I know that the concept of a untied "German people" didn't really exist prior to the 19th century, but it still seems like before that, people recognized *some* sort of commonality amongst those Germanic-speakers located between France, Italy and Poland.
Was there really absolutely no concept of "Germans" prior to 1800s?
>inb4 ass-blasted slavs and ebin refugee yamyams
>>935209
The idea that nationalism didn't exist until the 1800s is a cuck meme.
Nations are way older than nation-states
>>935209
The cultural-linguistic group existed yes. Both Germans and Non-Germo Euronigs did know there was such a group.
The idea that they were a state/should be a state: not so much. Due to the amount of powerful nobles in Germany who were big on their rights and could only agree with centralized rule via rare consensus on the guy in Charge.
>i hate krauts who disagree with me but i hate other countries more
Here, you have your answer.
>>935219
>The idea that nationalism didn't exist until the 1800s is a cuck meme.
Literally nobody says this.
Most people say this
>There are no nation-states until the 1800's.
Sure there were "nations," but not everybody thought they should base the state around it. Even the supposed jumps-stater of the nation state - France- said that anyone who loves Muh Liberte is French. But then French went Ethnic by the 1800's.
>>935239
>He shares half a haplo-type with us. Pure-blooded german king.
>>935219
Nations, in the modern sense of the word, as in free to rule its own territory without intrusion from the outside, didn't exist before the peace of Westphalia, though, and even then proper nations came way after.
It was mostly kingdoms and fiefdoms back then, you could argue that there was tribalism and that people felt pride for serving certain feudal lord or king. But yeah, nationalism is a post-1800 serbian meme.
>>935209
>Was there really absolutely no concept of "Germans" prior to 1800s?
It would say that there was.
I could quote Wolfram von Eschenbach, the 13th century Knight and Minnesinger for example:
>Sie pflegents noch als mans dô pflac,
>swâ lît und welhsch gerihte lac.
>des pfliget ouch tiuscher erde ein ort:
>daz habt ir âne mich gehôrt.
>swer ie dâ pflac der lande,
>der gebôt wol âne schande
>(daz ist ein wârheit sunder wân)
>daz der altest bruoder solde hân
>sîns vater ganzen erbeteil.
>daz was der jungern unheil,
>daz in der tôt die pflihte brach
>als in ir vater leben verjach.
>Now they do to-day as of old time,
>where a foreign law holds sway
>Yea, in part of our German kingdom,
>as ye oft shall have heard men say,
>Whoever might rule that country,
>'twas the law, and none thought it shame
>('Tis the truth and no lie I tell ye)
>that the elder son might claim
>The whole of his father's heirdom
>And the younger sons must grieve,
>What was theirs in their father's lifetime,
>they perforce at his death must leave.
Wolfram tells us about "welhsch" (foreign) inheritance laws, which are also applied to a certain extent on "tiuscher erde" (German soil), clearly distinguishing between the land that is "foreign" and the land that is "German" - even making an association of nationality and soil, which some claim only came up in the 19th century. It is en vogue among leftist circles to say that "German" identity was something invented by 19th century nationalists and that there never was a German nation but throughout history people made reference to it. Certainly not in the blood-and-soil sense of National Socialism, but in the sense of a linguistically and culturally defined nation - which enclosed more than just Germany but pretty much all German speaking countries.
>>935209
I imagine there was a concept of Germans, but it was probably like how Arabs are thought of today. There is no serious movement for a united Arab nation, but people know there is come commonality from the area of Morocco to Iraq.
>>936583
>a linguistically and culturally defined nation - which enclosed more than just Germany but pretty much all German speaking countries.
Odin's kin.
>>935242
England in the early medieval times
>>935309
>they called it the unified german empire
>>936977
>And because they couldn't handle any banter, the serious discussion had become a joke.
>>936984
>america. the mere muttering of this name is enough to send any german into a spastic fit
>>936994
God damn I love that video
>>936994
>The funniest thing about it is that Americans were never aiming towards becoming a world superpower. They reached it as a side effect of being decent, likable people worthy of trust.
Well, you had this, of course.
>>937074
I'm sorry, what did they call it again?
>>937083
>HOLY
>>937083
You know, I can't quite think of it.
Heretical German Agglomeration?
No, no, that wasn't it...
Oh yes!
>Holy
>Roman
>Empire
>>937088
>LATIN
>>937090
Excuse me the what?
>>937099
Well, you see
>Holy (I say with a smirk, as I remember all of the heretical Emperors, and how they even waged war with the Pope)
>Roman (I let out a laugh at this, as most of the territory therein was not within the borders of the Roman Empire, nor has any cultural link with the Roman Empire)
>Empire (I am now shaking, suppressing my laughter, as I consider the various states and territories within the """""empire""""" which routinely go to war with and betray one-another)
>>937057
>>937176
Why haven't they built him a Giant bronze statue yet? put one with him and Charles Martel shaking hands, call it "Saviors of Europe"
>>937199
He was too good for this world
>>935209
>people recognized *some* sort of commonality amongst those Germanic-speakers located between France, Italy and Poland.
of course they did
>Was there really absolutely no concept of "Germans" prior to 1800s?
of course there was
the instutitions of the King of Germany as well as the name of the HRE from the 15th century onwards, that is the HRE of the GERMAN NATION spell it out rather explicitly
>>937053
It's good but I hope everyone who watches it knows it's 10 levels of satire and irony
>>935219
Nation and state are two completely different terms, you complete idiot.
>>936930
>England in the early medieval times
>Nation-state
WOW, YOU MEAN LIKE THE ANGLO-SAXON CUNTS WHO SHARED THE SAME CULTURAL-LINGUISTIC HERITAGE BUT LIVED IN SEPARATE KINGDOMS LIKE MERCIA, WESSEX, AND THE LIKE?
>>936930
You do realize that up until the end of the 100 years wars, the English ruled over a vast collection of French speaking territories, right?
Plus the English conquest of Ireland, Wales and Scotland was of an imperialistic nature, not of along national lines. Thousands of Welshmen fought for the English throughout the Middle-ages.
>>935209
That's absolute nonsense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Germany
>>936583
Does he also explain why the HRE had a dozen of Bohemian and half-Italian emperors?
>>938399
Austrians are also Germanic , yet they weren't part of the German kingdom.
>>938427
>I can't read
>>938427
He suggested people wouldn't have a sense of common ancestry or identity prior to the unification of Germany, while in reality it was literally the core concept of the Holy Roman Empire: A German kingdom to rule over an multiethnic empire.
>>938453
It wasn't purely German though, saying that the Holy Roman Empire is the same thing as the Prussian formed state afterwards is absurd.
Bohemia was literally a "primus inter pares" state among the other duchies, then you have all the Poles, Italians, and Baltics. Im certain Germans did have a shared linguistic identity prior to 19th century nationalism, but in teh context of nationalism it's just as abstract and devoid of meaning as saying "Arabs had a shared national identity, prior to the 20th post-colonial era".
>>938466
The German Kingdom was part of the HRE, nobody said anything else. It itself varied in extension though, mostly through losses in the West and sweet gainz in the East.
>>935318
Dante Alighieri promoted Italian unity against the Germans in the 1300s.
>>938419
I don't see how the ruler having a different nationality than his subjects would somehow make the country any less German if German is the predominantly spoken language. Not to mention that Bohemian and the Italian rulers weren't really that differently looking to suggest that they were of a different "race".
>>935219
But nationalism = nation states
Nationalism =/= "ethnicities exist"
