Catalonia will not win they will lose badly. the Spanish will
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>memelonia
of course. people shouldn't be able to just up and leave. there are things more important than their silly region. Spain as a whole is more important
I hope not, it'd make for a shitty country
>>51659600
agreed, that's why we had a civil war
>>51659647
dunno, its economically viable
if a region is by itself economically viable there's not a lot of issues with it becoming a separate nation
>>51659949
Isn't there usually war and genocide when countries split apart?
>>51660016
well had Scotland voted yes you'd have had a peaceful separation
If Portugal is a country, they can be one as well, and then Euskadi and Galicia
>>51659464
>>51659554
>>51659600
As we say in Catalan "som i serem"
Creating threads like these usually triggers a wave of shitposting under this flag.
>>51660216
>and we will be
what
>>51660272
hey maybe in a decade it'll create a wave of shitposting under 2 flags?
>>51660064
They voted like a month ago and there was actually a majority of non independent catalans. Now their goverment have discussing how is gonna be the leader and its team, without making any decision. The politicians who are for independence are just trying to keep power and leaving catalonia paralised. Fuck them
>>51660306
let's hope so
>>51660064
I dunno, it didn't work for Bosnia. I'm glad we voted No. I'll do it again whenever I have to. Probably after the next government, based CamCam won't have it.
>>51660216
We also say "la pela es la pela" and we are we have run out of it
>>51660355
Sounds familiar mate :'(
>>51660379
C'mon lets be fair here, you fellers are at least civilized, can't say the same for balkan countries
>>51660379
You mean the person who let the first one happen?
![n_f_c_barcelona_camp_nou-6111314[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uixL59O.jpg "n_f_c_barcelona_camp_nou-6111314[1].jpg")
>>51660302
It means "we are and we will be".
It's from a traditional song which says "We are and will be Catalans wether they want it or not".
It is commonly used ny nationalists, like in this pic in Camp Nou
The problem with parties that want independence is that they want to act now and think about the consequences later. When I studied the prospect of Catalonian independence I was left with a lot of unanswered questions. Like will the economy be better or worse? What kind of currency will they use? Who will lead them? What about military assets? Will they have to be built up from scratch? Will the EU accept them?
>>51660498
But bro, you're destroying your own culture with all the liberalism and progressiveness
>>51660355
>like a month ago
I see you are well informed, lad. It was actually in September. Only ~35% voted against independence, as CSQEP and Unió are neither for or against. Independentists were 48% and have majority in the parliament. Aparently the commies of CUP are finally going to let Mas be president and we will start the path to independence.
>>51660700
Spain won't let you, EU won't let you, no major country in europe supports you
how exactly are you going to pull it off? Honestly curious because that's gotta be a mighty trick.
>>51660355
>They voted like a month ago and there was actually a majority of non independent catalans.
KEK
Catalonia is actually the memiest region in Europe.
>>51660580
Even them don't know some of the answers for that questions.
>>51660580
>Like will the economy be better or worse?
You already know that it would be worse at first, in all the scenarios. Plus you have to think that Spanish inner market is divided mostly between between Catalonia and Madrid. It would be a catastrophe but who cares, soms y serem.
>What kind of currency will they use?
They would still be using the euro, I mean there are countries using american dollar right now.
>Who will lead them?
Their Messiah Artur Mas
>What about military assets?
Army? C'mon it's 2015!
>Will they have to be built up from scratch?
They have the biggest tourism sector in the whole Europe, they could survive pretending to be Spain for a while.
>Will the EU accept them?
Lol no
>>51660580
Independentists believe the economy will be better, that's one of the main points of the movement. (There are economists in both sides) We could still use the Euro, you don't need to be a member of the EU to use it. Artur Mas is about to be chosen to lead the way to independence. It is planned to depend on the military of Spain (if it's a peaceful proces) or France, just as Andorra does. Creating a Catalan Armed Force is not out of the question. The independentist politicians plan to keep infrastructure built by the Spanish government in exchange of accepting part of the Spanish debt.
Time will past and we will see what happens. I reckon you already fucked up Mas
>>51660596
I think most people who voted Ada Colau realised it was a mistake, hopefully she will never be mayor again.
>>51660754
We are going to declare independence and see what happens. In theory the Spanish government should try to arrest the members of the Catalan government and that should hopefully spark some kind of unrest. People will take the streets if they try to put the Catalan president in jail.
