[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Home]
4chanarchives logo
From what I've seen and read, Oswald Mosley had pretty much
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.

You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

Thread replies: 86
Thread images: 31
File: image.jpg (63 KB, 415x553) Image search: [Google]
image.jpg
63 KB, 415x553
From what I've seen and read, Oswald Mosley had pretty much the same charisma and style as Hitler, politically. Wikipedia says that the British Union of Fascists were anti-Semites, and this makes me wonder if like the Nazis, the BUF was a racialist party which would've had Nazi-like eugenics if in power. Can anyone well-read on this chime in? Genuinely curious. Also curious how the BUF would've felt towards separated Ireland, and Britain's colonies. Ireland had quite good relations with Nazi Germany, especially since they were neutral, but it's hard to predict what could've happened.

Thoughts?
>>
>Nazi-like eugenics
What do you mean by this?
>>
>>908583
State sterilizations, the forced removal and killings of innocent "undesirables," promoting a superiority of race, lebensborn program, etc

What did you think he meant?
>>
>>908577
>Thoughts?
Beady
>>
>>908738
Wth is beady?
>>
File: fascist_dillbert.gif (76 KB, 598x283) Image search: [Google]
fascist_dillbert.gif
76 KB, 598x283
>>908634
Blatant lies.
Mosley was not an anti-semite, he made that very clear, and he was not a Nazi sympathizer.


You really can't trust the bias Wikipedia has against fascists.
>>
>>908634
At the time, eugenics was considered normal, and even necessary for the survival of society. It was in effect in nations such as Sweden and the US, and defended by people such as Churchill
>>
I always thought Mosley had no interest in racist ideology, only some of his supporters/members of the BUF. Was I wrong?
>>
>>909190
93. Do you believe in the racial theories of the German Nazi Movement ?
They are German and we are English, therefore our views and our methods on many subjects
will be different. In this particular we possess a great Empire comprising many different races.
They possess no such Empire, and their aim is a revived German race, geographically united. We
believe profoundly in our own British race which has created the Empire, but we know also it
would be bad for the Empire to stigmatise by law other races within it as inferior or outcast. We
have created that Empire without race mixture or pollution, by reason of the British social sense
and pride of race. That is an achievement unique in history, and we can trust the British genius in
this respect in the future as in the past. It should not be necessary to secure British racial purity
by act of law. It should only be necessary by education and propaganda to teach the British what
racial mixtures are bad. If a Briton understands that some action is bad for his race he will not do
it. With the British this is a matter for the teacher rather than the legislator, but if legislation was
ever necessary to preserve the race, Fascism would not hesitate to introduce it.
Fascism 100 questions asked and answered
t. Sir Fascist Brit
>>
>>909133
>he was not a Nazi sympathizer.
Yet the BUF uniforms and the BUF national anthem is an exact rendition of Horst-Wessel-Lied, and the BUF paraded around in the exact same style the Nazis did... I even simply google "British Union of Fascists Uniform" and up comes a picture of him marching down a street in wide-pleated pants whilst saluting to a crowd which salutes back with the exact same salute the Nazis are so renowned for.

I learned a fair deal about Mosley in a course I took last year, which was all about the history and ethics of European fascism in the 20s-40s, and I must say that you're just completely wrong. Nazi Germany even more than fascist Italy was used as a base model for the British fascists, hence why I asked if they too had racialist interests - something I didn't learn about when we covered Mosley and Britain.

