>4 years of practice
>no progress at all
And you hypocrites were telling that talent is just a meme
>>2524021
What type(s) of practice did you do? What was your starting point? How much time do you spend practicing each day?
try to find a different way to learn
>>2524021
>Focusing on time spent rather than lessons learned
you had it coming desu
>>2524021
spend more than 1 hour a week drawing, faggot
Where is your reference?
>>2524030
What? I have been focusing on learning since the beginning, I cant do more than that
>>2524034
At least 2 hours per day
>>2524036
pic rel
>>2524021
your '4 years' of practise was probably only an hour a day
The image just looks unfinished honestly , like u spent 15 mins on a shitty sketch and gave up.Looking at the ref u just like gave up on one of the eyes for no reason.
Your problem could honestly just be mental it seems, finish your work and post it again.
>>2524021
I like to think of talent as intelligence. Seems like you're just too stupid to figure out how to improve or realize your mistakes.
>>2524061
>I like to think of talent as intelligence
There are examples of incredibly intelligent people without talent, and people who are stupid in most subjects being incredibly talented in another.
While there is probably some degree of correlation between the two, intelligence is not synonymous with talent.
>>2524061
Well, I have no talent then. Somehow people are spouting shit like talent doesnt exist or doesnt mean shit when its false.
>>2524063
The problem is "talent" is not easily defined and cannot be measured so of course there will be varying opinions on its existence and importance.
>>2524066
So you think working 8+ hours a day doing studies and personal work for years, going from stick figures to professional quality work by slaving at it for thousands of hours is "talent"? Because that's pretty much what every pro I've heard says when asked how they got where they are.
If that's your idea of "talent" then I guess you don't have it, neither does op. But the rest of us just call it laziness.
>>2524082
What are you talking about? Nowhere did I bring any of that up at all. And nowhere did I say that talent can replace hard work.
Talent would be two people both doing that 8 hour a day thing, but after years of it one of them is a mediocre professional barely good enough to make a living, and the other one becomes one of the best in the world.
some people don't know how to apply themselves
truly a shame
>>2524021
If you aren't improving, it probably means that you aren't changing your approach to practicing.
Try changing something simple in your routine. Draw in a sketchbook instead of digitally. Use a pen instead of pencil. Pick up a paintbrush, use color if you don't already.
You will only improve in areas in which you are interested. Sometimes you need to change things up to keep it interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWcapC-kriY
It sounds like you're just looking for an excuse to quit or pity, maybe both. If you don't enjoy what you're doing, stop. If you do enjoy it, keep at it.
There are no excuses, no unfair advantages and no genetics that play into it. You either work at it or you don't. If you don't want to work at it, fine. Do something else and be better for it.
Everyone's whose successful at a specific skill based trade did the same thing; they worked hard, failed, learned, and worked hard some more. Ask yourself what you need to do more of and do that.
>>2524063
Personally I believe talent is real. Lack of it isn't an excuse though. If you're doing 2 hours a day for years and only do that, there's something wrong with your approach. As another anon said, what you posted looks unfinished, like you spent a few minutes then gave up. Your stuff will always look shit when you do that.
Unless you have a mental disorder that manifests in areas outside art, you're just halfassing it.
I don't believe in talent. I believe that some artists improve quicker because they found the best way to study. (For themselves) and/or they spend a passive way of studying fundamentals while being unaware of it. Like a kid who is more interested in geometric shapes (form/perspective) or maybe spend a lot of time in a social envirorment that they can grasp body language lanuage better. There are more examples like that. And I think those things can realy influence the thinking and improvement of an individual.
>>2524097
>>2524021
> talent is just a meme
YES
did you even practice m8??
>>2524021
>>2524051
> I have been focusing on learning since the beginning, I cant do more than that
What lessons exactly did you learn though? In that portrait painting specifically, I don't see any sense of form or understanding of values and not the slightest bit of proper construction. Basically all things any serious aspiring artist would learn in their first year. No matter how little aptitude towards these things they'd have, you'd at least see them try to apply these concepts. You are either trolling or you fell for the "Loomis is a meme" meme.