>>51661079
>>51661336
Yeah, yeah, all the memes you want Álvaro
It's actually impressive one of you actually had the ability to edit that shit, not that it's well madde, but still
>>51660856
>Army? C'mon it's 2015!
And that's why Europe is going to be muslim in the future.
Civil War when?
>>51659949
>economically viable
>>51663822
It's unbelievably stupid to assume they would pay back even half that debt.
>>51659464
Also, I generally support national cohesion, and was against Catalonian independence, until I learned the average thinking of the non-Catalonian goes around these lines:
>Fucking Catalonians don't even speak Spanish
>I really hate those fuckers for not being like the rest of us
>I still don't want them to go
Seriously, that's disgusting
>splitting the peninsula even further
>not allying with Portugal
This is why the french and British got ahead of you
if catalonia is held accountable for its part in Spanish debt then i would wholeheartedly support their independence.
>>51664311
>Spain allying with Portugal
>>51664243
But that's not true, Spain is not an homogeneous country. They believe they are the most special snowflake in a pile of snow
>>51664243
It's unbelievably stupid to think they are "economically viable" when the central Goverment is literally paying for Catalonia's expenses like a father pays the PSN sub for his NEET son.
Read something Barbosa.
>>51664692
I bet they didn't think that (in the same degree) when your economy was doing fine.
People just lose their shit in times of hardship. If tomorrow the Belgian economy goes to shit, you can bet they'd split up the country with everyone blaming the other party for the fuck up.
Did you call me?
>>51664851
uhh, no
please leave Mr. Putin
>Fun Fact
Andorra is the only country that has catalan as their offical language
>>51664760
They are, very definitely, economically viable. They would take a huge initial hit on their living standards, from which they might or might not recover rapidly, but they are definitely economically viable as a country.
>>51664692
This is a sound reasoning which is unfortunately not the one I've heard from most Spaniards that I talked to.
>>51664851
Wrong saviour
is Alicante in Catalonia?
i'm moving there next year
>>51664987
>They would take a huge initial hit on their living standards, from which they might or might not recover rapidly, but they are definitely economically viable as a country.
Ok, then my 30k people town is also viable.
>>51660216
does to this translate as somos y seremos
>>51664987
You know that there are regions that hate each other like you hate Spain (or Castille or whatever) obviously a Madrilean will talk shit about Barcelona and otherwise. Also the regions surrounding Catalonia hate them with passion (Aragon and Valencia) Why don't you ask a Galician or Basque what they think about Catalonia?
>>51664933
Pleeeez
I promise to leave as soon as you'll become independent.
Is there a possibility for this to escalate into a violent confrontation?
>>51660700
>as CSQEP and Unió are neither for or against
>CSQEP voted 'no' to the separatist meme-declaration
>Unió literally seceded from CiU to not to be involved in this mess
Can a region be more JUST bros?
>>51665225
I completely doubt it, they'd be crushed in an instant
>>51665225
Hahahhahahah. No. They have no balls to do anything else than complaining about muh oppression.
>>51665225
Sure. And exactly an escalation will help. They'll need a couple of sacred corpses to carry through the street of Barcelona.
There are enough crazy Spanish colonnels who said they would shoot.
>>51665225
Yeah they will attack us with pantumaka and espetecs
>>51665061
False analogy. There is no point in debating this. The Catalonia of today is not a viable country, but one that has adjusted to the lower living standards that independence would initially bring, is.
>>51665094
Yeah, I know, although you know nothing about us in general we actually know quite a few things about you.
But I know how to distinguish this feuds from the underlying feeling that, in the end of the day, most Spaniards feel that a true Catalonian identity has no place within Spain. Ffs the only place in the world where an Asturian-Leonese language has official status is Portugal.
>>51665225
Kekalonia hasn't been involved in a war since the middle ages. In the Civil War they """"""fought"""""""""" in Aragon (the only useful fighters were the Brigadas Internacionales and the aragonese fighting for their land) and then they literally threw flowers to Franco's feet when he came to Barcelona.
They lose the plebiscit so now they'll do a little dance, pretend to achieve something with the new government while not doing so and then they will wait for the independence fad to fade away, as they always do
>>51665634
Asturian is a recognized language. You need to inform more yourself before talking Portuga
>>51665634
>the only place in the world where an Asturian-Leonese language has official status is Portugal
Ok, now I know you are retarded. Like I said, read something.
Good night.
