Old one at 300
Because we should not have to make new threads or post in draw threads with our fundamental exercises.
Feel free to post even the smallest exercise you have done to show you are still trying, do not give up, make your mom proud.
AVOID asking unrelated questions, There is a question thread for that.
Visit the usual "Art book Thread" to find your desired books.
Do not forget to PLEASE RESIZE and crop your images before uploading them. 1kpx is fine.
Before asking "what should I read/view/study/learn," Read the fucking sticky, it's there for a reason: >>1579290
→ →
There's a new sticky in town! You can see it at https://www.reddit.com/comments/46sb9k/
>Thread study: Try to draw/paint the opening or any other following images.
Feel free to post your original works as well if you're trash.
TRY TO BE MORE ACTIVE AND GIVE PEOPLE SOME FEEDBACK - many studies are left unreplied, which is a bit sad and can be quite demotivating for the people that try their best to improve, but are left directionless.
Old thread: >>2478492
hello please help
i am currently doing the draw a box lesson 1 and am stuck on this part of the Box/Perspective section
i just can't figure any of this out, how do i know where the vanishing points are? where are these 90 degree angles he is talking about? do i just guess when drawing the face of the rotated box? i feel like i'm just copying what he's doing and not taking anything that is happening in because i don't understand it
pls help
>>2482992
here is the third one i was trying to make when i realized i was still doing it all wrong
Guys, I have to recommend the Dynamic Sketching course with Peter Han to everyone. The exercises are boring as shit but if you go through with it, you will see extreme amounts of improvement. I did the exercises as a warmup every day before drawing. Just stick with it, push through the tough stuff, it's worth it. After 3 weeks, my drawing improved more than in the 3 months before that.
Even all the vilppu stuff sort of "clicked" with me today in life drawing class and it felt really intuitive all of a sudden. Even my teacher said she was surprised how much I improved in the short period of time and I think it's thanks to all these exercises because that's the only thing I changed about my drawing practice.
>>2482955
So I got told to learn gesture drawing. I have been watching videos and tried doing gesture drawings but they all come out looking terrible. I did a very little bit of study on anatomy. I feel like when I am doing the gesture drawings that I am obviously not drawing the body correctly. Do I need to learn anatomy and perspective before gesture drawing?
Is Fun with a Pencil a good starting point?
It seems mostly designed for charicatures.
How am I supposed to draw sexy naked ladies with that?
>>2483025
Gesture drawings aren't really about 100% anatomical accuracy, but having a better grasp of anatomy will help you figure out your "shorthand" version of anatomy for gesture drawing. Gestures are basically to help you capture the main idea of a pose as quickly as possible, so you can then segway into the construction and stuff. In my opinion, studying construction and anatomy a little more first would probably help you.
>>2483028
Eh, it can be pretty dull and dry especially since it's so old, but it's supposed to teach you the basic ideas of constructing 3D forms and planes and stuff that you can apply everywhere. If you're an ABSOLUTE beginner, you may want to look for another book if it's not making sense to you yet.
>>2483003
any examples of your work before and after?
>>2483037
Oh no, it absolutely makes sense. I used to draw quite a bit when I was younger. I haven't drawn regularly for about 10 years though.
I'll continue on with the book.
>>2483025
>>2483025
Same posted.
Basically someone told me that gesture drawing is very important and I should learn that first. Yet I am now trying to draw the human body with "flow" as Proko calls it without knowing much about drawing the actual body. So I ended up improperly drawing the gesture. Or maybe I just suck at drawing period. I have been going at it for a little less than a month now.
>>2483034
Pic related are my shitty gestures.
Absolute beginner that's looking for a good training regimen for digital art. Is "You can draw in 30 days" a good starting point ? Anybody tried the book and can give some feedback on his experience with it ?
I really need something very focused to work on, randomly doodling just doesn't seem to get me anywhere.
>>2482995
i think you have some more practice and study to do before doing this
How exactly am I supposed to distribute line weight? What part of a drawing is supposed to be drawn heavier than others?
>>2483062
Don't just do random doodling. Draw from life until you get good at it, and draw through on more drawings than you don't. Start with Keys to Drawing. You will know when you have begun to understand drawing from life. Then books like Loomis will be of much greater use to you than they are now.
How do I recreate my style?
My former life of doodling without basic knowledge has tainted my current style, and while I can sketch out realistic drawings well I can't remake my own personal style into something less shit.
>>2483076
I'm shit at drawing, but here is some excersise
Doing 15 min drawings to work on constructing from imagination
btw, is new masters academy good? I saw that Steve Huston is in it, which seems cool.
>>2483052
Gesture is not a great way to start learning how to draw. Some basic construction and line exercises (Dynamic sketching/Draw a box) coupled with a little anatomy such as proportions and bony landmarks will do you good. After that you can learn basic perspective and then get into figure drawing.
>>2483076
>>2483322
thanks!
Anyone else having trouble with "drawing with shadows?"
Every time I get critique I get called out for symbol drawing. I'm trying not to but it's hard to distinguish what should be a stroke on the paper as opposed to "using the light and form to imply a shape."
Am I not supposed to trace the outline of an eye? It's what I see (and not what i think),
>>2482967
ugh been so long since i last drew something
Hey /beg/, any help with this wip before I final render
>>2483003
isn't that course $700 jewgolds
I refuse to believe that anyone here is a beginner.
>>2483348
correction, it's what you THINK you see
train your eye
>>2483428
welcome to the vacuum. where artists who are good but listen to advice are stuck here. everyone one else who is ignorant and ignores advice posts in the draw thread and gets told to come here.
>>2483399
it looks really flat. I would give you some pointers but I struggle from the same issue myself. If you find something that helps please post it
>>2483428
I'm drawing using a wacom tablet on Illustrator because I want a vectored bit of work but I'm struggling to develop an shading style, where should I start?
>>2483449
start by using a mouse with Illustrator
>>2483450
so just stick with tablet for photoshop but in illustrator use pen tool? I originally used pen tool but used the tablet once and felt comfortable with it
>>2483417
The video where Peter Han explains the exercises that anon is probably talking about is free on youtube.
They are pretty much the same as the first two exercises of drawabox.
>>2483428
Have you looked through this thread? It's all shit.
