So /his/, Marius or Sulla?
Team Marius till the day I die
Sulla. Fuck the plebs
Both are equally good and equally shitty. Marius saved the republic from shitskins in North Africa and Cimbri and Tuetone-fucking shits in Cisalpine Gaul, and made the Roman army nearly unparalleled for over 120 years with his reforms. Sulla defeated Mithirdates VI, the greatest general Rome had faced since Hannibal.
Marius was an insane gloryhound who massacred hundreds of civilians when he retook Rome. Sulla was a faggot who raised conscription lists because he was a dick.
Pick your poison. At least Augustus was super duper talented despite being an asshole.
Since /his/ is pretty much /leftypol/, I think most people will sympathize more with Marius. Not me, though.
Caesar
Sulla.
marsulliusa
>>956827
>ignoring that Sulla created the prescription system for making mass murder easy
>>956345
Sulla
Sulla ofc
>being team loser
>>956832
>nothing personnel pleb
also /his/ is not /leftypol/ by any stretch of the imagination
>>959066
We're pretty centrist here by 4chan standards, so both sides accuse us of being the other.
>>956827
The Republic wasn't really in any danger at all from Jugurtha though. That was truly a case of ancient "Iraq War" if there ever was one. Many innocents lay in his path, but Sulla did try to eradicate the parasitic knight-businessmen.
>>959165
I agree.
Also Sulla though.
>>956827
Wasn't it Lucullus that gave Mithridates VI a thrashing?
Marius all the way, even if he went a bit sour in his later years.
>>957659
Well
>Julius Ceasar doesn't use proscription
>gets assassinated
>Sulla and Augustus use proscription
>don't get assassinated
>>959919
Caesar was a great general but a terrible politician.
>>959944
t. historical illiterate
If you actually knew anything about that period of time, you'd know that Caesar was one of the greatest and sharpest politicians of his day, constantly outwitting his massively powerful and augustly named opponents (Cornelii, Caecilii, Lutatii, Claudii, etc.).
>>959868
They both did. Sulla won the first war, Lucullus the third (even tho Pompey stole all the glory).
Basically the history of Mithridates's life can be summarized as
>attack neighbours
>get rekt by Rome
>repeat thrice
>suicide
>>959988
t. ebin meme m8
If he was such an able politician, why couldn't he see the writing on the walls? Why'd he start trapezing around in psuedo-royal regalia? Why did he even consider arranging a crown ceremony? Why'd he assume that mercy would work in every given circumstance?
I have the utmost respect for Julius Caesar. He's one of the cornerstones of western civilization. But politically savvy he was not, at least in his later years when he assumed his conquests gave him all the legitimacy he'd ever need.
>>960004
>If he was such an able politician, why couldn't he see the writing on the walls? Why'd he start trapezing around in psuedo-royal regalia? Why did he even consider arranging a crown ceremony? Why'd he assume that mercy would work in every given circumstance?
Cicero wrote that the war in Spain against men he forgave unhinged him.
>>960004
>at least in his later years
There you go, we could have avoided this if you'd only put that in your first post. I agree with you there, he was blown up by his own eventual arrogance and sense of invincibility.
>>959868
That would be the Armenian king, Tigranes the Great at Tigranocerta.
>>960019
A shame, really. Caesar would've been a pretty good dictator for life if he hadn't gone all Alexander the Great on us. Then again, he would've probably tried to pass the throne to Caesarion or some shit, so perhaps it's better things went down the way they did.
>>960068
Eh, I think he was sane enough not to do that. Apparently he never officially acknowledged Caesarion, he adopted Octavian instead, and there was no throne to pass on you know.... After Caesar died there was no dictator, nobody was claiming any sort of title, elections had to be held and the government was in a shambles.
Anyway, there's no way that a Roman elite that had lamented Cato the Censor as an Italian peasant less than two hundred years before, when he was from Tusculum, a mere 20 miles from Rome, and the elite who constantly called Gaius Marius an Italian despite his family having held the citizenship for generations, would have accepted the bastard son of an eastern queen.
