Could have Spain and Portugal ever united? Because for an outsider it seems plausible.
> similar languages
> same religion
> reqonqista was unifying factor
> they would both benefit from unifying colonies
> it was possible with Castile and Aragon
>>972548
Portugal is a meme propped up by Britain for geopolitical reasons, sort of like Belgium
>>972551
>>>/int/
>>972551
But what if Belgium was real?!
*dramatic music*
>>972548
Not back when it mattered no, because as anon said brits
Now it's too far gone to bother
>>972548
Aragon, Galicia, Navarre, Castillia and Portugal were all kind of similar. The fact that Portugal didn't unite with the est is merely an accident.
>>972548
Already happened
>The Iberian Union was the dynastic union of the Crown of Portugal and the Spanish Crown between 1580 and 1640, bringing the entire Iberian Peninsula, as well as Spanish and Portuguese overseas possessions, under the Spanish Habsburg kings Philip II, Philip III and Philip IV of Spain. The union began as a result of the Portuguese crisis of succession and the ensuing War of the Portuguese Succession and lasted 60 years,[1][2] until the Portuguese Restoration War in which the House of Braganza was established as Portugal's new ruling dynasty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_Union
>>972548
>Map shows Spanish and French cities
>Not even Lisbom in Portugal
Was that map made by a Spaniard?
>>972548
But it did, anon, under Phillip II.
>>972551
First post best post.
The English are butthurt that if they can't keep Ireland and Scotland from hating on them, then they'll try to divide and conquer as much as possible.
>>972548
as a portuguese i have to say in all honesty it would be better for both but specially for portugal to be part of spain
we're around 10 million which is the number of inhabitants of most big nation's capitals in the ue
add economical stagnation since the 90's and mass emigration and you have the perfect brew to create a non-country.
at this point we lack refined culture, everything as to be made for the masses in order to generate some revenue, we lack real entrepreneurs and have instead parasites and retards creating meme shops based on fads/hostels/tourist shit and a couple of monopolies destroying every small business and paying their taxes abroad.
so yeah, if you add to that all the brain drain sponsored by (notnazianymore,we swear)germany in which the country invested heavily, you can see this country has no future and will just turn in another romania and a worthless country with an economy based on tourism and minimum wage sweat shops - like any 3rd world country
>>972682
>Romania
The country with the largest economic growth in the EU since adhering. You lads would do well to look up to Romania
How badly did the colonial losses fuck you up? Would you be better with Angola, Mozambic, Cape Verde and Bissau?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_da_Paz,_Prince_of_Portugal
Miguel de la Paz could have been king of all Iberian kingdoms
>>972688
well, romania is pretty much one of the poorest states in ue (along with their neighbor nations), so if you add 1 to 0 you have 100% boost. but i don't think looking up to a country with the average wage is around 400€ is a very good idea unless we want to dig ourselves even further...
about the colonial losses: at the time most of them weren't as profitable as they once were and going to war was actually more expensive than just letting them go but you can't put pragmatic values on the head of a iron fist dictator who saw the colonies as a matter of prestige more than anything else; but unlike france, england, etc our colonies were mostly filled with catholic negros so once independece was given to them and after the subsequent mass influx of imigrants back to portugal (whites and blacks) they didn't have a serious problem getting integrated - unlike the gypsies but that's another subject for another time...
[cont]
>>972718
[cont.]
but ultimately giving up the colonies wasn't a staggering blow to the economy because the economy was already shit - so imf came and bailed out portugal twice
12 years after that, portugal entered the european union and was showered in gold and now were drowing in debt because "oops i didn't know we had to pay"
>>972548
In truth, that was the original plan and unification was meant to happen under the Catholic Monarchs and the ruling House of Portugal. However, like other anon posted before, the heir that would unify the Kingdoms died before accessing the throne (and the same happened to the second in line) so instead of merging with Portugal, Castille and Aragon became accidentally Hassberger'd.
There was a dynastic Union later, in 1580, but it wasn't the same because of the way it happened and the fact that Portugal was already a Great Power that had developed its own international policy and stands that were not necessarily in line, but above all, not wishing to be put aside by continental Hassberger policies.
After 1640 though, it's just basically this >>972551
>>972548
Phillip II of Spain was at one point king of:
>Spain
>Portugal
>Southern Italy (Naples)
>Sicily
>England
>Ireland
While also being Duke of Milan and Lord of the Seventeen Provinces of the Netherlands.
>>972548
They were briefly united in the 15th century, although it fell apart. I don't see why it couldn't have endured, although I'm not an expert on that political climate.
>>973862
err, 16th century, sory, typo.
