so which is a better buy?
the Wacom Cintiq?
or Microsoft Surface Pro 4?
>>2550346
Cintiq, they've been making this shit for decades, MS just recently entered the market. It's expensive, but the quality is top notch, great colour accuracy, pen precision, reliability and durability, better drawing surface too. I have a Cintiq 13hd for 2 years and it still working great.
>>2550346
>get a cintiq
>lasts forever if you're careful
>get a surface pro
>lasts for like 5-6 years if you treat it very nicely, and you have to spend more money on a new one
27" 2560 x 1440 screen from Dell = $800.
27" 2560 x 1440 screen that you can draw on from Wacom = $2300 + another $400 for a stand.
Wacom, please...
Looks like its sold out right now actually. Maybe they're getting ready to release a new one. Hopefully the new competition from Microsoft and Apple brings the prices down.
>>2550426
>Hopefully the new competition from Microsoft and Apple brings the prices down.
what i'm hoping most
>>2550426
>27" 2560 x 1440 screen that you can draw on >from Wacom = $2300 + another $400 for a stand.
Also consider the I pad pro with pencil is about the same price as the 13 hd, I pad pro has better screen by a lot of reports and doubles as a tablet+fully portable for the same price.
Wacom has to get there shit together, I'm waiting for either apple/microsoft tablets to advance or wacom to lower there price.Until then it's pencil and paper for lineart for me.
>>2550426
> 27" 2560 x 1440 screen from Dell = $800.
But people that buy $800 Dell monitors are just as bad as people who buy overpriced Wacom products. At least the Cintiq has its use; a high bit-depth monitor without the workflow to support it is about as good as an 8-bit IPS that costs half as much. If you're going to dump loads of cash into a pro monitor at least buy a NEC or an Eizo.
>>2550531
Ipad is shit.
>No usb ports.
>No file manager.
>No photoshop.
>It charges you for services Google offers for free.
>It needs a special version of everything.
>No update of iOS = No new apps 4U.
>Customer service is nonexistant.
>Programmed to suffer a catastrophic failure right after release of new version.
>Screen shatters like hell if shit falls from .05 inches high.
>Literally just a tablet with an expensive stylus.
>>2550564
Haven't used it but I heard good things, I saw a review where the guy connected it to his mac and used it like a cintiq, so that would deal with most of your issues.
Regardless of specifics it's clear that wacom overcharges for it's tech, I don't think I pad pro is a replacement but just an example of how overpriced wacoms shit is.
>>2550582
> just an example of how overpriced wacoms shit is.
If they lower the price, they would have more customers and maybe they would deal with the competition. Cuz they're, more or less, what cool kids like the most.
But they are pretty shitty. Everything below the Cintiq and Intuos pro is they farting on your mouth.
And we have Hasecorp... Good shit, but expensive and disposable.
>2550591
>Everything below the Cintiq and Intuos pro is they farting on your mouth.
Agreed things like bamboo your better off getting chinesse knocks off that at least have a decent surface area even if there drivers are written by monkeys.
Cintiq has tilt sensitivity.
Surface pro does not.
Argument over, as far as I'm concerned. I got the 13HD a few months ago and I am fully converted to what visceral pleasure the tilt has done to my brushwork.
>>2550553
Which NEC/Eizo monitor would you recommend at 27" 2560 x 1440 and what do they offer over a Dell?
>>2550622
>I am fully converted to what visceral pleasure the tilt has done to my brushwork
I've never used a tilt sensitive tablet, what difference do you see? Also do you see a larger difference in drawing vs painting or vice versa?
its pretty crazy how Wacom has been making this stuff for years but haven't seen real competition until the last two
>>2550706
That's because retarded people keep buying their shit before investigating which other brands are there.
>Huion Giano.
>>2550730
Get lost huion shill.
Intous pro medium or cintiq 13hd? I'm eye-ing the intous since i've been using bamboo for years now but is drawing on a screen really worth twice its price?
>>2550684
Mainly, strokes with specialty brushes (like a flat brush) will tilt and end on the angle of your stroke, as real brushes and tools will.