>>2524021
I sense a strong antispark within you
>>2524021
Stop making excuses, you know very well it's your own fault. You probably paint once a month
>>2524114
Maybe because i am tired with getting really shitty art.
>>2524114
kek
>>2524097
This
>>2524118
this thread
>>2524021
>unquestionably spends more time playing vidya, shitposting or wasting time in a group chat than drawing and painting
>gets upset that there hasn't been much improvement
>>2524021
Get on your ass, stop whining, and draw.
get good faggot
>>2524113
b-but loomis is bad
>>2524269
woah source?
>>2524269
How many hours per week senpai?
>>2524021
Practice does not make you good, actually learning where your faults lies, general techniques, and study of anatomy make you good.
And yes, it is a skill, not a talent, unless you're an idiot savant.
>>2524021
I practice like 10 hours a week max and I'm better than most people I know who study full time. To be fair though, I contemplate drawing and design fundamentals literally constantly.
>>2524021
It's a sign, Anon. Stop wasting time on art.
>>2524269
>days go by dirty vegas
>>2524269
blog?
>>2524021
You're just not trying hard enough
Ever wonder why your friends in highschool did better than you even though you were in the same school for the same amount of time?
>>2524021
>4 years of practice
practice doesn't make perfect
perfect practice makes perfect
good practice makes good
shit practice makes shit
>>2524269
is it suppose to impress me or just made me straight quit, cant really tell.
Can you please put a progression chart together?
If you go for a month without progressing, you need to try to find a new method for learning, because what you're doing is obviously not working.
If you keep doing the same shit you know hasn't been helping you improve for four YEARS, you're part of the problem here. Why didn't you try to find a qualified artist or atelier to study under if working on your lonesome wasn't working? Why would you waste four years fixating on a method that didn't work?
Nobody to blame but yourself, bro.
>>2524269
this shit is fake as fuck, even if it isnt, there is no info on what he did between 2014 and 2015
>>2524312
Is killing myself the best way to get good? Why do you fucks post any tips then
>>2525097
>there is no info on what he did between 2014 and 2015
Well obviously, he didn't laze around like a dumbfuck.
>>2525104
Thanks for your contribution
>>2524021
>
read keys to drawing and actually let the info stick, also don't rush
>>2524066
>>2524082
So much misunderstanding and stubborn American egalitarian brainwashing.
Talent is innate ability and rate of improvement from practice.
Innate ability is undeniable, if you take two random people and have them perform a series of different tasks in which they had no prior training, they will not perform identically. One will be better at memorization, another will be better at balancing a ball on their head.
THE INEQUALITY OF MAN IS AN ABSOLUTE AND UNDENIABLE REALITY.
No man is born equal. Your constitution is wrong about that, burger. We all have things we are naturally good or not so good at. Some people are very gifted, others just a little bit. It varies from person to person.
That does not mean that practice isn't necessary though. Everybody improves with practice. Talent just means that practice will actually be worth it and lead to real improvement as opposed to wasting your time on painfully learning something you have no talent for.
There are two huge motivations to deny the existence of talent. Highly skilled people see talent as an accusation of laziness and insult to the hard work they put in to perfect their craft. The other is unskilled people without talent who want to believe they can reach the highest level if they just keep working hard.
This is of course nonsense. A base level of talent is absolutely necessary for practice to produce worthwhile results. You can spend the same hours Micheal Jordan did on shooting hoops, you will not become as good as him because you lack the talent he has.
>>2525157
Shut the fuck up, please.
>>2524097
>>2524108
So, basically, you deny biology. Are you both communists by any chance?
Do you know that when you apply for the army, they check your innate abilities and give you a list of things that you can and can't apply for based on your stats? You can't become a fighter pilot if your reaction time is slow, no amount of training will change that. You can't become a sniper if your eye sight is shit.
>>2525166
Truth hurts, don't it?
>>2525157
bro
drawing is literally just measuring proportions and simulating color
unless you're handicapped you can do it fine
>>2525197
Some people can't even draw a circle without chicken scratching.
You're either lying to yourself or far removed from reality about the differences in quality of innate motor functions.
