This is the most underappreciated Empire
>>52257766
nah it's american empire
t. Mehmet-Al-Bimbdullah Örzögyl
>>52257801
why do you think a native gernan cant appreciate the Ottoman Empire?
>>52257766
NO FUCK THAT
YOU FUCKING KILLED ROME.
>>52257853
Ottoman Empire was the direct successor of Roman Empire
>>52257853
I believe there were some Ottomans that believed after Byzantium, they were the successors to Rome
WE
>>52257766
>germany flag
>praising the ottomans
mehmet... I
>>52257873
that'd be russia
>>52257932
>you have to be Turk to like ottomans
nice meme. so if i was praising roman empire, would you assume i was italian?
>>52257951
Russians claims of beeing the "third Rome" are dubious, at best
>>52257956
Why on earth, if you were German and not a Turkish German, would you praise the empire which risked your very existence when it was invading Europe?
The Ottoman empire was built on the carcass of the Byzantine empire.
>>52257975
who's the heir of Constantinople,their enemies who stole their land or their spiritual successor ? looks pretty straightforward to me
>>52258003
Because all this happend centuries ago and I can appreciate the merits of Ottomans from a neutral point of view.
>>52258039
The title of Roman Empire was counquered by rivaling generals dozens of times.
Are you saying all of those Emperors werent Roman, either?
>>52257956
no, praising the roman empire is normal for any european as the romans were a major cultural, economic and civilization force on the continent
however being fascinated by asians, who were determined to wipe out the european civilization and replace it with their orientalism is abnormal
Sure, some rare individuals of european descent might find it interesting, as statistics go judging by your flag and posts it is far more likely for you to be a mehmet.
>>52258117
I dont understand your negativity
Your country experienced the pleasure of beeing part of the Ottoman Empire on the first hand.
>>52257766
>Europe
>>52258226
a week b8, m8
you can do better than that
>>52257766
t. Mehmet Öztürk aus Berlin Kreuzberg
>>52257766
Proved brown people can beat whites if they get organized desu. Unfortunately they were also mudslimes so they deserved to crumble and die
>>52258340
well, all bants aside, i think it is really admireable how Ottoman Empire was really tolerant for its time and let it subjects have their own cutlure and religion
>>52258117
But they were latins and were besieged by germanic barbarians, so shouldn't >>52258117 logic apply as well ?
>>52258003
Germany and Ottomans were allies
>>52258407
All smart empires are tolerant of the conquered until such a time as they become the majority and can persecute the minority, the christians did it in the Roman empire, the Caliphates did it, the mongol successors did it after they converted to Islam.
>>52258428
Germany didn't even exist back then
>>52258226
>pleasure
Oh yeah who doesn't love having to pay more taxes because you believe in a different God than your overlord, get occupied for hundreds of years, with serious economic, cultural and populational impacts?
>>52257766
t. Mehmet Cengiz Özgul Aydın Khan Böhtanoğlu
Memes aside though I admire their practice of capturing French and Italian women into their harems
>>52258474
German Empire/Prussia/Bismarck
Whatever you want to call that entity at the time
>>52258503
There were two powerful German states back then, Prussia and Austria.
>>52258428
When are you referring too? There is a lot of history, i'm assuming your referring to world war 1.
An ottoman empire of 140,000 stood at the gates of Vienna in 1536, if Vienna (the then leader of the Holy Roman Empire, and thus the German states.) had fallen the german territories would have been next.
>>52258407
>tolerant
diaspora t*urk detected.
its funny how you idiots believe that your shitty empire was any good, when in reality it was just as oppressive as anyone would expect from a muslim state.
shittiest 'empire' of them all, the only thing that it left behind it as legacy is constantinople and that was built by christians
>>52258499
>without serious economic, cultural and populational impacts
fixed that for you, senpai
>>52258503
Your talking about the 19th century, where the ottomen were seen as the sick man of Europe. The HRR was never fond of the turks
>>52258561
>Mehmets unironically believe this
Pray tell, how did the Ottoman occupation of the Balkans NOT alter the culture, economy and population of the region significantly?