Yeah. Definitely not a Nazi sympathizer.
>>
>>909181
That is true, yes, but not an answer I'm looking for, sorry. I mean more like... genocidal and extreme, ie Nazi Germany tier eugenics.
>>
>>909280
You're a fucking moron, Mosley based his uniforms off of the British officer uniform, he didn't parade in any special "NAZZGGI" way, did everything to keep those Fith columnist Nazi sympathizer shits out of his party, and the salute you're talking about is the ROMAN salute. Something in the US was called the FLAG salute. Not until after the war it was the NAZI salute.
Mosley was inspired by Mussolini. He wasn't an anti-semite and not a Nazi sympathizer. Get the fuck off my board.
>>
>>909208
>93
Was he a Thelamite too?
>>
File: wpid-britsh-flag-nazi-salute.jpg (56 KB, 634x370) Image search: [Google]
wpid-britsh-flag-nazi-salute.jpg
56 KB, 634x370
>>909280
LOOK AT THESE EVIL BRITISH NAZIS DOING THE NAZI SALUTE
>>
File: download (2).jpg (36 KB, 500x253) Image search: [Google]
download (2).jpg
36 KB, 500x253
>>909208
GOOD GOD THESE NAZI AMERICANS. HAILING THE FLAG LIKE HITLER
>>
>>909208
based
>>
>>908577

BEADY
>>
>>909057
Beady eyed anglo.

Its a /pol meme. Kind of like le eble jews maymays.
>>
>>909302
>Get the fuck off my board
How intimidating.
You're completely and unnecessary defensive of the British fascists, leading me to believe that you're one of those fat greasy neckbeards who wishes he was one of them. No need to give me some backhanded history of the salute, I know all of that.

>>909312
If you weren't a retard, you'd know that picture got heavily reprimanded and it caused quite a little shitstorm in the media. There's literally no such history of making a red-handed 'Ulster salute' - those guys in the pictures are fucking idiots, and you are enormously more of one for defending them.

>>909399
Like the Roman salute, it pre-dates fascism, and then in the 20s and 30s became completely associated with it. You're incredibly closed minded and childish. Enjoy typing in caps while you scream to yourself and become calories closer to your first heart attack you severely autistic fat cunt.
>>
>>909280
>I took a course

Well theres your problem. No shit a liberal college course will bend the truth to suit their perspective on the evil right wing.
>>
>>909434
There is nothing wrong with supporting the BUF, there is a problem supporting the Nazi sympathizers who took over the party.
Here let me take your post and fix it to fit you.
>You're completely uneducated and unnecessary assult of the British fascists, leads me to believe that you're one of those fat greasy feminists who wishes they could live in a free love society of equality. No need to give me some backhanded history of the salute, I know all of that.

Other than your other two pieces of garbage, during the 1920s and 30s the ROMAN salute was still perfectly acceptable, it wasn't until after the war was the Bellamy salute and the Roman salute stigmatized after the horrible reality of the war came to fruition.

Now take your garbage condescending rhetoric and analysis back to the "liberal" shit of a college that you took your "course" on.

Mosley was not a Nazi sympathizer, did not "copy" the Nazis, and was not an anti-semite
>>
>>909491
>proud fascist here
>nothing wrong with a good ol' heil now and again
>wait why are you calling me a nazi
>stop it guys
>guys there's a difference cut it out
>>
>>909536
I would support the BUF if I was born during the time period because they had the best solutions to the issues Britain was facing.
They would not be the proper party to support today, because fascism cannot address any of the global issues without being strong-armed internationally.
There was no problem with using the Roman salute during the 1920s-30s, and was not an explicitly "NAZI" expression.
It seems you're butthurt that someone holds a different opinion than you and that you have mischaracterized history to fit your world view.
I suggest you
Fuck.
Off.
Back.
To.
>>>/reddit/
>>
File: 112.jpg (446 KB, 1452x1036) Image search: [Google]
112.jpg
446 KB, 1452x1036
>>908577

The Anti-Semitism was not something Mosley himself strongly believed in, but something he was pressurized into adopting post-1936 when the British Union of Fascists became increasingly influenced by German Nazism and the remnants of the British Fascisti who became absorbed into the British Union of Fascists, empahsied in a brief name change to British Union of Fascists and National Socialists before settling with British Union until their ban in 1940.

