How do I design my own monsters without making them looking cliche?
Use your imagination, if you can't do that then why are you even doing art? Alternatively you could mix and mash different existing monster components, eg head of a dragon body of a horse with the texture of a gelatanous monster
>>2509322
get inspired using reality or the reality of what other artists created and then you derivate from it
Make something not-scary scary.
animals are probably a good source for inspiration
You can't. Every possible combination of real life animals, mythological creates combined with fantastic elements and shape design that looks cool and interesting has already become a cliché.
The only thing you can do to avoid all clichés is design boring and stupid looking shit that no one ever did before because it just doesn't work.
If you want to do GOOD design, you have to embrace clichés, understand why something became a cliché in the first place and then give it your own twist.
>>2509338
Plants do a lot of cool shit that you could incorporate. For instance, a hypnotic monster that uses pheromones and misleading markings to manipulate its prey into servicing it or not attacking it, one that lives in an extremely sunny location that is covered in a thin, white pelage to reflect the light (this could also be used for an attack that blinds the player), something with no set body plan that is instead comprised of repeating units, one that secretes a resin from wounds that cause your weapon to stick and thus can only be fought with projectiles or magic, an airborne monster that floats on air sacs like pollen grains in wind-pollinated species, etc. They do a lot of cool stuff, if you mix that with a more mobile, animal-like body you might make something neat.
>>2509332
>general useless advice
>slightly more specific really bad advice
Just making lazy chimeras of totally random combinations is not creative, why are you telling people to be imaginative when your suggestion is so damn bland and uninteresting? If you're going to do something like that you at least need some sort of thematic link and subtleness, not just "head of x body of x lol".
Personally I agree with >>2509341 here.
Stuff that intentionally breaks tropes CAN be interesting but you can't go too far with it. People like a little bit of familiarity, most people generally feel good when they go "I knew that!" so having something they don't need to puzzle over is a lot less cognitively frustrating. You can challenge your audience occasionally but if you do it all the time they tend to switch off and disengage.
So as he said, embrace the cliche. Make it familiar, but add your little twist to make it distinct. If you need to, draw from slightly more obscure mythological creatures, there are plenty of them. Having some sort of foundation rather than throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks is generally more effective.
>>2509322
Method 1: Start with a random mess then try to make sense of it. Like looking at clouds. This prevents you from defaulting to cliches right away.
Method 2: Intentionally draw a stupid looking chimera built off of body parts from various real animals. But choose the animals intelligently, pick a quality you want your creature to have and then Frankenstein together diverse real world animals that possess this quality. Set this stupid drawing off to the side in your peripheral vision. Then with a loose hand and continuous line sketch a new version of your stupid creature based off the shapes you see in your peripheral vision. Try not to think too much or be too in control, allow your hand to wander and feel things out. Ideally you'll end up with a loose doodle that embodies characteristics of real animals but doesn't look like a derpy chimera. Refine from there.
Look up some love crafting type stuff, the best way to make a monster is to have anyone that sees it question what it is
writing is important. write down the word dragon, write down what words define dragons, make connections to those words with questions.
>dragons
>wings
>fire breathing
>why would a dragon breathe fire
>how would something with wings breathe fire
and then you just keep going until you hit on something clever. doesn't necessarily have to be a joke, could just be an interesting story. but you have to write in order to hit on original ideas.
>>2509555
also lmao at the people saying "just fuck around". that is NOT how you come up with character designs.
>>2509555
Huh, that is actually intriguing enough to try, thanks anon
>>2509322
open inspiration folder, open pureref, drop a ton of shit you find cool on pureref,
frankenstein your own monster out of parts and influences of the monsters in your pureref canvas.
easy.
>>2509562
>capeshit colorists
>those values
what the hell am i looking at.
>>2509567
That's a excellent formula for making a cookie cutter monster, but that was exactly what OP did not want.
>>2509322
idea --> silhouette --> form --> motif
>>2509562
its been a while since I've read capeshit. But why does superman have a metal jaw? wouldn't he break it doing every day shit? does he take it off when hes klark kent?
>>2509562
it would probably help if i give an example of one i wrote
this isn't really a character design as much as an illustration but it has elements of character design
>angel
>halo
>anglerfish
>what would be attracted to a halo
>angelfish
so the design is an anglerfish with a halo for a light, and the character that completes the design would be the angelfish being attracted to the halo
really simple stuff compared to other things i've written but i think it's a good example of a written concept.
>>2509322
1. Research the hypnagogic state. You may have noticed that when you're really sleepy you might get fleeting dream like images flashing by when you close your eyes. I can use this state to quickly get a dozen iterations of the same creature in a few seconds. It's weird but it works. Just think about all the weird shit you see in your dreams that you'd never come up with when you're fully awake.
