What would European countries be like if EU had not come into existence?
Would your country today be better, or worse, European anon?
Worse
The EU is the only thing that keeps this country from going full bananas. Our politicians if left to run the country without our overlords would destroy this country for sure.
I honestly think a European union was inevitable because of USA and the Soviet Union. For it to not exist would mean that either the Russians didnt expand their territory or the US would keep being isolated from global affairs.
>>51612543
is this the general opinion in portugal?
>>51612587
There are people who think like this, people that belong to one of the big parties, and people that vote for commies that want to kill all "fascists" and create Cuba2.0
>>51612543
But the many industries were killed by the EU. And in the process of destroying your economy they also convinced you it'd be a good idea to bring about a unsusteinable - even to your past standards - welfare state.
I do think the EU is a good thing but all things considered it has fucked up many countries.
>>51612450
Poland would be better off, we had 7% GDP growth a year before joining, now it's only 3%.
Worse, everything here is financed with EU money. EU laws are often more logical, unfortunately many times we kind of disregard them, even though we are technically bound by them.
>>51612761
>people that vote for commies
>create Cuba2.0
Oh god those people exist in portugal
Are you even fucking Brazilian.
>>51612575
I would have loved if the US went straight back to strict isolationism after World War II.
>>51612450
>ridiculous directives
>immigrants
>money drain
>gun bans
I can't think of a single good thing the EU has done.
finland would be much better. but it's too late to leave now. this new soviet union should've been dissolved a decade ago
>>51612932
we are leeching of the EU it's better now
The Benelux would probably be one country by now. We were uniting until the EU came into play.
We would be poor as fuck, personally I would prefer it
>>51613142
Create vastly superior trade functions between European countries and improve relations (until recent dividing events).
>>51612450
What's a country?
>>51613385
It would have been acceptable if it had stayed a trade union only.
>>51613393
ur moms ass is a country
It would be nice to have actual sovereignty.
>>51613417
This rly.
>>51613428
She looks like Maggie, so yeah
>>51613417
aboslutely this
>>51613417
You can't really have a coherent trade union without a political union...
>>51613941
Before the EU we had just that.
>>51613142
It gave us money and a low unemployment rate.
>>51613417
Or if Schengen was vastly reduced. If it was Britain, Iberia, Germany, France and The Nordics it would have been fine.
>>51613941
>>51614143
Same with the scandies, my french friend.
>>51614272
Who are you to talk sheepshagger?
We'd be pulling carts on gravel roads.
>>51614324
Remember, we're always stronger together, even if it aint perfect.
>>51614334
>t. Piotr in London
much better
>>51614465
Britain isnt part of shengen anyway, do your homework kid.
>>51614541
It's synonymous with free movement everywhere else in the EU, you're really just being pedantic. If Free Movement and The EU itself was confined to the most economically prosperous states, we wouldn't have seen the Greek crisis or the resentment against Eastern Euro immigrants within the EU.
>>51614657
Ok. What greek financial crisis has to do with free movement of people? And dont forget theres about 3 million brits in Spain , so yeah it kinda works both ways if you think about. Youve got preffered countries where people work, and youve got others where they retire. But of course you wouldnt know that, would you//busy sheepshagging//
>>51612450
I'm for an european military alliance. Clearly not a political or economical one. Too much culture differences and old grudges... If your country isn't succesful that's your problem. Europe has created nothing but trouble for french people and it's slowly killing us like cancer.
I blame the krauts, they tried to conquer europe militarly twice so now they try politically.
They even want an european army aka french and brits doing 99% of the job since other countries got a shit army.
We will never send our boys to die for krauts interests. Fuck you and fuck that idiocracy that is europe.
>>51614975
Brits in general are wealthier than Spaniards. There wouldn't be an issue retiring in Spain outside of the EU if they could afford their retirement properties, not that there aren't plenty of people leeching off the Spanish health system as well.
Free movement is overwhelmingly higher amongst Poles, Romanians and other Eastern Europeans for obvious reasons. The EU let in countries far below western Europe in terms of economic parity and they migrated to take the better jobs.
It's fairly obvious you're not British by the way you phrase your sentences, and the fact you resort to a sheepshagger insult.Clearly you've benefitted from The UK and are reluctant to give up your residence. The fact that you, with no cultural ties to Britain are able to get visa free travel, when I with British relatives and all my ancestors coming from Britain in the 20th century are treated far worse by immigration shows how poor The EU has been for Britain. Instead of receiving those who would assimilate the best, they're forced to take immigrants they never wanted.
The Greek Crisis is another symptom of the overall dysfunction of the EU, which is why both free movement and the crisis are related. The Greeks cooked their books to get into the EU, spent the credit that was given like there was no tomorrow and now cannot pay back what they took.
I'll be happy when Britain is out and can pursue its own interests rather than that of the interests of the architects of the European Project, like every other wealthy Western European nation should have.
>>51612890
>the many industries
There was never such a thing.
Industry, except for specialized goods, is not what Portugal needs to develop.
The welfare state thing was a decision of our leaders. They didn't want to wait until wealth was created before redistributing it.