>>2483447
Thanks man, I tried adding more variation of things different distances, I think the real issue is the contrast. I need to lower the contrast alot for the far wall. and that should do something good. best of luck on your work!
Quick question. Is grid drawing where you grid your reference and then your picture bad. It feels like cheating. Also, I heard watching timelapes of people drawing helps you see what you do wrong. Who's timelapes should I watch
>>2483472
update before bed. Hoping that I helped the depth issue. Any other help is still deeply appreciated
>>2482995
Honestly thats the hardest exercise in that part, just do like you would in the previous exercise but the vanishing point is dead in the middle of the first box and you are rotating the box around that.
From the study thread.
>>2483632
I wish I had a friend who critiqued my shit like you do
>>2483638
I can be your friend if you like. We're all friends here.
>>2483640
Are you gonna teach me how to crosshatch?
>>2483644
I will teach you many things. Crosshatching included.
anon weens from symbol drawing ep 2
crits? gets frustrating at times
Its hard to get rid of the flatness while only drawing lines.
>>2483446
Does this apply to lineart too?
Am I retarded for just asking this
>>2483697
line weight familia
trying out to draw with pencil and a stencil, crit?
>>2483348
If I got you right, I agree there is a kind of dissonance with what we beginners are told to do.
On the one hand, we're told to copy the lines and not think about what is actually there, on the other hand, we're told to NOT copy but draw the shapes that the object contains.
I think the solution is to copy the lines, but also understand the lines as shapes and lighting interacting. Eventually I guess the ideal is to re-construct and not copy, like vilppu teaches. At least that is my goal.
Hopefully I'm in the right thread.
Got any tips for water colors? Haven't used it since childhood, and I think I'd like to start coloring my drawings. General advice, and maybe a quick guide of sorts would be most helpful. God bless.
>>2483683
The angle is a little off and your line work is pretty poor. Make sure to be more confident next time. Also, make sure your proportions are better in the future. More loomis.
Keep it up anon you're getting there.
>>2483715
Crop your image. Also, hair is too large and the eyes are too far down. If you aren't drawing a full front view of the head to start with then do so. Believe me, it's a lot easier and you learn more. Just keep it simple next time too, when starting out, don't focus on shading but rather on placement. Lighting and that will come later.
Keep on keeping on Anon, your adventure is only beginning and there is lots more fun stuff to come..
How am I doing IC? I was really happy with this image. I felt as if it was the first time I managed to integrate loomis without starting to symbol draw. What would you guys recommend I work on? Thanks for your critique!
im a newfag, what's a loomis?
>>2483735
S T I C K Y
T
I
C
K
Y
>>2483735
a type of owl.
>>2483732
The contours are very distinguished. More than they have to, but you could probably tell. The shades of shadows aren't great, but at the right place.
The essence of art, however, is to capture something essential and beautiful. You've fully, completely accomplished that. The posture and face is spot on. I wish I would ever feel that content and in harmony.
>>2483735
It's a meme about a bank
It's implying artists can't make any money. Don't fall for the meme, we make mad cash
>>2483766
:D :D :D thank you very much! I'll take your advice to heart, next time I post my shadows will be lookin fine I promise. As for your praise, you've made my night and inspired me to create more and more. Thank you for your kind words and I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors!
draw this
going through faces again because they've been looking like ass
going to do some different angles next
>>2483834
last revision
>>2483607
I kind of feel like its difficult to notice the mermaids. I am assuming they are the focus point of the painting but to me they seem to blend in too much with the background
>>2483844
adleast look at the reference
>>2483844
Eyes should be a bit further apart and more almond shaped. Her eyes stretch out more than they are big
Her chin should be less sharp. She has a very feminine face which means that the shape of her face is much more smooth than you depict
The bulb of her nose and nostrils should be a bit wider. She has some weight on it if that makes sense
Mouth should be wider and her lower lips should be a bit bigger. She went from having really nice full lips and a big mouth to a small mouth and less plump lips in your drawing
Other than that though I think you're on the right track anon
>>2482955
Any more tutorials or step by steps like this?
Are extreme noobs allowed in here? I wanted to first begin drawing on my own before reading the sticky to see how good my grasp is of some basic concepts
I tried my hand at what I think loomis is about without going through his books. Lots of mistakes I'm sure but again I just wanted to see what I can do without reading the material before I get started on the nitty gritty
Bottom right is a small caricature I made after using loomis then erasing the lines
Top right is forcing myself to stop the chicken scratch I do so I can be more neat
Gave the faces basic eyes and mouth so I can have more of an idea if my loomis lines are doing what my mind thinks they should be doing
I had fun with this despite it taking around 20 minutes to complete
I gave up on art a long time ago but I always find myself coming back to it. Drawing releases a lot of my anxiety and keeps my mind calm throughout the whole process. It's a giant stress reliever
Sorry for the rant. I'm hoping that by continuously drawing I can improve to a degree worthy of any compliments received
>>2483948
BTW I do all this using my phone (a note 4 if you're wondering) with an application called artflow. I am still in the process of buying a tablet
>>2483953
My attempt at a bunny using a reference picture almost a year ago
>>2483948
>>2483953
In case you aren't a troll:
1. Forget about digital
2. Take paper and preferably pen
3. Drawabox.com -> Learn -> Lesson 1: Lines, Ellipses and Boxes
4. Grind drawing lines and ellipses daily for next week at least
5. That's not how you draw a head
6. You aren't drawing caricatures
7. It's not even similar to a cat, it's a turd with blue, pink and snow mixed with it.
8. That's how you draw a head:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EPNYWeEf1U
9. Remember: no chicken scratching
10. You suck
11. Not even proper dicks but some sad floppy ones
12. You need Loomis
13. Not this Loomis, "Fun with Pencil" is garbage
14. "Keys to Drawing" by Dodson is what you get instead
15. "Drawing the Head and Hands" is your starting Loomis book
16. Jesus Christ you are incredible faggot
17. NO DIGITAL
18. Seriously, buying tablet will be a waste and you don't want to be massive fucking faggot like half of /ic/ who draw "stylized" porn of animu waifus without core basics.
Stick to paper and pen for learning lines and how to NOT chicken scratch. Get pencil when you'll get to rendering. Which will be in months for you.
