong.
>>52280647
>More like "have in your power", but yeah, what is the issue with that? Is it morally wrong to kill or expel someone who literally won't stop attacking you until you have to overpower them? If the guy stops attacking BEFORE he gets to that point, you should not harm him since he willingly stopped the aggression, but if the only thing stoping him from killing you is your force over him and not his morality or whatever, I don't see the issue.
>I know you weren't the guy I have the response to, but I notice you didn't respond to the large post. Have a retort for that one?
yes - you are lying. lying and twisting and doing mental gymnastics.
"Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,"
"Except for those who return [repenting] before you apprehend them. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful"
Basically if someone is against Allah - kill them.
If they happen to convert before you are able to kill them in a very horrible way - spare them, because we want our jihad army to grow.
first you where like "well there a restriction" you did not quote, but the restriction makes it even worse.
now you're trying to twist it like it's some sort of self defence thing.
you are a liar.
this is deliberately designed (or evolved as religions change and adapt suing Darwinian rules) to exterminate everyone who does not follow this death cult, and recruit new members to copy itself.
>>52275445
>The thing is, people who died at french stadium had it coming regardless of the ideology of people who did, simply because their country waging wars in name of 'freedumb and democrasy' in a country several thousands miles away.
Thank god, I can kill all muslims now because all of their countries do it
>>52284406
Nice proxy, dumbass.
>>52284453
I don't get what you meant, at least those who got killed by Church were not thought to be innocent by 'the church standards' at that time.
>>52282804
I'm not saying Islam is bad guy. I am saying your post is not helpful.
>>52284672
this is the perfect image of Christianity or Isram.
you guys are mentally ill, but will never aware of it. sorry people lot indeed.
>>52285036
Yep, proxying weeb like almost all Japs here. :^)
>>52285110
why I have to be a proxy? all Japanese subconscioudly dislike Christianity as Christian population here proved. also the 1.2% are mostly Koreans.
>>52285382
>>52284406
>intentionally writing all Ls as Rs for yucks
Post gave you away, dude. The only real Japs here are NuMoot and a few guys who never post outside the /int/ Japan General Thread. All the rest...English teachers or weeb proxyfags.
>>52273434
Yeah about that fuck off you should take a lot for your country's responsibility in fucking the ME up
>>52285636
Aaaand here comes the Algerian diaspora. Right on time.
>>52283585
RIGHT ON WINSTON
>>52285894
On the contrary m8, I'm not saying that because I care about them, I'm saying that because they are flooding Europe. While you sit there drawing Muhammad or whatever you call it in English and deciding you shouldn't take any, when you have a great deal of responsability in this.
So call me whatever you want, here's the truth.
>oh btw you are not innocent if you eat pork or dont pray 12 times a day :`)
>>52286372
Hachemi plz go.
>>52271595
Quran 5:33, literally the next verse, is a bit different:
"Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment"
>>52271595
When it stops being true.
The five tenants of Pisslam:
1. There is only one shitskin god of war and you must obey his every command or else
2. Women aren't allowed to look pretty, show skin, or experience pleasure during sex, so put on that garbage bag and lop off that clitoris
3. Anyone who insults Pisslam needs to be exterminated - Allah wills it
4. One little country about 8000 square miles in size is somehow responsible for all your ills and if only it didn't exist, your country wouldn't be a fucking medieval cesspool
5. Child rape is a-ok. After all, the Prophet himself did it.
>>52284571
>Basically if someone is against Allah - kill them.
If you literally don't read the text, maybe you'd reduce the text that way.
>If they happen to convert before you are able to kill them in a very horrible way - spare them, because we want our jihad army to grow.
And you call me a liar. You plugged in the word "convert" where that was never said. No where in those verse does it say you need to convert, even in the second of the two verses. It also did not make a requirement for a certain type of death as you are claiming.
>first you where like "well there a restriction" you did not quote, but the restriction makes it even worse.
now you're trying to twist it like it's some sort of self defence thing.