>>960108
>elections had to be held and the government was in a shambles
I'm pretty sure the cesarians and the liberatores agreed to let Caesar's nominations stand specifically to avoid elections and power void.
>>960024
Tigranes thrashed Lucullus though. Although sadly Roman sources on Tigranes, like Plutarch, are horribly biased and unreliable because Tigranes was an absolute monarch. Tigranes actually lost at Tigranocreta because Greek mercenaries, who compised of 80% of his standing army, were bought out by the Romans. Tigranes defeated Lucullus afterwards at another battle and forced him to retreat, however.
Marius was hella based.
>>959919
Caesar was at the height of his power when he was murdered by a group of Optimate Senators. Sulla abdicated power and Augustus never used it either.
Try again.
>>960260
>Augustus never used it either.
You fucking wot
>"While Augustus understood the need to have a protector in the maelstrom of Rome, he was careful to uphold the Republican veneer of his regime. Thus, he allowed only nine cohorts to be formed, originally consisting of 500 men. He then increased to 1,000 men each, but allowed three units to be kept on duty at any given time in the capital. A small number of detached cavalry units (turmae, sing. turma) of 30 men each were also organized... they patrolled inconspicuously in the palace and major buildings"
Praetorian Guard was formed by Augustus to protect the Princeps
>>960068
>he hadn't gone all Alexander the Great on us
Caesar was busy reforming Roman Society, its calendar, its political system, settling his thousands of troops, and planning a large scale invasion of Parthia that would have made Gaul look like a trounce around the backyard. He also didn't become a maniac and kill his friends, he was all about those clemency brownie points.
He probably had some effects of his epilepsy that fucked him over a few times (such as the infamous "refusal" to stand up and greet the senate), plus he likely thought his friends (supposed) would not stab him (literally) in the back, considering of how lenient he really was. Apparently he was super horrified when he was being attack by Brutus, his stand-in son.
>>960277
Proscription ! = Conscription
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proscription
>>960260
>Augustus never used it either
Augustus never used proscription? The fuck? Between his enemies and Anthony's he killed off half the optimates in the city. How do you think Cicero died?
>>959821
>Sulla did try to eradicate the parasitic knight-businessmen.
dumbest thing I've read all day. He reduced their influence in the courts, yes, but the equites were a symptom not a cause of Rome's problems. Anyway Sulla appointed many of his equites supporters to the senate
>>960377
Anthony and Lepidus killed the most of the people in them. Augustus had nothing to do with that, now Octavian however, disenfranchised a lot of his Senatorial enemies but compared to the scale of what Antony or Sulla did?
Not comparable.
>>960717
Come on, that's mirror climbing.
The triumvirate decided to enact proscriptions both to accrue funds and to do away with political enemies. Regardless of how many names Augustus contributed to the lists, he still was one of the three (two really, no one ever gave a shit about Lepidus) who ordered them, and he made money out of them.
At length a Gaul, who had seen him as he fought with the Cimbri, was sent, sword in hand, to kill the prisoner.
Marius had been thrust into a dimly-lighted room. As the Gaul opened the door he saw nothing save two eyes which gleamed like fire. As he advanced the eyes seemed to follow his every movement, until he was conscious of nothing save the terror of that burning gaze.
The next moment a loud voice cried: "Fellow, darest thou kill Gaius Marius?" and in a flash the Gaul knew that in truth he dared not. Throwing down his sword, he rushed from the room in a frenzy of terror, crying: "I cannot kill Gaius Marius."
>>960736
>no one ever gave a shit about Lepidus
Because Sextius Pompeius was more relevant then he was outside of being a buffer between Antony and Octavian.
>>956827
>Marius saved the republic from shitskins in North Africa
I think you mean Sulla, the war in Africa under Marius had stalled for years, it took Sulla to finish it off
>>956799
>Team Marius till the day I die
well lucky for all of us that'll be pretty soon pleb scum
>>956799
>Team Marius till the day I die
well lucky for all of us that'll be pretty soon pleb