>>2482992
I'm nearly done with Perspective Made Easy but this part here's pretty confusing. Like, I don't understand how he determined the length of the shadow, before he said to just take the height of the edges and extend them, but here there's no indication of what he did.
How'd you guys handle this part?
>>2483978
First he draws lines to the corners of a box. Then he projects the light source on to the surface (see base of the candle) and then does what he did previously - passes lines through the base point and corners of the box.
Points where lines from the light source and projected base meet are the corners of your new box.
regards, other n00b
>>2483981
thanks man!
>>2483862
thanks, I amped up the contrast to make them pop more. It's reaching around the area where I feel like I've spent too much time time on this and made a mountain out of a molehill. I'm letting it go. thanks for your help /beg/
>>2483997
I like it, I'm a total beginner, but I like the composition. I don't know if lines I drew are correct, but maybe shifting right mermaid torso and tail to be in line with those rock formations could be a good idea. Also I guess fixing a bit perspective from that circle basin so the basis of rock formation would go out from it like rays.
...it's just me though and I don't know what I'm talking about.
>>2484009
To add to this - I did it because I feel there's an issue of how the eyes of the viewer go around the picture. Left mermaid torso is ok, an eye naturally goes around the main line of the body and straight into the moon which is central part of the composition and to which rock formations more or less point.
What I find a bit lacking though is this right side of the drawing between base of rock formations and water basin. It's a blank spot and it feels odd there's nothing there. There should be at least some chipped rock that is lighted and that points towards the mermaids.
But again - it's all IMO and I'm new as fuck.
>>2483777
>trips
Your wish is my command.
>>2483969
Thanks for the advice I guess. Have to admit your post made me laugh. I know I'm really bad which is why I called myself an extreme noob
I'll think of you fellow anon when I start to git gud
>>2484049
Good luck. Continue to make fun stuff in between your studies though. Doing studies only might be grueling, you want to have some fun too even if it will suck a bit (or a lot). Drawing stuff from life (or good reference) is always good, I saw you did bunny, but if you'll try drawing something on your desk or your boots with shoelaces (see again: "Keys to Drawing" by Dodsos) you will have fun and you'll improve because you will try to draw what you see and your eye will improve.
Don't worry that I was harsh. Also assume that you have talent and be done with it. Dunning Kruger is real, but it's better to be overenthusiastic than with crippling self-doubt. You will see it said everywhere (painter Schmid among others)
>>2483997
>>2484009
thank you for your help. You bring up solid points that I wouldn't have thought about. I'll keep this in mind on my next work, but as for now I've posted this and laid it to rest. And please remember, your input is valuable no matter how new or old you are. Were all studying the same things, so seeing something I missed out on and putting to practice what you know about the topic helps me, and you by solidifying facts you know. Thank you again
>>2482955
I don't understand these threads.
They don't really help beginners because people that know how to draw simply don't lurk here.
>>2484089
I mean the other day I posted a drawing I was having trouble with constructing in a draw thread and some one immediately told me that I wasn't constructing in perspective and they solved everything that was troubling me.
These threads really shouldn't exist.
It feels like the blind helping the blind.
>>2484074
I don't really believe in talent. Some people learn faster than others and that's all there is to it
I'm gonna try to draw my pooch so I can procrastinate from actually studying for my exams
what you guys think about my theme plans :)))
>open for feedback about who it´s most profitable to pander to in 2016
i genuinely accept that cancer is where the people are and if you wanna get far you pander to biggest audiences no matter how bad they are. so is the list okay or would you change anything?
>inb4 flame from patricians :^)
we social now cant have secrets
>>2482974
Tried this. Hands are impossible.
>>2484089 #
I don't really understand what you mean. Are you trying to say that there's no need to 2 separate threads because in draw thread you can get good critique and here not really?
Post than in draw thread if your skill is good enough and people critique you. If you are told to go here though don't hesitate to ask, we'll show you basics of the basics
>>2484120
Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying.
Once you reach a certain point this thread becomes worthless.
>>2483997
The person who drew this should probably be posting in a draw thread and asking for help there instead of here
>>2483844
I think you should be paying attention to the construction of the face instead of simply training your eye through photographs. You should be de-constructing objects from life instead of drawing faces off of a computer. It's better for training your eye than this, and when you learn how to de-construct from life you can easily construct from imagination.
>>2484136
You can always lurk here and correct others, it will be beneficial for you too and you can get some good ideas nevertheless from some references or drawings.
>>2484136
thank you for the compliment, but I've been told multiple times to come back here. I guess I'm in a kind of limbo between the two, or there just something about my work that pisses draw thread off. I'm fine here though, I don't think I get less critique really, I just think people might be scared from speaking up because they think that I'm better than them, even if its true or not. And that's messed up because I believe that all critique can help, no matter who is saying it
>>2484109
start with construction not blind contour drawing and keep practicing, you'll get there, brah
>>2484109
It comes easy to some, but most people have a hard time with hands.
It's a pretty complex structure.
It's worthwhile getting good at them though because they are really expressive and can add a whole lot to your work.
I have a hard time with hands too, but you just have to grind it out.
Little by little you'll pick up on things and your hands will get better, I usually avoid reference as much as possible unless I'm doing studies (it forces you to think about what you're drawing, I tend to commit things to memory faster this way) , but hands are the one thing I allow myself to have a cheat sheet.
I find them hard to understand analytically , it's more of an intuition sort of thing.
I am getting better , I can draw an okay-ish hand from memory now.
Over a decades worth of drawing them half-assed or avoiding them all together has made it hard to break the habit though.
I made a thread about my work and found out that I should have posted it here.
With that being said, I have been practicing for quite a time throughout my life. I recently acquired criticism regarding my facial proportions and I would like to see if there are other issues that I need to address.
I will post the original drawing first and follow it with the facially adjusted second.
>>2484192
Wrong photo (in case you are wondering, that is the result of a crappy morning and apartment leaks). :[
**1st photo.
**Adjusted 2nd photo
>>2484089
It's less of getting a master's critique and having your art seen in a different light that makes you realize what's openly wrong with it that you can't see because you've been sketching whatever for like 40 minutes.
