Am I a bad person for thinking that imperialism/colonization was a net benefit for most of the conquered peoples and good for human progress in general?
Yes. It is racist for you to think that way.
no. only new world keks think it was bad.
WHAT A BLOODY RACIST I DON'T BELIEVE IT
>>52182498
This, we did a great job Germany and I thank you for acknowledging it.
>>52182399
Fuck off nazi...
Calling to the Holocaust agencies right now
they had legit concentration camps, no?
>>52182399
It's only good if the conqueror's people replaces the natives, otherwise it's a shitfest.
>>52182399
NO!!!!!!
ITS 2015!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>52182399
Not bad, just uneducated and/or at the lower end of the bell curve.
>>52182694
brit guilt is real
Europeans ruined 4 continents
Destroyed so many cultures forever
Absolutely fuck them, you could visit modern Tenochtitlan today if not for whites
>>52182399
Its not bad, Its wrong. Colonialism only brought misery to the opressed.
I prefer good old genocide for moar of dat lebensraum
>>52182762
>Spanish
>white
>>52182762
>>52182399
It was a net benefit for your goverments. But you fucked rest of the world's shit up. More than half of problems world is facing today is consequences of everything directly or indirectly Western Empires have done.
And since you are not even sorry for it yes you are bad
>>52182762
>you could visit modern Tenochtitlan today if not for whites
no you couldn't because if not for whites you'd have no way of getting there in the first place
>>52182992
>muh ottoman empire was a good boi
>>52182697
Do you think Native Americans would be better off if they still lived without the wheel or modern medicine or electricity like total savages?
How about the natural resources of the American/African continent, should they just stay in the ground without anyone ever making use of them and thus restrain the rest of the world from achieving the full economic potential?
>>52183099
Are you literally so dumb that you cannot see any other means of that occurring besides colonialism? Besides most of the "colonialism" in North/South America was on unclaimed/unused land so your "argument" regarding natural resources is a moot point.
if we never colonized this shitfest i could be comfy in leiden right now.
is it too late to come back?
>>52183091
At least Ottomans did not touch people's culture, language or religion and did not exploit others to the point where they can not make a living without the ruling goverment. Ottoman Empire collapsed and everybody went their own merry way
>>52183099
what makes you certain they wouldn't have developed during the past 150 years? This argument is all about hypotheticals.
>>52183099
>Do you think Native Americans would be better off if they still lived without the wheel or modern medicine or electricity like total savages?
I guess they might still be, you know, fucking alive?
>>52183283
"Am I a bad person for.. "
>continues to state opinion which is held by almost everyone on this board
ask this shit on reddit you dumb fuck
>>52183275
Leiden is boring as shit
t. live there
>>52182399
Decolonization was much worse than colonization was in the first place.
Europe and the U.S. should have never abandoned their colonies.
>>52183283
Kidnapping and converting Balkans children to islam and sending the pretty girls to Turkish rape dens is just fine though?
>>52182399
It depends if you value freedom or security more. Are ISIS and Hezbollah good and progressive for building hospitals and schools in regions they conquer
>>52183431
delet this
>>52183370
>Leiden is boring as shit
WE WUZ SHOEMAKERS AND SHIT
>>52183349
Existence is overrated
t. German philosophy
>>52182399
The french built schools, hospitals, roads, bridges, and kept having relations with de-colonized countries so that we can still be friends and work together.
Meanwhile the germans did atrocious things in their colonies, killing, murdering and creating tensions between different ethnicities, leading to future wars and genocide.
So, yes, colonisation is a good thing, but only when it's done by nations of people who aren't complete edgy psycopaths.
>>52183512
come home white man, study here, best university in the country fAm
>>52183393
Edgy teenager detected.
Colonization was a backwards economic system. The global free market economy is far superior to colonization for everyone involved and responsible for the development of modern world.
>>52182399
Peaceful trade would've been a bigger net benefit to the former colonies compared to greedy exploitation.
>>52183393
>US
>colonies
>>52182399
No, because it's true. Many african nations, for example, were better off in terms of education, healthcare, crime rate, infrastructure, technology, etc. when they were under colonial control than they are today.
Only difference between then and now is that black people are in charge instead of white people.
>>52183483
hahaha
got caught
Don't forget Armenia :^)
>>52182399
yes you are you racist cunt
>>52183688
2nd That.
>>52183431
They were taken as babies so they are not converts for a start. And if you were a father or mother at that time in Europe you would rather send your baby to be a Janissary rather than being a peasant. And rape thing is just made up
>>52183760
oh fug :DDDDDDD
>>52183621
already studied. have a life here. when things go south i will flee to south america since i have saved up enough to support myself there. I wont be able to afford to live in the netherlands and there is no way i will love on peoples welfare.
