Why are most of my fellow European brethren so afraid of guns, and why do they argue FOR gun control in times of increasing terrorist threats? Do they not realize that "be american, get shot" is only a meme that applies to blacks and latinos, and that the safest US states are the most heavily armed US states?
I can't for the life of me figure out why everyone on this continent is a complete kek. No matter what one's argument is, they reply with "m-muh statistically irrelevant mass shootings" or any of the tens of other faulty anti-gun arguments. It's a hopeless circle of misinformation and ignorance - which is ironic, considering how widespread the "americans are dumb"-meme is in the Old World. No, you serf-minded plebs aren't any smarter than americans.
>tfw I will never be a free man
Hold me, ameribros.
>>51683554
>c u c k is censored into "kek"
Goddamn gook shits.
>>51683554
>no one is responding to my thread
I guess it shows the intellectual level displayed on this board. When reasoning becomes too clear-cut and sound, /int/ panics and hides under the kitchen table.
You got tired of your swiss proxy uh fattie.
My man, you're 100% right.
>>51684792
Fuck off burgerking
>>51683554
>my fellow European brethren
enrico garcia-gonzalez, aren't you supposed to be building that wall right now?
Because HAVING to walk around with a gun in order to be/feel safe is ridiculous for a European country.
>>51685657
it isn't now :^)
>>51685700
Sadly, yes. Because Schengen was a decent idea, but Frontex never got anywhere near the funding they needed for proper border control.
>>51683554
because most europeasants are afraid of personal responsibility and possessing the capacity to harm or kill another human requires a large amount of personal responsibility.
>>51685745
>but Frontex never got anywhere near the funding they needed
wonder why
Pro-gunners are truly pathetic.
>>51683554
"If we exclude minorities everything is fine!" Geez, soon whites are minorities in both USA and Europe, so better start thinking better arguments.
>>51683554
I would be very uncomfortable knowing the people that I know could just get a handgun
>>51683554
Many people value safty over freedom often they even ask for even more regulations. The media here is left/green so they hate guns and often state only half truth, lies or false facts and the state dosnt want is population armed, for decades it wasnt necessary because life was very safe here but now with more people native or imported being poor and general fustration towards goverment actions/inactions they dont want some fractions to fight back against the state becoming even bigger and more involved in the aspects of everyday life
>>51683554
I'm afraid of shootings on the streests if it would be too easy to get guns. Here only gangsters and police use guns. And gangsters shoot at each other, not at innocent people. Last shooting in my neoghbourhood was 13 years ago and guess who shot whom.
>>51685657
>Because HAVING to walk around with a gun in order to be/feel safe is ridiculous for a European COUNTRY.
I'm not talking about whether one "has" to carry a gun or not, but rather about whether one should be able to, should one so choose.
PS. Judging by how things are going in America, you wouldn't "need" a gun in the most gun-dense areas - assuming they're majority white, of course.
>>51686041
>Geez, soon whites are minorities in both USA and Europe, so better START thinking better arguments.
The right to bear arms is a natural extension of the right to self-defense. There, no more arguments needed.
>>51685963
>says the ex-commie who should know better
>>51686121
>Many people value safty over freedom often they even ask for even more regulations.
That's a faulty argument. You aren't any more safe in Finland than in many heavily-armed US states.
>>51686175
>I'm afraid of shootings on the streests if it would be too easy to get guns
Why? People don't start killing just because they have access to arms, you know.
>And gangsters shoot at each other, not at innocent people.
Who is going to stop the police (and the state) when they go overboard? How will you stop an aggressor, if not with a gun? (i'm pretty sure that violent crime isn't non-existent in Poland)
>>51688552
*aren't any safer
>>51683554
>Do they not realize that "be american, get shot" is only a meme that applies to blacks and latinos, and that the safest US states are the most heavily armed US states?
America's whitest state is Maine at 96% whites. The Maine population is 1.33 million, Maine murder rate is 1.9 per 100,000 inhabitants
Britain is 87% white, population 61 million, its murder rate is 1.0 per 100,000 inhabitants
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Why are white americans so violent? Is it because their genital skin was ripped off from them when they were children?
Nobody gives a shit about guns. We are scared about the real issue:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Yoshihiro_Hattori
Thats a horrible society that even allows such a thing.
>>51688683
>Why are white americans so violent?
PS. Maine doesn't have the lowest murder rate of all US states, but even ignoring this, CC and purchasing guns without a license is possible in Maine, whilst neither are possible in Britain, and yet they have nearly the same murder rate.
