A debate for the ages, /ic/:
> if you build it, people will come
> if you overprice your shit, people will think its quality
Yes or no?
Assuming you have skill, great aesthetics and a crazy amount of productivity? Yes.
>>2457722
> implying
There's people living comfy right now from amateur fnaf art. If you create furshit, the furries will pay.
>>2457717
> if you build it, people will come
I've always lived by this motto. Still, it's still good to market yourself.
There's no such thing as bad publicity.
>>2457729
So can we be more concise and instead say
>if you draw the furshit, the furries will come
>>2457717
Building it isn't enough.
Over-price it, if people like something they won't care about price.
Market-price it if it's being treated as a product for a company and etc.
>>2457738
>if you draw the furshit, the furries will come
In every sense of the word, yes.
Also overpricing is always a valid strategy, especially in art where there are no true comparable goods unless you're talking commissions. That's the one exception in my eyes, but even for commissions you can work on price.
>>2457738
Dude, yes. And if you draw the furshit rather well, they will run down your front door.
>if you overprice your shit, people will think its quality
The way I see it, all you need is one rich asshole not paying much attention to just assume your art is worth a lot more than it is. That's still betting on a lot, and probably works better if you're a hack who does abstract art where there isn't much of a yardstick.
For the most part if you're a shitty artist doing broken anatomy fan-art and go "commissions open, $200 for a portrait!" you're not gonna make a fucking cent.
>>2457784
Abstract art is overpriced because its only purpose is money laundering.
>>2457784
>there isn't much of a yardstick
Pretty true, all you really have to go on is craftsmanship. Whether or not the artist has a degree means little, anyone with internet access and some know-how can bullshit up an essay as to why their completely purple canvas is a meaningful and valid statement on the mistreatment of Syrian refugees.
>>2457717
>> if you overprice your shit, people will think its quality
>Yes or no?
This is actually a documented cognitive bias. People expect quality to be expensive and will even rate cheaper-than-expected items as likely of lesser quality.
>>2457717
If it's skilled work, presented by a well-known, reputable gallery, yes, to an extent: if you're new to showing, and have something hot, be it skill, style, aesthetics, personality. Now don't get me wrong; you've still gotta have years of experience in making quality work. The whole prodigy artist who suddenly finds commercial success thing doesn't actually happen. It's one or the other, but usually, like with skill-building, commercial success (and collector desirability) comes over time. A sales price record is carefully planned and documented so that it goes up over your career. It is a mistake to over-price your work when you're at the beginning or middle of your career. Say you're just out of school, and you decide to price all your paintings at $10k, because they're technically excellent. Great, but nobody knows you, so nobody's gonna take that chance collecting you. But, if you priced at $2k, a handful of people will buy your work. Now you've established a price. Keep developing, and in a year or two, you'll be able to sell at $3k. Massively overestimating the appeal of your work will force you to sit on those high-priced pieces for years while you work at your day job, or lower your price, which makes art collectors think you're a has-been, which hurts your sales for years. So as a starting point, find a realistic price by visiting galleries and comparing prices with resumés and quality of your work. Be realistic. When you find a gallerist to represent you, they will also give you a reality check if necessary. Remember, this game ain't art, it's art business.
>>2457869
And might I add, I'm speaking from experience. I remember my first show, I was pricing my pieces at 2k. I was pretty good. The gallerist talked me down a bit, and eventually the work started moving at $1500. Had I been a complete doofus, I might still have that work. Now I get $3-5k per. It just takes time, guys. All the while you're pushing yourself technically. I wish there was a magical fairy tale land where you suddenly start selling pieces for tens of thousands of dollars.
>>2457878
Honestly family, I'm quitting my job once I start making +1500 plus. How can I start shilling online?
> if you overprice your shit, people will think its quality
I can see this.
Most companies that sell protein do poorly due to how cheap they go for. Some companies would actually add $20 more from the original price and that'll actually boost sales while changing nothing about the product (same size, no cuts on the indigents, nothing).
It kind of silly how stupid some people are when it comes to fitness.
>if you overprice your shit, people will think its quality
Yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PiqC-vfYLw
>>2458174
Am I wrong if I just don't trust these people? I don't want to make a snarky statement. You gotta tell me if I'm wrong and why.
I mean illustrators like Jake Parker, Oatley or Silver who turned into youtube personalities and sell tutorials and courses. Maye I'm too cynical but are we sure they're not just doing all of this to build an audience?
Why would you make a channel that's mostly aimed at newbies who want to get into the industry (if your videos are mostly about motivation and work philosophy, you're talking to newbies) and tell these newbies that they need to keep the prices high and never work spec?
Isn't it just a little weird? It makes it look like "Look, I'm going to make so that your doodles will sell for a lot! Success is so close!"
There are so many mediocre artists who make a living off a brief collaboration with Disney and "tutorials" aimed at newbies. Look at Tom Bancroft. Whenever I look at these blogs I rarely see any real content... Maybe I'm way too cynical but did anyone actually experience what these guys are offering? Did that help you make money with your art?