>>52183846
AM I FREE NOW?
No it must have been complete shit for the conquered people in most cases. Still though imperialism is fascinating and I wish I was there to take part in it. The British Empire was a work of art.
>>52182399
Give it a few hundred years and that will probably be the common view. Europeans today forget all the bad things the Romans did to their ancestors (e.g. the genocide inflicted on the Gauls purely for Ceasar's personal financial gain) and instead admire them for spreading civilisation across the continent.
One day, the British, Dutch, French, Portuguese, and Spanish will be admired for bringing civilisation to the furthest corners of the Earth, but I don't think we'll ever live to see that day. Our former colonies need time to recover from the humiliation of never developing a civilisation of their own and having to learn it by force from a people who weren't even of their own race.
>>52182498
you can type cuck now, cuck
>>52182641
The Brits put Afrikaner women and children in them during the Second Boer War. Then they starved them.
>>52183746
I would disagree. It would depend on which colony and which imperial power, but in most cases blacks werent allowed access to hospitals, schools, healthcare, or really any other development made by the colonizing power. All those amenities were usually reserved exclusively for colonists. Usually the only education or healthcare a black native could get would be from missionaries.
>>52182762
>Tenochtitlan
Yeah and be sacrificed. Sounds highly advanced.
>>52183977
>Our former colonies need time to recover from the humiliation of never developing a civilisation of their own and having to learn it by force from a people who weren't even of their own race.
Is that how modern Europeans view themselves in relation to the Romans? That would explain a few things.
>>52183977
we did not appreciate your concentration camps here that killed 25% of our women and children.
Maybe we will come do the same to you inbred british in a few years. the muslims are already softening you up.
>>52184102
Yes and get killed by the inquisition for reading certain book sounds much more civilized
>>52184202
Funny how you don't want to go back to hunting and gathering like you were when we found you.
>>52184257
Callate indio de mierda
>>52183977
>Europeans today forget all the bad things the Romans did to their ancestors (e.g. the genocide inflicted on the Gauls purely for Ceasar's personal financial gain) and instead admire them for spreading civilisation across the continent
Nope, europeans "forget" i because rome bring them better technology.You're talking about africans and 3rd world in general. Their opinion is kinda more important in my opinion not europeans.
And Rome conquered those regions, and settled down in there, they didn't colonize it.There where mixed, and and established new naions under new ideas and cultures.But did africans get those? They are still african, mainly uneducated(for various reasons) and educated ones prefer to flee their country.
I see your point, but there are more differences than you think.
>>52183349
Ehhhh at least in the Americas, caucasians would literally have to not even trade with them for them not to die. Small Pox introduced through trade is what really fuck their populations in North America.
>>52184185
No, read the last part. The Romans were a fellow European people. At least, that's the modern view. The historical view might've been more resentful.
>>52184202
Enjoying your computer and internet connection, nigger?
>>52183956
Of course you are free. Why be a Janissary while you can enjoy your debts am i right ? :D
>>52184329
it*, they were* nations* fug
>>52184329
Romans would generally genocide a region before settling, especially if it was a conquered territory. Mixing only really happened after the barbarians kept sacking Rome and Roman settlements.
>>52184325
Diselo a todos los bolis que estan en tu pais
>>52183977
>portugal
>>52182399
>imperialism/colonization was a net benefit for most of the conquered
Mostly not but
>good for human progress in general?
This might be correct
>>52184399
>>52184306
being an afrikaaner we were more pastoral farmers. We changed in the 1850's to crop sharing but england scotland irealnd wales new zealand canada and australian invaded us and literally salted our fields.
we did kill 2 for every one of us, your killing of our women and children included.
>>52184477
>american education
Really wondering how come there were so many jews left alive then
>>52184490
No tendrÃa que decÃrselo si ustedes hubieran hecho lo que tenÃan que hacer
>>52184516
t.alberto barbosa
>>52184363
I guess, though the Romans were a semetic race though who settled in the Italian peninsula suggesting that Western society truly was run by kikes since antiquity.
>>52184596
Wait so you're a Dutch coloniser? Irony
>>52183846
Your fine citizens also purchased slaves taken by Barbary Corsairs from the British Isles, Iceland and probably other areas. The men usually rowed galleys or other "fun labor" and the women were sold as concubines.
>>52184306
>Funny how you don't want to go back to hunting and gathering like you were when we found you.
>>52184363
>Enjoying your computer and internet connection, nigger?
are you fucking children?
The english has done nothing but fuck up this country. Every fucking road every power plant every harbour here has been built by afrikaaners. You have been nothing but filth here. Invaders.
>>52184721
Strangely enough europeans and eastern africans reached South Africa at about the same time and ended up displacing the bushmen who were the actual natives of that area.