>>51688683
>britain
The country that doesn't count a murder as murder unless someone is convicted for it. Top kek if you seriously want to compare their "statistics" to anyone else's.
>>51688860
>Nobody gives a shit about guns.
Your EU overlords seem to give many shits about them. Have you been living under a rock recently?
>>51686041
>Geez, soon whites are minorities in both USA and Europe
Good luck, Europe.
As for us, so what? If you're a race-obsessed loser, you don't belong here.
>>51685906
A big part of politics is not dealing with long term budget issues properly.
A supernational organization living on supernasional funding won't get funded unless its funding is enforced hard in strict terms.
>>51689050
I am literally living in a state where a large part of our society is people masturbating over hunting, and enough people is exposed to hunting that there is no such thing over here.
That said, in another 20 years Oslo and the urban population might have gotten big enough for Hunters to be marginalized in the media. And it will be a horrible day.
>>51688860
>Hattori and Haymaker rang the front doorbell but, seemingly receiving no response, began to walk back to their car. Meanwhile, inside the house, their arrival had not gone unnoticed. Bonnie Peairs had peered out the side door and saw them. Mrs. Peairs, startled, retreated inside, locked the door, and said to her husband, "Rodney, get your gun." Hattori and Haymaker were walking to their car when the carport door was opened by Mr. Peairs. He was armed with a loaded and cocked .44 magnum revolver. He pointed it at Hattori, and yelled "Freeze." Simultaneously, Hattori, stepped back towards the house, saying "We're here for the party." Haymaker, seeing the weapon, shouted after Hattori, but Peairs fired his weapon at point blank range at Hattori, hitting him in the chest, and then ran back inside.[2] Haymaker rushed to Hattori, badly wounded and lying where he fell, on his back. Haymaker ran to the home next door to the Peairs' house for help. Neither Mr. Peairs nor his wife came out of their house until the police arrived, about 40 minutes after the shooting. Mrs. Peairs shouted to a neighbor to "go away" when the neighbor called for help. One of the Peairs' children later told police that her mother asked, "Why did you shoot him?"
what the fuck
Carrying guns won't stop crime, it simply means the criminals will use their guns to shoot you to avoid retaliation, instead of just intimidation.
>>51689171
>in another 20 years Oslo and the urban population might have gotten big enough for Hunters to be marginalized in the media
This saddens me. Also, it just reinforces my belief that most of the world's social problems could be helped by de-urbanization.
Man, am I looking forward to living in Vermont...
I'm sorry i can't answer your question OP as the UK isn't european.
>>51689221
Yet there are many instances of criminals being stopped by guns.
Gun ownership = decentralization of power
It's not about safety. I do not have to carry a gun. I live in a state with very free gun laws and I've never seen a gun fired outside of a range (or someone's backyard). I carry a gun for the same reason I wear a seat belt. There is a small chance it could be life saving.
Going back to deregulation of power. In a state where guns are illegal the power rests with the government and criminal organization. In a state where guns are legal, the power is not centralized. The power is distributed among the people.
Think about this. Western European governments could legitimately enslave their constituents. The military and police force hold 90%+ of guns. This is VERY unlikely, but it could happen. Now compare this to America. The American government could not so easily take over or enslave it's people. They would either have to bomb everyone (kill millions) or engage in a length ground war. Even if the U.S. government succeeded, it would take them a long time.
A weak resistance is better than no resistance. I do not believe western governments will do or are considering such measures. But what's important is that it's very possible for them to do so.
The founding fathers got it right.
>>51686041
>soon whites are minorities in Europe
Only in shit countries that don't know how to reproduce, or the stupid cunts who let in a million niggers every year... So bye Scandis, Germanics, and Brits.
>>51686121
More like people enjoy to alienate people who are doing something they are not.
The only people using guns are army, police, hunters and range shooters. Thats not a lot of people.
And guns entered public life somewhat unregulated, since arms development happened in large spikes of improvements. So there is regulations to be had.
>>51688552
>Who is going to stop the police (and the state) when they go overboard?
Lel, not some random cunts with small arms that's for sure.
>>51689469
>Ireland has gone from having the highest net immigration level in Europe in 2006 to the highest net emigration level in 2012
http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/generationemigration/2013/11/21/graphic-ireland-has-highest-net-emigration-level-in-europe/
>>51683554
Gun control isn't being against allowing people to own guns, it's being against people who shouldn't be allowed to have guns to not have guns.
Are you against people being forced to have a driver's license as well?
>>51689511
>Lel, not some random cunts with small arms that's for sure.
