At what age did you realise the US is not even nearly as powerful as it pretends to be?
when I was 11 years old
>>51861106
i made a bunch of these
>>51861106
When I watched Independence Day
>>51861106
you're right
it's more powerful
>americans will unironically try to justify the vietnam war
>americans will unironically claim that we won the vietnam war
>>51861173
we tried to install a dictatorship lmao
>>51861173
>we
>>51861186
*prop up an unpopular colonialist regime
>>51861106
>Be Australian
>Lose war
>Blame Americans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Australia_during_the_Vietnam_War
You can't make this shit up
>>51861186
I actually have an old Yugoslav military handbook praising the Vietnamese as great warriors and masters of traps.
>>51861241
>masters of traps
Must've confused them with Thailand.
>>51861241
>masters of traps
>>51861106
The Vietnamese didn't have outdated weapons
AK47 > M16
australia was in that war too lel
>>51861293
>canagay
>>51861314
Shut the fuck up
>>51861297
t. Weapons Expert
>>51861377
>being so angry at Russia that you can't admit that they made a good gun once.
>>51861353
Why are you so upset? Was Australia not in the Vietnam War?
>>51861440
Germany has gotten smaller every time Australia has lost a war.
>>51861440
Australians on this board all will admit it was a mistake and that "we" lost because we have proper, unbiased history education in our schools. America only has brainwashing.
>>51861106
Daily reminded that we killed over a million Vietnamese with <60,000 dead, and the US Army/ Marine Corps won 95% of the battles they fought.
You should be ashamed Australia, you were there too
>>51861538
>>>/k/
go back to fucking your cousin you hick
>>51861513
We actually learn that it was a loss, and IRL few people (outside of caricature-tier rightards) will claim otherwise. You're just arguing with shut-in /k/uckolds.
2bh.
>>51861538
Our numbers are similarly impressive given our involvement, doesn't mean we won.
>>51861297
>>51861377
/k/ plz go
>>51861538
>he thinks war is decided by kill count
It's like Americans entire war history education is Call of Duty
>>51861350
>liking traps is gay
>>51861297
A lot of them would have had outdated shit.
>>51861538
>check out these numbers I just pulled out off my ass
>>51861435
>thinking that AK-47 is better
They're both guns but AK is an outdated platform.
>>51861106
>the second most advanced IADS in the world
>manned by heavily trained missiliers with Soviet support personnel
>outdated
>>51861173
The Vietnam War had the best soundtrack.
>>51861597
Make me
>>51861707
AK-47 is the Swiss Knife of guns
it's fucking powerful, reliable and easy to assemble
>>51861513
You learned about Vietnam, huh? Well then you of course know that the Vietnam War was one of the most unpopular wars in American history and that America withdrew partially due to overwhelming public opposition, right? We aren't taught that we won the war, we're taught that it was a total disaster that helped produce some great rock music
But I guess the intellectual rigor that Australian history classes are so well known for might have slipped on that one point
>>51861572
I hate /k/ ever since /pol/ invaded and took over, so NO I WON'T
>>51861596
>>51861607
I never said we won. I was pointing out that the image ("who would win") is obviously the US Army, which won virtually every single engagement.
Just comes to show that even a spectacular military is still beholden to political realities. You can't prop up a dictatorship that doesn't have popular support, even with the most powerful army in the world.
>>51861663
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War
>Casualties and losses--North Vietnam & Viet Cong:
>444,000–1,100,000 military dead or missing
>1,100,000 military dead
You can apologize to me at literally any time.
>Ho Chi Minh asked us for help getting rid of the French after WWII
>We told him to "fuck off"
>Asian specialists in the State Department told us that Viet Minh were a popular anti-colonial movement
>We called them "fuckin libfags" and purged them in favor of European hardliners
>France warned us that the war was a total quagmire that couldn't be won short of atomic warfare
>We made "le surrender" jokes and went in anyway
I think we deserved it 2bh.
>>51861106
It's significantly more powerful. We neglect to enforce our preferences the vast majority of the time.
No one can match their might, tbf. Although I feel like their power has definitely been waning the last few years.
>>51861927
>the american gov. will send in its sons to die for nothing
how is that not treason?
>>51861892
Would this rare pepe do?
>>51861784
And has no modularity
>>51862049
You Fins really don't like to apologize do you?