The leader of the racialist fascist party in Britain Arnold Spencer Leese was known for his public denouncement of Mosley as a 'Kosher Fascist' leading the 'British Jewnion of Fascists' (I kid you not) due to Mosley's reluctance to bring Anti-Semitism into his own party, even when Anti-Semitism did grow in the party it was not biological or racialist in nature, but instead the concept that the Jews in Britain were loyal to their own group rather than the country as a whole, and held undue influence over the rest of society. Arnold Spencer Leese on the other hand was a blatant racist who saw the Jews as an alltogrther inferior race.

Eugenics was never a British Union of Fascists policy, the furthest Mosley went was for the calling of the British Empire to be an equal but separate domain in Tomorrow we Live (1938), connecting more to Mussolini's Cultural Nationalism, Mosley spoke that those who saw themselves as Britons and loyal to the British people should not be sent away if they are loyal and contributing, Mosley's policies revolved around the British Empire existing in policies that dated from his Labour day; the British Empire was to become a self-sufficient economic bloc of equals, no longer dependant on the import trade his Labour superiors of 1931 foolishly believed in, and most importantly so that Britain would only ever have to fight again in self defence, with Mosley writing in 1936 'Never again shall conscript armies leave these shores in foreign quarrel'
>>
>>909625

A few extracts from Fascism: 100 Questions Asked and Answered (1936):

>95. What is the Fascist attitude towards the Jews?

Jews must put the interests of Britain before those of Jewry, or be deported from Britain. This is not a principle of racial or religious persecution. Any well-governed nation must insist that its citizens owe allegiance to the nation, and not to co-racialists and co-religionists resident outside its borders or organised as a state within the State. The Jews, as a whole, have chosen to organise themselves as a nation within the Nation and to set their interests before those of Great Britain. They must, like everyone else, put "Britain First" or leave Britain.

>10. What is your attitude towards religion

We believe in complete religious toleration. The Fascist attitude is well summarised by the Christian precept " Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's." We are concerned with the business of the Nation, not with the business of religion. None of the great religions preach the subversion of the State, and therefore they have no conflict with Fascism

>82. What is your attitude towards Welsh and Scottish Nationalists?

Purely Welsh and Scottish questions should be settled on the spot by Welshmen and Scotsmen. To this extent we sympathise with Welsh and Scottish Nationalists, and wide powers would be delegated to implement this principle. We believe in national pride and tradition ; they should always be encouraged. Further, efficiency demands the speedy settlement of local questions by the man on the spot. But the splitting up of Great Britain into primitive anarchy we oppose. With reasonable protagonists of Welsh and Scottish Nationalism we would probably agree. With the extremists we should disagree very strongly. The reasonable settlement is unity in economic matters combined with every possible encouragement for the maintenance of national character, culture, and tradition.
>>
>>909625
>>909652
Good God, this board is really pressing you to post this every
Good goddamn day isn't it.
Good on you m8.
>>
>>909652

>93. Do you believe in the racial theories of the German Nazi Movement?

They are German and we are English, therefore our views and our methods on many subjects will be different. In this particular we possess a great Empire comprising many different races. They possess no such Empire, and their aim is a revived German race, geographically united. We believe profoundly in our own British race which has created the Empire, but we know also it would be bad for the Empire to stigmatise by law other races within it as inferior or outcast. We have created that Empire without race mixture or pollution, by reason of the British social sense and pride of race. That is an achievement unique in history, and we can trust the British genius in this respect in the future as in the past. It should not be necessary to secure British racial purity by act of law. It should only be necessary by education and propaganda to teach the British what racial mixtures are bad. If a Briton understands that some action is bad for his race he will not do it. With the British this is a matter for the teacher rather than the legislator, but if legislation was ever necessary to preserve the race, Fascism would not hesitate to introduce it.

>35. What is the difference between Fascism and Capitalism, since both admit the system of private enterprise?