Why not unite Canada and the US while we're at it? They're pretty similar, right?
>>973878
Well why not?
>>973862
In the mid 17th century all countries were against Spain. That caused our decline. We were a real threat for everyone, you just have to see that we had the largest empire at that time. There were even plans to conquer China, imagine how could have been a world dominated by Spain for a longer time.
>>972551
tru 2bh
t. portuguese
just kill my country already
>>973878
They are, more similar than Spain and Portugal.
>>973878
I thought Americans hated speaking French.
>>973878
The canadians would endlessly bitch about us actually having stuff like freedom of speech and the second amendment.
>>972548
Would a Muslim Andalusia/Granada have worked out in a united Spain if it had survived the Reconquista and incorporated on different terms? What about Toulouse?
>>973894
>In the mid 17th century all countries were against Spain.
Gee I wonder why? Could it be because you had been meddling in European affairs for centuries by then? Nah, you dindu nuffin amirite?
>>973978
He literally said Spain was a threat to everyone and had plans to conquer even China at that point.
>>973962
Al-Andalus was pretty much doomed by 900, as much as people (especially Andalusians and other Islamaboos) likes to write tons of text in how it was an utopia with 21st century standards of religious tolerance and stuff, the place was a sectarian shithole with tons of ethnic conflicts, HRE-tier decentralization and invasions from north (Christians) and south (Moors).
Surely there was some neat stuff (like in Cordoba), but the perspective of survival was pretty nill.
>>973978
>European affairs
You are saying that as if we weren't an European empire.
>>972548
>Could have Spain and Portugal ever united?
Of course, they were and the Habsburg state was bankrupt and fighting every powerful nation on earth at the time, they would still have been united. Catalonia AND Andalusia were almost states for the same reason.
Portugal is independent cause Spain is unlucky.
>>972551
this is true believe it or not
lol
>>973878
That was one of the underlying goals during the war of 1812.
Well, there was also the failures of Portugal that set the state into deep languish such as the earthquake that destroyed Lisboa, and Sebastian.
>>972551
Fuck off
If you're American that just makes you even stupider
>>972688
>How badly did the colonial losses fuck you up? Would you be better with Angola, Mozambic, Cape Verde and Bissau?
Trying so hard to keep those colonies is part of why modern Portugal is so shit. They sunk a lot of blood and resources into lost causes, especially most of Mozambique and Guinea-Bissau. The only places they could have kept is portions of Angola (maybe, and it would get harder and harder with time) and Cape Verde (which they could have and honestly should have kept)
>>978852
I feel like you're just throwing things up out of your ass. Cabo Verde has no natural resources meanwhile Moçambique is green and lush filled with plenty of resources. Moçambique was definitely very much worth it.
>>974143
I don't think the question was about an independent Muslim Andalusia on the same level as Portugal so much as its own subkingdom within Spain in the way Spain itself was Castille, Leon, and Aragon.
>>973894
>conquer China
Good luck with that one.
Portugal and Spain being different countries never had any sense. It's just an effect of politics and dynasties stuff.
>>982683
It doesn't have any sense for outsiders. Culturally we are very different. I can say the same thing for other countries too:
>why aren't Norway and Sweden a single country?
>why aren't Belgium and Netherlands a single country?
>why aren't Canada and USA a single country?
And so on. This whole thread just reeks of ignorance, but I guess that's to be expected in 4chan.
>>984301
Which culture differences are these?
>>984301
>>why aren't Belgium and Netherlands a single country?
>>why aren't Canada and USA a single country?
We at least have our own language m8.
>>985292
Which is, non-ironically, a direct deviant from dansk. Meanwhile portuguese and castillian (spanish) share a common root, but are not deviant from one another.
>>985308
I'm not a Nord, I'm portuguese.
I'm just talking that the US-Canada and Benelux isn't valid because Portugal and Spain have different languages.
A Germany-Netherlands would be better.
Is it true that Al Andalus was a progressive, great to live in state?
>>985319
Muito bem, era esse o exemplo que eu queria utilizar.
>>985319
Portuguese language is southern Galician.
Speaking Galician was not a problem for Galicia to be part of Spain. I don't see how it will be a problem for Portugal.
>>972688
Romania is growing because its shit. When you are shit, its easy to be slightly less shit.
>>986745
But it was, until it stopped being so.
What I don't get is why everybody itt finds it natural for a country that has been apart for more than 800 years to just join. We're not nordics and we're not germanic. Deal w it.
>>972688
>Would you be better with Angola, Mozambic, Cape Verde and Bissau?
Yes, all of our money, jobs etc. basically came from there.
The communists taking over ruined the country, it ruined the colonies it ruined fucking everything.