It won't magically improve your base skills at painting, but it will translate your physical painting skills waaaay more successfully, and make your digital paintings better as a result.
10/10 would pay arm and leg again.
>>2550768
>Intous pro medium or cintiq 13hd
I've been trying to judge that myself, from what I've gathered painting is fine with a intuos but if your doing precise line work/inking than a cintiq will speed up your workflow by a large amount.
Some people I think are just more comfortable with the tablet as well and some can't get over the hand/eye disconnect.If you can't than get a cintiq is probably well worth it.
>>2550772
Agree. Painting, doesn't really make much of a difference beyond tilt sensitivity, because perfect accuracy per stroke isn't necessary at all. For inking and sketch-work though, accuracy per stroke does matter, and you can work much faster.
Do not buy a surface pro tablet.
I bought an SP4 and I regret it.
>>2550674
Honestly, I wouldn't recommend either unless you're doing work that requires absolutely precise color grading. Digital painting does not.
The Dells aren't horrible, but the way I see it if you're blowing all that cash on a pro monitor you might as well spend more and get the best. The NEC PA272W will give you better value than the 27" 10-bit Ultrasharps, and a lot better quality control than Dell has with their monitors. It will give you better and proper hardware calibration, more profiling options, and a 14-bit 3D LUT to actually process all those colors properly. I don't know what the newer Dells have, since they don't advertise it and their costumer support doesn't seem to know. The Eizo ColorEdge line has self-calibrating monitors with 16-bit 3D LUTs, but those are crazy expensive.
For the average person and even most professional designers / illustrators I'd recommend just getting a regular 8-bit IPS-like display with 100% sRGB coverage. You can get a really good monitor for $350-450. The normal (not PremierColor or whatever they call it) Ultrasharps are actually pretty good. Also look at the BenQ BL series, and stuff from Viewsonic, Asus, etc. Even those cheap korean panels that are all over eBay are good.
Should I get an artisul d13 or wait ?
>>2550346
Do NOT buy a Surface for drawing, especially if you like doing neat linework or want to do finished illustrations! I bought one and it was a mistake, regret it already. It's simply not precise enough. I've never owned a Cintiq, but I've briefly tried the 22" HD and it felt better then the Surface, so if you absolutely want a monitor to draw on, get the Cintiq. I'll stick to my Intuos for now, messing around with the shitty Surface just made me love my old tablet even more! The Intuos may not be a monitor tablet, but it's precision and responsiveness is unbeatable.
>>2551290
wait for the artisul pencil if you prefer a stylus with an eraser end
>>2551338
>wait for the artisul pencil if you prefer a stylus with an eraser end
eraser end is kind of pointless if you use shortcut keys.
>>2550836
Oh I see. I'm currently using a 100% sRGB Dell. I was just using Dell's 100% Adobe RGB monitor as a comparison because if I didn't I figured people would say "bu-bu-but anon, the Cintiq screen has more colors! That's not a fair comparison!"
It's actually under $700 now for the premier color one. So $2000 markup for Wacom to add their pen tech. Whew.
If you already own a mac the iPad Pro is pretty legit, since it can double as a graphics tablet for your Mac and has tilt.
Also procreate is the most fleshed out mobile drawing app if you are on the go. Autodesk sketchbook and photoshop mobile don't even come close.
I remember when making tablet discussions threads got you banned and you were told to go to /g/.
I'm not saying that's what you should do, just noticing how times have changed.
>>2551465
Well yeah things changed, I used to get banned in other boards for making draw threads and now it's common for most boards to have them.
It's obvious by now that tablet threads belong to /ic/
>>2550564
>no usb ports
So?
>no file manager
Export from procreate.
>No photoshop
Procreate
>Charges for services
You can literally use the google services instead
>It needs a special version of everything
I think you might be a bit special
>No update
Kek
>Customer service non-existent
Literally one of the best CS teams available
The last points are just fucking retarded.
