Americans will defend this.
it was necessary to end that horrible war
it wasn't necessary to end the last good war
if we hadn't, Russia would probably have invaded Japan in the north.
it may or may not have been necessary to end World War II
>>51580070
it made anime
>>51580356
Anime is older than the war, though.
If we'd invaded the Japanese home islands, it was reckoned that over a million deaths would happen and the war might last into 1950.
>>51580356
Amerifat education
>>51580387
>>51580606
>not getting the joke
>>51580606
Lol
>>51580333
Wasnt necessary AT ALL, but it was to make a point to the USSR that the US is not to be fucked with, cause nukes
>>51580606
At least our country wasn't running under such ridiculous propaganda half the populace would've just committed suicide if troops hit shore.
>>51580070
War is war. Don't go starting fights. First thing you learn in kindergarten that world leaders haven't yet figured out.
No I won't
>>51580356
>>51580606
you guys made my day.
the US was enslaving blacks only a while ago, but they ended up paying for the sin. probably their so called SJW/political correctness will kill the wrong idea in the near future. but still, at the same time, I want the US to be staying a strong world police for defending Japan. so I don't give a fuck about American education.
>>51580070
Kept my granddad from taking the 1945 East Asia Backpacking Tour right after he had recovered from the '44 Western Europe Tour, so i've got no problem with it.
>>51580102
>>51580322
>>51580412
except that several high US gov officials themselves and the Strategic Bombing Survey of Japan by the US gov itself said that wasn't true
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Strategic_Bombing_Survey#Atomic_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_over_the_atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Militarily_unnecessary
http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/2010/atomicdec.htm
the point was to show the power of American imperialism and to cause the destruction necessary for enough of a recovery of the rate of profit for international capitalism to continue.
the point really was destruction.
>>51581507
even the english teachers don't know english in japan
also people are starting to see how shit SJWs are
won't last much longer
>>51585079
yeah it just accidentally ended the war totally unintended concequence we just wanted to show off our big penis uh huh
>Nips will defend this.
>>51585079
Crock of shit made up by two douchebag academics. There's nothing to support the assumption other than your usual Communist circlejerking.
>>51588968
but it didn't end the war, it was totally unnecessary to end the war when it comes to military strategy. It was necessary in terms of capitalism need for destruction in order to restore the rate of profit.
>>51589301
>the United States Strategic Bombing Survey is a crock of shit made up by two academics
W E W
E E
W E W
>muh "in the end we saved lifes ending the war"
Just admit your country is terrible like any other empire and move on.
"MacArthur struck a deal with Japanese informants[47]—he secretly granted immunity to the physicians of Unit 731, including their leader, in exchange for providing America, but not the other wartime allies, with their research on biological warfare and data from human experimentation."
Americans will defend this.
>>51589518
all capitalists implicitly do
>>51589471
>american empire meme
Its a hegemon lad.
Americans will defend this
>>51589518
who cares haha
it set the precedent and brought the world into the new age of nuclear warfare
many more people would have died if those bombs hadn't been dropped
we've done everything we can to apologize for it
be real here
>>51589712
>many more people would have died if those bombs hadn't been dropped
read the thread plox >>51585079
or do you just have shit reading comprehension
can Japanese have a nuclear weapon?
Oops, We're not enough in nuclear fuel.............
>>51589755
i could give you a real response but i can tell you're just here to argue so fuck it
>>51580070
You got it backwards.
That was the defense.
>>51585079
Did America NEED to use Atomic Weapons to defeat Japan? No, they didn't.
Instead, they could have opted for a land invasion that would have resulted in millions of casualties on both sides, continued with traditional firebombings that would have burned nearly every city in Japan to the ground, and allowed the Soviets to launch their own invasion and take their own slice of Japan.
America didn't NEED to use the Atomic bomb, but it was deemed by those in command as the quicker and overall less costly option.
>>51580070
Hey faglord, did the Japanese need to bomb Pearl Harbor? They could have simply pulled out of southeast Asia like we asked them to. The atom bombings were entirely justified by the atrocities that the Japanese committed. If they were not going to hold themselves to a certain standard, then we didn't need to either. It doesn't fucking matter whether or not it was "sensible" from a military perspective.
>>51589928
>Instead, they could have opted for a land invasion that would have resulted in millions of casualties on both sides, continued with traditional firebombings that would have burned nearly every city in Japan to the ground, and allowed the Soviets to launch their own invasion and take their own slice of Japan.
>i have literally zero reading comprehension
>>51585079
>Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated
>The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan. —Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet
>The use of [the atomic bombs] at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons... The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.
—Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to President Truman, 1950
>The atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.—Major General Curtis LeMay, XXI Bomber Command, September 1945
>The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment…—Fleet Admiral William Halsey, Jr., 1964
>>51590060
the thread was about the atomic bombs.
I am an internationalist, not an anti-american.
I think the attack on Pearl Harbor was horrible also.
I do not blame the Americans or the Japanese, or the Germans, or the Russians, I blame capitalism.