Under Salazar there was no political freedom, all parts of my family say this.
But there were jobs, there was happiness, the country was on its way back.
And all, it was quite literally just gifted away.
There is no bloody money in Portugal anymore, no happiness, nothing.
>>984301
Why are Bavaria and Brandenburg a single country?
>>986919
It happened in Germany and Italy
>Keeps us out of a World War
>Drags the economy out of the shitter
>TWICE
>Almost the entire world against every single country that didn't want to give up their colonies, because having ones is quite racist
Now Portugal is nothing, a slave to the EU , Salazars end was befitting when compared to what would happen to Portugal.
Please, if there are any Americans here.
Do not vote for the Socialist.
Look to Poland and what happened when they were under Communist oppression,
look to China
Bulgaria
Hungary
DDR
look at what happened to my country.
Once a world power, now a slave.
More power to the people, comrade.
Viva la revolucion, comrade.
Look how free you are, look how equally miserable we are, comrade.
https://youtu.be/tBVDdr3wqm4
In an alternative reality, they survived and prospered
>>986919
>What I don't get is why everybody itt finds it natural for a country that has been apart for more than 800 years to just join.
Because in the 19th century there were lots of national unification movements that united nations like Germany and Italy from individual states that have also been separate entities for just as long. Meanwhile other kingdoms like France or Britain began imposing the dialect and culture of their capitals on the rest of the nation while in Eastern Europe their national identities were formed in direct opposition to a foreign, imperial power like Russia, Austria, or Turkey.
Spain and Portugal are the odd ones out, with Spain being unable and unwilling to absorb Portugal and to impose one form of Spanish on the rest of the country to wipe out the old dialects.
>>985320
It's lovely how I try to look up "Islamic atrocities in Iberia" and the only thing that comes up first is "Persecution of Muslims".
These people drag my countries history through the dirt.
Good thing we are such shitholes and no one wants to come here.
>>989026
Just, plain, no.
>>980338
Having to deal with the burden on a fucked up population is a much heavier burden then you think it is.
Most other places that had colonies could hold onto them despite the heavy financial costs but Portugal was struggling very hard with it's finances. Portugal had a lot of emigration to colonies because the homeland was pretty shit for various reason where poor or middle class.
>>972682
You could try everybody having twice as many kids and then waiting for them to become adult consumers?
I know words, this'll sort your problem out.
Also wtf not enough people? How does Ireland or someplace like Denmark survive then? Countries with half Portugal's population?
Don't give me that Anglosphere stuff, since Ireland is simultaneously dumping money into preserving and promoting arts in a language almost exclusively spoken by a minority in the country plus Eirephiles.
Plus don't you have Brazil? Angola? Mozambique to fall back on?
>>972548
That will never happen again. In the 17th century Portugal was unified with Spain, but then we reclaimed our independence, so this shows that Portugal has no interest in being unified with Spain. Btw the UK never really helped us. They stabbed our back at least twice in history. And we only made an alliance with them in 1385, more or less 200 years after our fundation.
>what is the Iberian Union
>>976916
>being so obsessed you have to bring up Americans being stupid in any trivial way
>>972551
although you are somewhat right, Portugal was a fundamental "meme"
were it not for the alliance, and I'd be posting this in spanish instead of english
>>973950
>America
>Freedom of Speech
kek, yeah, not for long
>>990090
You're welcome to back that up with whatever facts you might have.
>>989189
But people don't want to have kids. We have some of the highest rates of divorce in the world. Not to mention (prescribed) anti-depressive consumption, cigarette or other forms of tobacco consumption and other indicatives of idk general well-being. Plus with the general lack of specialized education, this means Portugal's labour is shitty and no one will pay them more than what it legally required. People are dumb, lazy and shitty. Idk what else to tell you.
>>972548
Except Portuguese are black moors from Africa and their Kang Alberto Barbosa ensured their independence.
>>989013
>Look to Poland and what happened when they were under Communist oppression,
We've had 10th biggest industry in the world including electronic industry that was like 4-5 years behind the cutting edge technology(so much closer than China at the same point of time) and modern shipyards.
Now we have "industry" which imports shit from china and changes the markings from "made in china" to "made in poland" and despite memes, our governments do whatever Germany(our post-colonial overlord) says. Now it's undercover though because current government likes to play strong and independent.
Communism wasn't great but its breakdown was the worst that happened to the country, no wonder, it was brought to us by, among others - well known CIA agent John Paul II.
>>973878
At this point, the only part of Canada we'd actually want would be Alberta.
The rest of them can die.
People who say that shit know nothing about Canada.
>>972688
>Romania