Maybe in your European countries, but over here citizens actually could. People own AK47s, AR15s, M16s, etc. A lot of those people could convert their guns into fully auto.
We may not win, but we could have a very lengthy and very bloody resistance.
>>51689603
Yea man, I'm sure those guns will do wonders against tanks and APC's.
>>51689408
Maybe you should read the quote you posted
The whole point is for a well regulated MILITIA, which they quickly realized was inferior to a standing army. It has nothing to do with what you think
>>51684792
get shot
>>51689213
The scariest part isn't that it happened, its that its not a freak accident. And you are living inside that society.
If USA collapsed over night, that would be a part of the horror stories, just like the Soviet food lines.
>>51689554
The problem is most measures do nothing to curb gun violence or crime.
>Gun control isn't being against allowing people to own guns, it's being against people who shouldn't be allowed to have guns to not have guns.
Then that would be simple background checks. This is what already happens. A lot of gun owners agree with these measures.
What we don't completely agree on is magazine restrictions (ineffective), "assault" rifle bans, no-gun zones (safe for alcoholic areas), etc.
>>51689004
>yet they have nearly the same murder rate.
Theirs is almost double ours. Such a rise in the murder rate is not an acceptable exchange in return for less gun control.
>>51689050
>The country that doesn't count a murder as murder unless someone is convicted for it.
Literally untrue.
>>51689524
>Polish people leave the country in the tens of thousands to go home when the economy collapses
>Irish people go to the US, Australia or UK.
>the economy has now recovered amazingly well
We have the fastest growing population in the EU due to having the highest birth rate and second-lowest death rate. We are also 94% white, and most of our migrants are other Europeans.
>>51683554
Guns are great
But the simple fact is that half the population anywhere is a collection of largely sub-normal cunts, then there's a decent lump of the genuinely stupid cunts and finally, completely fucking dumb cunts right over to the very far left.
You might trust the sub-normal cunts with something like a drivers licence at best or let them pick heavy things up and put them down again, but most you wouldn't really want having a firearm in any amateur capacity.
Genuinely stupid cunts, some 14% of the population are pretty much useless for anything except landfill on a good day... in the vain hope they might crawl into the bottom end of the sub-normal cunts section. You don't want them near a sharp stick, let alone a gun because they're genuinely stupid and stupid is as stupid will probably do on a long enough timeline.
Lastly, there's the completely fucking dumb cunts- do not even give them a god damn fucking rock or they'll do something stupid with it.
Now, as much as some people thing owning a firearm is a right, its actually more of a responsibility than anything else. People who operate vehicles, need some kind of instruction and licence to make sure they're not too dumb to actually fuck it up more than normal. Same with firearms, you join the military and there would be some arsehole just like me that's got an eye on you to instruct, supervise and finally sign off on you being accredited to not to fuck it up- plus if you do fuck it up, we're more than capable of pulling your rights because you're not responsible.
Guns are the same- learn to use them, don't be a fuck up and actually know what you're doing.
>>51689408
>The American government could not so easily take over or enslave it's people.
> shit minimun wage
> no vacation days
> no guaranteed healthcare
> astronomically high college tuition
> gerrimongering
> corporation lobbying
> permissive food regulations
> bipartidism
> militarized police
wow, so glad you aren't slaved!
>>51689655
You don't use rifles against tanks and APCs, you use IEDs and looted National Guard weapons.
Or do you really believe the entire military and nation guard is going to blindly follow orders when artillery ravages their neighborhood, they don't get paid due to the economy crashing when a massive portion of people don't show up for work and the infrastructure collapsing?
Drones weren't able to hunt down sheepfuckers in open mountains, how will they hunt down cousinfuckers in forests?
>>51683554
>>51689680
A militia organized by the government (national guard) is not a true militia. It's like locking something you aren't supposed to access behind a door but keeping the key. The government controls the guard, through and through. The only way to prevent tyranny on the long run is to be prepared.
>>51689655
And you missed the latter part
>the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed
The well regulated militia is the justification for arms. Even if that justification is valid, the main point (people should be able to bare arms) still stands.
>>51689655
No, but looking at Vietnam, people can be pretty resourceful. Regardless a weak resistance is better than no resistance.
If the government wanted to kill everyone, they could do that. Bomb us to shit. But they don't want that; no wants that. What's the point of a government if there's no population?
Yeah they have tanks and apcs, but unless they're willing to indiscriminately kill and just bomb areas to hell, the struggle could go on for years if not decades.
>>51689781
Corporations do that, not the government.
>>51689770
Aussie please, we aren't all subhuman cunts like you, pic related.