>>2484233
u better fucking draw her nosefag
I'm reading the book "keys to drawing" and I don't feel like I'm learning properly. Do I need to be taking notes like it's any other subject or just do the exercises?
>>2483348
>implying
C/c ? the body is kinda weird tho
>>2484285
it's beyond fivehead at this point
>>2484285
Rocky dennis is that you
>>2484268
Do the exercises, write notes on them to yourself, redo them, move on when tired.
Eventually you will have to develop your process. Say that you do "Keys" or grinding basics every day without fixed hours + add to this life drawings and making still lives as your main work.
You know, working for a long time on some composition with rendering and everything while doing fundamentals on the side and incorporating it into your paintings.
It's good to also set yourself long term goals that will show you results, like "I want to stop chicken scratching and improve my line quality".
>>2484293
Would it be a good idea to redo drawings after a few months to get an idea of how much you have actually improved?
Let's say at the beginning of reading the book, I drew a cat using a reference picture. Then I go through the exercises in the book until I reach the end
Once that is done, I draw the cat again using the same reference picture and when that is complete just do a side by side comparison of the first and second drawings
Post it on /ic/ so you guys can tell me what else is missing from what I've learned and that should be improved on before I move to better things
Not the original anon that posted btw but I'm also reading through the same book he is
>>2483119
focus on the fundamentals your style will develop along the way whenever you have to make a choice
>>2484285
It's like a five head with the proportions of a child's body.
>>2482961
Shit
I'm restarting this because another anon gave me wonderful advice, but I just wanted to post this here to get more advice on what to do better next time.
Where did I fuck up my measurements?
>>2484382
ref?
>>2484377
The overall head shape is good, but the features are off. The eyes are too big, one ear seems to be higher than the other and you overdid the eyebrows. Also, you would benefit from dropping the outline of the mouth, if you look a the reference you can see that the edges of the lower lip are mostly soft, they blend with the skin (except maybe in the lower part)
I feel like I'm stuck in a cycle of not improving. I've been drawing for 3 years, and I'm still god fucking awful.
I practice, and then I fail, and then I know I failed but I don't know why I failed or how to not fail next time.
Practicing isn't doing anything, all I'm doing is continuously repeating the same mistakes infinitely at the same skill level. I've been trying to learn to draw people for 3 years, and I still can't draw a face.
Whenever I seek help I'm just hit with a brick wall of "more practice" when it isn't helping, I need more concrete and directional advice.
Hows this for a first portrait? I know the nose is a bit fucked
Do you guys like...have a level BELOW Loomis I could go to? I'm trying to do the blook ball exercise and failing because I don't know how to find/figure out where the axes are meant to lie. They aren't describing the form of the sphere at all.
>>2484459
You're not putting the tick marks in the right place. Proportions man, proportions.
In order to do that you'll have to literally memorise fraction and distance of the "standard head". This is no joke, it's the hardest part and may take you weeks if you don't approach it the right way. As you've experienced first hand, doing the same shit over and over again won't help until you realise where you went wrong.
Also, your features look horrible, you can practice them separately until you're more confident to put them in the constructed head. This is easier to learn and can be grinded.
Still, take my archives in a grain of salt since I'm a fellow beginner. Though I've begun to notice gains when I stopped grinding the same shit like you did.
so tell me ic: how much did i fuck up on this pic?
>>2484476
Another victim of the Loomis is for beginner meme. You'll need to attain a certain level already before starting Loomis.
Go with perspective made easy by norling then grind exercises of How to Draw. Beware, they're freaking hard.
>>2484459
Don't know how fast you go about making these, but maybe you should slow down. People don't learn dance moves at full speed. It's a slow step by step process.
Take your time observing, measuring and thinking.
Might take you 8 hours copying a loomis head, but eventually it will go down to a few minutes.
>>2484466
Poor rendering, learn to block in forms and grind features. It'll also help you to get rid of chicken scratches. Watch proko.
>>2484268
Beware of contour drawings! That is not recommended when you will start to construct for imagination. Do a few exercises is fun, but I do not recommend Dodson's ~going free ~ advice. It will hamper your habit of getting more precise. For pure beginners accuracy is more important than ~free draw style ~.
>>2484479
Should I draw from life? Or should I study anatomy more directly from say a book and then apply what I learn there in a more analytical and diagram like drawing?
I've read both Loomis and DotRSotB, and from what I've gathered Loomis teaches you in a more fundamental way, teaching concepts like constructive form and shape, while the latter is more about the ability to translate what you see to paper 1 to 1 by eliminating preconceptions about what you see.
I am sort of conflicted, since I've been told over and over that in order to improve I have to draw from life, but also that drawing from life is a trap because you'll only be able to "copy" what you see rather than actually draw so I'm a little confused about what to do.
I'd also like to piggy back on what >>2484476
said, I've read through Loomis and understand it on a conceptual level, but in practice am literally unable to manipulate and see 3 dimensional forms in my mind's eye or put them to paper.
I guess what I'm asking for is, do you guys have like the absolute raw basics full of piece by piece exercises for retards? Something extremely goal oriented and technical that can explain things less abstractly?
>>2484480
work on line confidence and combining form- not 2d interpretations thereof. You're doing okay by 'stacking' layers of 2d shapes for a 3d cartoon look, but you're probably already feeling the limits of this approach. Truly understanding form is a steep hill but it's worth it.
>>2484466
It's fine. I mean, it's really awfully shitty, but that's okay. Do one more like that then start grinding on fundamentals (controlling value scales, drawing and building forms, doing so in perspective) and 30-40 minute life-drawings.
>>2484459
Practice drawing from life. Look up the sight-size method, do that. Form and construction are ultimate goals, but sight-size will teach you to observe and re-create the complex forms that are frequently present in life. Practice value scales EVERY DAY. I know that seems like a waste, but the ability to accurately observe and then recreate value is like 40% of the battle.
>>2484382
>Where did I fuck up my measurements?
all over, but to minor amounts. I can't tell you exactly without ref. Your rendering is good enough at this point, spend more time controlling value composition/organization. A pattern of hierarchical alternation between light and dark will help you read more. Also, right now your darkest dark is the pupils and the nostrils at 9 or 10, then the next darkest is a 6 or 7. Value scales, buddy.