Of course you can learn, nowhere do I deny that. It's just that different people will learn at different rates. That is a reality.
Have you ever looked at your classmates handwriting in school? Some looked legit handicapped, like from stroke victims, while others are naturally full of beautiful swings and curves. There it is. Talent.
>>2525168
Some people are too stupid to realize how their stupidity is hurting them.
>>2525202
I really don't understand the point you're trying to make here. are you really saying that some people are genetically unable of drawing a circle? if so I disagree
>>2525168
How am I denying biology?
>>2525157
Talent is really just hard work. If you do not have the ability to be as persistent and work as hard then you won't get as good.
>>2524021
epic bait thread senpai
>>2525157
This predicates off the apparent belief that unless you're on the track to become literally a legend a la Michael Jordan there is no point in trying at all.
And yet there are hundreds of players in the NBA who will never be Steph Curry and still manage just fine.
Art, above most other creative fields, is an area where one can reliably chart and see their improvement, if they're doing the right things to improve. There's much more concrete evidence of becoming good at art than say, writing, because technical skills are more firmly separated from subject.
Talent can be a head start in the marathon to mastery. Talent can be riding a bike in that marathon while everyone else is running. Talent gets people to the end faster, provided they put in the required work.
But anyone can finish the marathon if they put the right work into it. They may not be the first to cross the finish line, but there is nothing holding anyone back from mastering the technical skills required to make good art.
They may never have the innate talent to create generational works of art, but fuck, man, if your standards are 'unless you're MJ just give up basketball' why do you even bother getting up in the morning?
Also, AMERICA FUCK YEAH.
>>2525248
>Also, AMERICA FUCK YEAH.
Too bad americaburgers suck at art
>>2525215
A round circle, without practice. Yes.
>>2525217
Whether you're aware of it or not, you believe in a 100% nurture and 0% nature model which has long been disproven by biology.
>>2525233
This is wrong. Talent is not hard work. Skill is the result of hard work. Talent is innate ability. Talent is gradual rather than there or not. Talent is marked by the initial base ability without training and the rate of skill increase when that ability is trained. These attributes vary from person to person.
>>2525248
>This predicates off the apparent belief that unless you're on the track to become literally a legend a la Michael Jordan there is no point in trying at all.
Baseless conjecture. I never said that nor implied that. No matter how talentless you are at drawing or anything else in life, if you enjoy the process and deem the journey a worthwhile way to spend your time, even if you may never reach your destination, then go for it.
OP seems to feel he wasted his time based on a lie though, not very enjoyable.
I'm sure he could have improved more if he had worked harder or smarter but that is truly besides the point. All I'm saying is that when two people undergo the same amount and quality of training, their skill increase will never be exactly the same.
Talent is just a mixture of intelligence and circumstance
>>2525301
>when two people undergo the same amount and quality of training, their skill increase will never be exactly the same
wow news at eleven
there are so many variables that change over the time it takes you from 'not knowing shit' to 'being somewhat acceptable' other than 'talent' that I really wonder how important this ethereal concept really is
unless you want to be the next sargent of course
You guys are such fags.
>>2525248
>And yet there are hundreds of players in the NBA who will never be Steph Curry and still manage just fine.
And yet there are thousands of college and street players who will never make it in the NBA, no matter how much or how smart they train.
>Art, above most other creative fields, is an area where one can reliably chart and see their improvement, if they're doing the right things to improve.
Are you of the mind that I said anything to the contrary? Of course everybody can improve and will improve to some degree if they practice. That is true for everything in life. Doesn't say anything about where you start off or how fast you will improve.
>Talent can be a head start in the marathon to mastery. Talent can be riding a bike in that marathon while everyone else is running.
This is the kind of bullshit thinking that leads to talented people denying there even is such a thing as talent because you make it sound as if they are cheating. Nobody is created equal. Fairness is not a universal quality, it's a human delusion.
>But anyone can finish the marathon if they put the right work into it. They may not be the first to cross the finish line, but there is nothing holding anyone back from mastering the technical skills required to make good art.
You may improve your art for all your life and never reach the same level of skill as the masters of art have. Rob Liefeld will never be able to produce art like John Romita Jr. He just doesn't have it in him.