>>52258560
funfact, the evil opressive Ottoman Empire sent ships full of food to the suffering Irish population, but your Queen rejected the humanitary aid because it would have made her look bad in comparison
>>52258608
maybe because they are still Christian, even after centuries of occupation?
>>52258646
Albania isn't
They forced Islam onto the Balkans and ensured it would remain in a state of perpetual war. Centuries of european culture destroyed
>>52258646
Albania and Bosnia are (plurality or majority) Muslim.
Besides that, Rumelia had to pay the jizya so that they could retain their faiths, and they got conscripted into the janissaries. I don't think that's very tolerant.
>>52258721
different times, but they still were far more tolerant than European powers.
Or what do you think happend to muslims in Spain, after Reconquista
>>52258808
That's because they would have fallen apart if they didn't implement those practices.
Spain could afford to do it, Turkey couldn't.
Besides, main point we're arguing here is that the Ottomans significantly changed the economic, cultural and demographic landscape of the area.
>>52258871
>the Ottomans significantly changed the economic, cultural and demographic landscape of the are
can you elaborate that? How exactly did Ottomans change Balkans in those regards?
>>52258909
That doesn't need elaborating.The borders and demographics of Bosnia would be vastly different if it wasnt for Ottomans, duh. I won't go into economy since that will be just an unprovable shitfest
>>52258909
The Turks killed most of the Balkan nobility when they invaded, and enslaved a bunch of young girls who eventually ended up in harems.
Christians were encouraged to convert to Islam, and Albania and Bosnia have plurality Muslim populations at the very least today. Religion is a significant part of culture, so there's that.
Ottomans also fucked trade up in the entire region. Venice used to own Corfu, Durazzo, the Archipelago (Cyclades), etc., but the Ottomans basically curbed Italian influence in the Balkans.
Not to mention all the wars that were fought.
And remember the main motivation for Spain to discover the New World was because the Ottomans cut the spice trade.
If the Ottomans did not exist/lost at Manzikert/whatever, the Balkans would be much more Italian, Albania might be Italian today, and Bosnia and Belgrade Hungarian. It might be much richer because the Ottomans controlled the Dardanelles, and there wouldn't be Muslim European states.
BIZ SULTANLAR VE SULTANALAR VE BOK
>>52259134
so its better to get cucked by italians than by ottomans?
>>52259134
Lets not forget the christian boys they turned into slave soldiers.
>>52259176
How did I say it's better?
What I'm proving is that the Ottomans significantly changed the culture, economy and the demographics of the Balkans.
I didn't say one was better than the other.
>>52259193
Yeah, I brought the Janissaries up earlier.
>>52258003
>The Ottoman empire was built on the carcass of the Byzantine empire.
The ottoman existed way before the fall of the byzantine empire
>>52259176
Compare pre 1914 Croatia/Slovenia, ruled by an empire with the same religion as Thiers, with most of the other Balkan states.
>>52259247
The Ottoman beys and sultans took advantage of the decline of the Byzantines and their dominance over the other beys. I think that's what he's trying to say.
>>52259176
Since modern world is founded on western values and culture - yes. There's a reason why the Balkan countries that took islam the most, are the worst off.
>>52259208
Every Empire does that though. I would like to remind of the foreful convertion of pagans in Europe, which is arguably much worse then what Ottomans did
>>52258003
>Why on earth, if you were German and not a Turkish German, would you praise the empire which risked your very existence when it was invading Europe?
You don't need to be friend with someone to respect him.
For example,I hate everything about the nazi ideology but I respect the third Reich commanders for being able to conquer almost all of Europe
>>52259247
Excuse me? The Ottomans were directly based in the conquered lands in Asia minor, sure they were conquered by the Seljuks, and not the Ottomans, but those lands still constituted the Byzantine empire at the time and the Ottomans finished the conquest.
It wasn't underrated until it declined massively. The worst thing that happened was it created a bunch of greeks with very minor amount of turk in them praising Islam and pretending they are borderline mongol.
