Are communists inherently evil?
the road to hell is paved with good intentions
though there were unambiguously a lot of really fucking evil commies
Yes, especially the one who shit up /his/
>invaded half of Europe
>completely shit up the economy of south Eastern Asia
>start countless wars in Europe and around the world over the last century
>45million+ Confirmed kills of innocents
>caused the rise of fascism
>implanted cancerous Marxist ideology into the western world
Nazis are better desu
>>901272
>caused the rise of fascism
Capitalism did that.
>seeking to end oppressive hierarchy
>evil
>>901342
>switching one repressive hierarchy with another
>not evil
Either end the state or stop pretending to cs]are about the working class
>>901342
>Killing Millions of people for being more succesful
>Not Evil
>>901374
I agree, state must be ended. That's why I refuse to acknowledge Marxist-Leninists as actual communists.
>>901383
Most wealth that the 1% has is inherited or was created conceptually, not manufactured via hard labor
>>901386
t. Bakunin
Wow another american bait thread
>>901400
kek
>>901400
>all those states either don't exist anymore, were state capitalist, or are straight-up capitalist now
>>901272
Not to mention that it ruined one of the few African countries with potential.
>>901422
Go to bed Ian Smith
>>901417
History is materialistic and moves according to praxis, and every future system begins with failures in practice, whether those failures are due mostly to internal or external conflicts. The point is: Marxists are at least moving, whereas anarchism can't because of its naive idealism.
>>901272
This is what they actually teach in American schools
>>901414
You do know not all anticommunists are Americans, right?
>>901443
Maybe anarchism would find a foothold if ML's weren't constantly repressing our movements
t. CNT
>>901434
Good try, but i'm talking about Ethiopia.
>>901450
Also t. Makhno
>>901444
>mfw my history teacher in high school was a borderline ancap who taught us that Hitler and Mussolini were socialists
>>901450
>Implying the councils weren't a state refusing to be called a state.
>Implying the militias weren't the coercion force of such state.
>>901129
Not at all.
Communism is, de facto, the most ethics mode of government and economics. In practice, the seizure of wealth and transition away from the dictatorship of the proletariat is unethical.
>>901465
Would mutualism be the most realistic form of socialism for society to adopt? I mean, it still has banking and a free market.
>>901272
Communism didn't kill the people who starved in Ukraine any more than capitalism killed the millions of Native Americans
>>901272
>caused the rise of fascism
And this is a bad thing?
>>901451
Ras sucked and the fact that he couldn't see his own countrymen turn against him because he wanted to "modernize" the country when he didn't even bother shaking up the feudal system makes him a real fucknugget
No, just naiive idealists.
>>901129
not to begin with
>>901450
Spanish Anarchism's in-fighting and disorganization are what allowed fascists to win, not to mention their failure late in the game to keep peasants on their side/switch them over. That the Marxist-Leninists tried their best to work with an infant ideology is not a blight on their record tbhl.
>>901458
He should have been fired.
>>901471
Not him but the idea of what is 'realistic' is a historically-rooted assumption. Look up the Overton Window.
>>901471
I'd say confederalism with a mutualist economy. The federal government ought to connect local cantons which represent themselves and decide what sorts of transactions should be allowed in their communities.
In the US, each state could exist as its own canton for the sake of efficiency. State governments would lose much of their power, allowing local councils and caucuses to determine their own governance.
We should also have a parliamentary system if possible. The president should be mostly a military and diplomatic leader.
>>901478
Fascism is essentially a worthless ideology because it's based on unsustainable conflict. No fascist society will ever be stable, due to internal and external threats rising dramatically.
>>901272
+1
>>invaded half of Europe
lmao
>>completely shit up the economy of south Eastern Asia
exactly lol, South Eastern Asia was the richest country in the world before communism came
>>start countless wars in Europe and around the world over the last century
I thought that was the USA.
>>45million+ Confirmed kills of innocents
Source: My ass. I'm surprised you didn't add deaths of old age to the death toll.