In brief definition, Capitalism is the system by which capital uses the Nation for its own purposes. Fascism is the system by which the Nation uses capital for its own purposes. Private enterprise is permitted and encouraged so long as it coincides with the national interests. Private enterprise is not permitted when it conflicts with national interests. Under Fascism private enterprise may serve but not exploit. This is secured by the Corporative System, which lays down the limits within which industry may operate, and those limits are the welfare of the Nation.


>>909671

You gotta do what you gotta do
>>
File: 50.jpg (135 KB, 478x594) Image search: [Google]
50.jpg
135 KB, 478x594
>>909677
>>909625
>>909652

For anyone interested in reading more about Mosley himself, there are two books I'd highly recommend to start with, Robert Skidelsky's detailed and indepth biography of the man is a perfect place to start with, a narrative history of Mosley's life but chock full of facts of the era to give the reader the full picture of what was going on and the circumstances which Mosley forged his career, Skidelsky is also known for his biographies on John Maynard Keynes, who was in fact an early Mosley Supporter during his time in the Labour Party. My Life is Mosley's own biography of himself, full of reflections about his life and his history, and interesting read to see how the man himself perceived the events that defined his political career. Both books are out of print today, copies are usually redibly available on Ebay though harder to source outside the UK.

Robert Skidelsky (1975) Oswald Mosley
Oswald Mosley (1968) My Life

As for general reading material on the British Union of Fascists, the best source is party literature much of which is readily available today; thanks to reprints of the main works of Mosley written in the 1930s, available as pdfs online and in book form, if you're lucky you can snatch original copies on EBay for ~£100, books by other members of the party are harder to source, though Robert Edwards has made these easier to obtain replicas of online on his website (http://www.mosleyfacsimiles.com/), materials most recommended are:

Oswald Mosley (1932) The Greater Britain
Oswald Mosley (1936) Fascism: 100 Questions Asked & Answered
Anne Brock Griggs (1936) Women and Fascism
Alexander Raven Thomson (1938) The Coming Corporate State
Oswald Mosley (1938) Tomorrow We Live
Oswald Mosley (1940) The British Peace
>>
>>909450
>>909491
Actually I go to a quite conservative and essentially all-white very capitalist university, renowned for its wealthy students and conservativism, lol. Nice assumption - really helped your argument.

>>909560
>I would support the BUF if I was born during the time period because they had the best solutions to the issues Britain was facing.

>doesn't list the issues
>furthering his Nazi fantasies

Good night sweet Aryan prince.

>>909625
>>909652
>>909677
>>909755
Thanks so much for all these really great and informative answers. I tip my fedora at thee, sire.

Seriously thanks! Perfect answer.
>>
File: 1444703618387.png (410 KB, 406x536) Image search: [Google]
1444703618387.png
410 KB, 406x536
>>909560
>Fascism Ain't nazism. the tree of taxonomy gotta be litterd with the narcissism of small differences. adolf HITLER aka "The Fuhrer" is not my fuhrer.
>>
>>910185
I have no Nazi fantasies but nice projection. I repeatably said how I despised the 5th columnists who drove the party apart.
The only university I can think of that your mentioning is Hillsdale.
>>
>>910331
>I have no Nazi fantasies
>I love fascism

And no, I'm not some plebby American.
>>
Forgot to drop this in the thread in regards to OPs post, notice the publication too
>>
File: 1923MosleyPage1.jpg (362 KB, 738x1799) Image search: [Google]
1923MosleyPage1.jpg
362 KB, 738x1799
>>910405