>>2484377
draw at least a little bigger. I'm guessing this is no more than 5 inches tall. Pencil sucks, switch to charcoal so you can cover a lot of area without getting an RSI.
>>2484285
Awful in an interesting way, keep pushing because you're *almost* decent. It's like right below the 'acceptable' line. Sounds like I'm being a dick, but it's actually a compliment. You're ahead of lots of people here.
>>2484500
What do you mean, observe and then recreate value? Do you mean, for instance, looking at a shade of grey and accurately recreating the same shade of grey?
>>2484502
not him and also a fucking scrub at this but im 99% sure value is light vs shadows
>>2484505
I was under the impression value was a term referring to the brightness of something, white was high value, black was low value and a value scale was a black to white gradient.
>>2484382
You should really close his mouth. He looks like he's biting his lip and giving a come hither look, but with brain damage at the same time.
>>2484506
well sorta. if something has a lot of light on it itll be brighter while a deep shadow will go towards black
>>2484492
forget DotRSotBBQ. It's only for people who have never lifted a pencil before. The knowledge in there is distilled from the sight-size method. Buy this book and complete 2-3 drawings like this, spend about 20-40 hours on each.
http://www.amazon.com/Cast-Drawing-Using-Sight-Size-Approach/dp/0980045401/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1460515938&sr=8-1&keywords=sight+size
Invariably someone here will say b-b-b-but sight size is flawed, muh comparative/constructive method.
YES I KNOW. Sight-size is totally flawed for obvious reasons. However, done correctly, it is unequivocally the best exercise for breaking down symbol drawing. It's almost tearfully tedious when done correctly, so put your favorite albums on and settle. the. fuck. in. If you put in the hours (2-3 a day) you absolutely will improve, then you can move on to comparative or constructive (the latter of which you're already trying and obviously failing at).
Also, you don't need a super nice cast, just go get a garden gnome for $20 and spraypaint it matte white, or if you don't even have an easel, just get a barge plate printed 12x17 and tape it to your wall.
>>2484492
OK, what I am going to tell you is conflicting from what others are going to say. But, personally I gave up on life drawings and I've improved from copying photos. I didn't went any where doing them and I've learnt more from books and videos. I think that life drawing has its advantages since it is more fun. More information. But will it be more advantageous for the average beginner than drawing from photos?
The point of life drawing (I think) is the access to more life like references, the unfiltered experience. And doing sight size. But accessing to real life models is not an option for everyone and hence it is why we draw from references. Hence why Bargue's drawing course was made to solve that problem: making sight size available to everyone. Life drawing isn't a necessity, but could be a nice addition.
What is the use to only learn how to copy but without knowing how to construct? I've seen many posts here about a lot of artists knowing how to copy but not how to construct. Even if you were to know how to copy perfectly it still wouldn't make you prolific at constructing a head out of thin air.
I did a lot of copy of casts and still didn't help for imagination because back then I didn't read Loomis. After I memorised every thing about it, drawing from imagination became easier.
>>2484513
Right, value is akin to "brightness", and you can have multiple different hues with the same value. A high value red is closer to white and a low value red is a dark red closer to black.
But back to the original question, what sort of practice was being described? The ability to look at anything and faithfully recreate its value alone
>>2484516
So DotRSotB is mostly fluff and the sight-size is the most accurate and fundamental of its lessons. And the sight size method is literally copying what you see and translating it to paper, yes? Meant to destroy symbol drawing, the act of drawing the preconceptions of things rather than them as they are. People say it's flawed because simply copying isn't helping you if you want to draw from scratch/the imagination since you can only draw l1 to 1 translations of what's in front of you, am I understanding this right?
I'll have to ask my friend who owns the comic book store if he has a copy.
>>2484502
yes, that exactly. Then you just put it in the right place.
>>2484505
Value is how much light is reflected (or if digital, emitted) off the image. More simply, white vs black (thought if you're using color that's inaccurate). 3d forms are communicated by "light and shadow". Those natural phenomena can be imitated by correctly placing values. You do not draw shadows, you draw value to fool the brain into interpreting the amount of light reflected by your image onto the retina is from 3d form communicated by light/shadow, not a flat image.
As far as 'high' value being white or black, there's no correct answer, I've literally heard different successful artists switch whether 0 means white or black referring to different pieces. This is because it doesn't matter, it's just an arbitrary number so you can measure the rest of the image against that value. nawwham'sayin?
>>2484507
just keep going. Seriously just keep going. Draw from life frequently (every day if you can) and I implore you to check out the sight size method- even if you never do it, it will help you understand how to approach drawing from life properly, which will lead to you being able to draw what you want when you want. It's not so much about the walking back and forth, but the building a plumb line and measuring horizontal and vertical distances, keeping your point of observation constant, etc.
Do you draw by moving your arm, your wrist, or your fingers?
I'm starting to wonder if I've been fucking up and holding pencils incorrectly my entire life. I noticed that I've been drawing most of my life by planting my wrist on the table and moving the pencil around with mostly my fingers (kind of like how you move your fingers when you use chopsticks) and I've never moved my arm when I draw.
I've been trying to move my arm more lately to see if that gives me more control and straighter lines, but my wrist is planted on the paper so hard that sometimes the paper will just move along with my hole arm and fuck everything up,
I tried to google it and this is the first picture I found that looks like the way that I hold my pencil, so that's probably not a good sign.
>>2484518
>Life drawing isn't a necessity
If you want to draw animu, sure you could get away with never drawing from life. If you want to go past that at all, forget photos. You will get better drawings from photos at first, sure, but you're wasting time. Please trust me, I've been there and done that.
>
What is the use to only learn how to copy but without knowing how to construct? I've seen many posts here about a lot of artists knowing how to copy but not how to construct. Even if you were to know how to copy perfectly it still wouldn't make you prolific at constructing a head out of thin air.