>They may never have the innate talent to create generational works of art, but fuck, man, if your standards are 'unless you're MJ just give up basketball' why do you even bother getting up in the morning?
I'm not the one who needs to delude himself into denying the existence of talent just to cope. I never told anybody to give up anything. I only reject the foolish idea that every last human on this planet can learn to paint like a master if they just spend enough time practicing and applying themselves.
>>2525317
Go vote for bernie fgt
>>2525306
>wow news at eleven
There's people in this very thread denying that fact.
>this ethereal concept
There is nothing ethereal about it.
Take a group of people, make them perform a task they've never done before. Some will be much better at it than others.
There. that's talent, you mong. Nothing ethereal about it.
Now, if you take the people that suck and train them while the talented ones sit on their ass, after a while the sucky ones will perform better. That's the power of hard work.
Let them all train and the talented ones will blow the sucky ones out of the water.
>>2525330
The fuck, nigger? Are you trolling me, bro? Quoted the wrong post? Trump 2016.
MAGA, bitch!
>>2525339
*brofist*
>>2524269
2014 to 2015 was an explotion of gains what the fuck did you do?! you're the brother who says " nah man i only drew for like 4 hours on the week ends" right? such strong lines..:' -(
>>2524638
>>2525034
Its 4xiszerO
>>2524993
Real fucking music.
>>2524643
>>2525343
Alright listen, the time you put in is yours, everybody is different and learn differently, until two days ago I didnt draw for a month and I still feel like I improved on anatomy because I thought about it everytime I had the chance. i think a lot of people here are underestimating mind drawing. Time is important to learn drawing, but the method and your mindset is even more important. It means nothing if you mindlessly draw for hours without thinking about what you're drawing and how you do it.
>>2525157
You sound like a pretentious /lit/ fag
>>2524021
Talent is real
Art is more than just skill
The thing is, the skills are easily attained if you have talent. The talented must still practice, but they will practice less than the plebs to git gud.
>>2525245
sadly it isnt.
>>2525317
>Rob Liefeld will never be able to produce art like John Romita Jr.
and yet robert meme machine liefeld is 1000x more influential john romita lel
>>2525157
>its a /ic/ talks about talent thread
wew
>>2525248
fuck off burger
>>2527148
You are a disgrace to your trade and its traditions.
>>2525197
bro
mathematics is literally just logic and analysis
i don't see the point. simply because you can learn it doesn't mean you'll ever get good at it. i can understand how a pc works, that doesn't mean i can replicate it. i can understand what composition the great masters used and why, that doesn't mean i can come up with good compositions on my own.
there are people who learn calculus with 15 years and perfectly understand it while there are people who will never or very roughly grasp it. why? because some people are more gifted in certain things than others.
some people simulate color, light, right proportions and so on much more naturally than others while some will never get it right no matter how easy it might be in theory.
>>2527226
>implying that anyone can't learn maths
It's true, you know. When you turn eleven, an owl will bring you a letter of invitation to the math school, where you will practice Multiplication, Derivation, Fractal-making, and Defence Against the Humanities.
>>2524021
Learning how to learn is more important than learning how to draw desu
You can't git gud just by drawing a lot. You need to recognize your mistakes and fix them afterwards. Analyze your drawing for what makes it look shit and redraw it until you're satisfied with it.
Doing one such study might be more beneficial than 4 years of whatever it is that you've been doing m8.
>>2524021
you never had the spark anon
>>2527226
>>2525157
>THE INEQUALITY OF MAN IS AN ABSOLUTE AND UNDENIABLE REALITY.
>You can spend the same hours Micheal Jordan did on shooting hoops, you will not become as good as him because you lack the talent he has.
This is ALWAYS how this argument devolves, every single time.
>"Do I need talent to get good?"
>"yes"
>"no"
>"LOL WHAT DO YOU THINK WE'RE ALL THE SAME? MICHAEL JORDAN IS BETTER AT BASKETBALL THAN YOU NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY!"
Getting good does not mean becoming one of the greatest of all time for fuck's sake. With enough work, everyone can get good at art, as long as you aren't literally retarded. With enough training everyone can get good at shooting hoops as long as they aren't physically disabled.
