Art tests, can we discuss it?
How extensive test could or should a studio send and with what timeframe?
Is it okay to send a test before the interview and/or not reply with feedback after finishing one?
Paid vs unpaid?
I figure there has to be some professionals working in studios here. I'm particularly curious to hear from any senior/lead/art directors.
>>2286805
I don't see the issue with paid art tests and have done a few myself. Even if the pay isn't great it's still okay in my opinion. But I don't ever do free art tests and think it is inappropriate for studios to ask that of artists.
You probably shouldn't spend more than a day or two MAX on an art test.
>>2286805
that looks really man. looks like an advanced version of the material ball
>>2286809
Can I ask what level jobs you are applying to?
I had an eight hour test for my first job
Second and current job I had a two day test
Now trying to move on I've had 6 extensive tests that takes up and over a week to finish. It's not really working.
>>2286816
sorry, it's not my artwork. just picked something that reminded me of an art test
>>2286865
Hm, those were for I guess entry level positions?
But yeah that seems kinda crazy how many you are doing and how much time you are spending.
>>2286865
That's because you already gave them your work for free you daft cunt.
Give them your portfolio and let them judge on that, NEVER give ANYTHING away for free. You show these people your portfolio, if they want an image they have to pay for it.
>muh test
FUCK that, dude.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWXYoD7wfOs
>>2286877
how did you get hired?
>>2286877
>NEVER give ANYTHING away for free. You show these people your portfolio, if they want an image they have to pay for it.
That sounds so great in theory. In practice though, how do you make it work? Unless you're a really big name famous artist whom they approached specifically because they want YOU, you have to figure that they've got 100 other candidates lined up who are desperate to do a free art test on the off-chance that they'll get hired.
I've only had one paid art test in my LIFE. I'm so sick of doing them for free (and then never hearing back). But how do you say no? It's tantamount to saying "I don't really need this job." But what if you do?
Hi OP,
contrary to what some people have stated, it is not necessarily good practice to refuse any art test, or demand payment for all of them.
First of all, an art test is not immediately asked of every applicant. Normally, when a selection already has been made and only a few are left, you can be asked to do an art test to determine if you have enough of a very specific skill that is not immediately apparent in your portfolio. This can be for example about working quickly and in a smart way, or being able to come up with a good design in a limited time.
Such an art test should take no more than a few hours. This is not really paid. It should be more sketching, and describing your work process, than creating a final artwork. But any task that takes more time and effort than that, or what could be regarded as 'final' artwork, should definitely be paid.
Basically, that's how it's done where I work. Unfortunately there are plenty of studios that, indeed, try to make take advantage of applicants and make them work for free on things that should be paid.
Use your own discretion. I do not think it would be a good idea anyway to work for a company that treats people like that, even if you get hired. As an employee you would get maltreated as well. On the other hand, if what they ask is within reason and clearly explained, it might work against you to refuse outright.
>>2286897
"If you would like to see examples of my work, you can view my portfolio online at http://example-art.com/"
In the 8 years I've worked in the game industry I've had the occasion to be part of the interviewing and hiring of around 5 people.
Even with people who had a job interview and were not hired, I make it a point of having a short chat with them afterwards to explain them why they were not hired and what they could do to improve their chances.
It is also company policy at the place I work to inform every job applicant as soon as possible.
As I've said in my previous post, how a studio manages job applications is a good indicator if it is a good place to work or not.
Personally, I hate studios that use online application forms, making the entire process fully automated without a chance to communicate with an actual person. It shows a total disregard for people.
>>2286933
"Ok, thanks for your time. We've decided you're not the right candidate for this job, but we'll put your information on file."
It gets tough to stand on principle when you have bills to pay. Part of working in a very competitive field like art is knowing that there's always at least 100 people eager to do what you won't.
>>2286969
That line of thinking is WHY artists can't find jobs. We even let the "potential" employer dick us around and it devalues us all in the end. How far did that anon get doing all of those art tests? If there are "100 people eager to do it", how much free work did this company get by refusing 99 candidates and keeping the results for themselves?
>>2286969
Maybe if you aren't comfortable enough to refuse to do free work, it's because you aren't good enough to make any money at it, and therefore not good enough to work for them.
haha, or whatever.
I would do free work for certain 'big deal' type clients, but the best clients won't ask for free work to begin with.
>>2286984
Although,now that I think about it...
>Does tons of work for free to build portfolio.
>Potential employer asks for a bit more
>NOPE!
I dunno, ideally, doing free work is bad because it says 'my time and skill are worth literally nothing', but pragmatically, it might be a wise choice here and there.
>>2287215
I imagine the first step is to have a diverse portfolio and have plenty of bases covered to begin with, the second is simply going into 'negotiation mode' and projecting your professionalism. Just say "Here's my portfolio, I feel its contents adequately represent my ability as an artist. If you want a more specific piece done I'm going to have to ask for blah blah blah".