>mfw retards didn't know the army brass are willing to kidnap the emperor and stole his seal to continue warring
>this is post atomic bomb, couple day before the Emperor plan to make his radio address
>mfw retards naively think the Army would be willing to surrender.
topkuk
White guilt are funny as fuck.
>>51590128
Well, I agree. The bombings were horrible and unnecessary, but that doesn't mean they were not justified.
>>51590093
>This conclusion assumed conventional fire bombing would have continued, with ever-increasing numbers of B-29s, and a greater level of destruction to Japan's cities and population.
>and a greater level of destruction to Japan's cities and population
Good job leaving out the most important line.
>>51590157
They actually tried to do that anyway.
It didn't work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_incident
>>51590185
the
>and a greater level of destruction to Japan's cities and population
is in comparison to previous firebombing raids, not to the atomic bombs
learn 2 read
either way, the whole war was unnecessary, because capitalism is unnecessary and capitalism caused the war.
>>51590234
Okay, well, I think that is retarded and disagree. If you honestly think that capitalism caused WW2 then you may be drinking too deeply of the kool aid.
>>51590234
oh ho ho ho
ooh boy
>>51590271
I'm drinking the kool aid?
By doing materialist analysis, instead of reciting Idealist liberal platitudes, I'm drinking kool aid?
fuckin kek
>>51589671
China will defend this
I always thought the main controversy surrounding the nukes was the one dropped on nagasaki
>>51589671
Americans are such keks. "Yea we will defend it but only to a certain degree". Why aren't people up in arms about not being able to own nuclear and chemical weapons?
>>51588999
I don't kinda realize if he knows or doesn't know the pic is one of the famous false photos.
>>51590441
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre
>chinkychooks will defend this
Slant-eyed fuck.
>>51590346
Right, WW2 wasn't caused by unfair treaties placed on Germany following the end of WW1, nor was it caused by "racial supremacy" and the rise of militant nationalism in both Germany and Japan. It wasn't caused by expansionist ideology that plagued both the USSR and the Axis. It wasn't caused by a massive civil war between communist rebels and Chang Kai-Shek's Nationalists weakening China and opening it to foreign aggression. It wasn't caused by the beginning of the collapse of the British Empire following the horrors of WW1. It wasn't due to the American's unwillingness to get involved in European affairs.
It was because Capitalism is Evil.
Right.
>>51590234
>either way, the whole war was unnecessary, because capitalism is unnecessary and capitalism caused the war.
>>51590441
>>51580102
the war was almost over
>>51590517
Any right has limits. For instance, I am not allowed to yell "FIRE, EVERYONE GET THE FUCK OUT!" in a crowded theater. It would pose an inherent danger to the right of life that Americans hold dear. Similarly, I am not allowed to buy a B-61 on Craigslist because I don't need a fucking nuclear bomb to defend myself from tyranny, and because it is nonsensical to say that private ownership of nuclear weapons is in keeping with the preservation of the right to life that law abiding citizens enjoy.
>>51590539
Our ancestors made the right choice, Chinese must be exterminate for Asia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78Gp4R_u30Q
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_28_Incident
>>51590669
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCPkkGArVy4
>China
>People so scared of government they refuse to even speak of what happened on July 4th
Why don't we just bomb the entire country to oblivion?
>>51590234
Kek.
>>51590666
>I don't need atomic weapons to defend myself
>but dropping it on Japan was justified
Hahahahahahahahaha. Hypocritical American waste.
>>51590805
How is that in any way hypocritical? That would imply that my statements somehow contradict one another. I don't need a nuke to keep myself safe from the government. The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were justified as retaliation to the crimes committed by the Japanese against our people. These statements have nothing to do with one another other than the mention of atomic bombs.
>>51590669
Why didn't we listen to MacArthur and continue on to China with our new (forced) friends?
>>51590923
>he doesn't even see it thanks to a life of brainwashing
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
>>51590805
Additionally, even though you didn't use the word hypocritical correctly, what you attempted was an appeal to hypocrisy. Read up on it here: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque
>>51590666
>Similarly, I am not allowed to buy a B-61 on Craigslist because I don't need a fucking nuclear bomb to defend myself from tyranny
>I don't need a nuke to keep myself safe from the government.
Oh but you do. You really, really do. The state and capitalism are the natural enemies of mankind, and we should be able to fight those things by any means necessary.
>>51590974
If you are going to make the claim that those two statements are contradictory, then I would at least like you to tell me were the contradiction lies.
>>51590548
>what is a superstructure?
read a book nigger
>unfair treaties placed on Germany following the end of WW1
Treaty of Versailles was bad (not as bad as Brest-Litovsk mind you), and an effect of WW1, which was caused by capitalist crisis
>"racial supremacy" and the rise of militant nationalism in both Germany and Japan.
ideological reactions to capitalist crisis
> It wasn't caused by expansionist ideology that plagued both the USSR and the Axis
read "imperialism", yes, a well-documented effect of capitalism in this epoch.
> It wasn't caused by a massive civil war between communist rebels and Chang Kai-Shek's Nationalists weakening China and opening it to foreign aggression
not communist, but yes.
>It wasn't caused by the beginning of the collapse of the British Empire following the horrors of WW1
see above
>It wasn't due to the American's unwillingness to get involved in European affairs.