>>51862053
Not like m16a1
>>51862043
>for nothing
Nonsense.
Many decent folks were employed by defense contractors such as Dow Chemical and Lockheed Martin. They get steady work making things like defoliating agents and fighter jets, while their children get to go and toughen up on adventures overseas.
Win/win.
>>51861784
>>51861440
Wasn't the caliber too big or something which made the bullets not shatter into the target which made it less deadly?
At least this is what veterans in a documentary said, so essentially the soldiers shot had a hole in their body but it was less likely to be deadly then the M16.
Also wasn't the M16 more accurate too?
Don't know much about weapons though.
>>51862138
wow
worse than jews
>>51861278
kek
>>51861106
Depends what you mean by powerful.
I've always known the US can't civilize savages without killing damn near all of them, our Indian wars and WW2 taught us that .
The question then becomes do you have the ability and the will to reach the absurd enemy body count and destruction of spirit necessary to change the behavior of the savages.
We certainly have the ability, but perhaps not the will. At least not right now.
>be amerinigger
>get sent to vietnam
>get frustrated that everyone around you is laughing at you because you are new and wont last 3 months
>everyone ridicules you because you will die
>creep trough the jungle
>it is humid, moist
>you hate it
>you are sweating
>you are scared shitless
>you step onto a trap
>a wooden spike shoots trough your leg
>it was cowered with infected Vietnamese diarrhea
>some yellow jungle nigger sprayed shit all over the trap to get his shit in you in a sneaky and violent way
>you die
>you are considered a hero
>you still lost the war
YOU DONT KNOW MAAAN YOU WERENT THERE!!!!
When I first noticed the topic on my pic, I realized the power of US propaganda.
They make such an useless thing a reason for pride and fear. They convinced the world they played a crucial role in WWII when actually if you read about it and see the numbers...they didn't. The war was nearly over. But they couldn't let the UK and the USSR get all the glories.
>>51864197
>the UK
>>51864197
US is the only reason allies won, you can try to use mental gymnastics any way you want but you wont get around that fact
>>51864237
The UK cracked the nazi code. And they used the knowledge of where each new attack would be extremely wisely. Some information was leaked to Russians also. And it played a key role on defeating the german army like it happened.
>>51864197
Why are brazilians commies?
>>51864197
WWII could not have been won without American industry. And without our military itself the Allies may have won eventually but it would have taken years longer and with many more deaths on both sides.
>>51861784
This
You can shove the AK-47 up in the ass of timo and it still works like nothing had ever happened.
>>51864292
Yeah, you guys defeated hitler's army.
Oh wait, that was the USSR.
You guys did a good job at arriving near the end though, congratulations on that.
>>51864406
>b-but we gave them some trucks and outdated military equipment
>>51862843
>all this from the country that literally, actually, factually owes its existence to based USA
I guess that they don't teach gratitude in Bosnia
>>51864317
The US made itself an enemy of the world desu.
Why did the US take so long to intervene in ww2 anyway?
>>51861538
>10 million russian soldires died vs 8 million german soldires
Numbers dont mean jack shit
Face it you lost to a bunch of farmers with ak47s
>>51864549
Because they didnt want to.
And then they got bombed to shit by the japs, now they couldnt lose face because theyve got a fragile ego and thus they got into the war
>>51864549
Because if they fought the entire war they could not brag and try and take all the creddit form the ruskies and the brits
>>51864317
We are not, I identify with the US way more. I just don't follow blindly American Propaganda.
>>51864341
>WWII could not have been won without American industry
False
>Without our military itself the Allies may have won eventually but it would have taken years longer and with many more deaths
True
Two major points:
German invasion of Russia in June 1941, Hitler lost a huge amount of his forces and resources. From there on, Germany was fighting a losing war.
In mid-1944, before D-Day, Russia was already unstoppable, even without an invasion of France. The part of the western allies was of course very significant. The threat of an invasion kept a significant part of the German forces in the West, and that surely helped a lot. But although it kept fighting fiercely, it could not stop Russia's continued advance all over Eastern Europe, towards Berlin. They simply didn't have the manpower.
>>51864549
We really didn't want to join either one.
It seems strange now, but also keep in mind we're talking about an America that would willingly elect openly socialist politicians.
Things were different.