The whole concept of drawing something for a company for free is insulting. The jew, I mean vampire, art director or whoever the hell this person is is sitting there demanding that you spend however much time to draw something very specific at their request just to "see if they like your work" while they are getting paid lots of money to flippantly sift through these dozens, maybe 100's of submissions that who-knows-how-many artists had poured countless time and effort into-likely stealing the ones they like and discarding the rest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqOetWfhzDI
skip to 5:00 for the most topical portion of the video.
>sometimes they'll say: "Just do a little doodle for this toy and we'll see if it's going in the right direction
>the minute you do that drawing to "see if it's going in the right direction" you're done.
>>2287279
>>sometimes they'll say: "Just do a little doodle for this toy and we'll see if it's going in the right direction
>>the minute you do that drawing to "see if it's going in the right direction" you're done.
excellent point. refuse this kind of stuff guys. use the time to get better instead. and get a part time job while doing a little bit of porn on the side. that can usually get you by each month.
>>2286877
That video was awesome.
>>2286805
it's something
>>2286984
>how much free work did this company get by refusing 99 candidates and keeping the results for themselves
I'm doing senior level tests. It means visual research and problem solving, usually in projects that they have already finished and have solutions to.
The results of these tests are not valuable in production.
I'm op and the problem is mainly that everything test is too big and takes up too much time.
>>2286805
I want this tutorial...
This isn't really a solution to this, but maybe you could put a big ass watermark on the art that says sample or some shit, at least for free art tests. So that way at they cant use your art after you have done the art test. If they ask for you to take it off then just say no fuck you pay me, and move on, but I don't have any work experience in art, so idk if this is realistic
>>2286865
>I had an eight hour test for my first job
>Second and current job I had a two day test
>Now trying to move on I've had 6 extensive tests that takes up and over a week to finish.
Good job, you just worked for free.
These studios will never hire you in the first place, they are looking for free quick work as an end goal.
Also,
>make varied portfolio
>dont need to do art test about any landscape
Literally taking commissions from DA or enlarging your portfoglio is more profitable than getting scammed by art tests.
>>2287554
Why not ask for compensation then? If it takes only a couple hours then whatever just do it, but if it takes and entire day or more then it's not unfair to politely ask for some pay for your time.
>>2287668
>company said they wont use them so that means it's true
They will not publish it / not use the actual piece, sure, but they will still draw ideas or weed out options for themselves.
You know how in CA positions you are asked to do 50 flavors of a thing? Exactly. You were one of those 50. Not necessarily final but that doesn't mean it's a waste of time.
Knowing what you do NOT want is essentially as valuable as knowing what you want.
>>2287668
By doing those tests though you are encouraging these companies that it's okay to ask people to do large tests for free. You're basically making the problem worse. It's better to decline doing them unless they are paid.
>>2287675
>>2287671
I have worked for five years now and I've done tests for both studios. Every artist hired during my time has been forced to do art tests. Only tech artists and tech animators has been the exception.
In one occasion the test was meant to be used in production, he got paid and hired.
How do you guys manage to get positions by just your portfolios? Are you undershooting your positions and applying to real easy jobs or are your portfolios just really good?
>>2287687
It's worth noting that not very many people on this board have much, if any, studio experience. Take the opinions here for what you will, but I would be hesitant to accept opinions at their face value. Better to ask people through facebook or skype or email who are actually in the industry and whose opinions you can trust.
>>2287687
>How do you guys manage to get positions by just your portfolios?
That's the thing: they don't. All the people in this thread who are talking about how they'd never do free art tests are amateurs on the level of what you see in the drawthreads here: terribad.
Once they actually start trying to get work, they'll learn that you either do free art tests or you simply don't work. Unless you're on the level of a Maciej Kuciara or a Feng Zhu or someone whom employers seek out specifically for their particular style, employers are not going to hire you unless they know for certain that you can adapt to work in the style they want.
http://www.theartorder.com/blog/dungeons-dragons-pencil-test
Check this shit out. Even WotC demands free art tests.
>>2287814
>All the people in this thread who are talking about how they'd never do free art tests are amateurs on the level of what you see in the drawthreads here: terribad.
THIS.
If you're starting out, you're gonna be dealing with art tests all around. No decent company is going to hire your ass without knowing if you can do the job, especially if your CV is fucking empty. When you actually get some experience down the line you can leverage that to get out of art tests (if you do get art tests after a few years of working in studios, it's probably because you were an idiot that didn't know how to leverage your network in your benefit), since you already got a body of work/CV that proves you're no amateur/freshman. The idea that you can get hired solely by your portfolio when you got no experience and no name is fucking delusional.