How do you learn to construct? I would argue: by copying diagrams from artists who know how until you understand how the lines and shapes function together to create the illusion of form. That illusion only really works if you get proportions correct though. How do you correctly copy the proportions? By measuring. This is what sight-size will teach you. Then you move on to construction. I agree that construction is super important and more effective than copying, but all the artists who are great at construction have been through the crucible of tons of life drawing involving measurement. Don't have access to models? Try harder: http://www.artmodelbook.com/figure-drawing-directory.htm
Order of importance:
1. Proportion and measurement
2. Values
3. Form (construction)
Naturally you can't learn 100% of #1 then 100% of 2 and so on, you gotta do 30% of 1, move on then go back once you hit a wall. but keep that order in mind, so you know what to do whenever you hit a plateau.
I spent three years copying photos, and although it often came out good, I often made some bullshit mistake early on. Then I quit and committed to drawing from life and bridgman a fuckton. like 12 hours a week or more for six months, then at least 3 hours a week, for the last two years.
>>2484527
wrist only for stuff under 2sq inches. It's a super-duper-bitch habit to break out of, I know. Just get a big 'ol thing of 19x24 newsprint and some charcoal and do your drawings on that from your shoulder. You'll get it eventually and be really glad you did.
Time for me to sleep, hopefully I helped someone
>>2484523
oh almost missed this one.
>And the sight size method is literally copying what you see and translating it to paper, yes? Meant to destroy symbol drawing, the act of drawing the preconceptions of things rather than them as they are.
Yes.
People say it's flawed because simply copying isn't helping you if you want to draw from scratch/the imagination since you can only draw l1 to 1 translations of what's in front of you, am I understanding this right?
That's part of it. It also requires a very specific setup and the front tip of your subject and working surface to be aligned at eye level in the same plane, which is super unrealistic in almost every "real-life" opportunity you'll have to draw. People say it's great for copying stationary still-life scenes and nothing else- which is mostly true. HOWEVER, it arms you with a specific process to approach measuring drawings, and this you can do with a sketchpad in your lap for even short, 20-40 minute drawings. MORE IMPORTANTLY, it builds your faculty for observation and measurement, which, although they happen in the brain, basically operate like muscle memory.
Here's an analogy: Telling someone that they should begin by studying construction and ignoring measurement-intensive life drawing (sight size) is like telling someone who's never picked up a guitar that they can play like Jimi if they just study music theory. Forget practicing scales or getting chord switching down (drawing sight size). They'll argue that the man who only practices scales and chord switches will only produce the same bland twelve notes up and down really fast but will never make music if he doesn't understand theory. But how the fuck is he gonna play in the first place if he doesn't have any muscle memory? At some point, yeah he needs the theory, but first he's gotta learn chord progressions, scales, and rhythm: the backbone of any good song.
I'm nearing the end of Perspective made easy, and have followed along well but I still don't know how to make a perfectly squared box with two VPs.
Was this somewhere in the book I just didn't notice?
do i have the spark????
im a beginner (even though i've been doodling cartoony shiz for 5+ yrs) also critique <---
more of my cartoonies for u to spit crap on so i can improve
Ima just keep drawing my left hand till i understand form. Its the only thing that i care to draw these days
ok last one
one more to decide lmao
OK
this is the super last one
>>2484547
A lot of that perspective looks wonky. What's immediately noticeable is that the man in centre doesn't conform to the rest of te picture and sticks out like a sore thumb.
>>2484550
>tch...nothing personnel, kid....
>>2484551
Please be aware of the image limit.
How do I perspective?
>>2484545
I like it tbqh
>>2484582
Read Perspective Made Easy, and then the chapter on Perspective in How to Draw by Robertson. It really helped me.
What's a good <$100 drawing tablet? I'm looking at Wacom right now. Huion is pretty good too but I'm afraid of compatibility issues.
>>2484591
Don't cheap out on a tablet $100> my ass. Any tablet you buy can be sold if necessary for a good chunk of what it's worth. Don't put yourself off drawing forever because you buy a shit tablet that makes drawing miserable.
>>2484591
I meant perspective regarding the figure.
>>2484548
breaking things down into basic shapes is a good way to find form. I wouldn't start with hands though
>>2484598
Well its the really the same thing. Perspective is just a matter of measurement. But I guess you might want to look Figure Drawing For All Its Worth by Loomis, alot of it is dedicated to just that
>>2484594
That's all well and good, but I'm not aiming to be a pro. I only want the tablet because the only time I can draw is at night, after work, and I like to keep the lights off (hence I can't do traditional). I really can't afford dropping more than $100 bucks.
And if anything, I doubt I'll quit drawing just because the tablet sucks
>>2484605
Then show me an example of you applying the things in the book to figure drawing?
>Figure Drawing For All Its Worth by Loomis
I can see the sticky, I'm not blind. I just feel like loomis isn't doing enough for me.
>>2484608
Well the way you'd apply it is this:
Put the figure in a box, put the box in perspective (in the case of your drawing it'd be 3-point perspective, looking up. Again Robertson's book really does a good job explaining this and PME, even moreso). Then its a matter of knowing the standard anatomical proportions of the body (Loomis Figure Drawing will teach you that), and dividing the box accordingly (e.g you can use the technique of diagonals to divide the box into 8 equal parts, corresponding to the standard "8 heads").
Then its just a matter of "sculpting" the box to the figure making sure all the proportions are correct.
>Loomis isn't doing enough for me
Honestly I find this a little hard to believe, since Loomis does two things really well: figures and perspective. Hell his whole methodology is based on using perspective. I'd still recommend reading Perspective Made Easy. Try drawing a checkerboard in 2-point perspective, if you have trouble you should give it a read.
Also, no need to be rude/hostile, I'm just trying to help. Good luck!
>>2484236
I mean, this is so low quality... I'll do it, may post it.
>>2484615
I said _show_. I get the feeling that the majority of people here don't really practice what they preach when they give advice. Plus what good are all these construction lines when you want to draw a dynamic pose?
>>2484594
>Don't put yourself off drawing forever because you buy a shit tablet
>tablet
If he can't draw using pencil and paper he's a lost cause already
>>2484618
A dynamic pose is nothing but a good composition and a line of action under the construction lines.
>>2484622
>still can't show his own drawings
>>2484623
I'm not even the same anon.