Few other assorted items, Mosley successfully running as an Independent in 1923
>>
File: 1923MosleyPages2$263.jpg (698 KB, 1488x1798) Image search: [Google]
1923MosleyPages2$263.jpg
698 KB, 1488x1798
>>910415
>>
>>910346
>fascism is nazism
I sure fucking hope your uni is free because nobody should have to pay for such a low quality education
>>
File: 1923MosleyPages14$2615.jpg (674 KB, 1490x1792) Image search: [Google]
1923MosleyPages14$2615.jpg
674 KB, 1490x1792
>>910428
>>
>>910436
>low quality education
Well, it's one of the best in my country, which like my university, it mostly white and wealthy. Take a stab here fatso, I'm interested to see where you think I'm from.
>>
File: 21.jpg (45 KB, 374x449) Image search: [Google]
21.jpg
45 KB, 374x449
>>910449

and the most obscene image yet
>>
>>910453
I don't give a fuck. Fascism has multiple faces and could apply to a lot of governments. Whether your shitty teacher told you so or not is irrelevant.
>>
File: 1449762791972.jpg (46 KB, 468x343) Image search: [Google]
1449762791972.jpg
46 KB, 468x343
>>910449
>>
>>910564
He's probably some smug British cock that nobody likes and spends all his days farming for (yous)
>>
>>910564
Right, so as soon as I don't go to some slum-like US college you don't care any longer. And rag on the prof all you want. It won't make your insignificant peasant opinion any more correct, especially in comparison with his PhD. Also fyi the prof is an Oxford graduate (I just double checked on my university home page), so if you want to try to battle literally the best school in the entire world, certainly for the humanities, be my guest and continue to attempt to discredit him.

>>910721
I am not British, although perhaps a bit smug, and I only make threads like this one when I want genuine answers. Arguing with the likes of you too is quite entertaining albeit.
>>
>>908577
But what is his plan?
>>
>>912225
It doesn't matter what his plan is, what matters is who he is!
>>
>>912223
>what in the fucking fuck did you just say about me you little shit? I graduated top of the top college in the whole world and there is absolutely no difference between nazism and Fascism because I say so.
Yeah fuck off.
This is the last (you) you're getting.
>>
File: AreYouTryingToCheatMe.jpg (15 KB, 311x278) Image search: [Google]
AreYouTryingToCheatMe.jpg
15 KB, 311x278
>>909755

/his/ - neo nazi and fundamentalist christian indoctrination

Is there any middle ground between this and reddits autism?
>>
>>913014
Here you go child, here is your precious little (you).
He is literally just providing people with the proper books to read about Mosley. Fuck off
>>
>>913043

nobody gives a shit about mosley no matter how much you try
>>
File: 1450919276046.jpg (250 KB, 1002x1200) Image search: [Google]
1450919276046.jpg
250 KB, 1002x1200
>>913149
(you)
>>
>>912984
Since when did I say that there was no difference? Of course there is. I'd have to be a retard of your level intellect to know think they're distinguishable terminologies.

Nice to see that we got to a point in the debate where all you could do was purposefully misinterpret what I said to try and promote your own argument after I checked that the person who taught me on this subject went and graduated from the best university in the entire world.

Enjoy your blissful fascist fantasies, Adolf.
>>
File: MboVJ.gif (1 MB, 266x268) Image search: [Google]
MboVJ.gif
1 MB, 266x268
>>913149
>nobody gives a shit about mosley no matter how much you try
>thread on Mosley
>>
>>913629
Whatever John.
>>
>>913149
I'm surprised at how long he's been forcing the mosley meme
>>
File: swear_to_god.jpg (133 KB, 1710x840) Image search: [Google]
swear_to_god.jpg
133 KB, 1710x840
>>913679
You realize there are more than just a few people on this entire board right?
Mosley is a widely interesting character, and John the navy seal over there, being a big fat condescending faggot doesn't mean shit
>>
>>913839
Did you write a biography for Mosley? Is this you shilling for sales?
>>
File: ZNXstayontheseroads.gif (29 KB, 453x346) Image search: [Google]
ZNXstayontheseroads.gif
29 KB, 453x346
>>913850
I didn't even make that post.
I haven't ever read the biographies.
>>
>>913629
>>913679
>>913850
>this shameful samefaggotry
Remember when this board first started?