>>52184705
Si no saben controlar sus fronteras no es nuestra culpa
>>52184802
Since you were complaining about colonisation I assumed you wouldn't be a coloniser yourself.
>>52184631
Umm the Romans genocided the shit out of the Jews in Judea. Ever heard of the Jewish diaspora?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora#Dispersion_of_the_Jews_in_the_Roman_Empire
>>52183688
>>52183820
>European education
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._colonial_possessions#/search
>>52184886
t.morisco venido de Ceuta
>>52184937
Diaspora and genocide is not same thing
>>52182399
You're not a bad person for thinking that, you're just wrong.
The idea of spreading european civilization wasn't bad in itself, but the way it was done was.
>>52184892
not arguing with a piece of shit.
>>52184998
Go home Dutchfag
>>52182399
cuck
>>52184743
True. But there were practical differences between the slaves as western people know it and Ottoman slaves. Slaves in Ottomans were still respected as humans and they all had chance to achieve high status. So Ottoman system was much more humane than any other existed at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Ottoman_Empire
>>52184985
No but it was the Roman genocide of Judea that was responsible for the Jewish diaspora. Anyway Im talking about Jews, not Armenians, go deny genocides in another thread Mehmet.
>>52184984
Todos los argentinos de acá son simpáticos y agradables, supongo que lo peor del paÃs se quedará
It had its good sides and bad sides. I think it is proven that European colonization improved the life expectancy and standard of living fwtw. However, at the same time it also killed people.
>>52183820
>>52183688
>What is the Phillipines
>What is the Panama Canal
>What is Haiti
>What is 80% of the Polynesian islands
>>52185026
make me inbred pale and puny engelsman
>>52185079
You autistic retard, I don't even post single shit about armenians ITT.
>>52183673
Yeah, but they could have introduced proper free market principles when they decolonized. Instead they simply left and everything they built went to shit
That's why I'm saying decolonization was worse than colonizing in the first place, because they didn't give them the political systems necessary to ensure success.
>>52185135
so you admit the armenian genocide?
>>52183688
>>52183820
I'd be embarresed if I was you two
>>52185101
Technically natives were killing each other the same as European's killed Europeans before colonization. In fact they still are. The race or ethnicity of who kills you isn't really important.
>>52185264
I said, I didn't post anything about it.Not sure you can read properly.
>>52185294
Yeah but Europeans wiped most of the native North Americans right off the map.
>>52185107
>Haiti
What? We went there a few times as a military but they weren't a colony.
>>52185320
so you deny it?
fuck britain a little
they destroyed kumasi
>>52185359
Keep trying
It's funny because Europe is getting a taste of their own medicine now. I'm looking forward to the destruction of the white race and upbringing of their asian superiors.
>>52185361
>>52185381
you are muslim scum.
admit it when it suits you. deny it when it suits you. I hope russia glasses you fucking cockroaches.
ps allah was fucked by a pig and shat out a turd they called mohammed.
>>52185349
>American Education
In September 1915, the United States Senate ratified the Haitian-American Convention, a treaty granting the United States security and economic oversight of Haiti for a 10-year period.[16] Representatives from the United States wielded veto power over all governmental decisions in Haiti, and Marine Corps commanders served as administrators in the departments. Local institutions, however, continued to be run by Haitians, as was required under policies put in place during the presidency of Woodrow Wilson.
The US administration overhauled — if not dismantled in perpetuity — the already tottering constitutional system, reinstituted civil conscription for building roads, and established the National Guards.[17] It also made massive improvements to infrastructure: 1700 km of roads were made usable; 189 bridges were built; many irrigation canals were rehabilitated; hospitals, schools, and public buildings were constructed; and drinking water was brought to the main cities.
>>52185336
Disease did more than war in North America. A lot of their land was lost when they'd ally with our enemies who would loose. Also our weapons made a huge difference as the Musket Wars in New Zealand indicated.
>>52185551
top lel, I love you too :^)
>>52182399
>that imperialism/colonization was a net benefit for most of the conquered peoples and good for human progress in general?
You're not a bad person - just an idiot.
What's up with this Seth Efriken lads? Why is he so angry?
>>52182992
>everyone blames Britain and France for the current state of the Middle east
>Ottomans literally and actually drew the country lines when they first conquered them
yee lmao
>>52185638
lel away muslim. the world is slowly waking up. it is 2 completely opposing belief systems you will be ground to dust.
Deus Vult and Bovina Sancta!
>>52185778
cant one hate muslims and poms without always being asked why?
>>52185895
I suppose
>>52185800
>>Ottomans literally and actually drew the country lines when they first conquered them
>Literally and actually
They took a stick and drew the borders out in the sands between Iraq and Syria?