If you've come to 4chan in search of mentoring or whatever the joke's on you
>>2483428
heh
nice try, but i am a beginner.
i could post things, but it'd be terrible bad anime styled "deviant art" drawings of someone who has been trying to learn at the slowest rate possible for a decade.
i keep coming back to the start over and over after getting badly depressed that i haven't learned anything, but i feel like i never will. i try stuff, but everything is like "oh, do this, read X book, but don't do that really because its not REALLY for beginners."
i can't do gestures because i don't know anything, i don't even know how to construct a body even if i broke it down. i "do" know how, but i don't know how.
like everyone else, i know what i want my end game to be, but i feel like im never getting there and looking back on it all, i just hate my lack of progress.
>>2484573
Perhaps the most appropriate response ever.
what can i change to get more realistic skin next time, also is anatomy shit or wtf
>>2484677
Eyes up by 10px,
Nose up by 5px.
Flip it horizontal and you got the depth uneven.
>>2484688
lol it actually looks better. genious.
What's your preferred way of constructing hands from imagination ?
what should i practice when I'm bored and just wanna do some fundamentals?
Most of the time I just do gesture/figure drawing, but I feel like I could be doing other things for perspective but I don't know how to just grind out drills for things aside from figure drawing
>>2482961
uhh.. Any critics? Eyes are shit i know, any pointers would be much appreciated.
>>2484795
>>2484194
>>2484195
It's hard for me to comment on this because you tried stylization and are drawing from imagination. I don't know what you are trying to go for and you probably also don't.
See, in the first drawing face looked more "nubian" which might not be a bad thing. The other one is more generic and her nose is a lot more flat.
Plus of your drawings: ok lines with no chicken scratching and you show volume in parts. It's apparent that you tried construction here and there.
Drawbacks: You have a lot to learn still and you are trying stylization, especially where you don't feel comfortable - and that is anatomy of the rest of the body. Your hands are very flat and joints simply don't work. Similar thing with legs and waist.
About face - you are symbol drawing. You don't know how to draw eyes, that's why your stylization falls flat. Here, have Proko:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6-bCgRmcko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtrqSIhZR_Y
I would also suggest training gesture drawings - your figure has very static pose and it doesn't read well.
>>2484300
Yes, it's an excellent idea, a lot of people do that. In that way you'll also keep your progress in check, know where you improved and on what you should work more.
It's also good thing to write a date on those pieces you want to come back to, so you will have time frame. It's all very good approach and later it could help you make a collage of your progress after a year or 2.
>>2484795
work on devolping a strong form before details. this would help in giving you a sense of sculpted face and would make your value rendering easier. you do need to push your values.
also avoid chicken scratching. if you are working on a small a5 sketchbook i would understand but even then you could lessen it by working from the wrist.
>>2484795
Don't make such scratchy glasses, they just look tacked on. Should have gone with a cleaner edge because part of the picture is acknowledging thickness to everything, and the lack of thickness to the glasses make them flat.
Maybe you could do some value studies as well, the nose loses a lot of its form because you don't differentiate enough among the values you do use. Right now the values look a bit smeared and uniformed compared to the photo.
>>2484812
>work on devolping a strong form before details
I'm still working on that right now.
>also avoid chicken scratching
yes, i'm working on a small sketchbook. Maybe i'll pick something larger.
>>2484823
>Don't make such scratchy glasses, they just look tacked on
Yeah, it was pretty hard to make a cleaner circle on the glasses, but i will try, thanks.
>Maybe you could do some value studies as well
I will do that. I was just trying to push my limit, since i suck at shading and understanding value.
Thanks anons, your advices are very helpful.
>>2484802
>Drawing from imagination.
Sounds to me like imaginative drawing cannot actually be criticized aside from form ratios, which in turn makes criticism difficult.
>You do not know how to draw eyes... your style falls flat.
I forgot to mention that the sketch was not finished. :P Sorry.
>>2482992
Which exercise regimen is this? Do you have a link?
>>2484831
No problem, even though you said your eyes were "shit" it was great that you included some thickness from the lower eyelid and mostly contrasted the eyelid from the eyeball through shading rather than lines.
>>2484541
Alright. That makes perfect sense.
Is there a specific resource or book I should look into after Cast Drawing Using the Sight Size Method?
>>2484836
Thanks, i've seen so many artists do that, so i was trying to do the same.
picked a crappy reference but decided to try it out anyway
Going to do another one today (better reference)
as well as continuing practicing faces
>>2484600
The most fun drawing i have from life is my own hand. What else would you reccomend? Ive already done making basic shapes have badic form.
draw from life,anatomy diagram until i memorize human body
>>2484852
why you made her boobs smaller
also the hand pose is cringy unless you make it clear her fingers dont grow from the elbox with depth/dimension/colours
>>2484833
It all depends what you want to depict, but you yourself don't seem to have clear vision of the drawing seeing how dramatically her face changed.
Also whole drawing seems lazy. The way you draw extended arm shows that you don't really want to draw hand with fingers. You draw forms and basic construction for some parts, but for others (like again, torso) it seems like you just went "meeeh, don't want to do that shit" and draw whatever with big tits slapped on it to obscure your laziness.
I also don't understand what it is for you. Do you wish for it to become complete sketch? Do you treat it as a study of some kind? Because you know, everything seems half-assed like you didn't even want to draw it, but shared here nonetheless.
>>2484858
really didn't draw the hand (as I remember)
I think the head is a bit too big imo
also thank you for all for commenting/critiquing my last few studies including the one now and so on. Means a ton to me.
>>2482959
>>2484876
Lines and angles are wrong everywhere. Not drawing what you see.
I give up..
Careful not to take all advice!
>>2484899
The advice isn't really wrong, it's just poor execution.
I'm practicing drawing people. What type of pencils/pens should I be using?
Taking my first drawing class and just wanted to share the latest project I did. I've gotten about 3/4 of the way through DotRSotB but lost interest/became busy. Now that I'm really getting interested again I feel I need to pick a new starting point. I know there are threads for this but just wanted a quick opinion if Dodson's Keys to Drawing is worth a shot
>>2484934
Wow that file size is absurd I apologize
>>2484935
It is.
End of quick opinion.
my loomis looks like shit it's worth to keep going on?
>>2484939
you are getting there, keep going!
>>2484109
>>2484186
Anyone thinks this is an improvement? Tried using the red lines to show form.
>>2484549
Work on your line quality. The drawings you posted are cool and detailed but there's so much going on makes it hard to look at. Make what things are are closer to the viewer or darker more bold so that the drawings have some depth.