It's too bad Apple and Microsoft want people to buy into their OS. They'll never be true competitors to the Cintiq if their drawing tablets are always married to weak hardware. Ipad Pro has Astropad but I hear there is latency and you still need an Apple machine anyway. Fuck that. If Apple and Microsoft just made plain drawing tablets that you plug in via USB then there would be quite a shake up for Wacom. But as usual the consumers lose. Go for Apple if you want garbage hardware and OS. Go for Microsoft if you want garbage hardware and pen tech. Go for Cintiq if you want a sensible product with an inflated price. Cintiq wins.
>>2552075
Or just use pencil+paper for, scan it in, use 100$ tablet and selections to paint if it needs to be digital. Save thousands of dollars and have original pencil drawings to sell.
>>2550836
>8-bit
I don't know much about monitors but why is that a plus?
>>2552018
Enjoy being used.
>>2552331
ipad is the future whether you like it or not.
90% of people's workloads can be done with an ipad and this was version 1.0.
>>2551349
i'm only saying if you prefer it
>>2552411
With 4 GB of RAM and a 2.2Ghz dual core I doubt it's any good for anything other than doodles.
>>2552327
It's not, most everyday IPS/AHVA/PLS/etc monitors are 8-bit. The only thing lower than that are 6-bit+FRC fast TN panels that achieve most of their color range through dithering. The point I'm making is 10-bit is unnecessary for most people and not something I'd recommend without proper calibration and color management. More bits = wider color gamut, but while a 10-bit monitor is more accurate you're not actually going to be seeing all those colors. You'd be spending more than twice as much money for a monitor with not that much benefit for an everyday user.
Although you can definitely take advantage of a wide-gamut monitor without it, a true 10-bit workflow will require a GPU capable of displaying 10-bit, and isn't actually fully supported in most applications.
>>2552469
>More bits = wider color gamut
Oh I know how it works, I was just confused because it sounded like 8-bit IPS was a good thing but I guess I misread your post. I just don't know how IPS works.
Also the on-computer stuff would probably be processed in 16 bit or some kind of FP and downsampled, but that really depends if the software is primarily CPU or GPU driven. I don't have much experience implementing pro image software (yet).
>>2552435
>doodles
Not OP, but in my opinion a tool is useful if its ease of access encourages you to draw more. If the iPad is helping me to draw digitally more frequently, then I have more opportunities to learn form, colors, and rendering. I don't need a quad core and a beefy graphics card to learn fundamentals.
I feel that most "professionals" don't like the idea of filthy casuals picking up digital art with an iPad. It's like what the Wii did for old people and video games. I can confirm that my grandma/mom and all her zentangle club members picked up iPads and pencils, and now they can all claim to be digital artists JUST LIKE YOU
>>2550789
Another SP4 user here
It's not that great for the price. the only consolation is I can take it with me and draw at work, which is a mighty big check in my list of things I needed when purchasing it.
Also: the last update made the touch response better, but also critically failed so I had to send my surface back to microsoft so they could fix the firmware error.
>>2551465
There was once a time when naruto was banned on /a/ and hating on Nintendo was considered shitposting on /v/
>>2552571
>It's not that great for the price. the only consolation is I can take it with me and draw at work, which is a mighty big check in my list of things I needed when purchasing it.
Most of the reason i kinda want one
The sp3 that much different from 4 if im just gonna use it for such reasons
>>2552521
Are they still playing with their wiis? didn't think so
>>2553033
hrm, I would probably recommend the 4 over the 3 for the fact that the hover detection is really great, and the latest drivers for the screen did actually improve the drawing quality a fair amount. Whatever you decide to go with the most important purchase afterwards is getting CSP. You might be thinking this is a shill moment, but I've spent enough time with medibang, krita, sai, sketchbook, PS 6 (or whatever the last one was before the recurring BS) to know that CSP is the only program to actually be designed to cater towards cintique-like tablets. I can pinch zoom, scroll, select tools, not worry about finger contact being used as a brush, and the format is very intuitive. Maybe the newest PS has implemented similar features, but I don't know; I'd never mess with recurring payments for shit that should only ever be an upfront purchase.