Are you retarded? The first verse says if someone is fighting Muslims, kill them or do that punishment, or banish them from the land they are attacking UNLESS (second verse) they cease attacking you (before you have them under your control, where, no shit, they aren't attacking you, but that is just because they are physically unable to wage war on you more, not because they chose to stop being an agressor). How can you interpret another way? Run me through your thinking.
>you are a liar.
No, but you certainly add in words that aren't there, so what does that make you?
>this is deliberately designed (or evolved as religions change and adapt suing Darwinian rules) to exterminate everyone who does not follow this death cult, and recruit new members to copy itself.
Why would the verse have a restriction on killing an opponent (assumed non-Muslim) if you were right? I would have expected no restriction at all then
>>52282337
Criticism goes where its due. Christfags are annoying but they're not beheading people or blowing up town squares in the name of God. The worst ive seen is just that they're pushy or hypocritical.
That bit is from before Mohammad went to Medina and has since been replaced by a later sura. When will the meme that is picking out passages from Mohammad's early pre-war life end?
>>52287918
>implying abrogation is actually a thing
>>52271595
when people calling themselves muslims stop massacring innocents
>>52287918
Are Swedes such cucks that they even want their verses to be cucked?
>>52288281
World peace between Muslims, Jews, Christians, etc when?
>>52287560
>>Basically if someone is against Allah - kill them.
>If you literally don't read the text, maybe you'd reduce the text that way.
word of "god" would be understood by all her children without fault - or is it beyond her capabilities?
>>If they happen to convert before you are able to kill them in a very horrible way - spare them, because we want our jihad army to grow.
>And you call me a liar. You plugged in the word "convert" where that was never said. No where in those verse does it say you need to convert, even in the second of the two verses. It also did not make a requirement for a certain type of death as you are claiming.
if you no longer wage a war against Allah, then you agree with it.
if you don't think it's false, you think it's true.
act of not believing in faith and then accepting it as true is called converting to that faith.
>>first you where like "well there a restriction" you did not quote, but the restriction makes it even worse.
>now you're trying to twist it like it's some sort of self defence thing.
>Are you retarded? The first verse says if someone is fighting Muslims, kill them or do that punishment, or banish them from the land they are attacking UNLESS (second verse) they cease attacking you (before you have them under your control, where, no shit, they aren't attacking you, but that is just because they are physically unable to wage war on you more, not because they chose to stop being an agressor). How can you interpret another way? Run me through your thinking.
"those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger"
attack on religion - like claiming it's bullshit and mohamet was a liar - is by definition not physical.
claiming self defence is bullshit and spinning.
>>52287560
>>52288402
>>you are a liar.
>No, but you certainly add in words that aren't there, so what does that make you?
if you mean "converting" it's explained above and applies.
if not provide an example.
lack of example = you agree where wrong.
>>this is deliberately designed (or evolved as religions change and adapt suing Darwinian rules) to exterminate everyone who does not follow this death cult, and recruit new members to copy itself.
>Why would the verse have a restriction on killing an opponent (assumed non-Muslim) if you were right? I would have expected no restriction at all then
your army grows faster if some of them join you, even if it's out of fear what will happen to them if they don't.
besides it's bad for the morale to attack people who are now converted to your faith if the sole reason for attacking them was that they are not of your faith.
the religion does not give a shit about any life, just more copies - more possibilities for further expansion.
>>52271595
the operative word here is "innocent" which is very subjective. this basically means don't kill other muslims who believe what you do and act according to your laws.
>>52271595
That phrase is supposed to be encouragement, not condemnation.
>>52288402
>word of "god" would be understood by all her children without fault - or is it beyond her capabilities?
Even if I wrote a perfectly clear manual today in English, 1000 years from now, it would not be clearly understood due language change. Not to mention you can't have a text that includes topics of an advanced nature and expect everyone no matter their education level to understand it.
And I assume this criticism you are giving applies to all religious books, yes?
>if you no longer wage a war against Allah, then you agree with it.
"Waging war" does not mean disagree. You have the burdan of proof to show if that were true.
>if you don't think it's false, you think it's true. act of not believing in faith and then accepting it as true is called converting to that faith.