>>52185585
If natives hadn't died to disease I doubt America would've been conquered. There were a lot of people there before first contact.
>>52185929
You'll find more than sand on the Iraq/Syria border
>>52184892
> coloniser yourself.
>muih heritage
>>52185968
This, however It would have been conquered later when european military developed further.
>>52185929
percy snoodly longname smythe was there i bet.
I am so happy english soldiers are being beheaded in the streets of their cities.
They really deserve it. Been asking for it for 300 years.
Have your pudding poms! Hope it is as sweet for you as it is for 1.5 billion other people
>>52182399
No. Because it was.
>>52183590
like Algeria
>>52184892
>you wouldn't be a coloniser yourself
oh yea? who did you colonize yourself, you melt?
>>52182498
I wouldn't be here in the USA if not for colonization, i don't think it was bad
>>52185929
"Syria" as we know it today didn't even exist before the Ottomans made it a province. It was just Damascus and Aleppo w/ shitty sand people in between.
>>52182694
i mean come on
>>52183846
> you would rather send your baby to be a Janissary rather than being a peasant
Said no one ever. Reminder that janissaries victims were usually their own kin. Those people were brainwashed into killing parents, borthers and sisters.
>>52182992
>More than half of problems world
BS
>>52182762
paco, you aint aztec, you're partly spanish and partly whatever shitty little tribe the aztecs conquered before the spaniards got there.
>>52183688
We took some from spain in 1898
>>52186311
France sent shitloads of food to Algeria who couldn't sustain its rapid population growth that occured under french rule.
I don't think you'll find many other people who spent so much on their colonies than France.
Heck having colonies costed us money instead of earning us any.
Deconolonization was the problem though, abandonning Vietnam to those crazy communists that slaughtered a good chunk of the population was terrible for instance.
>>52186808
what about Burkina Faso?
>>52186158
t. Tyronium Mugabrape
>>52185361
FUCK THEM!...but only a little
>>52185968
you're probably right, we might have got a few settlements on the east coast, but not much more. That's assuming the various tribes stood united, of course, and didn't ally with the Europeans for the sake of using their tech on their neighboring tribes.
>>52186906
Johannes Pretorius actually.
>>52182399
You should watch Africa Addio, it's a really great film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8om8-DnVTU
>>52182399
No, it just depends on how you say it.
t. half Congolese
>>52187581
your link is dead
>be canadian and post dead link
>feel relevant
>>52182399
yeap.
It was good for colonisators, the less developed nations would have gotten to the developed stadium sooner or later. Those who aren't capable of such levels would have stayed where they were. Without no pointless killing and such
>>52186157
No I mean like settlers wouldn't have been successful displacing the population and american nations would've gained independence much like the asian or african colonies.
>>52187667
My bad, I have it downloaded on my PC so I just posted an old link I saved a while back
I'm sure you can find a working link from the title somewhere
>>52187732
No, they wouldn't. Without external conquest they'd remain in tribal status for probably thousands of years. The same would happen for non-Mediterranean Europe if the Roman Empire hadn't conquered them.
>>52182399
Nah, once the leftist bias that pervaded universities will disappear and people will look at facts objectively, it'll be a common point of view again.
>>52187797
>The same would happen for non-Mediterranean Europe if the Roman Empire hadn't conquered them.
Not really, whilst Rome catapulted parts of Europe forward they don't deserve the credit for everything
Gaul wasn't as backward as people think and Roman conquest ended before getting too far into modern Germany, let alone Denmark, South Sweden, and Poland/Lithuania.
>>52188060
>Gaul wasn't as backward as people think and Roman conquest ended before getting too far into modern Germany, let alone Denmark, South Sweden, and Poland/Lithuania.
Without Roman Empire and later Christianity those parts would literally look like what Northern Finland did until today. The countries you mentioned also just got "civilized" by the uprising of Christianity. Otherwise the tribal life would have continued until far into the future.
This video actually explains it quite well how Africa would look. I'm not much into this kind of argument, but it's well done for once.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnN0RurtJWc
>>52188220
There's also a vid by the same guy about What if the Roman Empire never happened that goes into the story as well.
>>52187732
Angola was literally a mess of warring tribes before Portugal colonized it, there was no sense of nationality/country or community before and you can even argue about if there even is one today. People like to root for the underdog, but if you exclude Ethiopia and prime ancient Egypt, Africa has been more or less a consistent mess.
>>52189398
Are the blacks in portugal all from Angola? I went to Oporto and there are plenty
>>52189667
Other than Macau, all our colonies are black(ish) and they all came flooding in after the wars ended in '75. I'd say most all of them are from Angola and Brazil, yeah
>>52182992
>Turkey
>>52182399
