>"Carolingian Renaissance"
>"Ottonian Renaissance"
>My failing imitation is slightly better than yours
Don't you mean
>B > >>>
Well, at least the Byzantine Empire was actually something at one point, instead of some weird Model Civilization.
That said, the Byzantine Empire did little more than linger after Justinian, so whatever.
They both sucked and were gay.
>>995875
>Did more than linger
They survived, and thats what makes them interesting. There was hardly a time after Justinian were things were legitimately looking good for Byzantium, and not because of lack of competent rulers, but because they were constantly beset by massive amounts of pressure from all sides.
Why I find them interesting.
>>995869
It does because of that gay ass flag.
>>995883
>They survived
No they didn't
>>995869
>t. Mehmet
>>995912
Well, for about a thousand years they did.
Thats what I meant at least.
>>994983
>"Constantinople"
>>995883
This desu. The constant wars with the Persians and then the Arabs and later Turks take most of the historical record, but it hides that they were also constantly dealing with barbarian invasions from the West. They basically fought a hopeless two front war for a thousand years.
I once read the Alexiad by Anna Komnene, it's fascinating how the first crusade is dealt with like just another barbarian migration, by barbarians who happened to be Christian.
One thing I often think about is what a shock the Arab invasions must have been. They had just conquered Persia after what most have been the must devastating war in history to that point. Only to be set upon once again by a massive and organised enemy. And we know so little about it.
>>994983
>t. Mehmet Öztürk
>>996228
>The Alexiad
Just finished this one, boy was that a tough read.
But yeh, It wasnt even just Western invasions, they had to deal with constant incursions from the northeast. Rus, Pechenegs, Cumans, Bulgars, Slavs and more were always a constant concern, in addition to the arabs from the east and Latins from Italy and elsewhere. All this ontop of religious schism and heresies that never ended.
>>995869
DELETE THIS
>>996228
>They had just conquered Persia
No, they campaigned through persian armenia and Mesopotamia, but didnt touch the most important parts of the Seleucid Empire nor did they conquer any shit.
>>996228
Indeed. Overall, the history of the Eastern Roman Empire is just tragedy after tragedy. The Empire had every single one of its neighbors as enemy, it even dealt with treason from its Christian "allies" and the various factions and pretenders within the Empire itself. When things were looking positive (Makedon, Komnenoi), suddenly the worst that could possibly happen, happened and ruined everything that was worked so hard for.
And yet, it lasted for so damn long it's amazing. It outlived the Arabs, the Seljuk's, the Mongols, the Crusader kingdoms, the Vikings, the Bulgarians, every other Empire that attempted against them in one way or another. Even Venice was a shell of its former self by the time Constantinople was taken.
>Eastern
Maybe relatively speaking but really not all that Eastern
>Roman
>>>
>Empire
Nah
>>997524
>Even Venice was a shell of its former self by the time Constantinople was taken.
Nigga what? Venice peaked in the late 15th century.
>>997639
It was Eastern, it was Roman, and it was an Empire.
Deal with it, Papalfag
>>997654
Boris Papadapoulos pls go
>>997639
How the fuck was it not an empire
>>997672
Don't bother with stupid people. They can't see the subtlety of the ERE and why it was the best empire that ever existed just because it managed to survive for a whole millennium surrounded by enemies from all sides.
>>997524
>It outlived the Arabs, the Seljuk's, the Mongols, the Crusader kingdoms, the Vikings, the Bulgarians, every other Empire that attempted against them in one way or another.
Well, it didn't really outlast the HRE, but besides them, yeah.
>>997738
The ""HRE"" started in 936, the ERE started between 330 and 610 (depends on the interpretation) so it started much earlier thus didn't outlive it.
>>997757
It was around to see the end of the byzantines, and it also lasted for about 350 years afterwards, so if that doesn't give it a longer lifespan, it at least comes very close.
When you said outlived, I figured that you meant "survived until a later date than" not "lived longer than"
>>996228
The Wars with Persia was exactly the greatest mistake Byzantium and Persia ever made.
They both wore each other down to the nub for very little gain on either side such that a group of startup savages managed to sweep up one of the greatest Empires ever known and much of another.
Fucking retarded, all of them.
>>997895
Every battle the arabs fought against the Greeks and the Persians in the initial arab conquests they were outnumbered
>>998432
Source?
Regardless war isnt just about numbers.
>>997895
>They both wore each other down to the nub for very little gain on either side such that a group of startup savages managed to sweep up one of the greatest Empires ever known and much of another.
To be perfectly honest, they would not have fared much better without the war. The plague just crushed the region to the point where the Arabs, Slavs, and Turks were just a formality no different from the Franks, Goths, and Berbers in the west.
>>997895
It's easy to say that in hindsight but from what I recall, at the time they both thought that arabia was filled with nothing but unorganized nobodies. And this was a reasonable thing to think, cause nobody would able to predict the rise of Islam, it was just so random and ridiculous.
>>997672
It stopped being a multicultural empire after the Muslim conquests. It was nothing more than a Greek kingdom, "Empire" in name only.
>>999890
>what is Armenia
>what is Moesia
>what are the Slavic migrants
>>994983
>tfw Charles the Big could've married Zoe and united the two empires
>>999940
>Armenia
For like 10 years
>Moesia
See above
>Slavic migrants
They migrated, and often cucked the byzzies
>>998432
Sassanid Empire had lost half its population to a fucking massive plague outbreak that lasted over 7 years and only ended just a year before the Arabs started invading Byzantine/Persian Mesopotamia. On top of that the Sassanids had only *just* concluded 8 years of civil war for the throne, short lived rulers, and the flooding of the Euphrates and Tigris river destroying much of the most fertile croplands and argicultural heartland of the empire's breadbasket so starvation was a massive thing.
Arabs were outnumbered? But the constant Arab medieval claims of Persians fielding hundreds of thousands of men, same with the Byzantines, is absolute horseshit.
>>1000062
You do realize that Armenia is a lot bigger than it used to be, right?
Uh, they held onto Moesia for a long fucking time, though, granted, on-and-off.
And, of course, whenever they reconquered territory, they ruled over those ethnic groups (e.g. Bulgarians).
>>1000091
>Armenia used to be a lot bigger than it was
What I meant to say, my bad.
>>999889
Eh, the Byzantines and Sassanids were both well aware of the Ghassanids and Lakhmids but otherwise weren't really interested in Arabia's interior regions. The disposal and assassination of Nu'man III, the last Lakhmid king, and Christian Arab dyansty, is what really paved the way for Islam to enjoy its success.
Its generally believe if there wasn't a strained relationship between Nu'man and Khosrau, who were originally friends, that Islam might've been stopped by him.
>>1000091
armenoid shitposter approves of this post
>>997524
Funny. The Ottomans were in the same situation having all of it's neighbors as enemies. In fact the east (Timurids, Persians, Mamluks etc.) did more damage then Europe did for a while.
I guess the Ottomans were just straight up better then ERE :^)
>>997518
>Mesopotamia
>not the most important part of Persia.
The Sassanid capital was in Mesopotamia.