Now it's basically /b/
>>
I honestly can't think of a single reason Mosley wasn't based, apart from maybe being swayed too easily by the naziboos in his party. It's a shame he was literally voted the 'worst Briton of all time' and people generally just assume he was some kind of evil boogeyman. If you want a cheap laugh bring up the Mosley Memorandum to anyone who worships people like Atlee and Bevan, then watch them try to reconcile the fact that they got half their ideas from le evil fascist moustache man.
>>
>>914627
It wasn't THAT great. There were more obscure topics, that was about it.
>>
>>914650
>>910405
>>909625
>>909133

"Like Mosley's biographer Robert Skidelsky before her, Jan Dalley fell for the central post-war Mosley lie: that anti-semitism was confined to his proletarian followers. She repeated uncritically the Mosley version that William Joyce, a leading fascist who broadcast for Hitler during the war, inspired fascist anti-semitism, and that Mosley was "unwise" to let Joyce edit his newspaper. But it was Mosley, not Joyce, who said during the Abyssinian war: "Greater even than the stink of oil is the stink of the Jew." It was Mosley who talked of German Jews as "the sweepings of continental ghettos hired by Jewish financiers". The only difference is: Mosley was rich and well-born; Joyce was proletarian and poor. It was only after the second world war, when the Holocaust had so discredited anti-semitism that no politician could hope to benefit from it, that Mosley started to express well-bred distaste for his movement's wilder excesses, and to blame people like Joyce."

"Another bright light in this 1929 Parliament was Sir Oswald Mosley. He had a fatal flaw in his character, on overwhelming arrogance and an unshakable conviction that he was born to rule, drove him on to the criminal folly of donning a black shirt and surrounding himself with a band of bullyboys, and so becoming a pathetic imitation Hitler, doomed to political impotence for the rest of his life." (My Life With Nye (1980), Jennie Lee )

He also married a Nazi sympathizer, in Goebbels' house, with Hitler as one of the six guests attending. How is he not a Nazi sympathizer?
>>
>>914627
The Mosley spam is pestilent and I doubt those posts are by the same person.
>>
>>917012
Any of those quotes can be made up, source them directly
>>
>>913839
Is that pic meant to represent the israeli Samson option?
>>
>>910453
>read history and about fascism at the best university in the country
>can't distinguish fascism from nazism
I don't care for either but that's either a really shitty country or you're a really shitty student
>>
>>917339
First one is the historian Francis Beckett writing an article for the Guardian 16th August 2003 (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/aug/16/race.thefarright). The second is a quotation taken from the former politician Jennie Lee's biography My Life with Nye (1980).
>>
>>918419
That article doesn't even source where the quotes came from, so we can't take them at any value.
And your opinion on the Milton sisters is comiclel.

He wasn't a Nazi sympathizer, he wasn't an anti-semite, and he was not a "hitler imitator".
The better description is that he is a "rhetoric junkie".
>>
File: 1453241391295.jpg (52 KB, 916x592) Image search: [Google]
1453241391295.jpg
52 KB, 916x592
>>918078
No, just a pull on the Gadson flag.
>>
File: 91.jpg (126 KB, 721x569) Image search: [Google]
91.jpg
126 KB, 721x569
>>917012