>>caused the rise of fascism
And the 2004 tsunami in the Indian Ocean
>>implanted cancerous Marxist ideology into the western world
Damn that freedom of ideas!
>>901511
So like a bigger, less muslimy version of Rojava essentially?
>mfw lefties
>>901530
You read that expression as smug? He looks like he's holding back tears.
>>901472
Tbh a better example would be the Britsh Indian Company or the Free Congo State
>>901519
>exactly lol, South Eastern Asia was the richest country in the world before communism came
India would have have the Biggest Economy in the world by now if it wasn't for Nehru
>>901535
He's asking the lefties for help because he knows once fascists take over "cuckservatives" will be targeted as well.
>>901549
>"cuckservatives"
Love this meme. Internet reactionaries' obsession with this 'cuck' thing is pretty fascinating in a Freudian way. The personal is political I guess.
![gove_1607050c[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0Cme0w1.jpg "gove_1607050c[1].jpg")
>>901535
Gove is love
Gove is life
>>901525
Yeah! I'd love an American-style Rojava, or a further democratized version of our current government.
>>901548
No. India was 2% of the world's GDP at the time of independence.
>>901554
For me it's fucking amazing how memes have went from being silly internet jokes to a legitimate form of propaganda. I don't think Trump would have gotten as big as he has if he wasn't so memetic, or his followers weren't spicy memesters. What this means for the future of the world is both fascinating and horrifying.
>>901554
I think it stems from either homosexual desire or feelings of sexual inadequacy. Certain people cannot express themselves without returning to the sexual dynamics they obsess over.
>>901573
It just goes to show that "Ironic shitposting is indistinguishable from real shitposting" is also true in real life. The kind of post-modern move of late capitalism has made sincerity tasteless and irony so utterly prevalent it's difficult to identify what level of irony you're working at in any given moment. I mean, for fuck's sake, Breitbart as a newsite is worth shit but one of their journalists gets assaulted by Trump's posse and her co-workers keep calling Trump 'daddy' - as a joke that is also close enough to be indistinguishable from reality.
>>901593
How long are people going to use the phrase 'late capitalism'? It's been late for nearly 70 years already
>>901593
We're living in David Foster Wallace's nightmare
>>901129
'yes'
>>901573
I disagree. The vast majority of Trump supporters aren't edgy young white kids, but instead aging rural voters. Trump's memes only serve to increase the loyalty of young followers, rather than gathering new ones.
>>901617
I read The Man In The High Castle recently and it got me thinking that these last few years might just be some mass delusion keeping us from true reality. It's just too damn absurd, man.
>>901608
>"Late capitalism" is a term used by neo-Marxists to refer to capitalism from about 1945 onwards, with the implication that it is a historically limited stage rather than an eternal feature of all future human society.
Besides, you could accuse the label of any historical period of being anachronistic. The Renaissance went on for about 200 years if you go with the traditional numbers.
>>901625
I mean, what are the criteria for us no longer being in 'late capitalism'? What sort of events or circumstances would result in people deciding 'late capitalism' was no longer a thing?
>>901638
The transition into a socialist society, for example.
Do you think capitalism will simply exist for the rest of human history?
>>901623
That's Phillip K Dick silly
>>901623
The TV show was such a piece of trash.
>>901659
I know, him mentioning DFW reminded me of Dick because dystopias and postmodernism.
>>901565
>owning 2% of the world's GDP at the time of your independence is a bad thing
>/his/ - History and Humanities
>>901669
Here's a hot take: India and Russia won WW2.
>>901657
What makes you think socialism will endure in popularity long enough to replace capitalism? It's not doing a very good job so far. Maybe Islam will dominate the world
Assuming Late Capitalism is replaced (either by socialism or what I consider more likely, an even more turbocharged version of capitalism) what will be the indicators that the change had been made? Taxes or government spending going above or below a certain threshold?