Why am i not comfident with drawing whole human body with imagination
When i draw face (yeah it's shit) not drawing body when i draw body not drawing head
>>2484952
It feels much better to me at least.
why does this look so fucking off
is it because i didn't add any details and cleaned it up or is something just fucked up?
>>2484999
you're not following the 3d form with your lines. the brow line curves around the sphere, your line is just straight. same thing with the center line, your line is curving to the left (our left) slightly, instead of going straight down the form.
remember, what is straight on the form is not necessarily actually straight.
you want to feel the form as you draw
>>2484999
Anon already pointed it out but this stood out
>>2484852
head is like twice as big as it should be, makes her look like a midget
>>2485008
tried a few more, every time i draw it curved it ends up looking like the face is looking slightly down. I'm trying to make it eye level but every time I do curve the front of the face it starts to look like it's looking slightly downwards
its difficult to gauge the angle of the line without actually drawing the horizon line
>>2484876
You need to learn how to think in 3D.
>>2484527
try using an easel if you can, it helps because you can't really plant your wrist on the paper the same way, so you use your arm more
>>2485013
But...she is...right?
>>2484999
>>2485014
ok im done for the night
thanks for taking a look at my shit anons
Is there a reason why the Draw-a-box guy (and Dynamic Sketching guy) force the use of felt-tip pens? They are very uncomfortable to use since you have to hold them at a 90 degree angle to get even flow. Why don't they just use ballpoint as Robertson recommends? Much easier to use with essentially the same benefits since you can't erase.
Am I missing something?
>>2485035
sounds like a conflicting argument
why don't you try out both and tell us how it goes
>>2485035
Peter Han said in his video that it will help to "force" your arm to get into the posture. The 90 angle thing is important to master. But once you've got the knack of it you don't have to do it anymore, it's just recommended for beginners.
>>2485035
I've never had to use felt tip pens at 90 degrees, dunno what the hell you're talking about.
>>2485113
Hm I was thinking about those thick cheap ones, I usually call the ones you're talking about fine liners. But they are technically both felt tip, right? They are pretty different as sketching tools though I guess.
>feelio when your shit starts resembling actual animu grills
>>2482992
Fuck, this doesn't look right
Anyone know how to draw snapping fingers?
I'm making a simple animation, maybe like 2 or 3 frames. But I can only get the first frame right. I have no idea how to draw the thumb during the snapping part
>>2485161
This is a rather difficult and meaningless exercise in my opinion. If you look at the chapter about rotations in Perspective Made Easy, you'll see that this sort of thing can be accomplished using ellipses.
>>2484860
>Everything seems half-assed.
If I did not want to draw it, then I would not have asked for criticism on it, dude. :/
>>2484860
>You don't seem to have a clear vision.
I have a vision; I changed the face primarily because a critic just like you from 8ch decided that my facial proportions were wrong.
Me being the humble individual that was open to change figured, "Okay; let us try out his suggestion" only to come here and have someone else bark at me for the change?
>>2485162
Can you see your fingers moving when they snap? Then don't animate it. Draw the first pose (~8 frames), the final pose (1-2 frames), and have the hand bounce back a TINY bit.
this sucks
>>2485164
Which chapter anon? I couldn't find it.
>>2485171
He's being harsh but there are a few hard truths in there. Good thing is that you will probably improve immensely if you do a few hundred figure/gesture drawings with some anatomy studies. I suggest you watch those Proko videos and practice more fundamentals. Try to spit out a ton of drawings of the human figure (including skull and hands), try not to spend a lot of time polishing a single drawing (at least if you're gonna post it on here, it hurts when /ic/ takes a huge steamy shit on your beloved drawings)
>>2485181
bullshit it looks fucking cool. please do a music video for some EDM song.
>>2485184
I saw this after I posted the exiting post:
>>2485185
I know that he does speak the truth about things related to the drawing; his assumptions about me are entirely wrong and unnecessarily personal and that I will not stand for.
As someone that does not go back on their word, I stand by my decision to take my practice offline.
>>2485190
This is 4chan, people will roast you if you're bad and an easy target. Just tell him to fuck off if it bothers you that much. If you're serious about getting better I suggest you go back on your word already unless you have a real life mentor but that's your call
sage
>>2485185
>I just realized that online criticism is a joke. :)
No, you are the joke.
>>2485193
if you´re serious about getting better you fucking listen when people say X & Y on improving thread
>>2485166
>>2485171
Stop making excuses.
>"Me being the humble individual that was open to change figured"
Good for you, do you want a prize for that or something? Any beginner that wants to git gud had better be humble and aware of their errors, else they fall into the dunning kruger effect. Don't flaunt you're feathers as if that's something to be proud of.
The face in the second picture is still not entirely in proportion; her eyes and brows are too close together and the face lacks it's "planes" There is a whole lot of problems stemming from lack of understanding of human anatomy.
You have to understand people viewing artwork, even if they aren't artists at all, have a fixed vision in their mind on what a human looks like; because humans are everywhere and you see them all the time. It's not conscious knowledge, but the you can tell if something is off or "inhumane" about a person, and that includes drawings of people. If your anatomy and proportions are skewed, the illusion of 3 dimension is broken. Doesn't matter how many things you try to bury it under, it will still be a glaring issue to the viewer.
>>2485197
Agreed there
i sux :|, even when using refernce body looks all mangled and shit
>>2482959
keepin on keepin on
is it better for the proportion ? despite that any c/c ?
>>2485204
Stop using color. Right now. Greyscale at most for the next 3 months. Spend a lot more time on just figures and gestures.
today I tried
>>2485238
Still really big head, but less code lyoko-like now. I don't like how you used black for your shading on her skin, like her tummy and legs. What about a warm dark blue?
>>2485079
>The 90 angle thing is important to master
Wrong.
The entire purpose for the 90 angle is so the pen last longer. That's it. Nothing more. It isn't some kind of special technique, he just wants you to save money since you're going to making A LOT of lines with that pen.
how should your hand be resting on the paper?
>>2485257
Sorry, forgot babies need their nicey nice lollipop when their fee fees get hurt :^)
>>2485252
Imo, never.