The most important role of the US when we are talking about WWII, in my humble opinion, is the Marshall Plan.
Many people died of starvation post war, I wonder how many more people would have died on consequence of the war if it wasn't for the plan.
>>51864406
>>51864437
You kids are worse than the "IT WAS REALLY ABOUT STATES RIGHTS" Civil War revisionists. Literally no historian of any standing agrees with your lopsided view. Even Soviet historians acknowledged the US' huge industrial/economic contribution to defeating Nazi Germany. And to say that Britain contributed everything and we contributed nothing is just lazy trolling. Britain could not have invaded Normandy with US support, this is a fact. Same goes to the invasion of Italy (see: Battle of Crete).
Also, please recall that we took back the entire Pacific from the Japs, all of World War II is not just Europe.
And all this from two countries that did exactly jack and shit during the war. If you want this bait to work in the future, I would recommend getting on a proxy first so that you don't get laughed out of the thread.
>>51864840
most overlooked*
not exactly the most important.
>>51864569
You say that as if the AK was a terrible gun, also there were plenty of soldiers left over from them pushing out the French. Not to mention them getting funding from the other gommies. They were ready to let as many people die as possible before surrendering.
>>51864847
>we took the pacific back
wooo so america you are so great you took a couple of tiny islands back from chinqs with bolt action rifles
Oh and you might want to double check the australian role in ww2
>>51864847
>all of World War II is not just Europe.
The part that matters is.
The American-Japanese war could be treated as a separate war for all that matters.
>>51861106
At age did you realize you are our literal bitch?
>>51864993
The ak is not the point you the point is that the NVA wasnt more then a couple of farmers with old soviet left overs fighting a country with mutch well trained and supported soldieres
Ffs they didnt even have an airforce
>>51861209
You're right, our faggot neighbors were too busy prepping bulls as usual.
>>51865073
> Australian role in ww2
>>51864481
That must be why we are the NATO jewlord.
>>51864197
> Russians
> relevant
>>51864847
Kek, i think new Zealand served as a military base so they obviously won the war because you took advantage of something they offered.
>>51865260
>be american
>lose a bunch of territory to the japs
>scurry back to australia
>be australian
>japanese advance literally halted by reserve shoulders
>they only lose from then on
>>51865344
>russians
>the only way the usa can go in to space
Seriously mate i think its best you think very well before shit posting that stupid propaganda shit they teach you at school
>>51865354
>reserve shoulders
*soldiers, fucking autocorrect
>>51865180
They weren't going to get an airforce working so they just got some AA stuff from the gommies, that was enough considering it gave them enough punch to take down bombers. These farmers were trained by other soldiers who had fought in the war with the french, they weren't completely green. They were also very well disciplined for a militia force and as I said ready to die. Most of our casualties weren't even from direct confrontations they were from IEDs.
>>51865073
What the fuck did Portugal ever do in WW2? Oh, right, nothing.
>>51865426
I get honestly surprised how much americans fall for their government propaganda.
It's okay to be proud of your country without believing all the lies they tell you. You don't become a commie if you acknowledge the USSR role during the WWII.
>>51865506
>can accept reallity
>so tries to insult the other
So what did america do to stop napolean?oh right nothing
Do you see how retarded you look
>>51865426
Nigger, I literally live in Huntsville. I can tell you with a straight face that in less than 10 years, we will have cheap and efficient private and public spaceflight programs. Companies like SpaceX and Boeing are takin unprecedented steps toward privatized space exploration. Also, the whole "rely on Russians" thing is negligible, as we had a similar gap in capability between Apollo and STS. Once SLS is up and running, we will be on our way to Mars in the mid-2030s.
>>51865073
>australian role in ww2
You mean giving up ground until the US showed up?
Not to be overly rude, Australia did the best she could, but with literally 1/10th the population of Japan, what was there to do? Australia didn't really go on the offensive until America got there, and Japan didn't suffer their first defeat until Coral Sea (predominantly US Navy operation).
Please explain how Australia did most of the heavy lifting, or how Japan was a pushover.
>wooo so america you are so great you took a couple of tiny islands back from chinqs with bolt action rifles
Haha, funny :DDDD I can do it too, let me try:
hahaha battle of Berlin ooh big Russia, you killed mostly Hitler Youth cuz all the grownups were already dead
See how intellectually dishonest that is?