>>901129
no
>>901695
>Maybe Islam will dominate the world
Islam isn't an economic system.
>>901458>>901458
>Hitler
Debatable.
>Mussolini
Your teacher is a Jew
>>901736
Islamic finance is now included in most financial exams in accountancy, brokerage etc. Perfectly possible it could become the dominant financial model
>>901695
>>901796
Firstly, Islam and Capitalism are not mutually exclusive ideas.
You might be completely right that we go into a more turbocharged capitalism, but I don't think it's entirely fair to have me list specific indicators of a change which hasn't happened yet. I'm not a soothsayer, and nor was Marx.
>>901809
But if we're using the phrase 'Late Capitalism' we must have an idea of what LC is, certain parameters or practices which make our current situation LC. Or is it just a mememto mori sort of thing
>>901669
It's insane when you've got 15% of the world's population
>>901695
>what will be the indicators that the change had been made?
When capitalism/the global economy reaches the next stage in its evolution you won't be wondering what signs we should look out for, you'll be trying to come up with a cute name for the new paradigm..
Until something significant changes the current labels apply. I mean, that seems like common sense.
>>901840
indicators we are late into captialism's development:
most first world countries have developed industries
most countries in the world have adopted capitalism as their economic paradigm
most individuals accept capitalism as a fact of life
we have the technology to support a very large global market of production and distribution since the later 1900s, so consumption is no longer limited primarily by what a country can produce on its own.
if the beginning of capitalism is widespread industrialization, late capitalism should define the stage in which widespread industrialization is achieved in most countries. does this seem like a fair definition to you?
>>901608
>How long are people going to use the phrase 'late capitalism'?
When it stops being the phase of capitalism that is continuous of yet different from earlier phases. Don't be a sperg.
>>901129
An administration cannot be inherently evil unless it promote evil for the sake of evil.
The evil that comes out of an administration comes from it's technical inability to actually carry out it's goals the way it wishes to do so.
Communism could have work given the right circumstances and fascism could have worked as well, it's just that we weren't in the right situation and that the inability to seize and control power made them resort to dire solutions.
The best example is Mao Zedong political career, he failed really hard on multiple occasion causing millions of deaths, is idea could have worked but they didn't.
It's like surgery, it can work on some patients but not all and might end up being an unethical act if it fails.
>>902518
Except Mao's political career resulted in population boom, increased life expectancy and quality of life, increased production, distribution,a and efficiency, and an unprecedented lack of loss of life during a bad-though-routine famine, which was the last of its kind in China, so his administration did a pretty damn good, and ethical, job considering the errors made.
>>902540
Nah after he fucked up he had less power withing the government, his administration fixed his failing that his "Great" leap forward brought.
also
>increased production
"Under the Great Leap Forward, Mao and other party leaders ordered the implementation of a variety of unproven and unscientific new agricultural techniques by the new communes. Combined with the diversion of labour to steel production and infrastructure projects, these projects combined with cyclical natural disasters led to an approximately 15% drop in grain production in 1959 followed by a further 10% decline in 1960 and no recovery in 1961"
-straight outta wikipedia
>kill 30 millions peasant
>good administration
that's like 1/2 the population of France.
>>901549
They're screwed whether Communists or Fascists take over.
>>901465
nonsense.
liberalism, with its desire to limit coercion, is the most ethical form of government and economics.
>>901472
capitalism didn't kill millions of Native Americans. What the Spanish had wasn't capitalism. What the British had (at first) wasn't capitalism either.
The capitalists like the natives, they set up forts and posts to trade with them.
>>901129
I have too much spare time on me.
>>902585
Problem is, doing nothing to prevent exploitation just enables those who seek to exploit
Limiting the ability of people to harm others is good, even if it involves some coercion
im annoyed by my comrades who can't accept that capitalism was necessary before the industrial revolution.
>>901756
he looks like pepe
>>901129
Capitalists are inherently evil.
>be rich as fuck
>sees starving kid
>he_fucking_deserved_it.jpg