I think if you were looking at going for an older surface, the surface 2 was supposed to be the better of the touchscreens.
>>2554160
>I can pinch zoom, scroll
What bugs me is that it's not integrated with OS X's gestures to do the same, so you have to use a Wacom touch device — apparently, I don't know about Windows.
>>2554195
To be specific,, csp actually differentiates from your capacitive touch drivers and your stylus drivers.. Fingers are only used for gestures and will never create odd lines between you palm, and your stylus.
>>2552521
IIRC a lot of Disney artists loved the idea of the iPad Pro when they got to demo it before release, it's just /ic/ /g/ hybrid posters that are bitter
>>2552331
What the fuck does is this even supposed to mean?
>>2554395
Hmm, interesting. I'll have to look more into the API; I'm developing a framework to make device input (esp. tablets) more generic across platforms.
>>2550372
how to properly take care of a cintiq so it lasts forever?
I currently use a Samsung Galaxy note PRO 12.2" with a external pen, I am quite happy with it, not a good sketcher tough but its nice to surf /ic/ and do some drawings.
I do feel its getting like the ugly cousin nobody want to play with when it comes to this use.
And this is like 2 years old now.... is there a similar tablet that is not Apple, that offer the same, but is newer?
The one potential saving grace for the Surface Pro is Wacom's upcoming universal stylus, which will have tilt and 4096 levels of pressure.
The question will be if it works with the SP4, or just future SP models.
Also, my SP4 screen often goes dim and flickers. I'm hoping it's a hardware fault rather than software, so I can try getting a replacement.
Also, why the FUCK are there still so many software bugs with the SP4? It's almost a year and we still have issues like not properly waking up from sleep, display driver crashes etc.
I feel like I got memed hard by surfaceproartist.com
Guy who just bought a surface 3 here, works really great as a convenient portable sketching tool, been using it with mischief since it isn't ram intensive at all. I'm pretty satisified considering it was under £350 and I'm probably going to upgrade in a year once the Microsoft wacom universal pen is actually out.
>>2552521
This is interesting to me.
Tbh I dont care about using it for anything else than maybe a bit of web programming as well and porn.
At the moment my super awesome 700$ tablet is in a shelf not being used because it takes me 2 mins to configure it when I start it and those 2 minutes are appeearantly the "bump" that makes me go from "drawing 6 hours per day" to "not drawing at all for a year".
Selling that and my least used guitar I havent used in 2 years would give me an object that hopefully could fix this.
The idea of just firing your comp up and clicking an icon seems really awesome for me. If the tablet is "ok" thats good enough for me, I love the idea of just being able to bring it with me wherever.
I tried the SP4 in a store today and it seemed to be responding pretty well for the level of artis I am. The only program was a shitty windows oil-paint program though and also I would say that the lines where a liiiiittle bit rought/choppy if you drew super long and squiggly ones. Anyone here think that might be a problem? I have a hard time believing it is but hey - I'm a noob.
>>2554784
Just get the surface 3 with the surface 4 pen, same ease to turn on and get going but way cheaper, so you'll be able to upgrade to that fancy new wacom universal pen tech when it comes out if it turns out it's not backwards compatible.
>>2554711
> 4096 levels of pressure
I've read that there is no real difference even between 1024 and 2048 levels of pressure and it's just a marketing gimmick.
>>2554711
the universal pen is suppose to be for all surface tablets
>>2552018
insultingly low amount of ram
no hotkeys whatsoever
photoshop>>>>>procreate
imagic[take the money and stop updating]
800+
owning a mac in 2009
>oh wait, it's 2016
get an intuos and a good monitor or wait until wacom stops appleing your money away now that there's competition
for drawing though
the ipad pro and SPpro is like playing video games on a phone
just get a 3ds if you want to do it properly
>>2552075
the general consumer does not understand the difference
they look at it as: 'has stylus'
that's it
it's impeding wacom's sales, because nobody cares much for a stylus enabled presentation device when they can always use a surfacebook