Two million military deaths for the Japanese.
Forty thousand plus military aircraft destroyed
We sank twenty five fucking aircraft carriers FFS
You do the math Alberto, it wasn't a cakewalk. Britain tried, Australia tried, China tried, no pushed Japan back except us (and the USSR if you count Khalkhyn Gol).
>>51865092
Would the USSR have still won the war without American material support? I don't think people realize just how close the USSR came to collapse. If Moscow had fallen, it would have probably been GG
Would they have won a one-front war? I.e. all of Germany focusing on Eastern Front, no Western/Southern front because no American involvement. I don't think they would have done nearly as well.
>>51865180
Are you insinuating that the North Vietnamese military did NOT, in fact, have a state-of-the-art modern Air Force?
>>51861186
ho chi mien was already a dictator.
>>51861241
>great warriors
why because we blew them into pieces just like you brave Slavic warriors. 20,000 viet cong got held off by 5,000 U.S marines in khe sahn
>>51865734
You see, American space exploration is, today, the best in the world. This is not what we are discussing.
I mentioned the fact that your government makes the man on the moon such a bigger deal than it actually is. It's pure propaganda. The curiosity rover and the Voyager are FAR more important things, but there is no fuss about it. The "we put a man on the moon" was just an elaborate play during the cold war. And it was necessary for the US propaganda since the Soviets were dominating the space exploration at the time.
I don't think anyone here questions NASA importance. We just laugh at how much you guys fall for the propaganda and feel proud for the things most advertised by your government, instead of the actual big accomplishments.
>>51861106
Considering this kills several 10 million dollar Abrahams tanks for like 100th of the cost, yeah a while ago.
The US really is the most powerful country in the world and no one stands even the most remote chance of invading it.
But it's laughable to pretend that the US stands a chance at invading an organized and modernized mid-level power, such as Iran, and not get stuck in another Vietnam.
Missile weaponry is just too effective for the cost, kinda reminds me of assassinating enemy commanders with the Aeon in SupCom.
And even if you have some legit anti-missile systems out there, they can easily be overwhelmed by sheer numbers of parallel missiles (which is what your average army would do and out of the reach for your typical Isis sandnog), again for a fraction of the cost.
Also they can threat to nuke and very few countries can threat to nuke back, but they can threat to send 1000 drones armed with smallpox to their major cities.
>>51865935
tbqh putting a man on the moon is just kind of cooler than all of the other shit, even if it is more important.
>>51864993
why are you even trying?
>>51861488
They even lost one to birds once, just to watch Germany whittle away.
>>51861513
We were taught that it was a draw, but even the most retarded among us saw the picture of the embassy getting evacuated and we knew.
>>51865964
That's exactly why it happened. Propaganda is often about cool stuff. It gets easier into simple minds, like farmers on the countryside that care shit about the edge of our galaxy.
Our government during the dictatorship played heavily on the world cups victory. It works wonders for propaganda because it's cool and make us feel patriotic. Because in the end, it's pretty much nothing.
>>51861784
>i literally know nothing about guns the post
AK-47s are inaccurate as fuck, its only good for retarded rice farmers and dune cones who can't preform proper maintenance on there weapons.
>>51861173
>>51861186
Up to 155,000 refugees fleeing the final NVA Spring Offensive were killed or abducted on the road to Tuy Hòa in 1975.[81] Sources have estimated that 165,000 South Vietnamese died in the re-education camps out of 1–2.5 million sent,[82][better source needed] while somewhere between 50,000 and 250,000 were executed.[83][84][85] Rummel estimates that slave labor in the "New Economic Zones" caused 50,000 deaths (out of a total 1 million deported).[83][84] According to the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, between 200,000 and 400,000 Vietnamese boat people died at sea,[86] although Rummel cites estimates ranging from 100,000 to 1,000,000.[84] Including Vietnam's foreign democide, Rummel estimates that a minimum of 400,000 and a maximum of slightly less than 2.5 million people died of political violence from 1975–87 at the hands of Hanoi.[84] In 1988, Vietnam suffered a famine that afflicted millions.[87]
Under the leadership of Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge killed 1–3 million Cambodians in the killing fields, out of a population of around 8 million.[88][89][90][91] The Pathet Lao killed some 100,000 Hmong people in Laos.[92][93]
what evil Americans we were, fighting such a benevolent government like north Vietnam. those millions of people who fled to the south didn't actually exist.
