How strong would be a united Italy in the middle ages?
>>910191
Probably as strong as Spain or Portugal. Tuscany would produce some of the best explorers, cartographers, sailors etc in Europe. My LARPey fantasy is to have Italy unite in like 900 AD and have an established Kingdom until the modern day.
>>910191
Italians are lazy so it's unlikely it would've done much
>>911300
Come again son?
>>910191
Was Italy not one of the most urbanized countries?
I can only assume there'd be significant strife between an united Italy and france
>>913940
France would probably never have been as powerful as it was. A united Italy would probably have an Italian Charlemagne from around the same time Charlemagee lived. France would have existed on the periphery of this unified state.
>>911293
It all depends if Justinian doesn't launch his Gothic War. Italy was devastated from that conflict. It gives the local Roman population and their Gothic overlords to fuse during those decades of peace.
When the Lombards come, they either get repulsed, defeat the Ostrogoths and merge with them, or welcomed by rival factions that want to use them. The Germanic barbarians would wise-up and become Catholic like their subjects while mingling the style and attitudes of the Romance with the Germanic energy and focus.
Then there's the Arab invasions of Sicily and Bari, but that might get deterred if there was a united Italy full of Germanic warriors that are eager for battle.
However, Islamic civilization benefited Sicily immensely so if some Arab intellects, craftsmen, etc. were permitted to reside with freedom of religion and no discriminatory taxes, you could see this unified Italian kingdom to greatly prosper culturally and materially.
>>913952
I disagree. If an Italian Charlemagne arose amongst the Ostrogoths or Lombards, he'd concentrate more on consolidating his kingdom by granting trade charters to the ports, thus fueling growth. Not to mention fortifying the passes so that a Northern European invader doesn't come. The whole of Italy in the Middle Ages would become the premier naval power since their lifeblood depends on maritime commerce and travel as well as having thousands of miles of coastline.
>>910191
too strong
that's why it would have been impossible
>>916080
>muh trade
Are you Jewish?
Theoretically, wasn't Italy united a few times during the Middle Ages? There were a few Kings of Italy and for a while, the Holy Roman Empire had Italy.
>>916224
Only until the rise of the Italian city states after the Lombard League. We're thinking something like an independent kingdom ruled by an absolute monarchy which was never the case for Italy from 1000 AD onward.
The appeal of a unified Italy was to see what would have happened if all the wealthy and powerful city states formed together.
Strength is often determined by unity so the question is stupid.
>>910191
They would have became full WE WUZ ROMANZ, probably subjugating the pope or at least having a tight control over papal politics (as if italian states didnt do exactly that anyway), using their new large manpower and already large venetian naval experience they could have cucked the mediterranean world into oblivion
Also they pretty much would have been in eternal war against France, the ""H""R""E"", Any other major power, and maybe Byz (trying to ally them by the wewuz argument or at least subjugating them)
>>916210
No, but medieval Italy was famous for its role in trade. The maritime city-states of Venice, Genoa, Pisa, Amalfi, and Ancona went all over the Mediterranean. The Lombard League was over the rights of town dwellers and merchants against feudal oversight. Any monarch of a unified Italy in the Middle Ages would be concerned with commerce.
>>916765
There wouldn't be a Holy Roman Empire if Italy actually consolidated into a polity before Charlemagne. Remember, the HRE stems from him getting crowned in Rome by the Pope. It'd just be a collection of fractured German states and parts of West Slav areas sans northern Italy.
A united Italy from ~1500 or earlier would've been really interesting. I imagine they'd be very similar to Spain.
>>913928
I can confirm this. There were several popes named Urban
>>916765
>They would have became full WE WUZ ROMANZ
My fetish.
>>917235
Yeah, though I think what someone said above, how it might have lead to the HRE as an empire of German nations never existing is very interesting, I think that would have put it on par with Portugal
>>910191
>How strong would be a united Italy in the middle ages?
Italy had so many maritime port empires, its economy would have been enormous as compared to other European states at the time. It would be highly urbanized and geographically protected at the alps and the sea. Not to mention the intellectual dominance.
>>916080
>gives the local Roman population and their Gothic overlords to fuse during those decades of peace.
Theodoric The Great always stressed peace between peoples, but he also stressed separatism and banning of inter-marriage between Romans and Goths. Hes successors would probably ignore him but even the less separatist Visigoths took 200 years or so convert to Catholicism and unify its law codes for Gothi and Romani.
It would had been the strongest state in the world during the middle ages.
>>917491
Kek
>>917716
At least until the holy Romans came by
So many questions, though.
Where would the capital be? Who would be in charge?
Seeing that there was no one Italian culture, language or ethnicity, what would the struggles be like?
Things are way more complicated at this time for Italy. Hell, things were incredibly complicated still in 1860.
>>918218
My knowledge of medieval Italy is terrible but, assuming a 'start' of 1154, the Kingdom of Sicily could have a strong chance of uniting Italy.
Since Rome would probably still belong to the Pope, the capital might be Sicily's - Palermo. Just my 2 cents.
>>918526
>My knowledge of medieval Italy is terrible
It certainly is. Frederick, the Holy Roman Empire was already undertaking his Italian campaigns by this time. No way the Normans could have defeated both the HRE and various Northern Italians.
>>917535
I'm also very curious what German history would be like if it was unified in 1000 or 1500. Probably a similar and major competitor with France.
>>916210
Trade was very important to Italy. Especially in wine, spices and textiles. It's why the severe dampener on banking were ground down in Italy first too.
> What would happen if i unify those states
> It would be extremely powerful...
>>920034
>"Per te..."
>>918542
He is right. Frederick II is one of the fathers of Italy.
>>918218
A Gothic descended king reigning from Ravenna would be maybe functioning in a pre-Charlemagne Italy. As for language you would be likely to end up with a Latin-Gothic mix with Greek influences in the south.