>>51689781
>he listed those things unironically
Because the government should force businesses and individuals into treating others a certain way, right? Fucking socialists...
>>51689655
We don't have to fight armored vehicles, we cam just kill their mechanics and factor workers.
>>51689847
Uhh the point of a militia was originally to defend the country on a moments notice, not to start another revolution
That's literally the opposite of what they wanted
>>51689738
>Theirs is almost double ours. Such a rise in the murder rate is not an acceptable exchange in return for less gun control.
Yes it is. The perfect example of this is a speed limit. If you set a national speed limit of 20mph you could saves tens of thousands of lives. Why don't you guys do that? Set a national speed limit and keep thousands of people from dying?
Because there is a tradeoff to be made. There is a point where you guys as nation value prompt transportation over human lives. The same is true of guns and the right to bear arms.
>>51689655
Yeah, those Tanks and APCs did wonders against $5 IEDs in Iraq and Afghanistan
>>51689680
>The whole point is for a well regulated MILITIA, which they quickly realized was inferior to a standing army
A militia was utilized to great extent as a defensive measure since they could hold fortifications to slow the enemy's advance and allow the regulars time to mobilize for large counter-offensives.
That's why countries like Finland and Switzerland still have conscripts alongside regular forces.
>>51689680
You do know a militia is a force of civilians using their own personal weapons right.
>>51689793
>how will they hunt down cousinfuckers in forests?
Gunships with FLIR, they get rid of cunts in forests and mountains real well.
>>51689867
Half the population anywhere are at best a bit sub-normal to complete cretins.
>>51689939
Very ineffective in a country like the US, and even if it was, most people still don't understand that it's for that purpose
>>51689781
>shit minimum wage
No it's not. In my city of 320k people minimum wage is enough for a decent life. It's enough for a person to save money and eventually go to community college, learn a trade/skill, and get a better job. Required vacation days and guaranteed healthcare are infringement of personal rights. Those are things to be negotiated by individuals and their firms.
Most grocery store jobs have vacation days. There $12/hr jobs with healthcare. There is absolutely no reason for the government to make laws where none is needed.
>>51690011
How will these pilots feel about shooting their own countrymen into meaty chunks? What about insurgents within the population?
>>51689554
Except in practice it is used to block most people from getting guns.
>>51689408
The French monarchy literally got guillotined by The Jew & The Upper Class riling up The Underclass, because of piled up mismanagement.
What exactly does the arms status change? If there really is a revolution, stealing what the police and army has stockpiled is more than enough.
>>51689298
Deurbanization would be the greatest thing ever if centralization of power didn't mean that at some point EVERYTHING gets moved to the capital because its in view from the office ruling the nation.
Its disgusting.
>>51689781
What's the unemployment like in your country? Are you saying that has no link to high minimum wage, high pension, required healthcare, etc?
>>51690030
>Very ineffective in a country like the US
I would recommend you read Elements of Art and Military Science by Halleck. He was American, and while some specific things are out of date (such as building forts), the theory behind them are still very much relevant.
>>51689680
>The whole point is for a well regulated MILITIA, which they quickly realized was inferior to a standing army. It has nothing to do with what you think
>I know better than SCOTUS
The 2A offers an individual right to keep and bear arms 'for traditionally lawful purposes, such as hunting and self defense'... If you don't want that, you need to repeal 2A.
>>51689983
To be able to quickly defend the state in case of invasion
It's pretty clear what the founding fathers meant with it
>>51683554
Most European countries are densely populated and there are no wild animals. In that regard there is less need for guns since police is going to arrive pretty much anywhere in time. Also, crime rates aren't really outrageous to the point where it would be necessary.
Lastly, I'd argue that if everyone has access to guns, law enforcement is going to be a lot more twitchy. From what I've seen US cops seem a lot more nervous than European ones.
>>51690059
Mostly because the cat is out of the bag. A large part about gun ownership is that it needs to restrict ownership of firearms to work, but that also means it will alienate older firearm owners because they might not have to do whatever is needed to continue use theirs.
Then again, can't have either when the media spins issues out of control, and the asshats in office has no idea what is going on IRL.
>>51690129
Oh yeah because the SCOTUS is unbiased and not completely partisan lol
>>51690126
The US military can't project itself if it's a militia
I can just get a crossbow with no licence or anything like that desu.
I probably would but they're 100 quid or so.
>>51690096
>you will always be able to steal arms from the government
>no need to keep arms, if there's a revolution, you can just steal guns
Surely you see the problem with this assumption?
The arms status literally changes the fact that the government cannot just start knocking down doors. The amount of guns people have ranges from an old shotgun to a collection of rifles and thousands of rounds.