Yes, but "waging war against Allah" doesn't mean a simple disagreement. It means you are actually waging war against Muhammad (Allah's regent) and Muslim on account of their religion.
>attack on religion - like claiming it's bullshit and mohamet was a liar - is by definition not physical.
I don't understand what you are saying here. Please rephrase and/or elaborate.
>claiming self defence is bullshit and spinning.
If the first verse qualifies it as the enemies waging war on the Muslims, and second verse says that if they stop attacking before they lose, the Muslims will not kill, do corporate punishment, or banish them , and other verses in the book say you must stop fighting if they stop acting aggressive towards you (which would not make sense of the Muslims instigated the first attack in the scenario since then the Muslims are aggressors there), how is it not self defense?
The only way it is not self-defense is if you add in the word "convert" which isn't there nor implied.
>>52288509
The quote is actually taken out of context in a very choosey way. The quote in the OP is an edict directed at the 'children of Israel' (jews) to show how wrong they are for killing and opposing muslims.
>>52289892
>Even if I wrote a perfectly clear manual today in English, 1000 years from now, it would not be clearly understood due language change. Not to mention you can't have a text that includes topics of an advanced nature and expect everyone no matter their education level to understand it.
>And I assume this criticism you are giving applies to all religious books, yes?
I think one of the big stumbling blocks that prevents Islam from being adapted to modernity is that the Koran is written in classical Arabic (which is not 100% like the modern language) and translations are generally discouraged. It's like medieval Christianity when Bibles were all Latin and the commoners only knew whatever skewed interpretation a priest gave them.
>>52289892
>>word of "god" would be understood by all her children without fault - or is it beyond her capabilities?
>Even if I wrote a perfectly clear manual today in English, 1000 years from now, it would not be clearly understood due language change. Not to mention you can't have a text that includes topics of an advanced nature and expect everyone no matter their education level to understand it.
surely an all powerful being could correct for this drift or even make this drift not existent if she wished.
>And I assume this criticism you are giving applies to all religious books, yes?
ofc all of them are equally stupid, some are more dangerous than others though
>>if you no longer wage a war against Allah, then you agree with it.
>"Waging war" does not mean disagree. You have the burdan of proof to show if that were true.
how else can you wage a war against a god, than claim she does not exist?
>>if you don't think it's false, you think it's true. act of not believing in faith and then accepting it as true is called converting to that faith.
>Yes, but "waging war against Allah" doesn't mean a simple disagreement. It means you are actually waging war against Muhammad (Allah's regent) and Muslim on account of their religion.
one of which is dead the other non corporal by definition.
you have no argument. for any physical force. the only thing physical is what muslims should do if you don't agree that allah exists.
>>52289892
>>52290841
>>attack on religion - like claiming it's bullshit and mohamet was a liar - is by definition not physical.
>I don't understand what you are saying here. Please rephrase and/or elaborate.
you where trying to spin it as it's a self defence thing. it's about disagreeing with religion, that's the only ground on which this entity it can be attacked.
>>claiming self defence is bullshit and spinning.
>If the first verse qualifies it as the enemies waging war on the Muslims,
not on muslims - on their religion.
"war against Allah and His Messenger"
not
"war against Allah and His Messenger and their followers"
>and second verse says that if they stop attacking before they lose,
"Except for those who return [repenting] before you apprehend them. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful".
So they know allah and repent for "wage war against Allah and His Messenger".
so if they no longer wage war against allah, and repent - don't you think they kinda believe in this relligion?
> self defense?
just drop this. does not apply. twice now.
>>52281740
It's also true that you have religions like Hinduism and Buddhism which have a rather different set of values than Christianity, yet they don't seem to have a problem co-existing with the rest of the world. It's just one religion in particular that believes all other faiths have to be violently destroyed.
>>52283585
>were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science
I would like to know what exactly Winston meant by this?
>>52288444
>if you mean "converting" it's explained above and applies.
if not provide an example.
I was referring to the "converting" part, yes. I have responded to that in my other post and I will see how you respond to it.
>lack of example = you agree where wrong.
That's not how a debate works, but anyways, I have expressed my disagreement where I disagree, so that should not be an issue here.