>>52259319
>German ability to stay on topic
All I'm doing is refuting your comment in >>52258561, I'm not condoning any other Empire's shitting on people.
>>52259319
>foreful convertion of pagans in Europe
Outside of the Baltics it was mostly people converting because:
1. Roman influence
2. Christian priests broke their sacred rocks and trees proving the pagan gods didn't exist
3. King converting for better connections to the more developed and Christian south
4. Local elites converting to get an excuse to take land from rivals
>>52259319
Didn't the ottoman allowed other religions to exist in Istanbul?
>>52259297
I don't think back then, Ottomans knew that western countries would be more progressive 500 years in the future.
And who knows, maybe islamic country will lead in 500 years from now
>>52259388
So we can agree that back then, every Empire treated they subjects badly by todays point of view?
And Ottomans may have treated their subjects less badly than others.
>>52259517
>I don't think back then, Ottomans knew that western countries would be more progressive 500 years in the future.
true, but irrelevant. doesn't change how things are now, which we're discussing
>And who knows, maybe islamic country will lead in 500 years from now
true, but irrelevant. doesn't change how things are now, which we're discussing
>>52259570
Yes, to a certain extent I guess.
>every Empire treated they subjects badly by todays point of view
I can't say that for sure with only knowledge of European and Islamic empires.
>>52259319
Tell me more about the cultural impact Russia had on Finland or Poland, or the austro-spanish cultural impact on the Netherlands (I don't mean only the country)
>>52259517
The point is the ottomemes refused to innovate like western Europe did, falling into relative decline, culminating in the 19th century
>>52259619
yeah, they fucked up in the 19th century, but they were pretty good in 15th and 16th century
>>52259619
>Tell me more about the cultural impact Russia had on Finland or Poland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification
>>52259597
so are you blaming Ottomans that they didn't forsee how things would happen at a speficif point 500 years in future?
>>52259619
>Tell me more about the cultural impact Russia had on Finland or Poland
Both Russian Finland and Congress Poland lasted for about a hundred years, and I believe they were autonomous.
Ottomans owned the Balkans for much longer, though.
>>52259643
>Pretty good.
Thousands dead, millions enslaved. Entire cultures subjugated and religions suppressed. Ancient countries destroyed.
>>52259619
>The point is the ottomemes refused to innovate like western Europe did, falling into relative decline, culminating in the 19th century
it's the curse of empires. all recources goes to huge wars and no time for innovation. even petrarca's himself felt despair against ottomans and he invented humanism which leads to renaissance lolekek
>>52258687
Please increase Armenia at Kurdistan's expense, I need a reason for them to leave. Besides, Kurt should be shrewd enough to enrich themselves off trade with the larger neoArmenia.
>>52259643
I'm not saying the Ottoman empire wasn't impressive back then- hell, I don't think other "countries" used cannons as siege weapons, the idea of using janissaries and the jizya or whatever, it was a military power that conquered a lot of land and was feared by most of their neighbours. However it is impossible to say that the Ottomans didn't negatively impact the Balkan countries during these centuries of occupation. Again, compare Slovenia/Croatia, even pre 1867 Hungary with the other Balkan states
>ctfl+f
>no ceddin deden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErgSS6DzaCk
>>52259978
>compare Slovenia/Croatia, even pre 1867 Hungary with the other Balkan states
:(
no wonder Hunfags are so depressed
>>52257873
mehmet detected
>>52259134
But sempai trade continued out of wartime there were even ottoman merchants all the way here in amsterdam.
Anyone who has played EU4 hates the Ottomans 2bh lad
>>52260726
What I'm saying isn't that the Ottomans stopped trade, but changed its entire flow.
>>52260729
I hate Venice more tbqh
>>52260729
Not with the new alliance system.
>>52260729
Ottomans are mad underpowered in every GS game tho.
Not to mention how their predecessors the Seljuks are barely included in CK2, makes my ire rise every time!
>>52260083
The 20th century was pure suffering for them
>>52259424
More like convert to get power or convert because you don't give a fuck/didn't want to get killed