As soon as someone steps foot into my house I can pick up my shotgun and shoot them without any worry.
With that being said I live in a peaceful area and have never dealt with roberries.
>>51690096
>Deurbanization would be the greatest thing ever if centralization of power didn't mean that at some point EVERYTHING gets moved to the capital because its in view from the office ruling the nation.
>what is federalism
Enjoy that unitary government, my Nordic friend.
>>51689917
well yeah that's why things like child labour laws were invented
>>51690201
>Oh yeah because the SCOTUS is unbiased and not completely partisan lol
Be that as it may, they are still the supreme judiciary of the US.. So as long as they uphold the right to keep and bear arms, the right remains..
Also, how can you possibly interpret the wording of 2A to NOT mean the right to keep and bear arms?
>>51690050
As a former soldier, if it meant preserving the country from wild mad cunts in the mountains out to destabilise an otherwise peaceful society like we've got, I'd have no trouble pulling the trigger.
>>51690030
With a population of 400ish million? Its very effective. It means day 1, militia can go where they are needed. Day 0 you got invaded.
By week 3 or maybe 5, there might be conscripts trained enough to mount a counter offensive.
Its very effective. But with Soviet dead, and China not being a dick, there is no real threat of war, so people have no idea what its suppose to do.
>>51690049
> In my city
okay,is it the same everywhere else?
>infringement of personal rights
lel
>>51690119
spain is quite shitty, not a great model for anyone
there is no high minimum wage or high pension the economic problems are more related to the global crysis and our huge construction bubble
Also, the actual goverment of spain is conservative
>>51683554
Decades of propaganda that appeals to our sense of superiority over the colonials.
>You're better than those savage Americans aren't you? You don't need a baby killer like a barbarian
>>51690119
>Are you saying that has no link to high minimum wage, high pension, required healthcare, etc?
It doesn't. Norway and Germany have high minimum wages, pensions, and health care spending... But their unemployment rates are lower than yours.
>>51690201
>The US military can't project itself if it's a militia
You have completely missed the point. It's not an either/or trade-off. You can have both. A militia is for home defence, a standing army is for carrying the war onto other's territories.
For instance, Henri Jomini, the guy who served in both the Napoleonic and the Russian Armies, wrote that it should be a 1:1 ratio between standard forces and militia-type soldiers.
>>51690288
You'd support even a tyrannical government to the very end just because it's stable?
>>51690288
What if it meant bombing residential areas because of 'subversive activities' ?
>>51689983
>ban handguns
>all handguns don't magically poof out of existance, takes time to remove them
>crime gradually goes down
>school shootings non existent
graph is inaccurate, eg it claims 2003 was the most deadly year, it was actually 2002
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate_by_decade
>>51690232
Do you understand what armor is, or what actions it protects against?
Look at what you are saying:
>The arms status literally changes the fact that the government cannot just start knocking down doors.
If the Government wants to knock down your door, they will send a swat team in armor in, bulletproof to anything but large caliber hunting rifles.
Having some shitty shotgun won't change that.
Nor will the fact that you are literally stating you are living in a society where there is a real risk of armed robbers doing forced entry. Thats a horrible thing. You are also stated that the police can not help you.
You are saying your state is a disfunctional shithole.
>>51690369
>>51690380
Tyrannical- that's a hypothetical situation, not a current one.
There's only really been one time I've been given authorisation to use lethal force in-country and that was at the Olympics in 2000 when we hosted them. As for bombing entire suburbs, got to remember that 1st world, trained military are a precision instrument and not necessarily a blunt object that problem solves with ordinance. Most of the time anything like that happens they'll be dead at 3am and no one will even be the wiser for it.
>>51690340
>infringement of personal rights
Minimum wage essentially says that: I cannot work for less than x-dollars. It's a law that hurts low skilled workers. It pushes them outside of the market and benefits the workers slightly more skilled than low skilled workers.
During South Africa's apartheid era black workers for working for low wages and pushing white unions outside of the market. White unions lobbied for a minimum wage, got it passed, and fucked over the blacks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUBK9_4OQIs
There really is no reason for minimum wage. Businesses do not hold all the power. Minimum wage, required healthcare, required vacation days, etc. are all laws which harm small businesses and greatly benefit large businesses (with regards to their competition against small firms).