>>2458206
A few examples I can think of are Silver himself (who never went to college but ended up working at a lot of major publishers), Cearley (who never did tutorials prior to making his "how to make it in the art industry video where he let this statement slip), Shane Glines who got a job working with John K. after precociously asking him where he should go to college and 4chan /ic/'s own Olly Lawson (teh meh)
Stephen Silver posts reminds me of those animation students who would post amazing work on youtube or twitter. When asked "what school did you go to?" they would always answer with something vague like "Haha! Yes, work hard ;)"
At first, I thought they just didn't know english or whatever, but once they get their foot into the industry, they flat out say how they never took animation school and would lie about it on their resumes.
Kind of funny how Hiring Services would look for a degree on your resume to show that you're "dedicated" when it's always the self taught people pulling out some of the best stuff out there. You'd think someone who is self taught and putting up amazing would be considered more dedicated. Nope...
>>2457717
Sure, but the backlash of drama once people can verify how much it really is worth can be dangerous. All your skill is worthless if your social standing is basically fucked and people think about finding a replacement for you to make you obsolete.
Also, anything in business will have competent people, specs and checklists to check your quality. Expect 3 people to look at your shit and throw you out in half a minute or change the price to what you can really expect for the quality.
>>2458206
>Stephen Silver
Silver is kinda idealistic but I genuinely believe he cares. And if you listen to the stuff he says it's not like he's selling lies, there are some videos where he talks about what's lacking in portfolios and whatnot. It rarely comes off to me as "just try and it's easy to make it." I think he also wants to make sure artists entering the industry are better educated so they don't allow themselves to be taken advantage of (and by extension, make the overall industry conditions worse).
>Tom Bancroft
I've met him IRL and talked to him. He's not a fantastic illustrator or whatever, but he's a very nice guy. He talked about some harsh truths about the industry, like how it's very hard to still do 2D animation in the states and almost all the jobs still out there go to the old school 2D guys. He said he moved to illustration/character design because he liked to draw more than he liked to animate (didn't enjoy transitioning into 3D) and is able to support himself + his family off of that now. I wasn't aware he had some paid tutorial thing going on, but I can tell you isn't some scam artist. And he's a legit artist, he animated at Disney for a while and wasn't small time there at all.
>>2458206
The advice works for the 0.1% that can put insane amount of work and cares to an extreme extent so that they will accomplish success in art without paid training.
He's right, but only for people such as himself. We're likely not him, based on the fact that We're arguing on /ic/ instead spending all the time getting good.
You're also right in that they merely sell encouragement, and the reality is more than 99.999% of the people giving them views will not make it.
Statistically speaking, less people will become successful by watching a youtube tutorial than going to an art school, despite art schools having horrible statistics. Those people have double standards, because they made a job out of it, and they realized that their art videos are about being a psychologist / an art buddy, instead of an actual teacher. They know the game very well.
tl;dr if you had the motivation required not to need a proper art education, you wouldn't be on /ic/ in the first place
>>2458350
Actually, the statistics show that more people that are employed as working artists did not attend school, the opposite of what you're emplying. It's agiven that most people that endeavor for an art career don't make it. That doesn't make the people that promote self teaching and taking classes under other artists liars or hypocrites.
>>2458464
*implying; sorry tbhfam
>>2457717
nope
Thanks to the internet being a mainstay, it'll mean we get a flood of comprehensive reviews for every item.
If I wanted to know that Wacom still makes quality products then I look up reviews on Youtube/Blogspot/tech sites. And since I know their workmanship is still dependable (although they've recently faltered on innovation lately) then I'll see that I'm getting a quality purchase.
>>2459116
Maybe not artwork though, right?
Yes and yes, anon.
Source: five nights at freddy's
>>2457717
The monetary value of your work is determined by the specific price that brings you the most profit. You're not overpricing anything if you make more by raising prices. Same thing applies to underpricing.
>>2461027
good point, should I start high and bring it down?
>>2462608
I'm no economist but I would start low and slowly raise the price as demand increases. High prices don't draw demand. Quality work draws demand.
>>2462847
Things are kind of backwards in the art world. High prices drive up demand which dictates quality.
>>2462873
If that were true then an artist that's even moderately skilled could just post every sketch they make online for a million dollars and keep raising the price ad infinitum and every artist in the world would be richer than bill gates. Since most artists are poor I assume that psychotic snobs with fat wallets don't dictate the totality of the art market.
>>2458206
>Why would you make a channel that's mostly aimed at newbies who want to get into the industry (if your videos are mostly about motivation and work philosophy, you're talking to newbies) and tell these newbies that they need to keep the prices high and never work spec?
Because shitters working spec or underpricing their work will keep the market prices down, because clients will then expect lower prices from everyone, in addition to expecting you to continue to work for a pittance in the future.
Don't fucking do free work. It hurts everyone and not just yourself.
>>2458464
These statistics confirm that art schools just don't teach people the skills they need in order to find employment as artists.
>>2462847
It's called price elasticity of demand.
The market reacts less to higher prices.
It's the same way for gasoline.
Learn some economics, it'll greatly help your career if you freelance.
>>2462890
Thank you, centpai
>>2462879
Well if you can't make it now you never will. The art market is in a huge bubble right now because of newly rich retarded Chinese that have something to prove.
You only need to convince 2 prominent art collectors to buy from you to establish credibility and fleece the market.
>>2457717
Fuck yeah they will, I used to work at this place that makes graphics for clients. We would never get the client unless we put a really high price because apparently skill isn't important to the customer, it's the fact that if we ask for a lot of money, it must mean we're really good.