>>51665802
You seem to think I am just randomly blurting out my opinion of a subject I know nothing about.
"Thus, Asturian has an anomalous situation from the legal point of view. The Spanish Constitution, as far as the official recognition of languages in the autonomous communities is concerned, has not been fully applied. The ambiguity of the Statute of Autonomy, which recognises the existence of Asturian, but does not put it on the same level as Spanish, leaves the door open to the de facto lack of protection of Asturian."
Again, Portugal is the only place where an Asturian-Leonese language enjoys official status.
The thing is, after talking to many Spaniards irl, I know we all joke about feuds with regions we love to jokingly hate.
But the thing is, that I can't shake the eerie feeling that just like when a Lisboner says that "Portugal is Lisbon", a commonly uttered sentence there, he actually means it, so does the average Spaniard when he says that Catalonians shouldn't have their identity, that it has no place in Spaain and Spain would be better off if they didn't have it.
>>51665897
>I can end discussions as I please because the topic is bothering me
Tbh, the situation with Spain has a paralel here, everyone thinks his terra is the best and that others suck, but in the end of the day, no one believes it, apart from Lisboners.
I verify the same situation with Catalonia and Spain (especially, say, Madrid) that I see here with any terra that isn't Lisbon, and Lisbon.
>>51666022
Unlike Portugal Spain is not a centralitarian state, you can't compare both countries
>>51666220
>Unlike Portugal Spain is not a centralitarian state
Absolutely laughable m8, the fact that Catalonians and Basques managed to pressure the central government into devolution of some powers doesn't change the fact that if it could, Madrid would undo it all tonight.
Also the fact that I know our gdp per capita is 22000 means your map is wrong and you are resorting to shitposting and trying to bait me.
Low tactics that someone winning an argument wouldn't need and further proving my point.
>>51666490
>winning an argument
>on the internet
It's not like anybody is going to give you a trophy or something, you should just make your point and leave
>>51666705
No thank you.
>>51660016
Only in uncivilised shitholes
>>51661270
good idea. worked for ireland
but remember GUERRILLA TACTICS. NO LARGE SCALE ENGAGEMENTS. OTHERWISE YOU WILL LOSE
>>51660216
That literally means "I am and I shit" in Slovak
>>51666490
Map is in € you dingus
>>51667013
Plus it was probably made when euro was worth something
>>51665094
>obviously a Madrilean will talk shit about Barcelona and otherwise
That's not true. I'm from Madrid and I don't dislike Barcelona, I'm pretty indifferent for better or worse.
>>51661270
you can bet Spain will go into full fascist/reconquista mode on you. It will be medieval
>>51667013
And our GDP per capita being within a thousand euros of 22 thousand euros makes it impossible.
>>51667147
The thing is, that what the czech guy said here is true >>51666939
>>51667170
Yeah and spanish one is 33k. It was made with the nominal GDP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norte_Region,_Portugal
>>51660216
Definitivno sereš, seljačino.
Catalonia has about the same economical strength as Portugal
One of the main reasoning for independence is that the taxes they pay to Spain is far more than what is spent in the region by the federal gov
Economically there's no question it will be fine
>>51667447
>Catalonia would magically maintain all the spanish inner market and infrastructure, Shintaro Kagawa says
ITT: seperatists actually believing they can gain from independence.
Enjoy your freedom and muh heritage. It won't pay your bills or put food on the table but at least you can be bros with Kosovo.
>>51667315
>Yeah and spanish one is 33k
Good for you, stop deflecting
>Still those niggers have it so low
Algarve masterrace aside, I've still made my point. You've resorted to ridiculous implications that Spain's central government somehow fully supports your peripheral regions have devolution, while this is not true, and having failed at making me believing that, you're now resorting to posting maps of my country that I and most people here will invariably love as it is, as if it would somehow change what I already know, which is that in the end of the day, most non-Catalonian Spaniards will honestly believe Catalonian identity has no place in Spain, and that your central government hasn't somehow historically tried to fuck with them at every possible opportunity.
The thing is that that very mentality I see reflected in my own country, I know what it actually is.
>>51667617
No one is pretending initial living conditions won't take a hit, but without self-determination you have nothing.
>>51667555
>Catalonia would magically maintain all the spanish inner
Shit they are losing it right now
>>51667447
>is that the taxes they pay to Spain is far more than what is spent in the region by the federal gov
Nope John.
>>51665039
Why's he wearing our flag?