Lucky for us, art is not nearly as competitive as professional sports either, so what matters far more than technical skill is your artistic voice and what you actually have to say with your art.
>>2525168
Your drawing skills largely depends on your intelligence, which is not really genetic.
>>2527238
>You can't git gud just by drawing a lot. You need to recognize your mistakes and fix them afterwards......
That's not advice, it's common sense. If this isn't something you or OP understand naturally without being told you're a idiot and no amount of "learning" will make you good because you don't even grasp simple concepts without them being spelled out for you. I mean, looking at your work then at the ref and being able to see yours isn't correct and over time learning how to do it better is so simple you'd have to be retarded not to figure this out on your own.
When people say "draw and study all the time" they obviously mean do it intelligently. Thank you for being intentionally stupid in an attempt to sound smart.
When looking at other (better) artists work you should naturally be able to tell your work is worse and figure out what basic parts you need to work on, anatomy, rendering, etc. No one shouldn't have tell you to do it, if this isn't something you do with out being prompted then you probably don't have what it takes to become a professional.
If everyone constantly has to tell you how to do everything and you never figure shit out without a tutorial or youtube vid good luck "gittin' gud".
>trump says it's okay for me to be shit at art because we're all different little snowflakes! MAGA!
>falling for the gitgud meme
>instead of having fun with a pencil
>or any pencil provided by any computer program
You had it coming senpai.
>>2525577
>ntil two days ago I didnt draw for a month and I still feel like I improved on anatomy because I thought about it everytime I had the chance.
honestly, this arrogance will be your downfall
>>2530541
uhh, how is that arrogance ? do you know how knowledge works ?
>there are people in this forum RIGHT NOW that didn't become NEETs so they can draw full-time
It's like you guys aren't even trying to git gud
>>2525317
gotta love when the most ignorant people like to give their simplistic and half true views with the security of an expert.
>>2527345
if fixing mistakes were always something so obvious, cavemen would've been drawing like michelangelo.
lel
>>2530933
My art isn't exactly the best so I shouldn't talk, but you'd think after 4 years, they'd try to venture out of the chibi art style just a little bit?
>>2530728
I just can't live off my parents money, sry
>>2531460
>venture out of the chibi art style just a little bit?
They might have, they were drawing what is essentially a girl toon link in a hat
>>2531516
When is this coming out already holy fuck its been 4 years same with Yoko Laylee just come out already
>>2525157
OH GOD THE SPARK IS OVERFLOWING WITH THIS ONE
>>2524021
well you didn't learn anything so obviously there's no progress.
talent is an amalgamation of several factors. mindset, work ethic, even stuff like curiosity and the ability to critique yourself, among many many other things.
when i look at your image, i see that you haven't read many books, don't know many concepts, didn't study other artists art and technique. or if you did, you didn't internalize them in any way, shape or form.
and to be completely honest, i also see a lack of practice, despite you saying that you spend 4 years to get this far. it just looks like a failry basic and early attempt. it doesn't look like something you've tried and tested over and over again.
i'd honestly be shocked if it was.
because really, i don't think any of the hard concepts are "ungraspable" for the average human. they're hard to understand in the beginning, but you just have to butt heads with them over and over again.
i don't know what you were doing with your time, but you probably should've educated yourself more.
imagine going through school without textbooks or teachers, that's what you're doing.
-smug anime girl
>>2527168
And you're a disgrace to human kind, just by existing
btw north america is a mistake
>>2527236
i was pretty good at math before i get encephalopathy form 1-st type diabetes. And i literally unable to do complex logic now, that's why i lost my fucking job as programmer. I can handle basic shit but it's nowhere compared to my previous skills, i.e i remember all the theory and have shitload of experience but i just can't keep in memory all the shit and doing calculations so fucking slow that i was beating my table in frustration and almost crying unable to complete easy tasks even given huge amount of time. I'm pretty shure that many people are born with same level of comprehending that i have now, so your argument is ivalid.
>>2530541
That doesn't look like arrogance. What he's saying is be mindful of your time while learning