>>51683554
At least in Sweden the reason people are so fuckin scared of guns is an extension of 70 years of socialistic nanny state policies. A lot of the things that used to fall under personal responsibility no longer do and people expect the state to do it for them. So in a sense you could say that guns represent the antithesis of this particular system, as the system relies on people being essentially powerless. Only when presented with an alternative do we realize how shit this system of ours truly is, that having to wait 15 minutes in a phone line just get to the police is not acceptable. It's learned helplessness.
As you no doubt have realized this system is not rational and nor are most people defending it. They love to point at statistics showing more gun violence in countries that have permissive gun laws, like the USA. But remember, they are not rational and indeed what is posted 95% of the time is statistics that include suicide and cases of self-defense. In other words, the statistics that is so commonly referred to is completely worthless, it doesn't tell you anything about actual violence. But that doesn't matter, because most people won't look that carefully and it serves their narrative that guns are evil incarnated, so they'll never stop posting it.
The next mode they enter, and you'll even see a couple of ""Americans"" use this type of rhetoric, is the "you don't "need" a gun to protect yourself in a civilized society". The reasons why this is a ridiculous statement should be obvious to anyone whose given it even a modicum of though, namely: unless the police have teleportation technology there is literally no way that they'll make it to the scene in time in 90% of the cases, not only is that a self-evident statement but statistics support this as well. Secondly, which we in the Nordic countries know very well, the police don't always care.
>>51690534
>Tyrannical- that's a hypothetical situation, not a current one.
And why shouldn't the populace be prepared for it? The US government has already started swinging in that direction since 2001.
>>51690530
>If the Government wants to knock down your door, they will send a swat team in armor in, bulletproof to anything but large caliber hunting rifles.
>Having some shitty shotgun won't change that.
There are real life examples that prove you wrong. There are cases of police raiding the wrong house, a homeowner having a gun, and there being a standoff for several hours. If you want I can find you an article.
>You are saying your state is a disfunctional shithole.
Did you even read my post? "With that being said I live in a peaceful area and have never dealt with robberies."
>>51690198
That pic is of a guy making AKs out of shovels. If people want guns they will get them.
>>51690633
They're also the ones that vote in these people.
Democracy is only as effective as the voters make it, if they choose to sit on a couch jerking off instead of turning up to the polling booth for 20min out of their day, then they really deserve everything they get.
>>51683554
>Why are most of my fellow European brethren so afraid of guns, and why do they argue FOR gun control in times of increasing terrorist threats?
They aren't, it's just the media pushing their agenda.
Before the referendum in 2005, every poll said we wanted the gun ban. But in the end, 64% of the population voted against it.
Do you believe in the media and polls with 800 people or a mandatory referendum where 93 million voted?
>>51690534
Seatbelts are hypothetical protection. I say this as someone who has driven for 5 years, 50,000 miles, and has never been in an accident.
>>51690251
Federalism means everything gets moved to the substates capitals.
I.E Oslo, Trondheim, Bergen
It doesn't change the issue.
Its even more obvious when you look at county merges, and realize the county that did not get to keep their political office gets down prioritized.
It usually starts out with small things, like de prioritizing maintenance on schools or sports stadiums.
It then moves to "forgetting" you have large well working buildings in the other part of the county, but you build new shiny in the office part of the county.
The long term trends makes the officeless county a wasteland, simply because nothing gets built there. This is still true for 50/50 splits, because all the short term decisions impact the long term decisions.
>>51690735
But do you vote and maintain your democracy?
>>51690631
Usually they'll just have you file a report after the case. So evidently there has to be a way to fend off invaders before the police can get there, if they decide to show at all. The same way you need CPR and first aid kits, before the professionals arrived. Now usually it's enough the at home, yell loudly or threaten to call the cops. Generally speaking you should avoid a confrontation and try to deescalate the situation. But in those situations where that is not possible one should be allowed to stand their ground and defend their life or property with lethal force if need be.
>>51685963
go fuck yourself pinko liberal trash
>>51690657
Are you even reading what you said? You are saying there has been cases of police, not armored, that realizes they are armored, so they wait for the SWAT car.
You are also implying there exists places that robberies regularly happening, by stating your area is a exception.
>>51690705
Masses are not informed voters, this has been known since the advent of democracy. It is an issue of established politicians using other issues to distract the populace, so they'll forget about the large ones come election and get voted in again. They're obviously partly at fault though.
But that's not what the topic here even is. Gun control is.
>>51683554
>People are acquiring guns through illegal means and committing crime with them
>The solution is therefore to loosen regulations so it's easier to get them
You're one dumb nigger. The regulations should be stricter, and the populace should rise to meet them and arm themselves. I don't want street thugs in my post-industrial shithole getting easier access to guns
>>51690783
I don't understand your question. Are you asking if I vote in the elections and local ballots?