>>2287822
plus, a lot of people apply to art jobs with fake portfolios. Even Massive Black at one point hired a guy on his portfolio who turned out to be an art-thief who had stolen every image in it.
it costs money to hire people, to fly them out for interviews, to pay for their relocation costs, etc. unless you're already famous, you're going to have to do free art tests.
>>2287823
Wouldn't it be pretty obvious if someone stole images? That seems like a pretty big thing to not check or notice something is fishy. I also don't get what that person would plan on doing if they did get hired.
And do companies seriously fly people out for interviews? All the interviews I've done where I am not in the same city have been over skype.
>>2287823
>Massive Black at one point hired a guy on his portfolio who turned out to be an art-thief who had stolen every image in it.
That's a pretty good point I suppose, I failed to consider that phenomenon; it's probably why these art tests were created to begin with. I think the funny thing about it is that many of the people working in this field are photobashers, ostensibly art thieves themselves lol
>>2287825
>And do companies seriously fly people out for interviews? All the interviews I've done where I am not in the same city have been over skype.
Depends. A friend of mine was flown to Romania for an interview with Ubisoft (on the programing side).
Usually if they're flying you over there's a pretty good chance they'll keep you, unless you royally fuck up your on-site interview.
Some studios will also require that you take an on-site test to check your skills. Naughty Dog has one of those I believe.
>>2287215
>Does tons of work for free to build portfolio.
That's not free work because no one can just use it for free, unlike art tests
>HURR DURR THEY BE DOIN ART TEST TO STEAL IDEAS GUYS!
This is retarded. First of all, no respectable company wants to deal with having claims of plagiarism/bad press from stealing ideas and illustrations of people. In fact, for example, it's Bethesda's policy to not accept ideas that you might send to them due to the potential of lawsuit for plagiarism. Companies are aware that having someone screaming foul play on social media would be a fucking PR nightmare.
Second of all, most of the art tests that are sent are from internal briefs that were already fulfilled or standard shit that's been sent over and over again to all artists. What people are looking for on art test is more about your thought and design process, your time management skills, your capacity to be art directed and follow design specs on command, etc.
>>2287932
butthurt art director please go damage control elsewhere lmoa
>>2287932
>First of all, no respectable company wants to deal with having claims of plagiarism/bad press from stealing ideas and illustrations of people.
Hahaha. That's pretty naive, anon. Zynga was famous for stealing the ideas for entire GAMES from smaller companies. Art tests are absolutely used to get free concept art done - you have no idea how much shady shit is going on if you don't think so. It's not the norm, and I'm sure successful companies don't bother with it, but if you get offered an "art test" from some game company that you've never heard of before who's website is just a facebook page or something? Probably gonna steal your shit. I get a lot of offers like that.
>>2288164
>Zynga
>respectable
TOP KEK
>>2288164
>I get a lot of offers like that.
Everyone expects the artist to be the "fall guy" and work for free and the unfortunate thing is they get their way far more often than they should. People even try this with professional artists. I was on the "AMB Animation Academy" facebook page just the other day and in the visitor posts section there was like an 8 paragraph screed of some guy soliciting the page's owner for 66 minutes of animation footage with no mention of payment to be found.
edit: I decided to screen grab it
In fact, if any of you working artists on /ic/ reading this want to contribute your own similar solicitations it would be most amusing.
>"Idea Guys"
Am I right?
>>2287840
>fly over for interview
usually this has happened after initial interview and passed art test. in my experience (frm both sides) if you get flown somewhere they are more selling their company than having doubts about the person hiring.
>>2287825
we had concept artist applying with stolen images before. some guy made "studies" of eytan zana's environments and changed a character or object then pulled them off as his own. I caught it, being a fucking nerd hanging around here too much, but my AD and lead completely missed it. he was up for test and on site interview but got a different job before anything was discovered.
>>2287814
I figured that by now and it's the reason this thread is derailing, most comments seems to be based around what some famous facebook artists said and far from actual experience.
I have my last interview in Thursday before I am taking a break from applying. I am not sure yet how I am to relate to the test that I am sure they will ask me to do. What's for certain is that I've already passed my stress level and can't afford to waste any more vacation days so I might just have to say no to it no matter what I think about doing them at all. .
>>2288280
>I figured that by now and it's the reason this thread is derailing, most comments seems to be based around what some famous facebook artists said and far from actual experience.
The truth likely lies somewhere in between. How many more art tests are you willing to take before you break down is the real question?
>>2288274
you don't refuse art tests. Don't listen to these guys. Like it's been said, unless you're a rockstar with a bunch of years under your belt, you're gonna have to prove your worth by showing what you can do.
Passing on art tests is just shooting yourself in the foot. Suck it up, do the thing, get the job. I wish more people would have such a too-good-for-an-art-test attitude, would make job hunting and getting to the next phase easier.
>>2287279
Great post mate.