>your army grows faster if some of them join you, even if it's out of fear what will happen to them if they don't.
Are you viewing this from a religion standpoint or a Muhammad standpoint? If the former, forced conversions inherently don't make sense as the person isn't converting, they are just claiming to and are merely nominally converted, which is useless and not what God would mandate or desire. Furthermore, if you were actually trying to convert someone for real, you need to actually explain to them the religion, not just say "convert it Islam or die", when they don't even know what Islam is and it's just a name to them.
If you look at if from a Muhammad point of view, your viewpoint could work, but only by ASSUMING you take it as given that Muhammad was just interested in short term political power for himself and to him, the Ummah were literally just an army to him, ~no Muslim believes this by the way, and neither to most scholars (scholars don't say he was mainly or purely power driven I mean) ~rather than him actually believing that God spoke to him and gave him the duty of spreading a religion (whether God actually spoke to him or not doesn't matter, as long as he thought that was the case, your claim is difficult to support)
>besides it's bad for the morale to attack people who are now converted to your faith if the sole reason for attacking them was that they are not of your faith.
the religion does not give a shit about any life, just more copies - more possibilities for further expansion.
I believe I have already address this generally in my prior comments
>>52290047
"Children of Israel" =/= (what you call in modern times) "Jews" in Islamic theology mate
>>52291047
He means that the Christian world has the most modern, advanced tech/societies which ensures it's safe from conquest by Mudslimes.
>>52273749
Out of curiosity, I looked up that report and found these other data. Please discuss.
>>52291072
>>your army grows faster if some of them join you, even if it's out of fear what will happen to them if they don't.
>Are you viewing this from a religion standpoint or a Muhammad standpoint? If the former, forced conversions inherently don't make sense as the person isn't converting, they are just claiming to and are merely nominally converted, which is useless and not what God would mandate or desire.
please provide evidence that god does not desire forced conversions.
> Furthermore, if you were actually trying to convert someone for real, you need to actually explain to them the religion, not just say "convert it Islam or die", when they don't even know what Islam is and it's just a name to them.
like it matters. as long as they bow, bring their children to be raised in faith and listen to religious leaders it's all the same.
>If you look at if from a Muhammad point of view, your viewpoint could work, but only by ASSUMING you take it as given that Muhammad was just interested in short term political power for himself and to him, the Ummah were literally just an army to him,
designed or not all religions are subject to the same rules. expand and be successful, loose members and be erased. there is a finite number of people and most of them can be occupied by only one of them. then you design a religion you would put rules in that make it more likely to survive on it's own - children are blessed, children should listen to elders, elders should bring children into religion, stable family is blessed, throwing away religion is a sin, etc... each of them adds to your yeld and compounds over years.
there where countless religions, there was one in puritan usa with rules like - sex is evil - guess what happened to them.
> whether God actually spoke to him or not doesn't matter, as long as he thought that was the case, your claim is difficult to support
only if you don't care what is true...
>>52291423
2/3
>>52291547
3/3
t. http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
When muslims stop being violent
Please don't quote single surahs out of context ;))
5:33
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
>>52291411
I see, thanks m8
>>52271595
i'm a hare's breath from doing something drastic about you muslim cunts here
not going to mention the weaponry though inb4 fbi
>>52275821
>I have no clue what I'm talking about: the post
You know Afghanistan used to be Buddhist right?
Or the muslim conquest of India
Or that a religion of peace doesn't get along with "the religion of peace"
http://youtu.be/GtAl9zJ3t-M
>>52291929
yeah, give the media another reason to push their "muh racist islamophobes" crying and meanwhile push restrictions of freedom of expression and similar because of this.
That is really the last thing we need, very counter-productive.
Terrorist attacks on Western soil is much better to open people's eyes and shut up the leftist media. It may sound cynical but it's reality.
But a dumbfuck doing drastic shit is the last thing we need, I hope you are smart enough to realize this.
>>52292353
i kind of do, but i'm ill of all this shitposting and attention these precious warmongers get
nothing is rational in this mess anymore and the media you mentioned aren't changing their mind regardless of what happens