I tend to disagree with Beckett's analysis of Mosley in this case, the anti-semitism in the British Union of Fascists was undoubtedly an effect of Joyce's growing clout in the British Union of Fascists. The second largest fascist party in Britain by the time of the dissolution of the British Fascisti (absorbed by the BUF in the fatal move that brought Joyce to the party due to his association with the Fascisti) was the Imperial Fascist League under Arnold Spencer Leese, an openly racist and antisemitic party. What's notable is how Leese denounced Mosley, he referred to him as a 'Kosher Fascist' from the 'British Jewnion of Fascists' (Dorril, 2006, P. 204) for his failure to adopt antisemitism as a key tenet of the British Union of Fascists. The New Party candidate for Stepney, Whitechapel and St. George's was the famed Jewish boxer Ted "Kid" Lewis (Skidelsky, 1975, P. 270) a occurrence which would have been highly unlikely if Mosley himself was an Anti-Semite, we also have men like Robert Forgan (a close personal friend of Mosley and former Labour MP) who left the British Union of Fascists when Antisemitism became a core concept of the British Union of Fascists, unsurprisingly denouncing the influence of Joyce in the party (Pugh, 2006, P. 221), if Mosley himself had been a dedicated antisemite I highly doubt their personal friendship would have survived. There's no doubt that Mosley himself espoused antisemitism after 1934 which itself was one of the killing blows to the British Union of Fascists surviving as a mainstream force which I barely could before, but it seems Mosley was not truly supportive of the ideal himself, even his attitudes towards it in his writings seem incredibly moderate compared to Joyce or Leese (Mosley, 1938, P. 57). contd....

Picture related; Mosley and Ted Lewis in Birmingham, 1931
>>
File: 127.jpg (49 KB, 564x512) Image search: [Google]
127.jpg
49 KB, 564x512
>>919371

There's no doubting that at times Mosley succumbed to pressure from his membership, one mistake Mosley himself recognised was the renaming of his party briefly to the 'British Union of Fascists AND National Socialists' (Edwards, 2014) following a suggestion from Joyce, even going as far to admit forming the New Party was a mistake he made. Saying Skidelsky and Dalley (two better authors than Beckett) just bought into a Mosley myth seems rather childish, and Beckett seems to ignore Mosley's own writings and testimony of friends leaving the party.

That's a little hypocritical coming from Lee though, considering that back in 1931 she was rather supportive of Mosley and his action in the Labour Party, disaapointingly refering to the Labour party's reaction to Mosley's manifesto as 'like a load of damp cement' (Skidelsky, 1975, P. 222), with her husband the famed Aneurin "Nye" Bevan being a a party of the group in the Labour party known as the 'Mosley group' by 1929 (Skidelsky, 1975, P. 221) so they clearly have their reasons to try and distance themselves from the man.

Cynthia is less defensible though for obvious reasons, I wouldn't say she was an outright Nazi loving traitor by any means, but she did express some level of support for Hitler in the early 1930s (not an uncommon sentiment), she is placed under more scrutiny than others due to having access to Hitler and the Nazi elite, but this was more down to her sister than Cynthia herself, Unity Mitford was a Nazi lover for sure (rumours persist that she was even Hitler's lover), attempting suicide when war broke out while in Bavaria and having unrivaled personal access to Adolf Hitler, so it is not too surprising that Mosley and Cynthia chose to marry at the residence of Goebbels with the famous Fuhrer (a man seen still relatively positively in 1936) in attendance, but too we can't judge the man on the views of his wife alone.
>>
>>919371
>>919373
good post
>>
so he was a shit fascist and a shit socialist
>>
File: mosley1.jpg (2 MB, 1540x2542) Image search: [Google]
mosley1.jpg
2 MB, 1540x2542
few poor quality scans of some less common photos out there
>>
File: mosley2.jpg (2 MB, 2497x1509) Image search: [Google]
mosley2.jpg
2 MB, 2497x1509
>>
File: mosley3.jpg (2 MB, 1570x2506) Image search: [Google]
mosley3.jpg
2 MB, 1570x2506
>>
File: mosley4.jpg (1 MB, 1295x2048) Image search: [Google]
mosley4.jpg
1 MB, 1295x2048
>>
>>913679
Im too interested in mosley.
Guy was interesting and probably had some good ideas.
Deal with it faget.
>>
File: mosley5.jpg (2 MB, 1558x2524) Image search: [Google]
mosley5.jpg
2 MB, 1558x2524
>>
File: mosley6.jpg (2 MB, 1735x2695) Image search: [Google]
mosley6.jpg
2 MB, 1735x2695
>>
File: mosley7.jpg (1 MB, 1962x1076) Image search: [Google]
mosley7.jpg
1 MB, 1962x1076
>>
File: mosley8.jpg (2 MB, 1585x2671) Image search: [Google]
mosley8.jpg
2 MB, 1585x2671
>>
File: mosley9.jpg (2 MB, 1660x2653) Image search: [Google]
mosley9.jpg
2 MB, 1660x2653
>>
>>918513
Whether Mosley was a genuine antisemite is a bit hazy I'll admit, also, by 'my opinion on the Milton sisters' I'm assuming you mean what I said about Diana Mitford being a Nazi sympathizer? If so then there a few facts that point pretty clearly to it. Firstly, Diana's sister Unity was a friend of Hitler's, which is how Diana met him in the first place. In the years 1935 and 36 Diana spent a lot of time around Hitler, Magda and Josef Goebbels and Albert Speer, at one point even approaching Hitler about the possibility of establishing a pro-Nazi radio station in Britain. And, like I said, her and Mosley married in Goebbels' Berlin home in 1936, Hitler giving them a framed photo of himself as a gift.