>>51866144
>>51865935
To me, it is just sad to see such a monumental achievement ignored out of spite. The amount of scientific knowledge gained during the development of the Apollo program was enormous. It advanced the ability of humans to live in space by leaps and bounds. You are correct though, the knowledge gathered in the process of landing on the moon was relatively insignificant, but the importance of landing on the moon was in its symbolism. The Soviets had a Lunar program as well, but it ended quite poorly. In fact, the crash of one of their N1 rockets resulted in a 7kt explosion..
>>51866144
>>51866206
>>51866197
Widespread use of terror. Murder, kidnapping, torture and general intimidation were a routine part of VC/NVA operations and were calculated to cow the populace, liquidate opponents, erode the morale of GVN government employees, and boost tax collection and propaganda efforts.[95] This extensive use of terror on a daily basis received comparatively little attention from Western journalists occupied with covering the big unit war.[96] Terror was meant to demonstrate that both the rural and urban dweller were powerless against the Viet Cong and that the government could not protect them. Terror extended beyond targeted murders and kidnappings, and included the frequent mortaring of civilians in refugee camps, and the placing of mines on highways frequented by villagers taking their goods to urban markets. Some mines were set only to go off after heavy vehicle passage, causing extensive slaughter aboard packed civilian buses.[96]
Another terror method involved deliberate random shelling of populated areas with 122-mm rockets. Areas victimized included Saigon, Danang and other major cities.[97] At other times the Viet Cong eschewed the use of stand-off weapons and directly attacked villages and hamlets with the express intention of killing men, women and children to sow havoc, panic and insecurity. A 1968 attack on the hamlet of Son Tra in Quang Ngai province for example, used flamethrowers to incinerate 78 civilians, wounded many more, and destroyed most of the hamlet.[98]
>>51866118
That is horseshit. It doesn't have the accuracy of, say, an AR-15, but it is quite accurate out to around 200yds. The distances at which firefights occurred in the dense jungles of Vietnam were much shorter than that.
>>51866248
Several spectacular incidents of terror stand out in VC/NVA operations, although these were not publicized in the Western media to the extent of the American-perpetrated My Lai Massacre.[100]
Hue: During Tet for example, Communist forces seemed to have carefully planned for mass killings, with prepared hitlists carried both by the invading VC units and local infrastructure operatives. One of the sites of the worse atrocity was the city of Hue.
Civil servants, officers, teachers and religious figures were rounded up first and executed after quick "revolutionary" trials. A second roundup fingered leaders of civic organizations, intellectuals, professionals and individual civilians and their families who had worked for the Americans. A barber for example who had cut the hair of Americans had both his hands cut off before being liquidated.[101]
The greatest number of people eliminated however appeared to be during the Viet Cong retreat from the city. They were usually shot and buried in well-concealed mass graves that were eventually to yield some 2,800 corpses. Lack of visible wounds on some bodies, including 2 Catholic priests, indicated that they had been buried alive.[3][101] The 2,800 bodies in Hue were part of a larger group of some 5,800 civilians in the city targeted in Viet Cong attacks for liquidation or abduction. Most of the remaining victims have never been found.[101]
Dak Son: 1967 the VC used flamethrowers to incinerate 252 civilians, mostly women and children at the village of Dak Son, in Phuc Long Province.[3]
Phu Tan: In 1970, at the village of Phu Tan, near Da Nang, the NVA killed an estimated 100 civilians as they huddled in bunkers for shelter, by tossing in grenades and satchel charges.[3]
>>51865942
Can someone at least think about this?
>>51865942
>>51866295
I think we could invade most countries and be able to take control of the government and the land, but controlling the population is a whole different story. Fighting guerrilla warfare and shit is next to impossible no matter how good your military is.
I don't know enough about military tech to dispute your point or not, but my gut says that we could successfully implement of takeover of the government a la Iraq without too much trouble in most countries.
>>51865843
>just said for him to check australian role in ww2
>he get on the offencive and starts talking about heavy lifting an shit
Calm down there you need a xnax or anything like that?