2. Do NOT reference the latest games, movies and flavor of the month artists. Instead try to find inspiration (hint - think in terms of interesting shapes which you can find everywhere) from unexpected sources such as modernist sculpture or old toys. Go to flea markets and used book stores etc. I personally love old attic storages with a ton of different stuff. Always gets my creativity spinning.
3. Read fiction. Reading forces your brain to create images in your head rather than spoonfeeding you with everything. Reading is like a vitamin injection for your artistic juices.
>>2509322
Create art that tells a story. What kind of habitat does it live in? How does it obtain nourishment? What drives its behavior? Is it a divine entity? The sword/spear in that pic makes it more interesting than any vanilla design.
>>2509594
>Just think about all the weird shit you see in your dreams that you'd never come up with when you're fully awake.
this won't help him. a dozen iterations of a cliche is still a cliche
>Instead try to find inspiration (hint - think in terms of interesting shapes which you can find everywhere) from unexpected sources such as modernist sculpture or old toys.
again you are talking about iterations of existing ideas and not original concepts. just because you turned a square and made it a diamond doesn't mean you were original.
>Read
Writing is more important. Writing is actual a creative process, reading is just a time waster. Any concepts he can come up with are already in his head he just hasn't taken the time to write them down. OP knows what he likes already and what he wants to make original ideas about, reading isn't going to do anything for him.
>>2509599
I don't know about your dreams, but the things I see in my dreams certainly don't look like cliches.
As for your second point, everything is a iteration of an existing idea in some shape or form. The trick is to combine them from two or more sources you wouldn't normally think of connecting.
Lastly, if you haven't gotten new ideas from reading well too fucking bad for you. In my experience I've found reading to be extremely powerful for generating new ideas.
If you want to do good creature design, you need to study animals A LOT. Not just by drawing them, but you need to understand why they look the way they do. Read everything you can about zoology and paleontology and if you think that's overdoing it, you're wrong and lazy.
Every single good creature designer is extremely knowledgeable about animal anatomy, behaviour, morphology etc.
>>2509605
yes the trick is to combine image, phrase and word associations until it's something new, but you have to write to do that. i have rarely had a concept come to me just thinking, and when i do it's cause I had written an idea and thinking about a written concept helped me think of things like composition and color.
there is very little art you can make just sitting around with your thoughts the best way to come up with new ideas is to write and draw.
like for example this image. how the fuck would you come up with this in a dream or from reading? this image is extremely complicated it couldn't just "come to me" i had to write in order to make it.
>>2509617
>implying the best joke i ever wrote wasn't about jesus being black
>>2509559
o rly? i would argue going through such contrived steps to forumulate what you want to create is a far less creative process and philosophically speaking far less equitable to what one would truly consider art
>>2509616
Everyone is different. Clearly reading doesn't stimulate your mind the same way it does mine. It's up to OP to pick and choose which tools and strategies work for him.
>>2509621
>>2509627
i seem to be the only one posting about an actual process though, so if OP had to pick a strategy to go with mine's the only option.
>Read
>Think
>Dream
but nobody agrees on writing? i'd appreciate it if you guys could share concepts you've made and walk OP through your process because I'm the only one who's giving him any concrete advice with art to back it up
>>2509633
You haven't posted any creature designs though. And your methods and work are more applicable to editorial illustration. If Guillermo del Toro wants some creatures for Pans Labyrinth 2/Pacific Rim 2/Hellboy 3 or whatever... an angler fish with it's lure replaced with a halo isn't going to cut it.
>>2509616
>skeleton key
took a moment, but i like it
>>2509633
I couldn't just pick a drawing and describe it to you, let's say I started a drawing with maybe 1/4 of any kind of solid idea, for the ease of comparison to your example let's say a dragon. I begin with the wing, because why not? It's a very angular, sharp, long triangle shaped wing, so I decide that perhaps something metallic best suits this motif, but I also begin to think "natural", I think leaf (in this case it kind of echoes the design mentality of pokemon designs but not exclusively) and so I incorporate more natural elements into the metallic design, suddenly I'm creating a reptillian creature with metallic features and organic, natural, plant-like qualities. What else can I add? Well how about some robotic elements since this is a metallic beast.
It's akin to Bob Ross (I believe that's his name, the afro painter guy) just winging it in one of his video demonstrations, there is a flow, just not a preconceived one.
>>2509682
but that's not an attained skill. that's just what /ic/ calls a visual library. it's not masculine enough for what OP is looking for. i'll post the closest thing to a character design i did last year and that's this camel.
obviously what would be best for me would be where your more feminine techniques and my more masculine techniques meet somewhere in the middle and I can iterate on the design of the camel in more interesting ways other than "it's a camel", but originality is a completely different skillset than free-flowing design like you described. your designs aren't "original" necessarily. It's still a dragon. there's no concept other than dragon. "Metal Plant Dragon" isn't a concept it's a trope.