>>51615507
>all my ancestors coming from Britain in the 20th century
you're not european, he is, deal with it
Much better senpai
>>51615507
>It's fairly obvious you're not British by the way you phrase your sentences
Can you expand on this? I'm genuinely curious.
>>51619265
I mean he's certainly not a native English speaker. The way he phrases his sentences; switching between subjects, and the misspelling of
"What greek financial crisis has to do with free movement of people?"
>>51618958
Nobody cares about being "European" if the label applies to economic backwaters like Poland and your own country. When people talk with pride of being "European" they only mean Western Europe.
The fact remains that the average Australian or New Zealander would assimilate far better in Britain than Eastern Europeans due to the cultural, linguistic, ethnic and historical ties.
There are no downsides to EU.
>>51620058
There will be once Turkey joins.
>>51612450
Europe would be even more poor and third world than some parts of it are now.
But with less muslims, so worth it.
>>51620058
It's pretty shitty desu
t. Pole
>>51619787
You lashed out at the diaspora guy because you're not privileged enough to move to Britain, and your inclination to do so tells me you couldn't make it in your new world shithole.
European is about staying here no matter what, your ancestors ran off, now they don't want you. Your ability to assimilate is irrelevant.
We'd probably still use rape as a primitive form of currency.
>>51620273
It's not because I'm not privileged enough. I'm an IT graduate who is entitled to a years visa, and could probably quite easily get a job in London. What I object to is that people in the EU who care little about Britain and have zero connection to it or any university education or qualifications are more entitled to move there than myself. It's unfair on The British public more than it is unfair on myself.
Your ancestors could have ran off to here or other well off New World countries if they had the opportunity as well. And really blaming modern people because of the fault of their ancestors is an incredibly stupid line of thinking, and quite frankly is more fitting to the third world than yourself.
> Now they don't want you
I'm fairly sure British employers and The British Public would prefer University educated people of British ancestry than illiterate gypsies, but they don't get to choose with the EU.
>>51620273
And your ability to assimilate is not irrelevant. If it was, nobody would object to Eastern European immigration to the UK or any immigration full stop.
We would have a weak and divided Europe unable to respond to the challenged of increased globalisation
>>51615507
Britain is not part of schengen
>>51619265
>What greek financial crisis has to do with free movement of people?
>it kinda works both ways if you think about.
Horrible spelling is something natives can do, too. But fucking up the grammar that badly means that it's not his native language.
>>51612450
No EU would mean less trade and possibly more wars.
EU is good thing.
>>51620901
Schengen just means they check your passport when you go into the country. They are still part of the single market, and anyone from any member state can move and work there freely.
>>51620928
If you are blaming the Greek crisis on anything EU related then you really are clueless about European affairs.
>>51621007
Schengen means that you can stay visa free for 3 months, it's kind of a big deal. The only countries that are part of the single market are those of the Eurozone.
>>51621042
If they never joined the EU they never would have had access to the credit they blew through, nor would they have joined the Eurozone and put the single market at risk.
It's primarily the fault of The Greeks, I never disputed that. However a Greek economic collapse wouldn't have had as adverse an impact on the Eurozone if they were not part of it to begin with
>>51612587
without the EU we would be the European Venezuela
something that the left is trying hard to accomplish, they don't even hide that fact.
>>51612450
The EU, even though it was in the beginnings forced on germany to stop us from sperging out, is a good thing.
We would be even more playballs for the US and other big powers as individual states.
Sadly, without more federalisation and common laws similar to how the USA governs their states, we won't have a balance going on.
We need a framework or it will fail.
>>51621198
In a large collection of states that have the power to veto it takes a crises to create consensus. Its not ideal but neither would it be acceptable to anyone concede sovereignty like US states did to their federal government.
I hope the EU remains as it is. Its ideal though not efficient.
>>51621198
Social spending spiralling out of control and Greece constantly borrow more money until bankruptcy is likely what would have happened without the EU. It's true that they couldn't have borrowed at such good conditions if not the EU had helped, but it becomes more a question of time until bankruptcy. Some argue that without the EU, Greece would go bankrupt and be forced to reform their economy, I personally doubt that anything would change for the better without political pressure from the EU considering Greece has a rather long history with bankruptcy.
>>51621585
Most Greek debt came from within the Eurozone and from the ECB. They would have owed more money to the IMF and the other creditors. Joining the Eurozone helped to boost their credit rating. Without it, they would not have been able to borrow the same amount.
The point is, it wouldn't have been a great European crisis had they never joined the Eurozone, because it wouldn't have put a currency in jeopardy the way it did.
Greek Bankruptcy would be awful but it's what should have happened, and with the Drachma they would have been able to control their own economy, for better or for worse. Regardless, it would have been a Greek crisis, not a European one.
>>51612450
All of the good countries (France, UK, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium) would be better off out of it. All of the shit tier ones (literally all the others) are better off in it, reaping the benefits of stronger economies. Leeches desu
>>51613088
Heh, no monies in that though is there
>>51613142
Hey finland what is your major export again?
>>51623920
Memes
>>51618793
>There was never such a thing.
We have entire shows on TV dedicated to showing off abandoned factories and warehouses you dumb nigger
>>51624197
Factories that would never be able to compete with the rest of the world. Welcome to globalization and cheap labour in random asian countries.