Now to the part i burst you tiny propaganda filled bubble
Yes 2 million japs congrarz they probably would kill them selfs any ways
>Forty thousand aircraft destroyed
Hahaha no just no they didnt heven make that many aircraft
>we sank twenty carriers
You have a better navy congratz
Face it the soviets did way more the usa im from a neutral country that has no influence from any of the sides and i can say that russia did way more its just a fact
>>51861106
>>51865942
Honestly, the thing that counters your argument here is that the US doesn't generally rely on frontal tank assaults unless they are facing an enemy that is known to be unable to counter it. Modern US doctrine calls for total aerial superiority, and flexible air support/ effective surveillance is ALWAYS better at winning battles and wars than things such as portable ATGMs, IEDs, minefields, and even armored support.
>>51866197
>Under the leadership of Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge killed 1–3 million Cambodians in the killing fields, out of a population of around 8 million.[88][89][90][91]
How ironic that those very same Khmer Rogue ended up being overthrown by the Vietnamese and backed by the US.
>>51865092
The thing is that World War II consists of both parts. That's why it's, y'know, a world war.
>>51861231
>Be German
>Start war
>Blame Jews.
>>51861106
I had the opposite experience these days. honestly I had have thought Japan was half as powerful as the US, which actually was not true and their GDP has been growing constantly since 1980 while my country on and off.
I thunk only powerful countries can manage to do this. don't you think so?
>picrelated blue is the US, red China, yellow Japan
>>51866433
>Hahaha no just no they didnt heven make that many aircraft
Wrong
>You have a better navy congratz
Almost like that's half an entire military or something
>>51865180
desu we could have easily taken over all of Vietnam if invading North Vietnam didn't mean risking war with China and/or the USSR.
>>51866513
source.
we funded the Khmer people's national liberation front, which is not the same as pol pots Khmer rogue
>>51866564
your powerful Japan, once you create Robots to replace cheap Chinese child labor you will be a force to be reckoned with.
>>51861173
Bro have you ever talked to a South Vietnamese? Of course the war was justified, it was just a tragedy the way it went.
>>51866767
more like cheap Vietnamese labor these days
>>51866454
About Air-Superiority, I've seen nothing but good from Russian SAMs and nothing but disappointment with your newest aircraft, Lockheed Martin seems to really have dropped the ball for this one.
And keep in mind the point isn't making the best tech, which you clearly do, it's making it whilst being cheap enough not to be countered by spamming lower-tier options.
>>51866417
We'll agree to disagree then but I've always wondered if you thought you could pull off an Iraq with other countries. Who knows, maybe you can, it's certainly plausible.
>>51861106
>Australian """"""""military""""""""
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War
>>51866716
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge
"Western governments [including the US] voted in favor of the Coalition Government of Democratic Kampuchea retaining Cambodia's seat in the organization over the newly installed Vietnamese-backed PRK, even though it included the Khmer Rouge."
"The Khmer Rouge, still led by Pol Pot, was the strongest of the three rebel groups in the Coalition Government of Democratic Kampuchea which received extensive military aid from China, Britain, and the United States and intelligence from the Thai military."
>>51861752
tell me one song
>>51866809
from what ive heard from people in the military who have done those war games and Simulations. a modern conflict between two nations like the united states a Russia would result in so many casualties so quickly we would run out of men pretty quickly, imagine the eastern front but multiplied several times.
>>51861173
The USA annihilated the Vietnamese army. It was a military victory, not a political. We pulled out long before the fighting stopped. We probably could have ended up winning politically if we kept troops in Vietnam. Just because the war was a political failure doesn't mean we automatically lose all of our might/glory/etc. and it certainly doesn't mean our military got destroyed by some poor starving farmers.
That's like saying the U.S. navy was shit because one shitty Japanese plane could destroy it by crashing into it.
>>51866913
It ain't me
We lost the war
But won their hearts
SOME FOLKS WERE BORN MADE TO WAVE THE FLAG
>>51866917
Obviously if there is a winner in an American-Russian war, it isn't going to be neither Russia nor America.
I was implying a scenario in which Putin lets some of that Russian tech "slip" into Iran from one of the private contractors manufacturing the weapons, because we all know he isn't above it.
>>51867001
OOOOH THE RED WHITE AND BLUE
>>51861106
>>51864197
That entire pic is propaganda. No proof the earth is even round.
These are the same viets that btfo the mongols back then