Yes. But I don't have much confidence in my singular votes or actions.
>>51690281
>child labor laws
>a good thing
Yeah, because my children shouldn't learn the value of hard work. We'll just give those jobs to Paco and Fang.
>>51690693
To some extent, yes. But the R&D time it takes to do something like the pic you take, is a large entry barrier.
Realizing you can do shit like that takes a insane amount of insight, and is non obvious.
Getting a gun over counter is far easier, if you just want to do target practice. The same for hunting.
>>51690189
>in time
average respond time is about 15min
>>51690831
So you're not really reading nor comprehending what I'm saying then are you...
>not armored
I did not say that
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/10/texas-no-knock-swat-raid
>a SWAT officer was shot during a predawn no-knock raid on another house. In that case, too, police threw a flash-bang grenade and tried to enter the residence. Henry "Hank" Magee, according to his attorney, grabbed his gun to protect himself and his pregnant girlfriend. "As soon as the door was kicked in, he shot at the people coming through the door," says his attorney, Dick DeGuerin. With his legally owned semi-automatic .308 rifle, Magee killed one of the officers.
>by stating your area is a exception.
Where did I say my area was an exception? I said my area was safe. I did not comment on my area with regards to other regions.
>You are also implying there exists places that robberies regularly happening
Those places do exist, but that's simply due to us having ghettos. My comments didn't directly imply that.
>>51690843
We live in the most densely saturated information age that has massive amounts of accessibility, people can be informed if they choose and then they can make their decisions.
If they decide 'this gov is bullshit' and isn't representing their beliefs, values and morals- they can fuck them off.
Sometimes that means they support those, that support pro-gun ownership and sometimes anti-gunners.
As much democracy seems 'flawed', communism is a complete fuck up and tyranny doesn't really work either
Americans need guns because the US is for the most part a shit hole and they risk getting shot whenever they go outside. I don't need a gun as a "safety" measure because there is quite literally a 0% chance of me getting shot, or attacked, when I'm outside.
Shouldn't these threads be at /r9k/ /pol/ or maybe even /his/. Definitely not /int/ related.
>>51690843
>Masses are not informed voters
But let me guess, that doesn't include you of course? All those 50 year olds with twice your experience of the world, politics and life know less than you. Silly boy, you are making stuff up to make your beliefs seem more concrete.
>>51690359
many many people get excluded here from the statistic and a lot still need welfare money because the job doesnt pay well enough
>>51690998
Americans don't need guns to live safely. Most of my family and their friends don't own guns and have never been in situations where they were threatened with guns.
However, Americans greatly want guns and we believe that they are an indispensable freedom.
>>51690881
>Yes. But I don't have much confidence in my singular votes or actions.
Fast moving thread...
Anyway- what I wrote here >>51690982
You do need to enforce democracy according to your personal beliefs. If you're not getting any satisfaction with the actions of those you've voted for, you do need to bring them to account, either publicly or in writing because they're not doing their job as representing your vote. Their job, is to represent you. Make sure they do it.
>>51690740
>Federalism means everything gets moved to the substates capitals
Not if those states also have a decentralized government. Compare New York to Colorado, for example.
>>51690705
>Democracy is only as effective as the voters make it
And the voters can only be effective when they are informed.
What the party says about themselves is propaganda, what they state is debates is populism. So neither of those things will inform the masses.
And the media? And what the media does is not inform the masses. Either they parrot the propaganda, just reprint the debates, or they have some shitty cause. They are not informing the voters.
So merely by existing, Democracy will be ineffective.
Disgusted yet?
>>51690981
>I said my area was safe.
You are literally stating its a exception. You are stating there is unsafe areas.
Thats literally what "my area is safe" means.
>>51691065
>t. (sub)urbanite scum
Or
>t. immigrant
>>51691031
He's completely right though. Most people know very little. People will vote on a minimum wage, economic regulations, etc. But they a majority of them do not know what a supply and demand curve is.
The best example of this is price gouging laws. During storms or hurricanes businesses are not allowed to change their prices. This not only results in, but almost creates a shortage.
>>51691122
>You are stating there is unsafe areas.
How is having contained chimp-out zones where the untermenschen destroy themselves while we watch from our gated communities a bad thing?
>>51691122
>You are literally stating its a exception. You are stating there is unsafe areas.
>Thats literally what "my area is safe" means.
No I'm not. Poor logic on your part. If someone says "my town is safe" they could live in Switzerland, Munich, or Detroit. That singular statement doesn't mean that other areas are not safe or are dangerous.