That being said I am in the infantile stages of writing skill. A more deft concept artist could come up with a clever take on "Metal Plant Dragon" but to say it's contrived just to have a concept based on "Dragon" is offensive and over-compensating for what our imaginations are actually capable of which is what >>2509646
is implying.
I'd be a much harder person to work for than Guillermo del Toro because I'd actually expect concepts and not designs.
Look up some early paleozooic animals, shit like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalocaris
The Burgess shale fauna and Chengjiang fauna are,good sources for unusual forms.
Looking at existing animals is good too. Try to think about the environment your monster would live in, and give it features that would help it survive in that environment. For example, something living in a desert might have narrow eyes to keep sand out, and a pouch or special organ for storing water.
>>2509696
I'm not getting the masculine/feminine thing- how does that apply to a design theory
>>2509322
I enjoy the design sensibilities of Alex Ries and William B Hand. Alex posts his stuff on deviantart, W.B. Hand posts lots of critter sketches on facebook but his other sites seem to be dated and forgotten.
Anyway, they both study from reality extensively and have built up a visual library to play with, as well as developed their own design sense. Same as designing for any other subject matter.
>>2509757
Stop humoring Brian
>>2509322
Think outside the box, look at good monster designers like Kazuma Kaneko or the Devil May Cry art staff.
You can get away with a lot of stuff. Like there's no reason your dragon can't have buildings protruding from its spine, or that you need to make just organic creatures.
>>2509795
literally who? this is my first time on /ic/
>>2509841
He's a regular who doesn't take criticism, has a big ego, and has weird taste and ideas about art.
>>2509852
hes got a big dick too
>>2509855
did he post nudes or something?
>>2509852
So... basically just another Dunning-Kruger Dunce like Illastrat.
>>2509861
Sort of. He is more skilled than Illastrat and a bit less hostile though. He also has done weird stuff like get overly obsessed with a particular camwhore and repeatedly drawn her over and over and got convinced they had a special connection.
>>2509873
>liking camwhores
>at all
Everything has been done before. As long as it isn't the most generic concept ever, just make sure its designed well visually and makes sense and you're good.
>>2509873
>>2510157
she was sending me photos of her with her face swapped with the drawings i made of her the other day. i like talking to her. not a big deal.
>mfw Sinh was the best boss fight and best music from DS2
>>2510199
>mfw DS2 just means Dirty Sprite 2 to me
>>2510195
do you send her the nude paintings you make of her?
>>2510201
yup. yup yup yup. cannot say yup enough. she basically knows everything she needs to know about me cause i tell her everything.
>>2510195
Uncanny
Remember the words of King Solomon and don't sweat it too hard.
It's more important that your design be thematically appropriate and visually captivating than that it be completely original.
Having said that, look at nature, look at obscure animals, look at very small animals, look at animals that are older to the dinosaurs than the dinosaurs are to us.
Whatever strangeness you can come up with, I guarantee there's something weirder that either exists now, or has existed in the past.
And remember, elephants are stranger than unicorns.
>>2509322
I don't think Sinh is a good example anon. He's just a Jabberwock type dragon design, the type everyone goes for when they want a non classic dragon. Its still good, but I prefer other designs from that series.
You should have used Kalameet or Seath
But anyway, don't try and do something really original, because you'll end up with something done a million times before that you just didn't know about, or it will just seem like an unrecognizable blob and not be a good design.
Get what you want, say your example of a dragon. Then if you know the context think about that, what's the story about, what does this monster do, what's its role. And then incorporate those themes into the design.
Like see Sinh has Yorgh's spear pierced through its chest, with pus (sickly green which generally signifies poison) seeping out, which relates to the lore. Also it has a texture like stone covered in moss, because its been asleep for millions of years in a damp place.
>>2510204
Did you finally tell her that her wart is fucking disgusting?
>>2509322
Merge animals together, take features and body parts from unusual animals (i.e not just lions and rhinos). Take an anteater and mix it with a giraff for example. Or take an anteater and mix it with an ant. Exercises like this are really fun, and helps you train your creative muscles.
>>2509322
Looking at insects/bugs/microscopic animals for reference may help.
>>2510195
she sounds and, at the risk of being shallow, looks fucking crazy then. Why would you be such a cuck?
>>2510183
I disagree, sure lots of concepts has been toyed with, but creativity, even in a specific category as limited as monsters, is so diverse that even when considering a similar list of traits, the sheer vastness of possibilities that arise when you consider all the difference in ways and proportions of blending them would indicate that it is quite rare for two concepts expressed, even when based on the same idea, to be done before, or completely similar.