Even at the expense of millions of lives because capitalism couldn't maintain such a high surplus population, correct.
>It was because Capitalism is Evil.
I see no contradiction. And it isn't because it is "evil", it is because capitalist social relations and the value-form can no longer keep up with capitalism's development of the productive forces. So capitalism must purge itself in a sense to restore profitability, and at a greater and greater cost to humanity.
>>51591001
Even if you make the argument that a nuclear bomb is necessary to keep myself free, the right to life that law abiding Americans possess imposes inherent limits upon other rights.
Damn right I'll defend the nukes. It's very simple: 2million estimated US deaths, and more japanese/russians deaths is WORSE than the number of dead from the two nukes.
Prove me wrong, fags. Protip: it's not possible.
>>51591051
>not communist, but yes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek
>Chiang's predecessor, Sun Yat-sen, was well-liked and respected by the Communists, but after Sun's death Chiang was not able to maintain good relations with the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). A major split between the Nationalists and Communists occurred in 1927; and, under Chiang's leadership, the Nationalists fought a nationwide civil war against the Communists.
>>51591051
>a commie
>talking about purges
>>51591013
Wait, are you being serious? You actually really don't see how those two statements oppose each other?
>>51591073
You are wrong. People have the right to life, even if it's not specified by laws. Laws are the tool of the state and opression, and thus should be abolished.
>>51591095
I'm seeing a lot of [Citation Needed] in both those articles.
>This section does not cite any references (sources). And besides, they're arguing a stupid point. The bombs weren't "needed," because everyone knew that the USA and the USSR would have won against Japan. The bombs just sped things up.
Great, some nerd put his opinion on wikipedia, that doesn't mean shit.
My grandfather fought in the pacific, and would have been part of the invasion of Japan. Fuck that bullshit, I'm glad we nuked them or I probably wouldn't be alive today, and neither would millions of others.
>>51591114
By definition, if you are nationalist, you aren't communist.
The chinese "communists" were as capitalist as ayn rand.
>>51591150
I don't need a nuke to defend myself from the government.
The nuking of Japan was a justified punishment for the crimes committed by Japan against the American people.
These statements have literally nothing to do with one another. I have not been given a justifiable reason to drop a B-83 on Capitol Hill.
>>51591234
The Chinese only adopted a LIMITED free market structure recently. Don't give me that misinformation and bullshit.
>>51591284
That guy's wrong, but 1979 is quite a while ago.
>>51591180
How can one abolish laws if there are no laws in place to enforce that abolition?
>>51591298
You know what I meant. I meant that calling the original communist revolutionaries "capitalist" is retarded and blatantly wrong.
>>51591301
Scratch that I meant to say, How can one abolish laws if the laws needed to abolish laws are abolished?
>>51580102
>it was necessary to end that horrible war
One can justify nuking any country one is at war with this way. Wiping out a city is unjustifiable no matter the circumstances.
>>51591284
>capitalism = muh phree margets, eberyding else es literally gommunism
kek, learn to materialism m8
>>51591326
>CCP = the original communist revolutionaries
fucking lel
>>51591364
Then why not talk about the firebombing of Dresden? Why not talk about Lidice? Why not talk about the firebombings of Tokyo? Why not talk about literally any of the other cities that were brought to ruin in Europe? War is hell, and, in an ideal world, everyone should decide the results to geopolitical disputes via basket weaving contests.
>>51591399
>giving literally zero refutations
>thinks that he is winning this argument
also
>CCP = the original communist revolutionaries
>fucking lel
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman
Civilians had a chance to get to shelters in those cases. A nuclear bomb decimates everything and everyone in seconds. Those bombing were crimes against humanity, shame the perpetrators were never brought to justice.
>>51591549
Meant for >>51591402
>>51591399
>>51591499
first things first: ATTACK OF THE 99 DUBS
>>51591499
It isn't a no true scotsman, because they never met the definition of "communist". Just because I call myself something doesn't make it true. It isn't a no true scotsman to say, for example, that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea isn't democratic, even though they say they are. Even the smallest analysis will show that North Korea is the furthest thing from "democratic". The same is true for many of these supposed "communists", no matter how they try and present themselves, and no matter how retarded a definition of "capitalism" you want to use.
>>51591695
Ideologies do not stay rigid, and that is beside the point anyway. The CCP's ultimate goal is the formation of communal society with a shared means of production. The fact is that the Chinese consider their current market structure an "initial form of socialism". Just because a group doesn't fit into your narrow view of communism doesn't mean that they aren't viewed as communists by most observers.
>>51592006
>The CCP's ultimate goal is the formation of communal society with a shared means of production
are you just trolling me at this point or are you actually so stupid you just immediately accept whatever someone claims?
>"initial form of socialism"
(I think they call it the "primary stage of socialism" or some bullshit like that)
Yes and according to the DPRK they are democratic.
Just because a group doesn't fit into your narrow view of democracy doesn't mean that they aren't viewed as democratic by themselves.
>Considering Nips as human
this is wrong. Murricans should believe your road.