Mosley's personal connections with high-ranking Nazis as well as recent discoveries by Stephen Dorril that Hitler partly financed the BUF, the evidence coming from Goebbels' personal diaries and recently released MI5 files that show Mosley's lieutenants embezzling funds of about £100,000 in today's money.
>>
>>921815

what about the points raised here though

>>919371
>>919373

If anything Mosley's connections with Hitler and antisemitism both seem to be classic political opportunism, using antisemitism to absorb the smaller ideologically separate fascist parties in Britain (British Fascists, National Fascisti, etc), whilst also using his wife's status and her sister's connection to Hitler to be able to gain funds from the Third Reich, while privately dismissing much about Hitler
>>
>>921843
The points raised in those posts are very good ones, although it seems to me that Mosley was not concerned about whether support for his party came from violent antisemites, which, you could argue, is unethical if not antisemitic when the leader of a party allows its members to endanger a minority like that. He may not have been massively antisemitic but he allowed antisemitism to flourish under his leadership which is something he should be held accountable for. Perhaps it was political opportunism, but ultimately allowing the party to have antisemitism at its core did more to push people away than garner political support. Prior to that Mosley enjoyed more widespread support from both conservative and labour MPs. If his aim was to unite the very few British fascists then he succeeded, but if it was to gain more support then embracing antisemitism was the worst thing he could do.
>>
No matter what, we can say Mosley's two wives had very different political sympathies

>“Istanbul, 4th September, 1930

>“Dear Comrade Trotsky, I would like above all things to see you for a few moments. There is no good reason why you should see me as (1) I belong to the Labour Party in England who were so ridiculous and refused to allow you in, but also I belong to the ILP and we did our very best to make them change their minds, and (2) I am daughter of Lord Curzon who was Minister for Foreign Affairs in London when you were in Russia! On the other hand I am an ardent Socialist. I am a member of the House of Commons. I think less than nothing of the present Government. I have just finished reading your life which inspired me as no other book has done for ages. I am a great admirer of yours. These days when great men seem so very few and far between it would be a great privilege to meet one of the enduring figures of our age and I do hope with all my heart you will grant me that privilege. I need hardly say I come as a private person, not a journalist or anything but myself—I am on my way to Russia, I leave for Batum-Tiflis-Rostov-Kharkov and Moscow by boat Monday. I have come to Prinkipo this afternoon especially to try to see you, but if it were not convenient I could come out again any day till Monday. I do hope however you could allow me a few moments this afternoon. Yours fraternally, Cynthia Mosley.”
Thread replies: 86
Thread images: 31

banner
banner
[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Home]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content you can contact me at [email protected] with that post and thread number and it will be removed as soon as possible.
DMCA Content Takedown via dmca.com
All images are hosted on imgur.com, send takedown notices to them.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the content originated from them. If you need IP information for a Poster - you need to contact them. This website shows only archived content.