>>51691157
If we would create a society where voters would need to be proficient in said areas we would effectively be creating new kind of aristocracy. Sadly no one knows everything, someone proficient at economics might have no idea on ecology or geography. It's the price of democracy.
>>51689554
Owning a gun is a right, driving a car on PUBLIC roads is a privilege. And you don't need a license to own a car anyway.
Your argument isn't actually an argument.
>>51691150
How about both?
t. North Carolina
>>51691122
>Disgusted yet?
Choice to be ignorant is a luxury in the information age, actually being intelligent enough to sift through the bullshit to find what's actually relevant is a skill. So maybe you (and a lot of others) need to do a bit of work.
As for disgusted, I've seen Sharia Law in force with 30 men and boys in an irrigation ditch machine gunned to death for their beliefs.
Most of us in the 1st world tend to wear our beliefs rather lightly don't you think.
>>51691051
The US' includes part-time workers who may need food-stamps, no?
>>51683554
in europe its not a pro-gun/anti-gun thing, any given individual in most any european country can posses a firearm or more, both legaly and illegaly, tons of people have them and in fact theres a lot of weapons per capita, even if, obviously, not on americunt scale
its that the system functions diferently
in america people live under a constant level of violence, as hyped up as it might be in the media
in europe armed violence is a excess, something seriously dangerous and problematic, it rarely goes a long way before its stopped, and in the cases where it continues and escalates, you dont have to worry about 'owning guns' once the shit starts, guns, machineguns, granades and rpgs will be shoved into your hands weather you want that or not, and the only alternative is to run away
what im saying is that american logic is - guns are for self defence
european logic is - guns are for war, terror and mass organized murder
thats why americunts love their guns so much while eurofags subcionsciously dread the day they will have to go in the fray again, just as did their forebarers, because we know its inevitable, because weve been around for long enough to know
>>51691081
Look at it this way: Image if Washington was built in a place that was actually a good location.
It would be a lot larger.
You dodged a bullet there.
You also had the advantage of building a country over the industrial revolutions age, allowing the new rich to decide where to build things, and the towns did follow that.
Its a massive advantage to decentralize a country like that.
>>51689680
>>51689680
Because you know the law better than the Supreme Court, right?
The right to bear arms belongs to the people. This right is granted to allow the formation of militias, but the right does not belong to the militias.
This right was further expounded upon by SCOTUS to allow self defense, hunting, and other firearm related things.
>>51683554
>Why are most of my fellow European brethren so afraid of guns, and why do they argue FOR gun control in times of increasing terrorist threats?
Because they are sissified "liberal" progressive faggots who live in a delusional fantasy that the world is almost perfect.
>>51691440
That's kind of true. But you also have to factor in the founding of America. This was a rebellion. Imagine the students in a school ambushing the teachers, kicking them out and starting their own school.
This idea then comes to mind; Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who will watch the guards? There is the idea that one day, the students could be abused again and there may be a need for another revolution.
Guns are mixture of self defense, national pride, liberty, and sport.
>>51691584
>who live in a delusional fantasy that the world is almost perfect.
Once we remove white privilege it will be ;)
>>51691424
i dont know but one can assume there are diffrent standarts for establishing those numbers
Less than 14h a week, longtime unemployed, redirected to privait job centers,1€ workers, over 58 years old and in some kind of class from the job center these are not counted in germany.
An estimat says one has to add anouther milion to get the real number
>>51690348
The same shit here. The citizen movement is rizing it's head in a coalition with gun-makers and some political parties, but Putin is against it, so we will not aquire proper human rights in next 10 years at least.
>>51691584
except 80% of the european population, except maybe in places like germany and sweden, are the exact opposite of ''"liberal" progressive''
in fact there is a constant struggle by the ones in power to modulate the mentality of the actual population into something seemingly PC
>>51691363
Look, if I want to change my country, I would need to:
1. Become enlightened
2. Acquire the skills to take over a position that indirectly controls part of public information
3. Acquire that job
4. Still risking getting drowned out, since its only a part of what informs the public
Thats depressing. And risky. And thats just to get what I want. And it still applies if i skip step 1, and have a horrible opinion.
>>51690998
>the Dutch actually believe that the entire US is the wild west or Compton
Get your wooden clogs on, and go pick some tulips for me.
>>51691309
My stomach actually rolled when I read this.
Disgusting.
>>51691518
You're really not taking into account how different federal and unitary systems are. We're actually supposed to (muh constitooshun) be less centralized, but based Lincoln and FDR didn't give many fucks about all that. Merica one, Merica stronk.
